[maCCer]

just concern about the rumor around about apple is switching to Inter.
As i am planning to buy a powerbook after WWDC; however, if that becomes true, do u guys think this is still a good time for buying powerbook or any other mac computer, althrough, the higher end model would make that switch around 2007?

[ccsccs7]

This does disturb me. 68K processors are obsolete. Back then, Fat binaries weren't so bad, but with todays application sizes, that may not be the best route to take.

Of course, it could just be the WiMAX thing like some others have mentioned.

[redheadfred]

I'm in the same situation, and I still haven't quite decided. I really doubt that anything major will come out soon, and I need a new laptop before September. So, I'm thinking it will end up with me buying the current G4 and not worrying about it. But that's just me...

[wuzup101]

I can tell you that I WILL be purchasing said Apple laptop when they drop an intel processor in it. Probably will be cheaper and faster to boot!

[Randman]

2007?

[ibook_steve]

Originally Posted by wuzup101

I can tell you that I WILL be purchasing said Apple laptop when they drop an intel processor in it. Probably will be cheaper and faster to boot!

Yes, and unless there is some fancy software trick we haven't heard of yet or some endian switching chip that Intel is working on that nobody knows about, none of your software, as well as anything on Versiontracker under Mac OS X will work...at all. And there is no guarantee it will be cheaper or faster. It might not be cheaper because it could be a custom chip as I mentioned above. And it may not be faster because some emulation engine might have to run under it. It will certainly be hotter given Intel's history. I for one pray that this is just a huge rumor. But whether or not it is true, I'll bet my stock is going to tank on Monday.

Steve

[maCCer]

Originally Posted by ibook_steve

Yes, and unless there is some fancy software trick we haven't heard of yet or some endian switching chip that Intel is working on that nobody knows about, none of your software, as well as anything on Versiontracker under Mac OS X will work...at all. And there is no guarantee it will be cheaper or faster. It might not be cheaper because it could be a custom chip as I mentioned above. And it may not be faster because some emulation engine might have to run under it. It will certainly be hotter given Intel's history. I for one pray that this is just a huge rumor. But whether or not it is true, I'll bet my stock is going to tank on Monday.

Steve

Agree

[zed57]

Originally Posted by ibook_steve

Yes, and unless there is some fancy software trick we haven't heard of yet or some endian switching chip that Intel is working on that nobody knows about, none of your software, as well as anything on Versiontracker under Mac OS X will work...at all. And there is no guarantee it will be cheaper or faster. It might not be cheaper because it could be a custom chip as I mentioned above. And it may not be faster because some emulation engine might have to run under it. It will certainly be hotter given Intel's history. I for one pray that this is just a huge rumor. But whether or not it is true, I'll bet my stock is going to tank on Monday.

Steve

Hotter? I would assume if this came to be that a centrino type processor would be used in the PowerBook's and i am under the impression that they are cooler running chips no?

[legacyb4]

Dunno about that. I've got a set of four Toshiba laptops at the office which, despite only being 1.8Ghz Centrino's, seem to pump out a lot more hot air than my PB does...

[Pierre B.]

Originally Posted by zed57

Hotter? I would assume if this came to be that a centrino type processor would be used in the PowerBook's and i am under the impression that they are cooler running chips no?

No. Let me post here too my message from the other thread:

There is a big misconception about the P-M. The P-M processor when runs in its nominal clock speed, it is hot as hell. Not like a P4, but a lot hotter than an G4. When I watch a DVD on my wife's P-M Dell, I don't put it on my lap because I find the heat unbearable (but not so with a Powerbook).

What the P-M has and the G4 has not, is that the P-M can change its operating clock speed almost continuously to really low levels. A 1.6 GHz P-M based laptop with little to no CPU load, will run at 600 MHz when plugged in and even as low as 90-100 MHz (I don't remember the exact number) when on battery. You do understand what does this means for battery and heat, when the processor is not stressed. But, again, this is not because the P-M is inherently cool (as for example the MPC7448 from Freescale which dissipates less than 10 W @ 1.4 GHz), but because it has the technology to dynamically scale its clock speed according to usage.

