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cenutrio · Mar 20, 2006, 08:36 AM

Hi guys,

May be you may give me some ideas of what's going on wrong with my 5 years old TiPB 400 with Tiger.

Ok, everything started yesterday night when I arrived home from a 6 h car journey with my PB. The machine was kept on and problems started soon after I woke it up. Basically, long waits and hangs. So, I forced quitting and boot it is again. The machine was completely unable to fully boot. The grey screen with an apple was followed another grey screen but with a sign like this in dark grey (but without the car, of course

I used an external FW HD with OS X 10.4 and tried to initiate the system using the option key. It didn't work, it looked like if the system had no energy to run the external HD since no lights on the external HD showed up as usual.

I tried many times but I went to sleep quite defeated.

Ok, I removed the 80 GB travelstar HD and installed it on a FW box and attached to my Cube. I could boot from the FW HD with no problem. I used disk utilities and system optimizer to check it and fix it. Everything worked fine.

I cleaned the PB insides with air spray, tighted bolts (many were loose) and found a little metalic debri on the mother board. I reinstalled the HD on the PB and turn it on. Everything worked great, my machine was back. I did it on batery power.

However, soon after I connected it to the power cord, problems started again. The machine was able to boot but once system was loaded aplications failed, long hangs and so on (lot's of beach ball too). Anyhow, a bit later the "close to" sign apeared again.

I have 1 GB RAM on it, checked both chips indicidually. It failed to load properly no matter which chip was on in.

At least I know the HD seems in good shape.

I'm running out of ideas.

is it possible the power supply is failing and producing all these problems?

Anyone?

cenutrio · Mar 20, 2006, 08:47 AM

I just read my previous post, I apologize for the grammar (but I'm using a computer without english spelling capabilities and english is my third lenguage).

I plan to get a MBP but not sooner than summer (I'll have a new job) and it covers a laptop. Although, this is a windows only lab

jamil5454 · Mar 20, 2006, 09:07 AM

Have you tried resetting PRAM/NVRAM/PMU?

For resetting PMU:
http://docs.info.apple.com/article.h...num=14449#faq8

For resetting NVRAM:
http://docs.info.apple.com/article.html?artnum=2238

cenutrio · Mar 20, 2006, 09:52 AM

Yes, i did reset the PMU, but not the NVRAM.

However, I'm back with the HD on the Cube (I had to do some work) and somehow, I can not boot it now!

There's an error when I check with disk utilities...weird, it worked fine just 4 h ago. I think the whole thing is falling appart. I'll keep you posted

cenutrio · Mar 20, 2006, 09:53 AM

The good news is that I can read all documents, I just can not boot from that drive.

WOPR · Mar 20, 2006, 10:04 AM

I would have said it was a RAM problem, but both chips failing at the same time would be highly unusual. Maybe buy a cheap used 2.5" HDD that you know to be good and installing that to see if it's the drive at fault after all?

cenutrio · Mar 20, 2006, 10:41 AM

I think the key is the sign, I never in my 9 years working with macs saw it.

I have a 40 GB 2.5" HDD with OS X on it, it didn't boot.

So right now I have

1 TiPB with a 2.5" 40GB HDD and OS X 10.4 that doesn't boot.

1 Cube with an attached 2.5" 80 GB and OS X 10.4 from which can't not boot. However, documents are ok when boot from internal HDD

I agree RAM would be the usual suspect.

jamil5454 · Mar 20, 2006, 10:44 AM

I think it has something to do with the PMU and/or logic board.

cenutrio · Mar 20, 2006, 10:57 AM

My gut feeling tells me is the PMU

did anybody see the booting icon I refer too in my first post? have you seen it in the past?

christ · Mar 20, 2006, 10:58 AM

Try booting from the Apple Hardware Test CD/ DVD, and follow the instructions.

If you have a Hardware problem, it may find it.

cenutrio · Mar 20, 2006, 11:55 AM

Thanks christ, I'm in Spain these days and I left the PB box in Wisconsin

So far, I have completely disassemble the machine. The board is on my table right now, I can not find anything wrong with it. However, it was badly torsed. May be all these years of traveling? Who knows, at least i'm having some fun. I'll post some photos later.

