Welcome to the MacNN Forums.

deej5871 · Feb 27, 2005, 05:21 PM

I have an iBook G3 800. A while ago it slowed to a halt, and the HD was making some bad noises. So I held the power button and went about restarting it. During the restart the HD still made those horrible noises, and (if I remember correctly) it got most of the way through the startup process, but it didn't completely start up.

Multiple things happened next and I can't really remember the order: I started up fine off of my OS9 partition sometime, but the drive was still making noise and I couldn't access my OSX partition. However, eventually it got bad enough that I couldn't use the OS9 partition either. I know that I attempted archive and installs maybe 2 or 3 times, all unsuccessfully. Then, after a lot of thought (because my backups were months old, but not too important because the main thing I'd lose would be music), I reformatted.

The first time I did it through the partition tab, which I knew would erase my drive anyway. That sort of worked: while partitioning my computer froze but when I restarted with the Panther install discs Disk Utility saw both partitions. So, I attempted an install on one of my new partitions. Didn't work. Got most of the way through the first install disk then said there were drive problems.

So, I went about completely rezeroing the drive, which took a loooong time. It got most of the way through, but I *think* that it froze up while it was on the stage right after it was done writing all the zeros.

After that, I either tried installing again because there may have been drive visible, and that didn't work so I erased again, or I think I just erased again (although not completely rezeroing again). Either way, I had a visible drive in disk utility at the end of this. So I tried one last time to install Panther on there, figuring I had nothing to lose. Somehow, it worked. I'm typing this from the iBook with Panther installed. However, the drive still acts slow sometimes and still makes some semi-harsh noises sometimes.

So, the question is, what do I do? Calling the local Apple Store (not really an Apple Store, but they are the only store in my area that is a Mac place at all) reveals that getting a new drive installed would be upwards of $300. So I figure I might as well buy a new Mac mini rather than try and get this fixed. But, the dilemma is that my iBook still works! I haven't gone about putting too much back on from my old backups yet, since I don't trust this drive to keep working at all, obviously. However, since it is somewhat working I really don't know what to do.

Afterthought: All throughout this process whenever I opened Disk Utility I ran Disk First Aid, and most times it came up with irrepairable problems, while other times it said it was okay. Also, I ran the Apple Hardware Test CD a couple times, and every time it said my HD was perfectly fine, along with everything else.

So, ideas?

pwrmacg4 · Feb 27, 2005, 05:57 PM

how old is your hard drive? After a while a replacement is a good idea if you want to continue using your computer.

deej5871 · Feb 27, 2005, 06:07 PM

Originally posted by pwrmacg4:
how old is your hard drive? After a while a replacement is a good idea if you want to continue using your computer.

I seem to remember buying it just a few months before the iBook G4 came out, so I think it was August 2003, making it about 1.5 years old. So, it's rather young.

Mojo · Feb 27, 2005, 06:39 PM

Check out this thread about the death of my G3 600MHZ iBook drive. It experienced similar problems before it quit altogether. But in my case there was no drive noise associated with its failure.

The two independent Apple-Certified techs I spoke with quoted me an approximate price of $180-$200 depending on the drive I select. Apple charges around $300. I selected a shop that serves a large university because the tech I spoke with took time to talk with me, appeared to be quite knowledgeable and they work on LOTS of iBooks. I figure that Practice Makes perfect, or as close to it as is humanly possible.

With a seven-day wait before the iBook actualy hits the work bench and 2nd-Day FedEx coming and going, I figure that it will be about two weeks before I get it back.

deej5871 · Feb 27, 2005, 06:58 PM

Originally posted by Mojo:
Check out this thread about the death of my G3 600MHZ iBook drive. It experienced similar problems before it quit altogether. But in my case there was no drive noise associated with its failure.

The two independent Apple-Certified techs I spoke with quoted me an approximate price of $180-$200 depending on the drive I select. Apple charges around $300. I selected a shop that serves a large university because the tech I spoke with took time to talk with me, appeared to be quite knowledgeable and they work on LOTS of iBooks. I figure that Practice Makes perfect, or as close to it as is humanly possible.

With a seven-day wait before the iBook actualy hits the work bench and 2nd-Day FedEx coming and going, I figure that it will be about two weeks before I get it back.

Hmm. You're right, my problem is remarkable similar to yours, however the important difference in my mind is that I'm currently using my computer

(even though there is that constant hum coming from the HD). I haven't tried to restart my computer lately though (I've had it either on or sleeping at all times). I wouldn't be at all surprised if it won't start should I try and restart it.

Oh, I forgot to mention that I actually installed Jaguar first off of the iBook install disks that came with this computer, however I created some totally dumb account info for that because I didn't think it would work. When it did, that's when I thought it'd be worth a try to install Panther. When I tried that, I think the drive wasn't there again, so I erased and that's when I got Panther installed.