So, no, the P-M is not cooler. It is actually much hotter than a G4 when the processor is really used (even not at 100%). I tell you that, you cannot keep touching the bottom of my wife's laptop for more than a few seconds (in bare skin), if you let the processor operate at 1.6 GHz (its nominal speed) and, say, 40% CPU usage for around 30 min. Hence the problem when watching DVDs, and not only, that I mentioned before. And mind you, this is a really big laptop and it has room to be cooled. Actually I have seen P4-based laptops with substantially less volume (but they run like nuclear reactors).

Just don't believe what you hear. Try it for yourself to find out. The P-M, though a great CPU because of the dynamic scaling, is rather over-hyped and it may unpleasantly surprise you with its heat. High performance comes with a price and this is heat. Oh, there is also this capricious behaviour of the Centrino technology with the wireless networks.

[andrewgf]

Originally Posted by Pierre B.

No. Let me post here too my message from the other thread:

There is a big misconception about the P-M. The P-M processor when runs in its nominal clock speed, it is hot as hell. Not like a P4, but a lot hotter than an G4. When I watch a DVD on my wife's P-M Dell, I don't put it on my lap because I find the heat unbearable (but not so with a Powerbook).

What the P-M has and the G4 has not, is that the P-M can change its operating clock speed almost continuously to really low levels. A 1.6 GHz P-M based laptop with little to no CPU load, will run at 600 MHz when plugged in and even as low as 90-100 MHz (I don't remember the exact number) when on battery. You do understand what does this means for battery and heat, when the processor is not stressed. But, again, this is not because the P-M is inherently cool (as for example the MPC7448 from Freescale which dissipates less than 10 W @ 1.4 GHz), but because it has the technology to dynamically scale its clock speed according to usage.

So, no, the P-M is not cooler. It is actually much hotter than a G4 when the processor is really used (even not at 100%). I tell you that, you cannot keep touching the bottom of my wife's laptop for more than a few seconds (in bare skin), if you let the processor operate at 1.6 GHz (its nominal speed) and, say, 40% CPU usage for around 30 min. Hence the problem when watching DVDs, and not only, that I mentioned before. And mind you, this is a really big laptop and it has room to be cooled. Actually I have seen P4-based laptops with substantially less volume (but they run like nuclear reactors).

Just don't believe what you hear. Try it for yourself to find out. The P-M, though a great CPU because of the dynamic scaling, is rather over-hyped and it may unpleasantly surprise you with its heat. High performance comes with a price and this is heat. Oh, there is also this capricious behaviour of the Centrino technology with the wireless networks.

I agree on your technical points that the P-M scales itself based on load. However if your talking annecdotal evidence then my 700M doesn't run very hot at all. It ran hottest when I was editting some video but general use doesn't cause much heat generation at all (the internal fan hasn't kicked in at all). DVD viewing was the same. Vastly improved over the old Compaq laptop previously. Now that was a thigh burner.

Granted I don't have a Powerbook to compare. I do agree on the wireless being a little wonky. But I think thats more Windows rather then Centrino in and of itself. P-M and Centrino based laptops do deliver excellent battery life.

As a technical way forward what other options are there. I'm just as happy to see a G5 in a Powerbook but it wouldn't surprise me if the heat generation isn't similar.

I'd like to buy a Powerbook but I want to see better specs (especially screen resolution) and performance then the current crop. Especially when paying a premium.

[Cadilon]

I am in the same boat as the OP. I need a laptop to get me through the next three years of school. I was ready to purchase a new PB this afternoon, and I still might depending on the details Steve gives today.

