[kilamanjaro]

Problem

Hello! Please forgive the length of this post - I thought and hoped it might be more useful to provide my Xbench test data up front and waste even less of your time than dribbling the data out.

Please Heeeeeelp! I've a 2 year old Alum G4 1.25 GHz, 768 MB Ram, 80GB Hard disk PowerBook running Tiger 10.4.2. Ever since I upgraded from Panther to Tiger I'm having the following experience: When I use (or try to) the PowerBook booted from itself (10.4.2) I get the beach ball between EVERY move - select a menu item <bounce>, try to move cursor in menu <bounce>, wait for application to open <bounce> etc. It's like trying to hurry through honey. When I reboot the PowerBook using my Apple iPod (10.4.2 installed), man! it's like the Panther days - fast, sleek, responsive - even though I'm using the same applications off the PowerBook hard disk with the same data stored on the PowerBook hard disk. Please HELP! I'm at my wits ends!

Background

I have 13GB of free space on partition 1 (Mac OS X) and 1.5 GB free on parttion 2 (named "Virtual PC" 'cause that's where I store my Virtual PC. I have NO startupitems, 1 icon on the desktop (having cleaned it up), seven icons in the dock. I have run disk utility and no problems. I have run Tech Tools every which way and no problems. I have run Disk Warrior and rebuilt the directory structures and no problems. I have wiped the disk down to its nubbins, done a disk sector check, and then partitioned the disk (with disk utility) and re-installed 10.4 and thence upgraded to 10.4.2.

I first upgraded to 10.4.3 but that was EVEN SLOWER (I later thought that might have been because Spotlight was 'ON'). I did an archive and install and eventually wiped the 'Previous System' (for disk space, just to make sure that wasn't an issue). I now boot and run with Spotlight off (no indexing at all) and all indexes scrubbed and deleted <used utility called 'Spotless>. I have also looked at the invisible files to ensure Spotlight is not 'secretly on and building stuff. It isn't.

I have also used (last few moves so far) MOX optimizer and Pacifist (separately!) to do a complete systems prebinding. I even found the solution for why nmbd keeps crazy calling Little Snitch trying to get out to all those strange destinations and fixed that. In desperation I installed 10.4.2 on my iPod and booted my PowerBook from there. WOW! It ran like a screaming Panther! I don't know what to make of this.

Xbench

Finally, I have run Xbench on my system in 2 different configurations. I booted the PowerBook from the iPod (both with 10.4.2 installed) and ran Xbench choosing, successively, the disks: iPod; MacOS X primary partition; and the second partition (called "Virtual PC"). I then rebooted the system without the iPod, i.e. standalone, and ran Xbench on the Mac OS X partition/disk and then on the "Virtual PC" partition/disk.

Below I've omitted all the other tests other than the CPU and Disk tests because the results, like the CPU tests below, were all pretty similar. HOWEVER I don't understand the meaning of the disk tests results. ANY insights/tips/help ANY light at all would be tremendously appreciated. I have re-organized the Xbench data so you can see the comparative results a little more clearly.

Note: My System has 2 partitions called "Mac OS X" (50Gb) and "Virtual PC"
System Info
Xbench Version 1.2
System Version 10.4.2 (8C46)
Physical RAM 768 MB
Model PowerBook5,2
Processor PowerPC G4 @ 1.25 GHz
L1 Cache 32K (instruction), 32K (data)
L2 Cache 512K @ 1.25 GHz
Bus Frequency 167 MHz
Video Card ATY,RV350M10

OVERALL SCORES

Apple iPod
Results 39.57 <overall results score>
Drive Type Apple iPod [40GB]
Disk Test 11.78

PowerBook Mac OS X disk [from iPod]
Results 41.48 <overall results score>
Drive Type HTS548080M9AT00 [Hitachi TravelStar 5400 rpm 80GB]
Disk Test 33.33