Also, a couple times throughout the course of this I remember seeing in certain places that the problem was the drive wouldn't mount, but I can't remember when or where.

deej5871 · Feb 28, 2005, 11:07 PM

I just noticed today that Disk Utility now says that the S.M.A.R.T. status of my drive is Failing (and yes, it was in red). So I take it that means that this drive is dead for sure? No chance of it still being usable?

Oh well. I figured I'd be needing a new HD or computer anyway. This only confirms my suspicions.

ghporter · Mar 1, 2005, 08:24 AM

If SMART says the drive is failing, that means that you might possibly be able to recover some or all of the data on it, but it's certain that the drive will completely fail very soon.

SMART depends on low-level, hardware tests to diagnose a drive. I doubt that you can do anything reasonable (or at a reasonable cost) to restore the drive. It would not only be cheaper, it would be much easier to simply replace the drive.

Mojo · Mar 1, 2005, 04:44 PM

The drive is terminal; continue using at your own risk.

Drives do die, which is why I have always had at least one extra bootable internal or external drive that will allow me to run my Mac if the primary drive bites the dust.

If you are in the middle of a work or school project and you have another bootable system and your data backed-up, it's not a real big deal. You can get your work done and then deal with the dead drive when it is more convenient. Just backing-up data is insufficient if you are dependent on a single Mac.

Utilities that make system cloning a snap mean that switching to the backup system/drive will be no different than using the primary drive system. And with bootable Firewire drives available for less than $100, a second drive should be part of any computer purchase budget.

sminch · Mar 1, 2005, 05:20 PM

this seems like a good time to ask, then - what should i get and / do to make sure that i won't freak out should my hd top itself?

i'm new to macs so really don't know what the story is. can i boot off the disks included with my ibook? if i can do that, can i run apps that i also have on cd? i guess not as i only have the one internal drive. i guess an external hd is the answer?

mojo et al - enlighten a n00b, if you would be so kind...

sminch

deej5871 · Mar 1, 2005, 10:38 PM

Mojo, there's nothing for me to back up really.

Now, I've found a really nice 60GB hard drive on eBay for only $120! I'm pretty sure this HD would be compatible with my iBook because it's about the same as another that this guy was selling that explicitly said it was compatible with all iBooks; however I'd like to know if someone here could give me confirmation. And yes, I do realize it would be a real task to install this myself, but I know someone who might be able to do it for me, and if they don't feel up to it, I can always send it to a local Mac place.

MARINEOSX · Mar 1, 2005, 11:41 PM

I put an 80 gig in my iBook. Did it myself too. It really isn't that hard to do if you take your time. If you search my posts you will find links to how to do this. If a rep is going to charge you more for a particular hard drive then he is full of crap, they are all installed the same way. Just make sure it is an ATA 100 2.5" drive and you will be fine. If you install it your self you will still be covered on everything but the drive. As long as you don't physically break anything. I was told the same thing happens even if it is an apple certified person. This is from apple care that I received this info. Once you install it you will have to boot from the OS X install c.d. then select from the menu bar open disk utility. Once you open this it will pull up the drive you installed and let you select it. After you select it you will need to tell it to erase the hard drive. I like to write all zeros to it so that I know that everything has been touched. Format it as journaled HFS. The rest is for other things. after you do this you will need to restart it and then you can select a destination for OS X to be installed. Install it and then you are set to do what ever you want to the same as before but with more storage.

If you want pictures of how to do this let me know and I will set up a blog for you.

Mojo · Mar 2, 2005, 01:27 AM

Sminch, booting from the iBook CDs is only an option for installation and trouble-shooting purposes. You need a Firewire external drive if you want to be able to boot from it. The standard size is 3.5". The capacity of the drive is limited only by your needs and budget, up to a point, of course... An external drive makes backing-up quite easy and it is a handy place to keep big chunks of data such as your iTunes Music folder.

I got a Western Digital Caviar 250 MB drive for $80 at a Circuit City in-store special. Today I ordered a refurbished Combo Ion Enclosure for less than $60 including shipping. A smaller drive and Firewire-only enclosure could be had for $100 or less with a little shopping online. (I realize that things may be different in your neck of the woods; I'm writing this in the USA.)

You can install a separate bootable system from a system CD or clone your iBook system using CarbonCopy Cloner (free), SuperDuper! (around $20) or another cloning utility.

MARINEOSX · 01:46 AM

one problem with that though. If you are on a plane or do not have power for an external you are ****ed. You can get up too 100 gig internal laptop 2.5" HD. THE 60 GB 7200RPM is great if you like to play games. I have an external drive as well but it only stores my video stuff. And you can boot OS X from the cd if you want to, but you have to do that to format the drive I have done it 2 Times on my iBook and once on my iMac. Last weekend I put a 120 GB western digital 7200RPM drive in, and it took me all 20 min to install it and put it all back together. Then about an hour to format and reinstall everything including my Backups. Besides FireWire is not as fast as your internal drive. And you can't install OS X to it so some files you will not be able to save to it.