The way I look at it, my new PB will be able to do the same things in three years as it does today. What is the alternative? Buy a PC? I would rather be stuck with an obsolete PB for the next three years as opposed to buying a PC. Will just have to wait and see the details before making a final decision.

[Bostic]

I'm looking down at my IBM T41 as I type this. The thought of an intel inside & a "Designed for Mac OS" sticker on the wrist rest of an Apple Powerbook... nightmare.

[shaiwon]

The dual-core Yonah processor in a Powerbook will be one sweet machine. I can't wait!

[maCCer]

After heard that announcement i do not know what i am going to do, buy a PB now, or wait for about 2 years, when the intel chip for mac come out?
BTW, if apple switch to intel, does that mean Pentium machine can run mac Os x as well?And windows program can run on mac as well??And the chip that intel would BUILD for apple is unique for apple computer OR just Ordinary one (i mean like PC uses P4 2.6G that)?

[osxisfun]

http://forums.macnn.com/89/macnn-lounge/259074/powerbook-2006-a/

I expect the Yonah powerbooks soon than later. I am thinking _before_ next june. (maybe may)

[wtmcgee]

I kind of see Jobs' promise of updates 'by' WWDC next year kind of like his promise of Tiger by the end of the first half of this year. It's a CYA type of thing - they're going to be trying their hardest to getting something announced at Macworld IMO, but I more realistically see something by mid spring.

[osxisfun]

Originally Posted by wtmcgee

I kind of see Jobs' promise of updates 'by' WWDC next year kind of like his promise of Tiger by the end of the first half of this year. It's a CYA type of thing - they're going to be trying their hardest to getting something announced at Macworld IMO, but I more realistically see something by mid spring.

agreed. I was not as brave as you to say it but if steve does not show a pentium powerbook at jan macworld he will by march.

[wtmcgee]

Only time will tell, but it seems as if most of the components are already out there, it's just a matter of apple getting things into the current PB or a new one, if that's the way they go.

[sieb]

My Centrino laptop had a 1.4 Pentium M and it never felt all that hot, no where near as hot as my 15" AL PB can get. It depends on how the laptop is built. It also felt more responsive than my Athlon 2.0Ghz at the time and my 1.2GHz PB. Pentium Ms are a supirior architecture to P4s or P4Ms, smaller, cooler, more efficient, and just as fast at half the clock rate. I would gladly trade up my PB for a Pentium M Powerbook. By the time it happens, Pentium Ms will be taking their place as a desktop chip (i.e. Intels new Mac Mini lookalike).

[jasong]

To answer the original question. I hope so, but Stever said 2006. I wouldn't expect one at least MacWorld in January, and more likely next WWDC. If you were going to buy one tomorrow, I would say you should still buy one tomorrow.

[wuzup101]

I know this has been mentioned in other threads... but it seems most likely that Intel will simply be making chips for apple like moto and IBM did. Intel just has a larger manufacturing buisness and can pump them out faster and push them higher? This would mean that the chip would still be a G5 based chip, just made by intel and not IBM.

[:XI:]

Originally Posted by wuzup101

I know this has been mentioned in other threads... but it seems most likely that Intel will simply be making chips for apple like moto and IBM did. Intel just has a larger manufacturing buisness and can pump them out faster and push them higher? This would mean that the chip would still be a G5 based chip, just made by intel and not IBM.

Hehehe.

Where've you been hiding?

[andrewgf]

Originally Posted by wuzup101

I know this has been mentioned in other threads... but it seems most likely that Intel will simply be making chips for apple like moto and IBM did. Intel just has a larger manufacturing buisness and can pump them out faster and push them higher? This would mean that the chip would still be a G5 based chip, just made by intel and not IBM.

I think they'll be making use of the Pentium chip. They've said that the new Mac Intel boxes can run Windows.

To have Intel build a PPC chip would be ignoring all of Intel's existing work and passing up the economies of scale in the x86 world.

