[dmo]

ok... does anyone think there is going to be a new powerbook at t his expo or what? I need to get one like now and I don't know if I should go ahead or just wait. Thanks, you are all wonderful.

[madmanXwater]

Nobody knows, but there is a lot of speculation if you check the threads. Unless you are going to die, I would say you would be wise to wait the four days until the show. I'm also ready for a new Mac but won't buy until after Tuesday.

Mike

[_kevin]

This is just further speculation, but MacRumors's latest post suggests that the only two Mactel models to be announced at MWSF are the iBook and the Mini.

[zanyterp]

i concur with madmanXwater. i am hoping for new powerbooks...but i am not sure what i expect to happen. whatever it is, i am guessing it will be a show-stopper (jobs doesn't really know how to do otherwise). 8)

[Troll]

I don't understand what logic people are using when they say that there will be new iBooks but no new PowerBooks. The iBook and the PowerBook are currently so close in the performance stakes. An improvement of a few percent on the iBook's performance, would result in the embarassing situation of Apple selling a "consumer product" that is more powerful than their professional product. Assuming Apple doesn't want that embarassment, what are their options:

1) Cripple the Intel iBook's performance. This would be a disastrous move for Apple. When the Intel Macs come out, everyone will be asking whether Jobs did the right thing in changing platforms and they'll be answering that question by comparing performance of the Intels vs the PPCs. If the Intel chip in an iBook isn't a significant improvement, people will think the whole move was a mistake.

2) Cripple the Intel iBook's features. I can't really see that this would save the PowerBook line. What could they take off the PowerBook that would make people stick with it over a more powerful iBook?

3) Release new PowerBooks at the same time. I think this is the more likely scenario. They might have figured out a way to drop a G5 into the PowerBook by now which would tide it over until Intel has something else to offer. If they did that, then they could replace the entire PowerBook line. If they don't have a G5 ready, then I think they will continue to produce some Alubooks for a while. Why? Because there aren't Intel versions of the software that professional users like musicians, filmmakers, graphic designers and scientists are using.

My prediction is that when they release Intel iBooks, they will also release at least one new Intel-powered PowerBook; probably one to replace the current 12". There might also be a 15" but I'd think that would be offered fpr a while alongside a PPC 15" and the PPC 17".

[euphras]

It would make sense that the new processors are introduced within the consumers products. Remember the introduction of the PPC line in 1994? The first machine was the low budget 6100 PPC, the "pro" machines followed later.

[madmanXwater]

Bottom line.... wait until Tuesday if you can!! One thing though, Apple may "announce" a new product but often they are not available for some time. That could be a problem for you as well.

Unless something magic happens, I'm going to stick with my current 17" PowerBook G4 1.33 and purchase a Dual G5 PowerMac for the more demanding work at home. I just got a Quad G5 for my studio and it is fantastic!

Mike

[slugslugslug]

Originally Posted by euphras

It would make sense that the new processors are introduced within the consumers products. Remember the introduction of the PPC line in 1994? The first machine was the low budget 6100 PPC, the "pro" machines followed later.

bzzzt. The first PPC Macs were the Power Mac 6100, 7100, and 8100, introduced at the same time. They were pro machines at the time. The 6100 and 7100, you could maybe call "budget pro" or prosumer, but Apple's consumer line at the time was Performa, which didn't get a PPC for another ~8 mos.

At any rate, I agree that for this switch it'd make sense to do consumer products first, since iLife is surely already ported, but Adobe and Microsoft will probably lag another 6-12 mos.

I'm still hoping for Intel iBooks plus one (little) Intel PB. But it'd be cool if the iBook's new design were so slick that they could effectively sell it to folks who'd otherwise buy the 12" (13.3") PowerBook.

[Fusion]

Originally Posted by Troll

I don't understand what logic people are using when they say that there will be new iBooks but no new PowerBooks. The iBook and the PowerBook are currently so close in the performance stakes. An improvement of a few percent on the iBook's performance, would result in the embarassing situation of Apple selling a "consumer product" that is more powerful than their professional product. Assuming Apple doesn't want that embarassment, what are their options:

1) Cripple the Intel iBook's performance. This would be a disastrous move for Apple. When the Intel Macs come out, everyone will be asking whether Jobs did the right thing in changing platforms and they'll be answering that question by comparing performance of the Intels vs the PPCs. If the Intel chip in an iBook isn't a significant improvement, people will think the whole move was a mistake.

2) Cripple the Intel iBook's features. I can't really see that this would save the PowerBook line. What could they take off the PowerBook that would make people stick with it over a more powerful iBook?

