[habitualmusic]

Well Ive been reading alot of forums and articles on the MacBook and well I m starting to have 2nd thoughts. The performance I really like but **** the price! I have the money but as a college student cash is hard to come by. The way I was looking at it is it would be a good investment because macs hold there value over pc and down the road ill they ill get a better resale value. Can anyone confirm this? I wiil be using a new lap top for school/work/music and Id like to not purchase another unit for at least 3 years. I would also like a unit to replace my aging desktop. What u guys think about the toshiba's pretty solid? Any other options? how do the toshibas or any other notebook compare to the mac book I.E. Speed Graphics Reliability.

Any help would be great because as of now Im sold on the hype of the new MacBooks.

[Barefoot Matt]

If all you need is "school/work/music", depending on what kind of work it is, you should expect to get at LEAST three years of good use out of a new computer. I've had this dell desktop for about 5.5 years, and with a few upgrades it's still excellent for the stuff I really need it for. It can't play the latest high-intensity 3D games, but it can play some good games, and I shouldn't be wasting my time playing games anyway ;-). So in short, if you're aiming for three years and you don't need to get a lot of heavy duty performance out of it, any average or better computer you buy now will probably do the trick. If you want my advice, set a budget and then look for the machine at that price that looks like the most fun to you. Maybe you love OS X and will end up getting a Mac, or maybe you want... well, I don't know why you'd want a windows machine, but there must be some reasons.

[uicandrew]

why would people still want a windows machine?

compatibility! as much as i like my intel imac, i still can't watch online video clips from cnn or comedycentral.com

honestly, i think the high resale value is no longer going to be the case now that intel chips are being used.

I think the resale value was so high because the release of new models (and new chips) was slow and there were no options.

With all the hacking going around, i can definitely see Mac OS on a dell box in less than 2 years. so you can pay $150 for Mac OS and $900 for a dell laptop, or you can pay $2000+ for a Macbook. for people who have tighter budgets, the extra $1000 saved can go a long way.

also, the last powerbook speed increase was 1.5 to 1.67ghz. now that intel is inside, i can see the updates to be fast.

Here's a real life example. 1 month ago, I bought a used 17" powerbook 1.67ghz hi-res for just $1650. Right now, it costs over $2700 from the applestore. and it has only been 4 months. and when i sold it a couple weeks later with extras worth an additional $400, the highest i was offered was $1600, shipped.

now THAT's not high resale value.

[habitualmusic]

good point thanks for the input...anyone else has there 2 cents to put in?

[John123]

Originally Posted by habitualmusic

**** the price!

Honestly, for a dual core notebook, it is reasonably priced. It's a far better value than one has been able to find in Apple's pro line of laptops in a long time. The last time I remember thinking a PowerBook had overnight become such a comparably good value was the G3 Pismo. You're probably too young to remember what that was...but for many of us, that was the laptop that moved us away from desktops and made us (mostly) never look back. With the G5s, we've all been looking over our shoulders for the past couple years. That ends now.

I'd say if you want a Mac that it's a great buy. Shop around for deals: if you do your homework and buy from (cough, cough) Amazon, you can save over a couple hundred bucks.

[volcano]

Originally Posted by uicandrew

why would people still want a windows machine?

compatibility! as much as i like my intel imac, i still can't watch online video clips from cnn or comedycentral.com

honestly, i think the high resale value is no longer going to be the case now that intel chips are being used.

I think the resale value was so high because the release of new models (and new chips) was slow and there were no options.

With all the hacking going around, i can definitely see Mac OS on a dell box in less than 2 years. so you can pay $150 for Mac OS and $900 for a dell laptop, or you can pay $2000+ for a Macbook. for people who have tighter budgets, the extra $1000 saved can go a long way.

also, the last powerbook speed increase was 1.5 to 1.67ghz. now that intel is inside, i can see the updates to be fast.

Here's a real life example. 1 month ago, I bought a used 17" powerbook 1.67ghz hi-res for just $1650. Right now, it costs over $2700 from the applestore. and it has only been 4 months. and when i sold it a couple weeks later with extras worth an additional $400, the highest i was offered was $1600, shipped.

now THAT's not high resale value.

You're funny.

Macs still and definitely will hold their value. You want to know why you bought your Powerbook for such a great price? It was 1 month ago and people were going crazy over the then-recently and relatively new MacBook Pros. They weren't thinking about resale value - they were thinking about how to get rid of their Powerbooks as fast as possible. I'd also like to see the specs of your old Powerbook to see how it could possibly cost that much directly from the Apple store - because the only "beefy" and expensive upgrades for the 17" models are for RAM - which would be completely stupid to buy from Apple in the first place due to their inflated price.

