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jayzallme · Feb 12, 2006, 06:10 PM

Has anyone seen or heard anything about any new docks or port replicators designed for the MacBook Pro? I have a MacBook Pro set to ship someday soon, and I'm going to want a dock for it to use a full-size monitor and keyboard at the office.

uicandrew · Feb 12, 2006, 06:27 PM

as far as i know, there hasn't been any docks designed for the powerbooks, let alone the macbook. I'm guessing the best/easiest move would be for you to get an icurve to conserve desk space.

f1000 · Feb 12, 2006, 06:46 PM

BookEndz has been making PowerBook docks for years. They claim to be working on a MacBook Pro dock.

http://www.bookendzdocks.com/

Higuchem · Feb 12, 2006, 09:13 PM

Originally Posted by f1000

BookEndz has been making PowerBook docks for years. They claim to be working on a MacBook Pro dock.

http://www.bookendzdocks.com/

Has any used BookEndz docks before and so what is your opinion on them?

schalliol · Feb 12, 2006, 09:15 PM

I mainly wish these things weren't so damn expensive.

I don't look forward to the side ports on my MBP. I have my PB next to a 20.1" LCD in portrait orientation and I can't imagine a good way to use it without obscuring some of the screen with cables. $275?? Are you kidding me? I just want to not have to individually plug in each cable when I come into the office...is that so hard? It sure would be nice to have a pc-esque docking connector available, though perhaps one that doesn't work at the low level PCs do - creating crashes.

mduell · Feb 12, 2006, 10:20 PM

The lack of a docking connector is lame.
Access to full size optical drives, PCI slots, monitors, mice, PDA/iPod docks, external drives, etc with just one connection.

ender78 · Feb 13, 2006, 08:46 AM

I also don't understand the lack of docs for the Apple notebooks. I would gladly pay about $200 for a well designed dock [I dont like the look of the BookEndz]

slugslugslug · Feb 13, 2006, 09:39 AM

I agree, Mark. Remember the PowerBook Duo + Duo Dock, y'all? I don't know how well that combination worked in practice, but it was such a cool idea, and probably easier to accomplish at a reasonable price point these days. It seems like an especially good idea for an ultralight notebook with no optical drive, because, well, some people (well, me and Gabriel Morales, at least) want a really light notebook, but anyone who does will certainly want to quickly connect it to a decent screen + peripherals as soon as they're at home/the office.

And if a company is gonna design a connector for one laptop model, they may as well work it into all their models. Apparently good docking options are out there in the non-Apple laptop world. Obviously Apple could do it, too. And (while we're in fantasy-land) publish a spec so third-party special-use docks could come out..

schalliol · Feb 13, 2006, 10:06 AM

The Duo was nice, but was crippled as it wasn't fully featured without the dock. That works well for people who only want a sub-notebook. At work I plug in the following connections every day: FireWire 400, two USB connections, DVI, Ethernet and Power. It's a bit of a pain to do that when I may leave mid-day for a meeting.

Apple doesn't make docks currently because it just doesn't make sense on these products with their individual connectors. I really would welcome a dock connector, and Apple could take it to the next level with additional functionality not available in PC docks if they wanted.

f1000 · Feb 13, 2006, 11:34 AM

Originally Posted by slugslugslug

I agree, Mark. Remember the PowerBook Duo + Duo Dock, y'all?

I once owned two of them. I used them with a Duo MiniDock, though, and not with the big VCR-like contraption containing an FPU.

All this talk of a possible MacTablet, though, has made me lose some interest in an ultraslim.

schalliol · Feb 13, 2006, 11:55 AM

Yeah, they were pretty fun. Since Apple can make a computer that's both full-featured and small, like the MBP, there's not a whole lot of reason to go the complete dock route, yet you could integrate an eSATA hard drive or two inside a dock along with FW800 and a USB and FW hub. That would be nice.

schalliol · Feb 13, 2006, 12:06 PM

This was going to be an accidental double-post, but while I'm here. It's difficult to say if it would make sense in offering a device with a hard drive inside, as you might want to take it with you.

slugslugslug · Feb 13, 2006, 02:11 PM

Well, the MBP is full-featured and small, but, y'know, it could be smaller. I mean, I still don't think it's gonna happen because I don't have any illusion that customers like me are anything but a small minority. But I would love a MacBook that weighs about 3 lbs., has a ≤12" screen, no optical drive, and a dock connector. It would still need some ports built in (at least 1 FW, 2 USB, Ethernet , and some kind of video), but they would all be replicated (with perhaps a few more each of FW and USB) through the dock. The standard dock (which presumably you could get á la carte, or bundled with a slight discount), would include optical drive and add'l ports. If 3rd parties made docks, they could do fancy things like PCI slots or card readers or mixing boards or extra HDs.

But again, I'm someone who would be carrying a laptop around in a backpack with other books all day (often on a bicycle) and only using an optical drive at home.