I'll keep you posted.

I'll also take images of the weird starting up icon.

DrunkenTech · Mar 20, 2006, 01:24 PM

That icon usually means the OS is hosed, or there is a hardware problem and the OS refuses to boot because of it. First, try booting in verbose mode (Cmd-V) and see if it gives you any error messages. If nothing, back up the data, blast the HD clean, and start from scratch. It may help to zero the drive in case of problems with the disk causing corruption.

cenutrio · Mar 20, 2006, 01:50 PM

OK, thanks DrunkenTech you may be onto something here. I'll do that in a little bit.

I rebuilt the laptop, no screws left

On the HDD part, I got this dialog when checking it with the utilities:

Verify and Repair disk “Cenutrio”
Checking HFS Plus volume.
Checking Extents Overflow file.
Checking Catalog file.
Invalid node structure
Volume check failed.

Error: The underlying task reported failure on exit

1 HFS volume checked
1 volume could not be repaired because of an error

Any ideas of what me be going wrong?

cenutrio · Mar 20, 2006, 02:08 PM

Additionally, a document named "mds-crash-state" appears on my broken HDD.

I have no clue on how open it or if it has any meaning. It is quite small just 4 kb

christ · Mar 20, 2006, 03:11 PM

Spotless will automatically find and delete the "mds-crash-state" file from selected volumes. The file may be created if the Metadata Server crashed or was unexpectedly closed during the indexing process. The presence of this file can prevent Spotlight from indexing the volume in the future...

cenutrio · Mar 20, 2006, 04:11 PM

Ok, I'm confused now.

My PB is working fine, so it seems, with another HDD in which tiger is installed.

The original HDD seems to be the problem, it doesn't completely boot and there's a node problem that may be related to spotlight indexing.

any ideas?

christ · Mar 21, 2006, 07:58 AM

Originally Posted by cenutrio

any ideas?

Yup.

Copy everything off of the old HDD whilst you still can, then throw it away.

WOPR · Mar 21, 2006, 09:00 AM

Originally Posted by christ

Yup.

Copy everything off of the old HDD whilst you still can, then throw it away.

I agree, any doubt over a hard disk and it's time to bin it.

cenutrio · Mar 21, 2006, 09:06 AM

Ok, I have back ups, my butt is saved here.

However, the machine is unusable, crashes constantly.

I'm quite down, I'm moving and I don't have a laptop and won't have for a coupleof months

I'll show images of the last crash, give me 30 min

cenutrio · Mar 21, 2006, 09:33 AM

http://homepage.mac.com/fechavarri/PhotoAlbum13.html

There you have a image called crash with some low resolution photos taken with my cellular.

Very weird crash.

The Wolf · Mar 21, 2006, 09:59 AM

Does running fsck still work with 10.4?

With earlier versions of 10 when I got weird errors I would run fsck and it always fixed my problems. I also remember it fixing the invalid node problem.

Not sure if that has anything to do with ur problem tho...

WOPR · Mar 21, 2006, 10:04 AM

That's a good idea. For the OP here's the note I carry on my Palm in case of emergencies!

1. Start in single-user (press apple + s keys on boot up) mode to reach the command line.
2. At the command-line prompt, type: /sbin/fsck -fy
3. Press Return.
4. The fsck utility will go through five "phases" then return information about the disk's utilization and fragmentation. Once the check is finished, if no issue is found, you should see "** The volume (name of volume) appears to be OK."
Important: If this message appears, but lists errors, repeat the fsck command until it no longer appears. It's OK if you need to do several "passes" of fsck, because first-pass repairs may uncover additional issues.
5. When fsck reports that, "** The volume (name of volume) appears to be OK.", type: reboot
6. Press Return.

Having said that, that screen shot above reminds of the day my 12" AluBook succumbed to logic board failure (well, the ram soldered to the logic board failed to be precise). I sold it as parts and bought a TiBook 500 with the proceeds, which I actually prefer due to it's fantastic screen.

cenutrio · Mar 21, 2006, 01:13 PM

Thanks WOPR, I followed your instructions, the info returned was:

invalid key length
(4, 574)
**volume check failed.
local host:/ root# FireWire (OHCI) Apple ID 18 built-in: no valid self IDs formore than 2 minutes after bus reset

cenutrio · Mar 21, 2006, 01:21 PM

Just after I typed reboot, restart sequence started but once the blue screen with a installing bar "Mac Os X starting" progressed (slowly), it got stuck at the very end with no further progress whatsoever.

ideas?