PowerBook Virtual PC disk [from iPod]
Results 2.29 <overall results score>
Drive Type HTS548080M9AT00 [Hitachi TravelStar 5400 rpm 80GB]
Disk Test 2.25

PowerBook Standalone Mac OS X disk
Results 8.67 <overall results score>
Drive Type HTS548080M9AT00 [Hitachi TravelStar 5400 rpm 80GB]
Disk Test 10.59

PowerBook Standalone "Virtual PC" disk [booted without using iPod]
Results 14.52 <overall results score>
Drive Type HTS548080M9AT00 [Hitachi TravelStar 5400 rpm 80GB]
Disk Test 8.61

CPU TESTS

CPU Test 48.97 - Apple iPod;
CPU Test 44.34 - Mac OS X from Apple iPod;
CPU Test 46.21 - Mac OS X Standalone boot -
>GCD Loop 72.06 3.80 Mops/sec - Apple iPod;
>GCD Loop 63.78 3.36 Mops/sec - MacOS X disk from Apple iPod;
>GCD Loop 90.77 4.78 Mops/sec - Mac OS X disk Standalone
/Floating Point Basic 34.83 827.50 Mflop/sec - Apple iPod;
/Floating Point Basic 28.28 671.85 Mflop/sec - Mac OS X disk from Apple iPod
/Floating Point Basic 28.75 683.00 Mflop/sec - Mac OS X disk standalone
>vecLib FFT 72.99 2.41 Gflop/sec - Apple iPod
>vecLib FFT 72.58 2.39 Gflop/sec - Mac OS X disk from Apple iPod
>vecLib FFT 71.65 2.36 Gflop/sec - Mac OS X disk standalone
/Floating Point Library 39.38 6.86 Mops/sec - Apple iPod
/Floating Point Library 39.40 6.86 Mops/sec - Mac OS X disk from Apple iPod
/Floating Point Library 37.33 6.50 Mops/secThread Test Mac OS X disk standalone

DISK TESTS

Apple iPod
Results 39.57 <overall results score>
Drive Type Apple iPod
Disk Test 11.78

Sequential 9.52
Uncached Write 4.22 2.59 MB/sec [4K blocks]
Uncached Write 29.69 16.80 MB/sec [256K blocks]
Uncached Read 8.43 2.47 MB/sec [4K blocks]
Uncached Read 32.85 16.51 MB/sec [256K blocks]
Random 15.43
Uncached Write 5.77 0.61 MB/sec [4K blocks]
Uncached Write 24.23 7.76 MB/sec [256K blocks]
Uncached Read 42.94 0.30 MB/sec [4K blocks]
Uncached Read 46.97 8.72 MB/sec [256K blocks]

PowerBook Mac OS X disk from Apple iPod
Results 41.48 <overall results score>
Drive Type HTS548080M9AT00
Disk Test 33.33

Sequential 64.68
Uncached Write 64.15 39.39 MB/sec [4K blocks]
Uncached Write 67.16 38.00 MB/sec [256K blocks]
Uncached Read 56.49 16.53 MB/sec [4K blocks]
Uncached Read 73.17 36.78 MB/sec [256K blocks]
Random 22.45
Uncached Write 7.52 0.80 MB/sec [4K blocks]
Uncached Write 58.19 18.63 MB/sec [256K blocks]
Uncached Read 59.68 0.42 MB/sec [4K blocks]
Uncached Read 88.80 16.48 MB/sec [256K blocks]

PowerBook "Virtual PC" disk from Apple iPod
Results 2.29 <overall results score>
Drive Type HTS548080M9AT00
Disk Test 2.25

Sequential 33.31
Uncached Write 32.95 20.23 MB/sec [4K blocks]
Uncached Write 27.93 15.80 MB/sec [256K blocks]
Uncached Read 33.38 9.77 MB/sec [4K blocks]
Uncached Read 41.73 20.97 MB/sec [256K blocks]
Random 1.17
Uncached Write 0.32 0.03 MB/sec [4K blocks]
Uncached Write 4.10 1.31 MB/sec [256K blocks]
Uncached Read 24.89 0.18 MB/sec [4K blocks]
Uncached Read 30.53 5.66 MB/sec [256K blocks]

