[ero2]

So I placed my order for a MBP the day of release as this is what I have been waiting for. BUT since the day they were released I have been reading forums, and contemplating cancelling my order, but not until today was I ready to pick up the phone and actually do it. I have read several threads about the Merom processors and how this MBP release is the "junk parts thrown together for a quick release, and that these will be completely obsolete in 6 months or so when they release the merom processors. I started thinking, I hope they don't start to constantly update like PCs. Anyways, am I making a mistake buying now, are the new processors available soon going to make this processor COMPLETELY obsolete? I know it's only obsolete if it no longr fits your needs, but I would hate to lay down 2k only to have my computer be the "stop gap", the "junk parts", the one "just to get them released". What do you guys think?

[mduell]

Merom will add 64-bit support (which I don't see a need for) and is estimated to improve performance per watt by 30% over Yonah (Yonah was a 100% improvement over the previous Dothan).
There is nothing in the MBP that will be obsolete in 6 months, and some things (like the ExpressCard slot) may take a year before they really hit their stride. Also, X1600 is part of the first generation of GPUs to accelerate H.264 playback.
You can't just throw together "junk parts" (what does that mean, anyway?) and come up with a 1" thick laptop.

Yonah is a great performer. The first few Photoshop benchmarks show that it is as fast as a dual G5 at the same clockrate, despite having to use Rosetta for emulation.

[toneloco28]

My advice is to stop reading the forums for a little while. As soon as new technology is dispersed it becomes yesterday's news. I've ordered the MacBook Pro, and I haven't second guessed my decision one time even after reading about it's various "shortcomings". The fact is that the new MacBook is a revolutionary leap in processing power for Apple notebooks, and there's no two ways around that. It's not going to suddenly wake up one day and become slower. If anything once more software becomes universal, and mulit-threaded your machine should actually perform better over time.

I sold my g4 notebook late last year in anticipation of the new Mactels, and I'm satisfied with what was introduced. Let's put it in perspective. Last week someone could have purchased a g4 notebook that is thoroughly outclassed by today's MacBook at the same price. Sure it doesn't have firewire 800, and an s-video port but it's going to run circles around the g4 in computational speed, and graphics prowess. Not to mention a much improved screen, thinner, a built in camera, and future proofing with the new express card slot. Sit back, and enjoy your purchase!


Apple's maintain their value incredibly well, and if anything new comes out just throw the $hit on ebay, and recoup close to what you paid...

[uicandrew]

Originally Posted by ero2

I started thinking, I hope they don't start to constantly update like PCs. Anyways, am I making a mistake buying now, are the new processors available soon going to make this processor COMPLETELY obsolete?

ironically, what made apple switch to intel may be a reason why customers won't like intel. Progress goes too fast. look at this rough timeline

late 2003 - codename "Banias" Pentium M - 1st generation with 1mb L2 cache and 400mh fsb
2004 - codename "Dothan" Pentium M - 2nd generation with 2mb L2 cache and 400mhz fsb (90nm technique)
2005 - codename "Sonoma" Pentium M - 3rd generation with 2mb L2 cache and 533mhz fsb (45 nm technique)
2006 - codename "Yonah" Core Duo

It wasn't just the clockspeed that was increased. Significant changes were made along the way to eliminate "bottlenecks."

I'm not trying to flame bait, but as far as I know (please feel free to correct me), the G4 had increased raw mhz WITHOUT "structural" improvement.

Since intel isn't as secretive as apple is, it is relatively well known what products in the pipeline for a year or 2 ahead of time, as opposed to waiting for Steve Jobs to announce.

I remember people bragging about how their G4 powerbooks from 2 years ago were still very close to being at the top of the line. This may contribute to their very high resale value (that and the tight price controls that prevent price wars that plague dell and everyone else).

with the knowledge of what's in the pipeline and when it will be released, and the fast advancements of intel processors, it wouldn't surprise me if the resale values of macs fell, and more people get "paranoid" of obselence.

Also, if people are able to get Mac OS on a $500 desktop, how much more are people willing to pay for the improved industrial design? For laptops, the design aspects is worth more.

I am definitely not a Mac basher. I am a recent (6 months) Mac user, with an order already placed for a MacBook. but i seriously think that the laptops will improve faster than what they were like with the G4 processor. Future proofing may be MUCH harder with intel's progress.

[ero2]

Originally Posted by toneloco28

My advice is to stop reading the forums for a little while. As soon as new technology is dispersed it becomes yesterday's news. I've ordered the MacBook Pro, and I haven't second guessed my decision one time even after reading about it's various "shortcomings". The fact is that the new MacBook is a revolutionary leap in processing power for Apple notebooks, and there's no two ways around that. It's not going to suddenly wake up one day and become slower. If anything once more software becomes universal, and mulit-threaded your machine should actually perform better over time.

I sold my g4 notebook late last year in anticipation of the new Mactels, and I'm satisfied with what was introduced. Let's put it in perspective. Last week someone could have purchased a g4 notebook that is thoroughly outclassed by today's MacBook at the same price. Sure it doesn't have firewire 800, and an s-video port but it's going to run circles around the g4 in computational speed, and graphics prowess. Not to mention a much improved screen, thinner, a built in camera, and future proofing with the new express card slot. Sit back, and enjoy your purchase!


Apple's maintain their value incredibly well, and if anything new comes out just throw the $hit on ebay, and recoup close to what you paid...

I will do just that. Now, here's hoping to them shipping before the 15th cause I am going insane without a computer of my own, LOL.

[mduell]

Originally Posted by uicandrew

ironically, what made apple switch to intel may be a reason why customers won't like intel. Progress goes too fast. look at this rough timeline

late 2003 - codename "Banias" Pentium M - 1st generation with 1mb L2 cache and 400mh fsb
2004 - codename "Dothan" Pentium M - 2nd generation with 2mb L2 cache and 400mhz fsb (90nm technique)
2005 - codename "Sonoma" Pentium M - 3rd generation with 2mb L2 cache and 533mhz fsb (45 nm technique)
2006 - codename "Yonah" Core Duo

It wasn't just the clockspeed that was increased. Significant changes were made along the way to eliminate "bottlenecks."

I'm not trying to flame bait, but as far as I know (please feel free to correct me), the G4 had increased raw mhz WITHOUT "structural" improvement.
<snip>
but i seriously think that the laptops will improve faster than what they were like with the G4 processor. Future proofing may be MUCH harder with intel's progress.

A few nits to pick:
"Sonoma" was the code name for the second generation of the Centrino platform; the CPU was still Dothan (with a higher FSB) and it was still on a 90nm process.
The G4s have had a number of non-clockrate changes; the cache has continually evolved (from 2MB off-chip L2 to 256KB on-chip L2 to 512KB on chip L2 with an optional off-chip 2MB L3), the process shrunk twice, and I believe the Altivec unit also saw improvements from the early revisions (740x and 741x) to the more recent revisions (744x and 745x).

Across the board (P6, P7, K8, G4, G5) clockrates have stagnated in the last couple years, seeing gains of 20% or less per year, but the G4s have been particularly slow. The Pentium M was at 1.7Ghz in mid-2003, and until a week ago was only at 2.26Ghz (albeit with twice the cache, 33% faster FSB, and faster RAM).