WOPR · Mar 21, 2006, 01:34 PM

If the Mac boots prefectly from another drive then at least your Mac is fine. Chuck that drive in the nearest bin (or take it apart and marvel at the technology) to make sure you don't try and use it again. You can pick up another drive cheaply nowadays and your trusty TiBook will live on. I love how easy it is to change drives in the TiBook, took me about 10 minutes when I upgraded mine from 20gb to 60gb. Good luck!

The Wolf · Mar 21, 2006, 02:07 PM

Did you run FSCK several times until there were no more errors found? Once may not be enough.

Apfhex · Mar 21, 2006, 02:28 PM

I'm confused—did you replace the HDD, or is the original still in there? It sounds to me like that might well be the problem.

I stopped moving my PB around when its original HDD failed (IBM TravelStar 60GB). It's been planted on my desk ever since (it happened in May 2004 I believe). I paid $300 to replace it with a 7200RPM version (runs a lot quieter and faster!), not wanting to compromise quality... though looking back on it, you'd think I'd have sprung for a different brand. But I needed a working computer ASAP and didn't have time to look at other options.

Anyway I think my point is that it may be easy to damage these drives if the PB is getting shaken around a lot (even when shut off).

WOPR: Easy to replace? Not IMHO. Unless the construction of the older Ti's is different. There's a LOT of stuff attached to the drive that has to be removed. It takes a little while. I had to visit like 10 different hardware stores just to find a TORX small enough to open up the case (size 6, I think). Fun though.

cenutrio · Mar 22, 2006, 06:37 AM

OK, the original HDD was reformat and system 10.4 was installed, all the data is back too. I've been working on my Cube booted from that drive (via a FW case) for the last 6 hours. Everything works fine.

I'll reassemble the tiPB late tonight. Hopefully all was software related and a crash damaged the system on the drive. However, I feel the crash and HDD damage was due to some up & down in the voltage that affected the hardware. or something similar.

Thanks a bunch on all the feedback. i learned some tricks during this debacle. Cheers, to you all.

WOPR · Mar 22, 2006, 06:41 AM

Really Apfhex? I have the 550mhz model and it literally took about 10 to 15 minutes using a guide I found at pbfixit.com. It was certainly more fun than when I stripped my 12" AluBook down to sell all the components on ebay. There's no way I'd do a drive change on one of those babies. A friend changed the drive in his 17" PB without issue though, I guess there's more room in there!

I'd like to swap the combo drive for a superdrive or DVD-R drive but that is a bit more involved and I may leave it as it is.

cenutrio · Mar 22, 2006, 09:42 AM

There you see my table these days.... the tiPB 400 is completely dissambled with thelogic board close to the lamp. I think it is pretty easy to do it.

sorry for thelow quality images that were taken with a cellular.

http://192.168.1.3/~carlosechavarrierasun/laptop.jpg

cenutrio · Mar 23, 2006, 10:35 AM

Last update:

Ok, wherever is going on with my laptop is not software related nor the HDD

I tested both hypothesis with an additional HDD with a new installed OS X 10.4 and crashed happenedwithin the hour, with the system getting inestable soon after with contiuous reboots and so on.

The original HDD OS X system was probabaly badly damaged during a crash due to a hardware problem. As a consequence two things on my system were running badly.

Anyhow, I have some hypothesis left, (1) the logic board is damaged, (2) the power supply is damaged or another option... (3) after 5 years of very heavy use all the torsion, hits, etc the lapto suffered have may have created situations in which there are electrical contacts that shouldn't happen. This would explain explain why sometimes felt my hand were lightly electroshocked. May be something in contact with a part it shoudn't. I don't know but I heard these kind of reports on rev. Titaniums.

Any thoughts?

WOPR · Mar 24, 2006, 03:54 AM

In your situation I think I'd consider selling it as faulty on ebay, or breaking it all up and selling the parts separately as this would get you more money.