The new Pentium Ms look very good based on Toms Hardware article on them. The dual core version with 64 bit extensions look pretty sweet. Can't wait to see what rolls out of the Apple factory next year.

[wuzup101]

LOL... forget I said that. You stray from the forums for a few hours and everything changes! Yes indeed, they will be using pentium-M chips (well future versions anyway) in the new powerbooks. Hehehe, I can't wait to see what they come up with either. I've always been a fan of the pentium-M, it's a very good mobile (and non mobile) processor. Just think, a powerbook that doesn't burn your lap and has 6 or 7 hrs of battery life. Oh yeah and games...

[SEkker]

This link discusses the Intel CPU roadmap. Looks like Apple is waiting to go dual-core for all of its mactel machines.

http://hardware.earthweb.com/chips/article.php/3487786

My big worry: the Yonah requires Intel to deliver chips in quantity using the 65 nm fabrication process. It'll be regular Pentium Ms until then.

[Link]

I'm just going to take an educated guess and say it'll be at least a year before the Intel powerbooks actually exist, but they'll be worth that wait.

Until then I'd still expect the 8641(D) based PBs, those should be able to exist between now and December, and a dualcore g4 might be the performance bump we need. Even if it isn't, the Intel stuff will be ready by June 2006 at the earliest.

[wuzup101]

Just think of what Apple will be able to do with a dual core pentium-M under the hood! These machines are going to be FAST and beautiful... and run OSX to boot... Apple just might have a chance in gaining some market share here (and losing too I guess if they screw it up).

[SEkker]

Take a look:

http://www.eweek.com/article2/0,1759,1823185,00.asp

120 notebook designs are already under development for early 2006 release. I think a Yonah-based mac pb would be a REAL powerful - and popular - laptop.

[Randman]

Originally Posted by Link

I'm just going to take an educated guess and say it'll be at least a year before the Intel powerbooks actually exist, but they'll be worth that wait.

What's educated about that guess?

Apple will want to get products out asap, maybe the end of the year. Laptops are hot items right now and the Intel mobile chips may be a little more polished. I think we'll see Yonah-based chips (single core in iBooks, dual core in PowerBooks) by the end of the year, early next year. Then maybe the Mac mini, eMac with the iMac and PowerMacs coming over last.

[osxisfun]

but intel said 2nd quater of 2006 for yonah. but i would be more than happy if they shipped earlier.

[nonhuman]

Originally Posted by ibook_steve

Yes, and unless there is some fancy software trick we haven't heard of yet or some endian switching chip that Intel is working on that nobody knows about, none of your software, as well as anything on Versiontracker under Mac OS X will work...at all.

Um, you mean like ...Rosetta?

[nonhuman]

Originally Posted by ccsccs7

This does disturb me. 68K processors are obsolete. Back then, Fat binaries weren't so bad, but with todays application sizes, that may not be the best route to take.

Of course, it could just be the WiMAX thing like some others have mentioned.

The vast majority of the application size nowadays is not taken up by the executable. It's mostly icons, images, GUI elements, plugins, and plist files. The executables themselves are relatively small, and that is the only part that will need to be doubled up in a universal binary.

[edit: Because I was curious I decided to check out Final Cut Pro. The application package for Final Cut Pro is 484.6 MB, however the executable itself is only 5 MB.]

[CatOne]

Originally Posted by nonhuman

The vast majority of the application size nowadays is not taken up by the executable. It's mostly icons, images, GUI elements, plugins, and plist files. The executables themselves are relatively small, and that is the only part that will need to be doubled up in a universal binary.

[edit: Because I was curious I decided to check out Final Cut Pro. The application package for Final Cut Pro is 484.6 MB, however the executable itself is only 5 MB.]

Thanks for doing the research... good to see there's someone on the boards who understands the differences between executables, resources, and knows OS X bundling

[nonhuman]

Originally Posted by CatOne

Thanks for doing the research... good to see there's someone on the boards who understands the differences between executables, resources, and knows OS X bundling

Who knew that degree in computer science would actually come in handy one day?

