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Darksider · Apr 27, 2005, 10:33 PM

I just bought the 15" pb with 64vram. Does 128 make a difference if I'm not going to be playing games? What about for video editing?

MrForgetable · Apr 27, 2005, 10:47 PM

if you video edit, there will probably be a difference, especially if you use dual monitors (32mb vs 64mb per monitor). even if you did play games it probably wouldn't make much a difference. i played halo at 1280x854, medium settings, and it only lagged in really, really, really heavy combat. i'm on a 1.33ghz with 256mb of RAM. i usually say if you can afford the 128mb, why not? but i didn't need it, so i went for the lesser 1.33ghz with the 64mb 9700, saved a bundle of cash, and it does everything i want it to and more.

SpaceMonkey · Apr 27, 2005, 11:39 PM

Yeah, it's actually probably more important for video and image editing. But it's all relative. People still did video editing when there were only 64 MB cards available, so even if you're talking about doing video editing professionally it's probably not a big deal.

gururafiki · Apr 28, 2005, 01:07 AM

It also helps the Snappy� factor in Tiger.

Simon · Apr 28, 2005, 03:34 AM

I think the real issue with the upgrade is that it's one of the few BTO options that can't be added later on. There are no workarounds or third-party upgrades. Sop, if you think you will ever need it, get it when you buy. However, if you're not sure you need it, chances are, you won't. OTOH, it's only $100...

Maflynn · Apr 28, 2005, 05:54 AM

Originally Posted by gururafiki

It also helps the Snappy� factor in Tiger.

How so? I thought Tiger would feel faster based upon the video card no by the amount of video memory?

Randman · Apr 28, 2005, 05:58 AM

I would think having enough ram is the key to the The Snappy Factor more than video memory.

Maflynn · Apr 28, 2005, 08:23 AM

Originally Posted by Randman

I would think having enough ram is the key to the The Snappy Factor more than video memory.

Right enough vs more then enough. While I don't know the equation, you need enough ram to hold the colors and pixels. The current crop of video cards clearly has enough memory to drive the current monitors. Having more memory for video cards doesn't buy you anyhting (for 2d) unless your trying to drive two monitors. 3d stuff like Doom, that's a whole different ball of wax.

I may be completely wrong here, but I'm just trying to use what little common sense I have and that common sense tells me that for video cards and 2d, memory is less of a deciding factor for performance.

Mike

urrl78 · Apr 28, 2005, 09:40 AM

Here's a little added info:

http://www.barefeats.com/pb12.html

gururafiki · Apr 28, 2005, 10:20 AM

Maybe it's just my imagination, but the extra VRAM helps just enough for me to notice that the GUI runs a little smoother.

sadpandas · Apr 28, 2005, 01:20 PM

i ordered it because it was something i couldn't add on later as Simon says.... get it? Simon says.... terrible, i know. I also use two montors doing photo editing as well as audio recording and mixing. Get it.

Simon · Apr 28, 2005, 02:31 PM

Originally Posted by sadpandas

i ordered it because it was something i couldn't add on later as Simon says.... get it? Simon says.... terrible, i know.

OMG. You have no idea how many times I've heard that joke in the past thirty years.

osxisfun · Apr 28, 2005, 02:54 PM

i actually did a BTO (and payed sales taxes) instead of going thru amazon just so i could get the vram. I may be landing a fat project and you know i am looking at the 30" like a dog to a tbone steak...

if i don't get it then its just nice to know its there and will up the resale value a little.

sadpandas · Apr 28, 2005, 06:40 PM

Simon, i couldn't help it... i love movies like naked gun and airplane and top secret.... sorry.

tkmd · Apr 28, 2005, 08:50 PM

In panther its not going to make a big deal - as the barefeats test had shown. But this will change dramitically in Tiger with QE2d. A recent article on Tiger at arstechnica (http://arstechnica.com/reviews/os/macosx-10.4.ars/14 ) did an awesome job at explaining this feature. Essentially, the more VRAM the larger the amount of cache for displaying (rendering) images.

So in panther 64MB is plenty (of course depending on number of monitors your're running) , tiger it will become a bottle neck assume the video card is the same between the machine and are supported.

osxisfun · Apr 28, 2005, 10:50 PM

Originally Posted by tkmd

In panther its not going to make a big deal - as the barefeats test had shown. But this will change dramitically in Tiger with QE2d. A recent article on Tiger at arstechnica (http://arstechnica.com/reviews/os/macosx-10.4.ars/14 ) did an awesome job at explaining this feature. Essentially, the more VRAM the larger the amount of cache for displaying (rendering) images.

So in panther 64MB is plenty (of course depending on number of monitors your're running) , tiger it will become a bottle neck assume the video card is the same between the machine and are supported.

nice. glad i sprung for the 128.

wuzup101 · Apr 29, 2005, 12:56 AM

^^^ Yeah me too! Really I just wanted the light up keyboard so I went for the 1.5 at the time... then I just figured it was only a couple of extra bucks on an already pricy machine...