Go to eBay and look at the completed listing of any Mac - laptop or desktop - and you'll see they're still holding their value. The only reason that they might appear to be "losing" their value is due to the fact that Apple often retains or lowers the prices of newer, more up-to-date models, and so a machine that used to cost $2200 from Apple now only costs $2000 - which means that older, used models must follow suit. Back in June when I bought my 20" iMac, the base price of the model was $1899 prior to any upgrades - now they're only $1699 to start with. You can see good examples of this in the Apple refurbished store.

Why would their value diminish just because they're using Intel chips now? That makes absolutely no sense. It's still the same machine, it's still the same operating system, and it still has the same Apple aesthetics - but now it's just much, much faster.

Even when/if someone gets Windows XP to run on a Mac (and not in emulation), the majority of honest consumers aren't thinking about hacking the operating system. Period.

You can't compare a Dell to an Apple, anyway. Apple builds quality products that are reliable, and they have great support when something goes wrong. My father's HP laptop that he purchased around the same time I purchased my iMac last year (summer '05) has had an endless array of problems since purchase. Mine? Not a single one. But regardless, I'm still covered for three years under AppleCare just in case.

Getting back on track here - habitualmusic, you have two paths you could go down right about now. If you want to save some money, purchase a used Powerbook G4 locally from Craigslist, here on the message boards, or eBay. The PowerPC line of Apple products will be supported at least until 2009/2010 which gives you a couple of years to become accustomed to Mac OS X while saving a few bucks for the Intel MacBook down the road. Or, you could purchase a MacBook Pro right now, shell out the cash, and use the unit for 3 years or more. Since Apple just began transitioning to Intel chips, you'd be at the forefront of the newest technology, and you won't have to worry about your computer being obsolete as soon. The PowerPC chip still has a life to live, though - and Apple isn't about to alienate 99% of it's userbase (including educators - which use Apple hardware a lot) because of this transition.

[hldan]

Originally Posted by uicandrew

why would people still want a windows machine?

compatibility! as much as i like my intel imac, i still can't watch online video clips from cnn or comedycentral.com



now THAT's not high resale value.

While I don't disagree with you about the resale values getting shorter and shorter as I have the 17" 1.33Ghz and mine ain't worth doodly squat now but I can play the videos on CNN and Comedy Central without a hitch. You need some adjustment on your Mac.

[Rumz]

2 cents: if you buy a decent laptop, Mac or PC, it will last 3 years just fine, with the one noted excecption of 3D performance with games which, honestly, after 1 year you'd be lagging even with a desktop machine.

I know Macs are known to hold their value-- but it seems like laptops in general seem to hold their value much better than their desktop counterparts, especially if you buy a nice machine.

As far as price goes-- decide what you really need. Others will tell you that a comparably configured PC laptop will sell for as much or more-- the MacBook isn't a rip off (I've always felt like Apple was fairly / competitively priced in the laptop arena). It won't be long before you see a new Intel iBook I'm thinking, if you can hold out another month or so-- even less expensive-- maybe they can do everything you need to do. I would rather buy a $1k iBook than a $900 Dell laptop (provided the iBook was updated to Intel, of course).

Anyways, those are my thoughts. Anything current should last you 3 years no problem. That's my current upgrade cycle.

[uicandrew]

Originally Posted by volcano

Why would their value diminish just because they're using Intel chips now? That makes absolutely no sense. It's still the same machine, it's still the same operating system, and it still has the same Apple aesthetics - but now it's just much, much faster.

because if i remember correctly, intel has had many more new and faster chips. at least for the powerbook, since April 2004, the powerbook has gone from 1.5ghz to 1.67ghz. powerbook owners were happy about the lack of speed bumps because that meant their older powerbooks still were top of the line or close to it. i think with the increased number of chip updates, apple will release more new models, rendering the amount of time a given laptop is "top of the line" shorter.

Originally Posted by volcano

Even when/if someone gets Windows XP to run on a Mac (and not in emulation), the majority of honest consumers aren't thinking about hacking the operating system. Period.

you're right, most aren't thinking about hacking, but then again, MOST people are using windows. i'm guessing that the more technical types (like mac owners) will BUY a copy of mac OS and then use it on their dell as a cheap 2nd mac. also, technical users of windows might do it out of curiosity. besides, i think it would be somewhat "honest" to buy a genuine OS and install it on whatever system you want. you're still paying for the OS, and to suggest that you can only use the OS on one type of hardware could be "monopolistic" (ironic, huh!)