PowerBook Standalone Mac OS X disk [booted without using iPod]
Results 17.22 <overall results score>
Drive Type HTS548080M9AT00
Disk Test 10.59
Sequential 41.64
Uncached Write 30.91 18.98 MB/sec [4K blocks]
Uncached Write 36.66 20.74 MB/sec [256K blocks]
Uncached Read 54.90 16.07 MB/sec [4K blocks]
Uncached Read 54.89 27.59 MB/sec [256K blocks]
Random 6.07
Uncached Write 1.83 0.19 MB/sec [4K blocks]
Uncached Write 16.44 5.26 MB/sec [256K blocks]
Uncached Read 39.06 0.28 MB/sec [4K blocks]
Uncached Read 37.43 6.95 MB/sec [256K blocks]

PowerBook Standalone "Virtual PC" disk [booted without using iPod]
Results 14.52 <overall results score>
Disk Test 8.61
Sequential 46.59
Uncached Write 72.05 44.24 MB/sec [4K blocks]
Uncached Write 28.99 16.40 MB/sec [256K blocks]
Uncached Read 52.80 15.45 MB/sec [4K blocks]
Uncached Read 53.96 27.12 MB/sec [256K blocks]
Random 4.74
Uncached Write 1.36 0.14 MB/sec [4K blocks]
Uncached Write 17.83 5.71 MB/sec [256K blocks]
Uncached Read 41.31 0.29 MB/sec [4K blocks]
Uncached Read 38.46 7.14 MB/sec [256K blocks]

[kilamanjaro]

Ooops, forgot to add to my post, 'Thanks in advance for any help!

[iomatic]

I don't ever use user-created partitions. KISS.

Have you tried a complete reinstall of the OS and apps.? Possibly a hard drive upgrade as well?

Having said that, our flat panel iMac which has a cloned system from an older drive, upgraded to 10.4.3, with a 2 1/2-year-old system, flies faster than the last .rev. (!)

[mduell]

What's the S.M.A.R.T. status say for Raw Error Read Rate (ID 01), Throughput Performance (ID 02), Seek Error Rate (ID 07), Seek Time Performance (ID 08)? Are any of the other values below 90?

[seanc]

Sounds like your hard drive might be on its way out.
When you get beachballs, are there any clunks or screeching noises?

Having had a server hard drive fail with screeching a clunking and an iBook hard drive still failing with cluncking and repetetive noises all the time, I am almost 99% sure that those are the sounds of a failing hard drive and those are what you need to keep an ear out for.

[tooki]

I'd try doing an archive-and-install of the OS. Better still, back up your data and reformat with zeros and then reinstall.

Oh, and DO NOT make a habit of running booted off the iPod. The hard disk in an iPod cannot handle the levels of usage that regular computer usage causes. The hard disk can overheat and burn out.

tooki

[seanc]

Oh, and DO NOT make a habit of running booted off the iPod. The hard disk in an iPod cannot handle the levels of usage that regular computer usage causes. The hard disk can overheat and burn out.

Is that because it's enclosed in the iPod? It's just a regular laptop hard disk isn't it?

[kilamanjaro]

Thanks Mark (MDUELL) for the question about the SMART status. Where or how can I get such detailed information about my drive? Disk Utility simply says "Verified"; Tech Tool says "Pass"; and I also installed SMARTReporter after reading your question but it simply says the drive is okay ('Green'). Ah! Just had an idea.....Got these stats: (Disk Controller test) for my G4's drive:

