[MBX]

I'm new here, hope this is the correct forum. Sorry for the long post/question.

I have a Titanium G4 500MHz, 512 MB RAM, OS 9.2.2. The graphics chip is the ATI Rage Mobility 128 on the motherboard. I can't load the ATI extensions...bootup hangs at the ATI extension. No combination or elimination of other extensions removes the problem. I've done a clean install, software restore, zap PRAM, reset CUDA, Open Firmware resets, etc. without help. The culprit, I think, is as follows:

Recently I wanted to check for driver updates for the ATI accelerator chip for my laptop. I went to the ATI Support website and searched under Rage Mobility and found an 2004 driver update. In the ReadMe file, it states the update is for Rage, Radeon and other ATI products, and the installer would determine which if any file would be installed based on the computer hardware present. What the ReadMe file DIDN'T say was that the update was for "Retail" ATI products and NOT OEM products (which mine was). The warning was in another file I found later after running the incorrect driver updater.

Since running the updater, I cannot load any ATI extensions including the 9.2.2 ATI extensions. When booting, whenever it's time to load the ATI extensions, it hangs. I checked with ATI Support, who gives very limited support to non-retail products, and the support person stated that running the wrong update installer would change the name(s) in the ATI chip firmwire and this would confused the computer when trying to load the ATI extensions. ATI offers no further support and referred me to Apple for the possibility of an ATI chipset firmware flash....which I've been unable to located anywhere on the Apple support website or internet.

Running Apple System Profiler and the Apple Hardware Test CD shows the correct chipset and no other hardware problems. A 3rd party profiler "TattleTech" oddly enough states the AGP bus is "disabled". I can connect an external monitor to the S-video out but of course without the ATI drivers, there is no 2D acceleration. Otherwise the computer works fine.

Question: does anyone know if an Apple ATI chipset firmware flasher exists? If not, is it possible to edit anything through Open Firmware?

Any suggestion or help would be much appreciated.

[ibook_steve]

Forget about looking for updates. Can your machine boot off of the OS 9 CD? If so, it doesn't make sense why you'd crash after a clean install. Can you boot with extensions off (holding shift key during boot)? If so, it may be some other extension that is giving you grief.

Steve

[MBX]

Steve, thanks for the response.

Yes, my machine boots off the OS 9 CD. But that System Folder doesn't have the full set of ATI extensions that provide 2D and 3D accleration. It's the full set that causes the hang. The OS 9 CD has a simple "ATI update driver" and an apparent generic display driver "Studio Display CD Override". The full set of ATI drivers have 2D, 3D, and other memory manager drivers that communicate with the AGP bus and system RAM.

I can boot with all extensions off, and I can boot with all extensions on except "ATI Resource Manager" without problems. As long as the "ATI Resource Manager" is disabled, the computer works fine except there is no 2D or 3D acceleration. During boot, with the "Resource Manager" disabled, the ATI "Graphics Accelerator" icon has a red "X" through it. I've turned off all extensions except the ATI extensions and it still hangs on boot with the ATI extensions. In that case there are no other extensions to create a conflict, infortunately. The computer will not load the ATI extensions with or without other extensions.

According to the support technician at ATI, the (incorrect) driver update that I used changed something (names) in the ATI graphics chip firmware. On other platforms such as Windows computers, apparently there exists "firmware flashers". The ATI techie suggested asking Apple for an "ATI chipset" firmware flash program that Apple must use when they build the computer.

I've scoured the Apple website and the Developers Connection website without success. Since the computer's out of warranty, my last resort, I guess, will be to call Apple and perhaps pay for technical support. Basically, according to the ATI techie, I screwed up the flash firmware in my on-board ATI chip by running the wrong driver-update and it's confusing the computer if I try to load ATI extensions. Unless Apple is willing to provide an original firmware flash to restore the proper firmware, I'm screwed.

I was hoping someone on the forum might have some suggestions. The firmware can also be edited through Open Firmware but I don't speak Forth. I've read forums where techies have created hacks through "OF" for various reasons, but I don't know anyone with that knowledge.

Anyway, thanks so much for the response. I will try playing around again with the extensions just the same.

Mike

[ibook_steve]

It might help to explain what you are trying to do because it really doesn't make sense why you are putting yourself through this for a 5 year old machine. All you should do is do a clean install and run Software Update. Don't expect to find any graphics drivers updates for this or firmware flashers. Running software does not do anything to the firmware unless you ran a boot ROM update from Apple. Even that wouldn't screw up your graphics chip unless somehow the flash failed and then you'd have no graphics. Are you saying that even with a clean install, the ATI Resource Manager is installed and causes your machine to crash during boot?