3) Release new PowerBooks at the same time. I think this is the more likely scenario. They might have figured out a way to drop a G5 into the PowerBook by now which would tide it over until Intel has something else to offer. If they did that, then they could replace the entire PowerBook line. If they don't have a G5 ready, then I think they will continue to produce some Alubooks for a while. Why? Because there aren't Intel versions of the software that professional users like musicians, filmmakers, graphic designers and scientists are using.

My prediction is that when they release Intel iBooks, they will also release at least one new Intel-powered PowerBook; probably one to replace the current 12". There might also be a 15" but I'd think that would be offered fpr a while alongside a PPC 15" and the PPC 17".

The logic they are using is that Steve Jobs said specifically himself that the consumer lines would be updated before the pro lines. Sounds pretty simple to me.

[slugslugslug]

Originally Posted by Fusion

The logic they are using is that Steve Jobs said specifically himself that the consumer lines would be updated before the pro lines. Sounds pretty simple to me.

When? He didn't say it in the WWDC '05 keynote (I just watched it again). He just said that there'd be Intel Macs shipping by next June.

Was there some other interview or article that I missed?

[demibob]

Originally Posted by Fusion

The logic they are using is that Steve Jobs said specifically himself that the consumer lines would be updated before the pro lines. Sounds pretty simple to me.

he also said he wouldnt make a ipod that played video just before releasing one
he has a history of trying to throw people off track about what hes up to

[wtmcgee]

It is certainly possible that we'll see PowerBooks, but I wouldn't bet on it. As others have said though - unless your HAVE to have one, I'd wait till next week to make any Mac purchases.

Personally, I wouldn't buy a first-gen Mac, so I'm happy with my newish 15" PowerBook.

[SierraDragon]

PowerBooks must be announced. Sales have dropped to about zilch, and dual core Yonah chips are shipping, so what possible reason could there be to further kill the PB line by announcing iBooks and not PBs? Build issues may make us wait a while for delivery, but to not announce Yonah PBs would be beyond stupid.

IMO dual core Yonah performance will knock the socks off our newish 15" PBs that are in reality old G4 boxes.

[NordicMan]

Here is another scenario, which some wags at AppleInsider came up with. The smaller book will be an iBook, and the more well featured(FireWire!), and swifter books will be PowerBooks, all by Yonah.

Then, when Merom comes out, the PowerBook will be powered by that, and the dual core Yonahs will be powering the iBooks.

So, both iBook and PowerBook come out the same day. That way, no performance fall behind on the PowerBook, rather advancement. The professional apps will come along as they are ready.

Whatever the truth is, I am getting itchy waiting to hear what is to come, as it will very possibly be my first Mac notebook. To date I have only PowerMacs. Yes, I know, it is better not to be a guinea pig.

[SEkker]

Intel is releasing two different versions of Yonah, with the slower model shipping now, and the faster in the queue shortly.

The logical thing is for Apple to release both iBooks and powerbooks at the same time, so they can at least take orders for the powerbooks while they wait for Intel to ship in quantity.

There is no way Apple will ship the Yonah consumer laptops without SOMETHING for the (high profit-margin) power user. I'll be watching -- AND spending $$ -- on each new mactel they release. This is the most significant update to the processor since the G3 kicked the pants off the 'ol, higher clock speed, 604 chips. RevA machines may have a bumpy ride sometimes, but they sure should reboot pretty quick!

[NordicMan]

I thought the dual core Yonah was coming out before the single core Yonah, or is that not what you are talking about?

For what my thoughts are worth, I think Apple needs to release a PowerBook with a new iBook, if the dual Yonahs are going to be faster than the G4. It will be interesting to see if the PPC books are entirely displaced right now by the MacIntels.

You are right, SEkker, it is a momentous time. 'each new mactel', eh?

I am anxiously awaiting Tuesday. If I like what I see, this may be my first Mac notebook, prior to this I have had all PowerMacs. 604, G3, G4, G5.

[Fusion]

Originally Posted by demibob

he also said he wouldnt make a ipod that played video just before releasing one
he has a history of trying to throw people off track about what hes up to

Yes he does. I wasn't stating my belief, I was stating a logic that I am assuming others are using when they believe they won't be out this soon.

[mgl]

Intel did say the single cores would be slightly later, but that was a while ago. It's possible that this has changed now. The LV chips are definitely later.

[Troll]

Originally Posted by Fusion

The logic they are using is that Steve Jobs said specifically himself that the consumer lines would be updated before the pro lines. Sounds pretty simple to me.

