Welcome to the MacNN Forums.

PyroKL · Dec 13, 2005, 03:05 PM

Ok, I have an aluminum G4 15" Powerbook that I ordered around march I think. Recently, I was using Excel in MS Office (OSX version of course) and while I was trying to multitask (loading some files onto a flash drive), the damned thing froze up on me. The mouse was moving, but icons were frozen in mid animation, a classic crash a la windows (damn lying mac fanboys). Caps Lock key wouldn't either. Thus, I waited a few minutes, and turned it off. Now comes the story of nightmares.

When I attempted to start it up again, it would go to the apple logo grey screen and the spinning wheel. It stayed like that for about 20 minutes, so I restarted again. No joke, it took about 2 hours to start. This has got me panicking, I thought maybe it was some disk drive check that occured because I didn't shut down OSX normally. I rebooted. I went to sleep. 8 hours later, it was still at the apple logo screen with that spinnign gear thing, NO JOKE. I restarted again. It works now, but on average, it takes about 20 minutes to get back the apple gear screen, and about another 5 minutes to get past the loading bar. When actually using OSX, it's very slow. I'll often get the spinning wheel mouse icon when doing things like opening a folder and such. I've tried things like resetting the PRAM and crap like that on apple's website. No help, this alum PoS might as well be an abacus. Oh yeah, on reboots, it still takes about 20 minutes to load up OSX.

This pisses me off to an extreme because unlike in a windows based PC, I HAVE NO FREAKING CLUE WTF IS THE PROBLEM. The slow down issues make it seem like something else is running in the background, but I have no way to verify this. Does anybody have any clue how to solve this issue? I have the 3 year appl care plan thing so I guess I'm covered, but I'd rather NOT lose my laptop for a week to repairs. I would really appreciate any help on this issue. Come on, this is OSX, but my OS is practically crippled now, this goes beyond any windows xp disaster I've ever had. I must be doing something wrong, please englighten me.

I'm not really bashing OSX, I'm just pissed because I decided to give OSX a try after hearing all these mac fanboys proclaim how superior it was. Powerbooks aren't cheap

seanc · Dec 13, 2005, 03:16 PM

BACK UP YOUR DATA - NOW!

It sounds like your hard drive is failing and WILL need replacing.
Check the S.M.A.R.T status in Disk Utility, if it says anything other than Verified you have a problem.
If it says Verified, then run the Apple Hardware Test to see if that brings up any errors.

I'm almost certain this is a hardware fault which in this case would be the hard drive.

Good Luck,

Sean

f1000 · Dec 13, 2005, 03:25 PM

Originally Posted by seanc

Check the S.M.A.R.T status in Disk Utility, if it says anything other than Verified you have a problem. If it says Verified, then run the Apple Hardware Test to see if that brings up any errors.

Just to add to this, backup your data first before attempting to do any sort of drive repair.

bearcatrp · Dec 13, 2005, 07:09 PM

First back up your files, run mac janitor (if you got it) or run the maintenance manually (daily, weekly and monthly). Then run disk utility (from cd) and check hard disk and verify permission. I went through something similar and had to reinstall the OS. I think your ms office app corrupted something. I never use anything from MS on my PB. Its still possible the hard drive is going bad but think its too early for that. Hope this helps.

mrmister · Dec 13, 2005, 07:30 PM

It is almost certainly a failing hard drive.

Chris Grande · Dec 13, 2005, 07:35 PM

Most certainly your hard drive is failing. Mine did the same thing, had a 3 day turn around with the replacement, thats with a over night trip to TX from CT and back again.

PyroKL · Dec 14, 2005, 12:01 AM

Awww hell, is that really the symptoms of a bad hd? I've never gone through one before, only time I know an hd is dead is when I build a PC and discover the damn thing won't boot. Argh, backing up all the media on my PB is gonna be a pain in the ass, im running out of place to back up to.

CanadaRAM · Dec 14, 2005, 02:56 AM

This would be an EXcellent time to invest in an external 200 Gb Firewire drive-- It'll be worth the time and aggo it will save you backing up, you can install OSX on it so you can boot the machine & possibly try some HD diagnostics on the internal or try additional file recovery, and then when you have the internal replaced, you can set up a regular backup routine so if you have trouble later (or drop or lose the machine) then you;ll be in far better shape.

madmanXwater · Dec 14, 2005, 09:23 AM

After you back up (just incase nobody else told you :-) ), I would try another two things. First I would boot with Command S into single mode and run /sbin/fsck -fy to check and repair the system files. Then type "reboot" and when back in OSx, go to Disk Utility and Repair Permissions on the drive.

Is the drive making any strange sounds?