Steve

[MBX]

Steve,

Thanks for the reply.

I suppose you have a point about the 5 year old machine. :-) However, my PB works flawlessly otherwise and like many people, has all "my stuff" on it. What I use it for doesn't require the latest and greatest. Buying a new laptop not only will cost big bucks, but moving to OS X also won't be cheap either. I just thought it was worth a try.

Basically, I screwed up my ATI chip firmware by running an incorrect driver update I downloaded from the ATI Support website. The updater was for "retail" cards not a chipset on an Mac logic board. According to the ATI techie, apparently not only did the driver-update install the wrong extensions (which I easily swapped out to the originals), it also flashed the firmware (some call it BIOS or ROM Image) in the ATI Rage Mobility chip and altered the name of the chip. This change confuses the computer when it tries to load the ATI extension set during the boot process, so the computer hangs.

Since the wrong info is in the firmware of the ATI chip, my problem isn't software, it's hardware (well, actually, software within the hardware). Therefore, clean installs, system restores, and extension manipulation won't help. My software is fine. It's the ATI chip firmware that's wrong.

On the PC-side of the computing world, apparently this problem is easily handled through BIOS settings and widely available firmware flashers for the BIOS for graphics chips such as the ATI's.

When Apple manufactured my logic board, it had to program the firmware in the ATI chip it received from ATI to function with the PB hardware and software. That firmware flasher is apparently what I need to restore the original factory firmware in the ATI chip. Since they're widely available for PC's I thought they might be for Macs. Apparently not....which is all I'm trying to find out.

Although I screwed up, I'm also slightly cheap and would rather not pay Apple for support for something that may be available on the internet. You are most likely correct that such a thing is not normally available. My only hope is that Apple has this available through special (read: costly) channels.

Thanks for your time and response.

Mike

[ibook_steve]

As I stated, you did not flash the ATI chip. I worked for Apple for four years on Powerbooks. There is no flash utility that flashes the graphics chip because there is no flashable memory in a graphics chip. And I seriously doubt ATI had a flasher that could flash the boot ROM (synonomous to a BIOS) available to customers because only Apple builds those. Just try using the last Apple flash available for your machine and see if it fixes the problem:

http://docs.info.apple.com/article.html?artnum=75132

Steve

[MBX]

Originally Posted by ibook_steve

As I stated, you did not flash the ATI chip. I worked for Apple for four years on Powerbooks. There is no flash utility that flashes the graphics chip because there is no flashable memory in a graphics chip. And I seriously doubt ATI had a flasher that could flash the boot ROM (synonomous to a BIOS) available to customers because only Apple builds those. Just try using the last Apple flash available for your machine and see if it fixes the problem:

http://docs.info.apple.com/article.html?artnum=75132

Steve

Steve,

Again, thanks so much for your patience and knowledge. I will obviously defer to your familiarity with the PB. Prior to your posts, I was just going on what the techie at ATI Support was telling me. Clearly he must be unfamiliar with Apple products...which is no slam against him, ATI doesn't normally support its non-retail products and I think he was just trying to be helpful.

I checked the link you provided and I updated to that version of firmware a while ago. I would love to rerun the 4.1.8 version again, but as you know, when I try, I get the dialogue box telling me I'm up to date and the updater won't run then. Do you know a "work-around" to rerun the firmware update?

If I could refer you back to a previous question of yours: "Are you saying that even with a clean install, the ATI Resource Manager is installed and causes your machine to crash during boot?"

The answer is yes. I've done a clean install, I've erased my internal HD, re-initialized and installed from the OS 9 Install CD and did the subsequent software updates to OS 9.2.2. I've reset defaults, nvram, all in Open Firmware, reset PRAM, and PMU. I've even removed all power, including the internal backup battery and let the darn PB sit overnight and It still won't let me load the ATI Resource Manager. In the Extension Manager Description of that extension, it states that the "ATI Resource Manager manages video memory for ATI components."

I have run the Hardware Test CD that came with the PB and all tests pass. In the System Profiler, it shows that 8 MB of VRAM is available. I can attach an external monitor through the S-video out and I get both the extended desktop as well as mirroring. But without the ATI Resource Manager, I can't get 2D/3D acceleration.

Well, I consider myself lucky a knowledgeable person like you responded. I'd welcome any other suggestion.

Thanks for your time and attention.

Mike