I don't think he ever actually said that, but let's assume he did. What is a line of products? It's not one product, it's a whole series. He isn't saying that Apple won't update any pro product until the entire consumer line has been updated. He's saying that the move to Intel will be completed in the consumer line before it is completed in the pro line, i.e. the last machine to get an Intel chip will be a pro line machine.

If the PowerBook is updated at the same time as the iBook, that doesn't mean that the statement attributed to Jobs is incorrect. The pro line would still not be Intel before the consumer line.

Think about the business implications of not updating the PowerBook at the same time. As I said, the first Intel products need to be decent so logically they will make the PowerBook look bad if it isn't changed. So, first consequence of not updating the PowerBook, you can't sell PowerBooks anymore. Second consequence, Apple is producing computers using three different chipsets - G4, G5 and Pentium. That means three different suppliers, stock of three different sets of parts ... and more. If they update the iBook and the PowerBook to Intel, then they are only dealing with two chipsets - G5 and Intel. Economies of scale says clearing the G4 from the product line all at the same time is a good idea.

I believe that Apple will update at least some of the PowerBooks when they update the iBook (which might not be today). It would be silly not to. And I think they have a nice stock of current PowerBooks to offer pros that don't want to convert their software.

[ajprice]

What makes me think that there won't be Powerbooks tomorrow is the fact that they still have the current Powerbooks on the Apple frontpage, described as 'New PowerBooks'...

[theolein]

I'm also in the market for a new Powerbook (and I personally wonder if Apple won't come up with an entire new line of Pro machines, since the "Power" name started off with introduction of the PPC back in 1994, but it's really a brand of its own now so who knows) and hope Apple will introduce one tomorrow (I develop both ASP and Java so being able to dual boot would be very nice).

On the one hand it would certainly make sense for Apple to start off slowly and first introduce iBooks and Minis, but the argument about having iBooks that are more powerful than Powerbooks damaging the Pro market is a strong one.

We'll see.

[Seb G]

Originally Posted by theolein

I'm also in the market for a new Powerbook (and I personally wonder if Apple won't come up with an entire new line of Pro machines, since the "Power" name started off with introduction of the PPC back in 1994, but it's really a brand of its own now so who knows) [...]

The name "PowerBook" was used for 68k machines too (the PowerBook 100 was released in 1991, using a 68000 processor). Very valuable brand name, it would be foolish to change it.

[Voch]

Originally Posted by theolein

...since the "Power" name started off with introduction of the PPC back in 1994...

The PowerBook 100, introduced in 1991, had a Motorola 68000 variant in it and the PowerBook 140/170 had a 68030. The name PowerBook predates the PowerPC by a few years.

(I develop both ASP and Java so being able to dual boot would be very nice).

Same here. I'm a die-hard Java developer who switches between my 'ol TiBook and my Windows-equipped Athlon all the time. I'd love to see, say, Virtual PC for Intel Mac where I could get my XMLSpy for Windows fix on my portable Mac in a virtual window.

Voch

[Moderator]

Originally Posted by Seb G

The name "PowerBook" was used for 68k machines too (the PowerBook 100 was released in 1991, using a 68000 processor). Very valuable brand name, it would be foolish to change it.

ouch.

[zanyterp]

sadly, the PB line seems to be in it's death throes to be replaced by the macbook.

but, at least the name is nice. think we will see other screen sizes as the year goes by? or only the 15.4"?

[Simon]

Due to the 17" PB's popularity, I'd expect to see a 17" MacBook Pro as well. I would guess it might have similar specs to the better Mac Book Pro (1.83GHz Duo, 256MB VRAM, etc.) but with a 1680x1050 17" screen.

I'm wondering if the iBook will become the MacBook, or if it will stay the iBook and the MacBook will be a new line - possibly replacing the 12" PowerBook?

[NordicMan]

There have been so many reports of a new size, a 13.3" wide screen book, that it must be coming. Some have reported assurances of this size being available. I am hoping that there will be a lesser priced Mac notebook of that size, or another small size. It would fit so well in to the market niches that the iBook supplied to have a less high priced notebook. But, t here are PowerBook buyers who wish to get a smaller book too.

Just as one businessman who has watched Apple for many years, I have to surmise that there will be a smaller sized powerful book, or Mac Book Pro, and at least one low priced book. The market demands it.

The PowerBook line needed refurbishment, and I think that is why it came first. Really, if the Merom cpu comes along, a new book will appear within this year, one would think.