Hope this helps,

Mike
Canada

PyroKL · Dec 14, 2005, 09:59 AM

I haven't noticed any strange noises. I have more than enough space on my desktop to back up anything important on my PB, it's just annoying because cross platforming networking is, in my expereince, slow as hell. I'm kinda letting my PB hang at the moment, end of the semester is coming and I'm swamped with final projects. My desktop is holding out atm, so that's where my priority is. Thanks for the help, I'll be sure to try all this stuff once I've got more time.

amazing · Dec 14, 2005, 10:33 AM

Some troubleshooting tips:

When you get a freeze, most likely you can still click on the desktop and get to the Finder. Then go up the blue Apple menu and force quit. Do NOT use the power button to turn the PB off because you'll most likely have startup problems. You can also use the option-command-escape key combination to bring up force quit.

If you do have startup problems, use "safe mode": Hold down the shift button immediately after the startup bong, continue holding it (3-5 minutes) as it runs through diagnostics and repairs until you get to the login window (which will have "safe boot" written in red.) Release shift key, login, then do an immediate restart since your networking and other things are disabled by safe boot.

Learn how to use "fsck -fy", see Apple's support KB. Short description, hold down command-s during startup until you see the scrolling white type on black screen. Type "fsck -fy" and hit return. If fixes are made, repeat fsck until it says OK. Type "reboot" and hit return.

I really don't think your HD is bad, you just had startup problems, which I've seen on a variety of desktops and laptops after using the power button to force-shutdown.

urrl78 · Dec 14, 2005, 02:19 PM

I think I read one guy disconnected from networking and his PB ran fine. It was a networking thing. Don't know if you are connected that way.

PyroKL · Dec 14, 2005, 09:27 PM

I've already rebooted into safe mode once (took freaking forever too). The fsck -fy thing didn't anything, still slow as hell. My current plan is to back up my crap once I have time, and then try some of the other stuff. If nothing helps, I'll reformat the hd and do a fresh install of OSX. If that doesn't solve the problem, off to apple care it goes.

f1000 · Dec 14, 2005, 10:20 PM

Forget about Disk Utility and go straight to DiskWarrior. Disk Utility can actually hinder DiskWarrior's ability to fix your directory. DiskWarrior will also give you a better diagnosis of your hard drive's S.M.A.R.T. status.

mduell · Dec 14, 2005, 10:56 PM

What are the actual S.M.A.R.T. attribute values?
I think SMARTReporter will let you see them.

siflippant · Dec 15, 2005, 04:20 AM

Originally Posted by PyroKL

the damned thing froze up on me. The mouse was moving, but icons were frozen in mid animation, a classic crash a la windows (damn lying mac fanboys).

Oh, really? Who lied? it wasn't the Mac OS...

threestain · Dec 15, 2005, 05:10 AM

Just ran smartreporter and found this -

Dec 15 11:04:52 AppleBook kernel[0]: jnl: flushing fs disk buffer returned 0xd
Dec 15 11:04:52 AppleBook kernel[0]: disk1s2: device is write locked.
Dec 15 11:04:52 AppleBook kernel[0]: jnl: do_jnl_io: strategy err 0xd
Dec 15 11:04:52 AppleBook kernel[0]: jnl: write_journal_header: error writing the journal header!
Dec 15 11:05:13 AppleBook kernel[0]: jnl: flushing fs disk buffer returned 0xd
Dec 15 11:05:13 AppleBook kernel[0]: disk1s2: device is write locked.
Dec 15 11:05:13 AppleBook kernel[0]: jnl: do_jnl_io: strategy err 0xd
Dec 15 11:05:13 AppleBook kernel[0]: jnl: write_journal_header: error writing the journal header!

Now I don't think this is a good thing, obviously! Plus it explains why I keep having to run diskwarrior to fix the space left.

PyroKL · Dec 17, 2005, 01:02 AM

Haha! This powerbook really got me good! I can't even back my crap up. If I attempt to transfer any file to my external hd, the transfer freezes, then about 10 minutes later it gives me an error about not being able to read it. Yay! Good job Hitachi! Or OSX, whoever's to blame. Well, I've backed up the important stuff like school work and such. But looks like I'm losing all my music and all the movies/videos that I've stockpiled on there. O well, I can always "reobtain" that stuff. Still, having 40 gigs of media wiped out on you is pretty harsh...

Btw, the HD is smart check verified, and the fschk didn't detect any errors. I haven't tried anything else yet, but once I'm positive I can't back any more crap up, I'm wiping the hd. This is great, the best moment of my life's expereince in the world of computers!