S.M.A.R.T. Self-Checks

Attribute Normal Worst Threshold Status

1 Read Raw Error Rate
93 93 62 Okay
2 Through Put Performance
100 100 40 Okay
3 Spin Up Time
144 144 33 Okay
4 Start/Stop Count
100 100 0 Okay
5 Reallocated Sectors
54 54 5 Okay
7 Seek Error Rate
100 100 67 Okay
8 Seek Time Performance
100 100 40 Okay
9 Power On Hours
93 93 0 Okay
10 Spin Retry Count
100 100 60 Okay
12 Power Cycle Count
100 100 0 Okay
191 G-Sense Error Rate
97 97 0 Okay
192 Power Off Retract Count
100 100 0 Okay
193 Load/Unload Cycle Count
90 90 0 Okay
194 Temperature
177 177 0 Okay
196 Reallocation Event Count
67 67 0 Okay
197 Current Pending Sector Count
100 100 0 Okay
198 Off-Line Scan Uncorrectable Sector Count
100 100 0 Okay
199 Ultra DMA CRC Error Count (Rate)
200 200 0 Okay

S.M.A.R.T. Self-Checks <Passed>

Hope this helps!!!

To: IOMATIC: Yep! I've done a complete reinstall of the OS twice and of the apps once (the second time). I have now noticed that each time the system beach balls there seems to be no activity from the drive for a moment then a whirring sound sometimes appears to accompany it audibly spinning. It's not a loud or scratchy, etc sound though it is noticeable. Appreciate your comments,

Best regards,

Kilamanjaro

[jamil5454]

Originally Posted by seanc

Is that because it's enclosed in the iPod? It's just a regular laptop hard disk isn't it?

No, it's smaller.

[kilamanjaro]

Re: Booting off the iPod - Yes, I've been very leery of booting from the iPod, having read of the meltdown's you referred to elsewhere. The iPod DOES run warm to hot so what I have been doing when I've absolutely had to use it is placing it on a thin handkerchief lying on an ice tray. It stay dry, gets verrrry cold and I hope will enjoy a long life!

(If not then a sad reason to save up for a video ipod [when the screen gets bigger I hope!] though I read somewhere that the new iPods can't be used as Mac boot disks for some reason - USB only connects perhaps, and if so, perhaps to be remedied with the new USB spec.??!)

Re: Getting a new drive, THIS one is a new drive!

Thanks for the comments so far,

Kilamanjaro

[mduell]

Originally Posted by seanc

Is that because it's enclosed in the iPod? It's just a regular laptop hard disk isn't it?

No, the iPods use 1.8" drives (instead of the 2.5" usually found in notebooks) and they're designed for relatively light usage (like reading 30MB every 30 minutes).

Originally Posted by kilamanjaro

Thanks Mark (MDUELL) for the question about the SMART status. Where or how can I get such detailed information about my drive? Disk Utility simply says "Verified"; Tech Tool says "Pass"; and I also installed SMARTReporter after reading your question but it simply says the drive is okay ('Green'). Ah! Just had an idea.....Got these stats: (Disk Controller test) for my G4's drive:

S.M.A.R.T. Self-Checks

Attribute Normal Worst Threshold Status

1 Read Raw Error Rate
93 93 62 Okay
5 Reallocated Sectors
54 54 5 Okay
196 Reallocation Event Count
67 67 0 Okay

What follows is a lot of semi-educated speculation becuase I'm not by any means a S.M.A.R.T. expert.
Read Raw Error Rate is slightly low, but that's probably just symptomatic of the following.
Reallocated Sectors is low. Hard drives start their life with a given amount of extra space, because inevitably some sectors on the disk will go bad over time. The drive will map the old, bad sector one of the extra sectors so the size of the disk doesn't change. The value starts at 100 and counts down to 0, becoming "critical" when it reaches 5% of the original extra sectors remaining.
Reallocation Event Count is also low. This just refers to the number of times that sectors have had to be reallocated (as above), and also starts at 100 and counts down to 0.

My guess is that your hard drive is slowly dying, but I can't say so conclusively. That would certainly explain the anemic performance.

[seanc]

How 'new' is this hard drive?

If it's a few days old then it may be because it's 'running itself in'.
I think theres something about for the first few restarts it'll run slow as it does something to calibrate itself.