Yeah I went from wanting a 12" iBook to a 15" powerbook that way

and my parents hate me...

Simon · Apr 29, 2005, 02:14 AM

Originally Posted by sadpandas

Simon, i couldn't help it... i love movies like naked gun and airplane and top secret.... sorry.

Don't worry, I've become used to it.

I liked Naked Gun too btw.

WayzataXC05 · Apr 29, 2005, 06:14 PM

Will 64vram run a 19 or 21 inch moniter? Or should I make the upgrade to 128. I won't be doing any video editing, and very little if any gaming.

Thankyou

Scooterboy · Apr 29, 2005, 06:54 PM

I'm hoping the next PowerBook revisions will sport GPU's with 256 MB VRAM. PCIe 16x ATi X800/850 256 MB VRAM even if we're still on G4 might be enough to get me to upgrade. That, and 1600 x 1200 displays.

osxisfun · Apr 29, 2005, 07:08 PM

Originally Posted by WayzataXC05

Will 64vram run a 19 or 21 inch moniter? Or should I make the upgrade to 128. I won't be doing any video editing, and very little if any gaming.

Thankyou

yes. 64 will be fine for most evey LCD except for...the 30"

the 128 will drive an apple 30" lcd

osxisfun · Apr 29, 2005, 07:09 PM

Originally Posted by Scooterboy

I'm hoping the next PowerBook revisions will sport GPU's with 256 MB VRAM. PCIe 16x ATi X800/850 256 MB VRAM even if we're still on G4 might be enough to get me to upgrade. That, and 1600 x 1200 displays.

whoah. that's a lot of vram. are mobile gpus shipping in the pc world with 256?

Dog Like Nature · Apr 29, 2005, 10:41 PM

Just to reiterate what others have said, Q2DE in Tiger (once switched on!) will use as much VRAM as you can throw at it.

Each window is currently (in Panther) stored in RAM, but Q2DE will store the windows as textures in VRAM. The VRAM will be virtualized with regular RAM being used when VRAM is exhausted. So, the more VRAM you have, the less time the system will spend shuffling window contents between RAM and VRAM, and the faster your UI will be.

John's ArsTechnica review is an excellent source of info (and diagrams!)

http://arstechnica.com/reviews/os/macosx-10.4.ars/14

wuzup101 · Apr 30, 2005, 02:34 AM

I can't wait to see PCI express and 256-512mb of vram also

hehe... I can still remember when i bought my first aftermarket PC video card... rage 128 I believe... and that wasn't that long ago!

Scooterboy · Apr 30, 2005, 11:19 AM

Originally Posted by osxisfun

whoah. that's a lot of vram. are mobile gpus shipping in the pc world with 256?

Yes, from Alienware for one. And Dell is shipping an Inspiron notebook with the Radeon 9800. Apple could use the ATi Mobility Radeon 9800 with 256 MB vram now as these are AGP GPU's. The 9800 could be in PowerBooks now, with a move to X800/850 on 16x PCIe for the next major revision. I read John Siracusa's Tiger review and am now convinced that the GPU and vram has become much more important for OS X 10.4 and up.

The next generation GPU's from ATi and nVidia are PCIe, and Apple needs to move the PowerMacs and PowerBooks up to PCIe even if it's 1 year after the PC market.

AnnandTech has a preview of the 6800GO which is shipping now in some PC notebooks as is the ATi X800.

osxisfun · Apr 30, 2005, 11:24 AM

mmmm.... then i can drive the new apple 60" lcd

Drakino · Apr 30, 2005, 04:07 PM

The problem with the Mobility Radeon 9800 is the heat it puts out, and same for the x800/6800go. Every PC laptop I have seen with them has a dedicated cooling solution just for the video card and an always on fan to keep it cool. The fans are variable speed, but never turn off. With Quartz 2D extreme coming and Core Image, I'm sure the fan noise would be noticible with one of these chips in a Powerbook.

The Mobility 9700 is about the best the Powerbook can have while maintaining the 1 inch thick very quiet aspect. Moving to PCIe won't help either, as only the x800 is faster then the 9700 Mobility.

Scooterboy · Apr 30, 2005, 05:26 PM

PCIe should help decrease the time it takes to shuttle data back and forth from vram to system ram. And is the PowerBook simply going to rely on older, cooler hardware just so it can maintain its current form factor? Isn't Apple working on advanced cooling concepts or the like? What about the pro users (filmakers watching HD dailies, etc) as pointed out earlier in this thread? There will be Centrino laptops in small form factor, using these cards on PCIe. I think Apple has something major up their sleeves for the next PowerBook (HD) rendition...which should include much faster FSB, much faster graphics bus (PCIe) and 256 MB vram dedicated to an advanced PCIe GPU. And there's only one CPU Apple can get that has a much faster FSB to compete against typical PC laptops with 800 MHz FSB.