Also here is a link to all the model numbers and average prices for any brand of drive that will work in your iBook.

http://www.tigerdirect.com/applicati...asp?CatId=1277

Mojo · Mar 3, 2005, 11:43 AM

The discussion regarding the use of an external Firewire drive as an emergency bootable alternative is separate from installing a larger drive in an iBook. A larger internal drive won't be of any use if it is dead... If a person travels a lot they can choose a small, portable Firewire drive. If I'm not mistaken there are some small external drives that can be powered by the Firewire port.

MARINEOSX apparently states that OS X cannot be installed on a Firewire drive: "And you can't install OS X to it so some files you will not be able to save to it." OS X is indeed bootable on a Firewire drive, but not on USB drives.

Finally, speed isn't everything...Maybe the internal drive is faster than an external drive, but the difference won't be noticeable to the average person for the uses I am addressing: as a bootable emergency drive and for easy backing-up of data.

sminch · Mar 3, 2005, 12:32 PM

yoink! i was just eyeing up a usb external hd - didn't realise that this wouldn't be bootable. cheers for pointing that out mojo.

turns out that the american contingent is getting a much better deal on external hds than we are down here - the ones i've been looking at are seriously double the prices i've been seeing in the states, dammit. if i post my credit card details here will someone buy one for me and post it to me?

cheers!

sminch

Mojo · Mar 3, 2005, 01:01 PM

DON'T post your credit card information on a public forum such as this one!

I also wouldn't provide it to anyone you do not know. You could wind up spending a LOT more than the difference in price between a drive in the U.S. and your country...

sminch · Mar 3, 2005, 02:05 PM

we're all mac users, so surely i can trust these guys, right?

just kidding

sminch (who was kidding. honest.)

Mojo · Mar 3, 2005, 08:25 PM

I should have realized that you were kidding...

MARINEOSX · Mar 18, 2005, 10:07 PM

Can't really say anything for the firewire I Have never tried it but assuming that the USB connection does not do so, I figured better safe than sorry. That is great that a firewire connection is bootable I will have to get a firewire cable for my external now. One question though. If he put a brand new drive into his laptop any size or speed that he wanted it probably wouldn't be dead Back up the files on an external or DVD if he has the capabilities then put the new drive in. That would work so that he doesn't have to wait for his **** to get ****ed up. Why? Because it will already be fixed. I am sure it would be fun to be on a trip in a plane working on something, or playing a game and then you have to pull out an external, boot off of it because you thought you would wait until it died on you. But what ever you want to do. Besides his drive is already toast from what he wrote and Getting a new drive and putting it in himself would be much less than $300.00.

Mojo · Mar 18, 2005, 10:32 PM

First off, I was wrong when I stated that USB drives are not bootable. It may have been true when I first learned it, but it isn't any more: beginning with the Power Mac G4 (AGP Graphics) and the iMac (Slot-Loading), two new features to USB were support for USB audio devices and booting from USB drives. (More information at Apple.)

I personally would not wait for an internal drive to die before I replaced it. And if I was dependent on my portable Mac (for business and/or life management) and I traveled a lot I would carry one of those small bootable drives just in case. One partition of the external drive would be a clone of my portable Mac's primary volume. Booting from the external drive would be indistinguishable from the internal drive.

Of course, I can afford it and I'm all for redundancy, especially when it comes to computer hardware. For years I've felt that all computers should come with two internal drives as standard equipment.

MARINEOSX · Mar 18, 2005, 10:38 PM

That would be nice to have two internal drives. I also must say that it is great to know that USB is supported now. Thanks for the info.

deej5871 · Mar 19, 2005, 02:27 PM

I can't tell if you two are talking about sminch or me, but in case you are talking about me: I have been trying to get this fixed ASAP, but for various reasons I haven't been able to buy the new HD yet, and so I'm stuck with waiting until this dies.

And no, I'm not dependent on this laptop or anything. I use it for the most part as if it were a desktop.

Mojo · Mar 19, 2005, 03:47 PM

I wasn't referring to either of you; the discussion has gotten a little confused for some reason. The subject has become two subjects; replacing an internal drive and the utility of having a bootable external drive in case of an emergency.

I just got back my G3 iBook with a new 40GB drive and it appears to be working just fine. I knew from looking at the instructions that the drive replacement would take me lot more time than I was willing to spend on the project AND I might not get it back together anyway... In my case I can earn the labor charge in fewer hours and with less frustration than doing it myself would entail.

YMMV, of course!