[Zubba]

So I recieved my THIRD powerbook replacement today. For any who remember, I purchased a new 15" PB from the Apple store online shorlty after they were released. The first one I recieved had a bad keyboard and USB port (and some bad pixels), the seocond one had a bad superdrive, and this one I'm currently on has a dim screen... yeah, the screen is dimmer then "normal", and the genius at my local (well, somewhat local) Apple store doesnt know why.

I don't know why Apple's service has gotten a bad rap, they have been nice to me, though they have required me to verify my problems by driving an hour to the closest Apple store to display them. I don't have a problem with Apple's service quality, I have a problem with their QC... it SUCKS!!! Ok, ok, I'm going to get flammed, I know... so let me clarify things I guess. IN MY EXPERIENCE Apple's QC is non existant.

I've basicaly come to the conclusion that it is highly probable that nearly every Powerbook shipped has some minor defect. I have friends with loose lids, with wobbly laptops, with bent lids, with latch problems, with trackpad issues, on top of my own experiences. What is the deal? Apple, you need to get your house in order... if Lenovo can make a solid product in China, you can too... get things together.

I'm done. Three strikes and Apple is out, for now anyway.

[mduell]

How can you blame Apple QC? Apple never sees your machine between the factory and your doorstep. They have no QC for products from the factory.

[Zubba]

I'm blaming the quality control at APPLE'S factory. Believe me, there is an entire office at the factory dedicated to QC issues, it's just that Apple doesnt set the bar high enough, apparently.

All I want is a defect free product; I've given Apple three chances to deliver one to me, and they can't do it... pathetic. I guess I'll wait for the Mactels to ship, maybe their arrival will see hardware quality improvements; part of me thinks all these hardware issues are because they are allocating resources to a new product line... who knows.

[ibook_steve]

I'd just say that you have some supremely bad luck. Despite what you say, QC at Apple is extremely important, but there are always machines that can escape. I think you've just had a run of those machines. As for your statement that QC might improve with the Mactels, anybody here will tell you that it is usually a bad idea to get one of the first of a new machine off the line. Chances are the initial machines will have many more problems initially than the current ones.

Steve

[mduell]

Originally Posted by Zubba

I'm blaming the quality control at APPLE'S factory. Believe me, there is an entire office at the factory dedicated to QC issues, it's just that Apple doesnt set the bar high enough, apparently.

There is no Apple factory. Apple may not even have any permanent employees at the Compal/Quanta/ASUSTeK/ECS/whoever-is-building-PowerBooks-today factory.

[mhuie]

Originally Posted by mduell

There is no Apple factory. Apple may not even have any permanent employees at the Compal/Quanta/ASUSTeK/ECS/whoever-is-building-PowerBooks-today factory.

And its Apple's responsibility to make sure that products they sell go out with no defects.

[DrunkenTech]

I agree with iBook_steve, that you've got the worst luck in the world.

I suggest you have someone buy your next car for you, drive it for a month, then "sell" it to you. That way, you'll know if the airbags will deploy spontaneously before you get your hands on it. No guarantees, just a suggestion

[Artful Dodger]

i'm on my third pb replacement too. apple's qc is weak at best. i've never experienced anything similar...its uncannny how many of my friends/colleagues have flawed systems. Like you said, at least the empoyees are nice enough to take the machine back...that's the saving grace.

[Zubba]

I don't think my luck is that bad, I think Apple's QC is that bad. Think about it for a moment... how many people on this forum have had at least one thing wrong with their PB out of the box; whether it be a loose lid, a bad latch, a warped case, a bent lid, a bad screen, a bad battery, etc... I bet if we made a poll at least 80% would experience at least one problem. Just because some people don't sweat the small things, doesnt mean that the problems don't exist. I hold Apple to a high standard, because APPLE suggests I hold the company to a high standard.

[ibook_steve]

Originally Posted by Zubba

I don't think my luck is that bad, I think Apple's QC is that bad. Think about it for a moment... how many people on this forum have had at least one thing wrong with their PB out of the box; whether it be a loose lid, a bad latch, a warped case, a bent lid, a bad screen, a bad battery, etc... I bet if we made a poll at least 80% would experience at least one problem. Just because some people don't sweat the small things, doesnt mean that the problems don't exist. I hold Apple to a high standard, because APPLE suggests I hold the company to a high standard.

No...I still think you've just had some bad luck.

The three problems you've had are with three separate subsystems: USB, Superdrive, and LCD. All three are made by three different vendors. When third parties are involved, there is always the possibility of test escapes, components that work fine during initial testing but fail later. I think this is what happened to you because a machine wouldn't leave the factory if it failed any test.

As for 80% not reporting problems, I would have to disagree. All you see on these boards are problems because that's what people report. People don't typically comment when their machine is perfect, as most are.

Relax. Your string of bad luck has to end soon and then you'll be happy with your new Powerbook.

Steve

[aristobrat]

PCMag.com's 18th Annual Reader Satisfaction Survey

Just 17 percent of Apple notebooks needed repair—second to Averatec's 14 percent—but this is still amazingly low considering that no one else is under 20 percent.

http://www.pcmag.com/article2/0,1895,1851295,00.asp


http://www.pcmag.com/image_popup/0,1...=112367,00.asp

(FWIW, 14000 people responded to this survey)

[mduell]

Originally Posted by aristobrat

PCMag.com's 18th Annual Reader Satisfaction Survey

http://www.pcmag.com/article2/0,1895,1851295,00.asp


http://www.pcmag.com/image_popup/0,1...=112367,00.asp

(FWIW, 14000 people responded to this survey)

Consumer Reports (much larger sample size) says:
Laptop repairs and serious problems
Sony 16.5%
IBM 16.5%
Toshiba 17%
Apple 17.5%
HP 18%
Dell 18.5%
Compaq 19%
Gateway 19.5%
Based on more than 49,000 laptop computers purchased between 2001 and 2005, according to responses to our 2005 Annual Questionnaire. Data were standardized to eliminate differences linked to age and use. Differences of 3 or more points are meaningful.