[Eug Wanker]

Originally Posted by SEkker

This link discusses the Intel CPU roadmap. Looks like Apple is waiting to go dual-core for all of its mactel machines.

http://hardware.earthweb.com/chips/article.php/3487786

Quite unlikely. The lower end hardware will be single-core. eg. iBook, eMac, Mac mini. Possibly even the iMac.

Originally Posted by Link

I'm just going to take an educated guess and say it'll be at least a year before the Intel powerbooks actually exist, but they'll be worth that wait.

Until then I'd still expect the 8641(D) based PBs, those should be able to exist between now and December, and a dualcore g4 might be the performance bump we need. Even if it isn't, the Intel stuff will be ready by June 2006 at the earliest.

There is no chance whatsoever we'll see a dual-core G4 in a PowerBook. We should see the single-core G4 7448 though.

[Simon]

To answer the original thread question: Spring 2006 (Yonah, a dual-core PM successor)

Here's the rest of Jon Stokes' educated guess.

[Dave Hagan]

We will see Intel PowerBooks probably announced at MacWorld San Fran in January 2006, and likely shipping shortly there after.

[SEkker]

One interesting point that has been floating -- Intel is used to calling the shots on release dates of products using its processors. I suspect the release of Yonah notebooks will be done with quite a bit of fanfare.

I'm going to watch the Intel pages to know the earliest date for the Apple products.

[phoenix78]

Hi all!

IMHO i think the apple PB will have boosted sales with intel chips especially if they can run windows! when you consider other wintel manufacturers the quality of their hardware is poor in comparison to apple ie) fan noise, lcd manufacture standard, casing etc... so the apple will simply be a choice for anyone who wants a machine that has a better user experience. like choosing a BMW over a toyota lol... (i dont hate toyotas btw just an e.g.)

i have had an acer TM 8600 which was acers top model laptop and it made loud fan noises (buzzing and high pitched) it got very hot under the palms and the lcd had poor viewing angles despite being sxga. It would have been a beautiful laptop to own make no mistake!! ( i do miss it sometimes) however these little bits of nuisance behavioral things make it hell to use. my pb 17" is bliss. it is silent and doesnt get hot under myhands and has a beautiful viewing angle and no dead pixels at all! and not to mention the glowing keyboard!! i wouldnt worry abot the heat dissipation of the intel procesors... heat can be diverted easily if a clever cooling systems is put in place... you might have the smae processor but apple and intel might work together to produce a different cooling mechanism to standard ones that are built for each processor. remember also that the Al box is also a heat sink lol. Apple will show its innovation i am sure... that is what makes Apple 'Apple'... not the processor... but the 'think different' attitude.

thts what i cant understand abouut some who get their knickers in a knot about being 'betrayed' by apple for going intel or having anything to do with microsoft... Apple will always be Apple not because of what is inside or what it runs but becase of the new and forward thinking way of doing things. lol...

current wintel users will be drawn to the apple just for these reasons and apple wil get a larger market share and they wil also have the possibility of two OS.

although..... apple probably will only ship the box with macOSX so anyone wanting windows only wil have to still pay for MacoSX and then buy a windows OS seperately which would be a pain... and also it would mean the death of 'virtual pc' lol (possibly).

my 2c worth lol.

cheers.
rob

[Link]

Originally Posted by phoenix78

although..... apple probably will only ship the box with macOSX so anyone wanting windows only wil have to still pay for MacoSX and then buy a windows OS seperately which would be a pain... and also it would mean the death of 'virtual pc' lol (possibly).

Yeah, who wants that crappy MAC/OS when you can run WINDOW'S ON MAC COMPUTER!

[chabig]

This is the beauty of the plan. If Apple can build hardware that the Windows users crave, it will put OS X into the hands of more people. Maybe some of them will even try it and like it...more switchers.