Pierre B. · Dec 17, 2005, 03:59 PM

Originally Posted by PyroKL

Haha! This powerbook really got me good! I can't even back my crap up. If I attempt to transfer any file to my external hd, the transfer freezes, then about 10 minutes later it gives me an error about not being able to read it. Yay! Good job Hitachi! Or OSX, whoever's to blame. Well, I've backed up the important stuff like school work and such. But looks like I'm losing all my music and all the movies/videos that I've stockpiled on there. O well, I can always "reobtain" that stuff. Still, having 40 gigs of media wiped out on you is pretty harsh...

Btw, the HD is smart check verified, and the fschk didn't detect any errors. I haven't tried anything else yet, but once I'm positive I can't back any more crap up, I'm wiping the hd. This is great, the best moment of my life's expereince in the world of computers!

Ouch, I am sorry to hear about such trouble from a HD.

PeterKG · Dec 17, 2005, 06:06 PM

Originally Posted by PyroKL

Haha! This powerbook really got me good! I can't even back my crap up. If I attempt to transfer any file to my external hd, the transfer freezes, then about 10 minutes later it gives me an error about not being able to read it. Yay! Good job Hitachi! Or OSX, whoever's to blame. Well, I've backed up the important stuff like school work and such. But looks like I'm losing all my music and all the movies/videos that I've stockpiled on there. O well, I can always "reobtain" that stuff. Still, having 40 gigs of media wiped out on you is pretty harsh...

Btw, the HD is smart check verified, and the fschk didn't detect any errors. I haven't tried anything else yet, but once I'm positive I can't back any more crap up, I'm wiping the hd. This is great, the best moment of my life's expereince in the world of computers!

Did you have any other FW items plugged in such as an iSight? That could have been the cause of your backup problems.

PeterKG · Dec 17, 2005, 06:06 PM

Double Post

PyroKL · Dec 17, 2005, 10:53 PM

Nope. I'm actually backing my files to my mp3 player via USB (iAudio X5, UMS compatible). It's the only device attatched to the Powerbook. The inconsistent transfers pretty much matches all the other symptoms on the PB. Basically any process that involves reading from the hard drive for an extensive period of time often freezes. I've actally been able to back up some of my stuff one file at a time. There's like a 1 in 4 change that the transfer will fail tho. Any transfer bigger than a gig is guaranteed to fail, and some files will always fail no matter how small. HD repair/checking tools still say nothing is wrong, and it still takes forever to boot. I've also noticed that there's a huge lag when using the hardware keys (volume control, screen brightness etc.) Also, when I change the screen birghtness or volume, the superimposed faint white display no longer shows up. I'll just hear the volume "pops" or the screen will just get dimmer or brighter.

Nai no Kami · Dec 17, 2005, 11:53 PM

Confirmed: you have a HDD failure. I experienced my first about a couple of months ago. I had all of the symptoms you described and, eventually, the disk wouldn't boot anymore. I could recover a lot of my data using a program called Data Rescue II. I had my drive removed and replaced and I connected it via USB to my Mac (I had an IDE to USB interface). You could eventually try Target Disk Mode. I almost forgot: you should blame Hitachi. I did.

PyroKL · Dec 18, 2005, 01:17 AM

Haha! What a coincidence. My HD won't boot anymore, it just gets stuck at loading screen with a blue background, and the spinning gear wheel thing. It's kinda weird cuz every time I've seen that spinning gear wheel thing, there's always been a GREY background.

Nai no Kami · Dec 18, 2005, 09:08 AM

If your PowerBook is under warranty, you will not get back the removed (damaged) disk, leaving your luck to recover your data to the dexterity (and patience) of the service team. If that's the case, you should try to backup your data at once (since you will be unable to do it later). If you have another Mac (or access to another Mac), load it with the Data Rescue II software (heh, I sound like a Data Rescue shareholder but this utility saved practically all my data even when the disk failed to mount); then, use a FireWire cable to connect the two machines and start up your PowerBook in Target Disk mode (holding "T" after hearing the startup chime). On the healthy Mac, launch Data Rescue II and perform a Catalog Scan (since probably the mechanisms of the disk are damaged, the catalog may be still in shape enough to provide data for recovery... and it is a much faster process).

If your PowerBook is not under warranty, make sure you get the disk back, and you may use an IDE to USB interface to hook it up to your serviced PowerBook.

amazing · Dec 18, 2005, 02:57 PM

Originally Posted by PyroKL

Haha! What a coincidence. My HD won't boot anymore, it just gets stuck at loading screen with a blue background, and the spinning gear wheel thing. It's kinda weird cuz every time I've seen that spinning gear wheel thing, there's always been a GREY background.

PyroKL: This doesn't necessarily mean that you've got a bad HD--you should try doing a "safe boot" which involves holding down the shift key during startup until you get to the login screen ("safe boot" written in red.) If this login works and if you can do a subsequent restart, then you could be just fine (or you may prefer to do an "archive and install."

HDs do go bad, but you do want to try some troubleshooting before jumping to that conclusion.