Originally Posted by volcano

You can't compare a Dell to an Apple, anyway. Apple builds quality products that are reliable, and they have great support when something goes wrong. My father's HP laptop that he purchased around the same time I purchased my iMac last year (summer '05) has had an endless array of problems since purchase. Mine? Not a single one. But regardless, I'm still covered for three years under AppleCare just in case.

Apple does have superior design, but there are tradeoffs. If you drop a powerbook, there is a dent because of the sleek/light aluminum. after the dent, applecare will not fix anything, even if it has nothing to do with the dent. If you drop a dell, since it is all plastic, there is less likely to be physical damage. Also, dell and hp has accidental coverage available.

Also, look at the people who turn their noses up at Rev A products because of their tendency to be buggy. then there is the COUNTERARGUMENT that problems have shown up even in the last revisions of a product line.

[GeniusInABottle]

Originally Posted by volcano

Why would their value diminish just because they're using Intel chips now? That makes absolutely no sense. It's still the same machine, it's still the same operating system, and it still has the same Apple aesthetics - but now it's just much, much faster.

I think that the reason he said this is because Intel updates (and thus obsoletes) it's own chips at a much faster pace than IBM/Motorola ever did with theirs. Sure, a lot of that had to do with the Intel/AMD rivalry on the x86 side, but I think that's kind of the point. IBM/Moto stagnated due to lack of real competition, where-as both Intel and AMD have thrived and continued to innovate.

[Ozmodiar]

Well I'm going on 5 years now with my original TiBook and don't feel the need to upgrade. While a bigger HD would be nice, I'm fine with what I have. Running Tiger, multimedia works fine with Safari, and everything runs fast enough. I don't know what the rest of you are smoking.

[uicandrew]

Originally Posted by Ozmodiar

Well I'm going on 5 years now with my original TiBook and don't feel the need to upgrade. While a bigger HD would be nice, I'm fine with what I have. Running Tiger, multimedia works fine with Safari, and everything runs fast enough. I don't know what the rest of you are smoking.

i've seen ads for wallstreets and lombards where Tiger also works fine, but the needs increase when you want to encode video (ie - iMovie) or ripping cds/dvds, using new technology like USB 2.0, expresscard (when it becomes more popular.

my dad uses an 866mhz dell from 2001. it works fine.
come to think of it, my 233mhz Pentium MMX laptop from 1998 made by Sager Midern (worst laptop manufacturer) works fine. it surfed the web, played command&conquer, and it also worked fine.

you know what? lets boycott apple until they bring back the original iMac. it has a mouse, keyboard, display, and ports for internet access. that is all we need. and they had better include XpostFacto so we can run Tiger. Until they give us this, I am boycotting Apple!

[Ozmodiar]

Originally Posted by uicandrew

I am boycotting Apple!

My point was merely an Apple laptop lasts longer than three years. I have no idea how the hell you misinterpreted that sentiment so bad, but oh well.

[Barefoot Matt]

Originally Posted by uicandrew

you can pay $150 for Mac OS and $900 for a dell laptop, or you can pay $2000+ for a Macbook. for people who have tighter budgets, the extra $1000 saved can go a long way.

This may be true, but the dell you get for $900 won't be equivalent to the MBP. See here for a direct price/feature comparison. If you want to save money, you should be comparing that cheap dell laptop with an iBook, not an MBP.

[uicandrew]

Originally Posted by Barefoot Matt

This may be true, but the dell you get for $900 won't be equivalent to the MBP. See here for a direct price/feature comparison. If you want to save money, you should be comparing that cheap dell laptop with an iBook, not an MBP.

my apologies for not being specific about my point. that is a good chart, but i think a counter argument can be made that it is a 17" dell with 1920x1200 and based on pricing structure, a 17" apple is $500 more than the 15"

also, if you wanted to, you can currently get a 17" dell laptop for $1000. for people who want the 17" screen space, an apple is at least $2500. or a 15" walmart holiday special for $500, whereas the 15" apple is minimum $2000.

i wasn't trying to compare similar specs, but trying to make a point that with mac OS on intel, there are more options available (esp for laptops) especially for people who aren't made of money.

Before, if you wanted to use the mac OS on a laptop, especially with a large screen, you paid out of the nose. in the future, you may not have to.