So they are all statistically indifferent from Apple. Not surprising, since everyone on the list uses the same crop of ~8 ODMs.

[aristobrat]

Hmmm, I'd be interested in seeing what just the 2004 or 2005's results were. You'd think that the ODMs would have made some improvements since 2001, 2002, and 2003.

[mduell]

Originally Posted by aristobrat

Hmmm, I'd be interested in seeing what just the 2004 or 2005's results were. You'd think that the ODMs would have made some improvements since 2001, 2002, and 2003.

The only improvements the ODMs have made in the last couple years are making the boxes cheaper.

[mrmister]

Wow--all those makers averaging around 20% or so tells me that the state of laptops continues to suck across the board.

[drmcnutt]

Yeah so 2 out of 10 people have problems with their purchase and that's acceptable? Wow, that's pretty crappy.

[Rob van dam]

Does anyone know the satisfaction rating with ASUS?Just curious since i believe asus builds and or designs the powerbook.Just wanted to see how there notebooks stack up to apple's.

[cambro]

Originally Posted by drmcnutt

Yeah so 2 out of 10 people have problems with their purchase and that's acceptable? Wow, that's pretty crappy.

1 out of 5!

Anyway, those numbers are quite surprising....It would be interesting to know how those numbers break down by problem type and severity. (Maybe I should RTFA).

[mduell]

Originally Posted by Rob van dam

Does anyone know the satisfaction rating with ASUS?Just curious since i believe asus builds and or designs the powerbook.Just wanted to see how there notebooks stack up to apple's.

Asus as an OEM is too small to be ranked. The surveys don't count all the boxes built by Asus as an ODM.

[iomatic]

Asus does not design the PowerBooks. Apple does.

1) It is Apple's responsibility to keeps defects contained.

2) This board is not representative of the entire manufactured line.

3) Sorry to hear the problems.

[npeterh]

During the weekend I visited the Applestore in Willow Bend:
Both 15 inches had seroious (really bad) lines showing up with the Crankycat image.

CompuUSA had one machine and it looked almost perfect, so faint were the lines.

MicroCenter, could not download Crankycat due to their firewall but a blue background looked good so I think it was ok on the lines BUT the battery was stone dead.
I tried removing and reinstalling but the machine still did not recognize it.

That leaves 1 out of 4 PBs that I would have actually bought! Not good stats...
Interestingly enough, nobody I talk to at the stores have ever heard about the line issues.
So nobody working with Apple products ever read these forums? Hm.... Dont think so.

Apple used to have very good QC I never had a machine in 15 years that was bad and I have had a bunch of them. Now though it does not look good for their QC.
Since Amazon has a good return policy I took the chance and ordered the PB 15 yesterday with 2 day delivery so I can check it during a long weekend.
I want to have the last PPC version since it has all the features I need.

Also, Since Daystar now is marketing a 1.92 upgrade to earlier PB it makes me wonder if Apple knowlingly kept the processor speed the same on the existing PB so that it would be a more substantial speed difference to the Intel PB once it comes out. I dont doubt that the roadmap for Intel is great and that we will get chips that makes OS X fly but I dont see the current Intel offerings running laps around the existing PB G4 in terms of performance and battery time. Looking at what HP, Sony and Dell are offering right now anything with a performance close to the PB has less than 2h of battery time.

Just my 2 cents. Hoping for the best with my new PB on Wednesday!

[SpaceMonkey]

Originally Posted by npeterh

Also, Since Daystar now is marketing a 1.92 upgrade to earlier PB it makes me wonder if Apple knowlingly kept the processor speed the same on the existing PB so that it would be a more substantial speed difference to the Intel PB once it comes out.

I suspect it has more to do with the yield that Freescale gets when they try to manufacture 1.92 GHz chips. If the current state of G4 manufacturing is like other chips, the 1.92 GHz chips and the 1.67 GHz chips probably come off of the same assembly line--it's just that because of the variables in manufacturing quality, the 1.67 GHz chips are the ones that don't meet the same tolerances as the 1.92 GHz chips, and so they are artificially downclocked to 1.67 GHz. At this point, I would imagine that Freescale cannot build enough 1.92 GHz chips to satisfy a major order from Apple. On the other hand, they probably can build enough to satisfy the much, much smaller order that would come from of an outfit like Daystar. And since Apple is moving the Powerbook to Intel chips in (probably) less than a year, there is little incentive for them to push Freescale in improving the manufacturing of 1.92 GHz G4 chips.

[Rob van dam]

Originally Posted by iomatic

Asus does not design the PowerBooks. Apple does.

1) It is Apple's responsibility to keeps defects contained.

2) This board is not representative of the entire manufactured line.

3) Sorry to hear the problems.

My mistake.But Asus builds the powerbooks dont they?I can understand with volume maufacturing a few more dud machines here and there.But i would like to know what sort of QC goes on at apple as opposed to a couple of years ago