Schalliol: if you made a dock with HD light enough, it'd be a great idea. Take it with you sometimes, but save the weight when you don't need it. My fantasy optical-drive dock is like this too, so you can still watch DVDs on a plane.

schalliol · Feb 13, 2006, 02:19 PM

Fair enough. I don't see why you couldn't go with a 3.5" HD. I was thinking about the width of the back of my Ti for connecting, but if you used a dock connector, it could be not much bigger than a hard drive since you'd mainly be doing port replication beyond the hard drive.

It would be nice if Apple made a MBP sub-notebook like this. I too wouldn't need to have an optical drive, but I guess that the size of them these days isn't a huge factor because you still have a keyboard that's wide.

f1000 · Feb 13, 2006, 02:24 PM

Originally Posted by slugslugslug

My fantasy optical-drive dock is like this too, so you can still watch DVDs on a plane.

I prefer ripping DVDs sans compression onto a 100GB hard drive and doing without cumbersome disks. Besides, optical drives are clunky and noisy.

It'd be cool if Apple could incorporate both Flash RAM and a HD into an ultralight, and then access frequent read but rare write files from the Flash RAM: a sort of hybrid hard drive. I'm for anything that miniaturizes, makes quieter, uses less power, or enhances ruggedness.

A MacTablet, though, would really be something...

schalliol · Feb 13, 2006, 02:31 PM

We're getting pretty off topic here, but it's probably ok since we seem to have answered the questions...

What kind of Flash RAM would you be looking for? We can't get a whole lot out of flash-based RAM at any decent price. That said, it was fun in my PowerBook 165c to boot off of the RAM disk. It kept the machine quiet and running longer on the battery.

f1000 · Feb 13, 2006, 05:16 PM

Originally Posted by schalliol

What kind of Flash RAM would you be looking for? We can't get a whole lot out of flash-based RAM at any decent price. That said, it was fun in my PowerBook 165c to boot off of the RAM disk. It kept the machine quiet and running longer on the battery.

I'd imagine that 2GB of flash soldered onto the motherboard could significantly minimize HD activity. 2GB of flash on the open market costs about $75, which is not a lot to add to the price of a SvelteBook.

mduell · Feb 13, 2006, 06:06 PM

Originally Posted by schalliol

What kind of Flash RAM would you be looking for? We can't get a whole lot out of flash-based RAM at any decent price. That said, it was fun in my PowerBook 165c to boot off of the RAM disk. It kept the machine quiet and running longer on the battery.

The wholesale price of flash is still about 15 times the retail price of hard drives... for ~$250 you can have 8GB flash or 120GB disk, and that makes flash a tough sell.

f1000 · Feb 13, 2006, 06:22 PM

Originally Posted by mduell

The wholesale price of flash is still about 15 times the retail price of hard drives... for ~$250 you can have 8GB flash or 120GB disk, and that makes flash a tough sell.

It's roughly half the price of DDR DRAM, though, and I'm not talking about replacing the entire HD with flash RAM (which is impossible at today's prices). 2GB of flash would serve as a kind of static cache. Just storing the active parts of the OS and Safari's cache in that 2GBs should allow someone to browse the web for hours without spinning up the HD.

Not only does a 12" PB's HD make noise and use power, but it also generates heat that contributes to excessive fan cycling. An ultralight would have less space for a fan and batteries, so minimizing hard drive operation by adding a modest flash cache could work wonders.

slugslugslug · Feb 13, 2006, 06:23 PM

While we're fantasizing about features of a MacBook teensy-weensy, I keepp wondering about the feasibility/usefulness of sticking a 1.8" drive in there. Especially if the perpendicular-recording ones really do come to market soon. Heck, you could stick 2 in there and have 'em take up about as much space as a 2.5", but with more ways of distributing that space usage (well, okay, that's probably not worth the effort).

As far as flash goes, there was talk of Intel developing some kind of chipset that incorporated flash RAM in some weird hybrid setup, but I didn't quite catch how it worked. As far as your idea, how would you determine the frequent-read/rare-write files? Would they be system files that got placed in RAM during the OS install, or would the OS try and determine what to keep there as you work with it?

f1000 · Feb 13, 2006, 06:40 PM

Originally Posted by slugslugslug

As far as your idea, how would you determine the frequent-read/rare-write files? Would they be system files that got placed in RAM during the OS install, or would the OS try and determine what to keep there as you work with it?

I'm guessing that intelligent mirroring would be the best way to use the flash cache.

jayzallme · Feb 13, 2006, 11:10 PM

I'm utterly cracking up at how far this thread has gone since my initial question about docks for the MBP.

schalliol · Feb 13, 2006, 11:25 PM

Well, we answered that question, so we're moving on...

slugslugslug · Feb 14, 2006, 07:21 PM

Well, to recap, BookEndz will probably make one, which a buncha folks here would've guessed if f1000 hadn't posted to that effect. It will probably work but be expensive and, well, kind of a pain in the ass since it's a port replicator and as such needs to be lined up just right.

If anybody else has made a similar product for Apple laptop, it probably sucks, since nobody ever seems to mention any BookEndz competitors.

Also, this would all be easier if Apple made a docking connector. Since they don't yet, we may as well use this thread to conjecture about one.. Now what was I saying about hard drives?...

jayzallme · Feb 15, 2006, 08:40 AM

Great synopsis, slug. Hits the nail right on the head.