[siflippant]

Like most ppl here, I always thought that with the MBP Apple was dipping it's toes in the water of Intel based laptops... But with the new Macbooks, it just looks like so much time & effort has been put into the design and all the details that go into making a quality product [although these boards might yet be filled with MB users complaining about one issue after another, we will have to wait and see on that one].

Does anyone else here think that with the approaching Merom... Apple's next major revision of the MBP will include a new enclosure and possibly keyboard [if not EXACTLY like the MB's keyboard, but involve a redesign] ala Macbooks? It just seemed too 'easy' for Apple to keep such a similar design to the last rev of G4 PB's... but at the same time I understand they had to get some kind of Intel laptop out to market asap given how long in the tooth the g4's were getting...

Let's hope Apple can hit a home run with the next rev.

[TailsToo]

Too early to tell, but right now the MBPs don't seem like a very good value when compared with the new MBs. I think the features will be just as important as the design.

[Simon]

Originally Posted by siflippant

Does anyone else here think that with the approaching Merom... Apple's next major revision of the MBP will include a new enclosure and possibly keyboard [if not EXACTLY like the MB's keyboard, but involve a redesign] ala Macbooks? It just seemed too 'easy' for Apple to keep such a similar design to the last rev of G4 PB's... but at the same time I understand they had to get some kind of Intel laptop out to market asap given how long in the tooth the g4's were getting...

I believe the Merom MBPs arriving in Fall will be redesigned too. I doubt they'll get a MB style keyboard, but they will certainly see design changes. Apple's designers rushed the current MBP when Intel started shipping Yonah earlier than everybody expected. The rev B MBP will allow them to redo certain design aspects. I'm wondering if they'll also use the non-mechanical, button-free magnetic latching on the MBP. The quickly replaceable HDD would be nice too. And I'm still waiting for a decent port on the underside to attach docking stations or port replicators.

[striker100]

Yeah, buying an MBP now is like buying a car that hasn't been redesigned in 4 years, you just know the year after you buy it it will look completely different. Unfortunately some people can't wait for Merom, we're talking at least a 3-4 month wait.
I just bought a 15" MBP so of course I hope the design doesn't change (selfish I guess) but if Apple eventually makes the MBP from gunmetal carbon fiber with the new MacBook closure, well how cool would that look?

[Zeeb]

I'm also interested in seeing how apple might work carbon fiber cases into the design. Yet, I really like the current look even though its several years old now. Its hard for me to imagine an improvement over the current sleek enclosure, other than the addition of some ports and possibly a new latch as mentioned above. What do you suppose a completely redesigned MBP might look like?

[slffl]

I think Apple will deput redesigned MBPs when they release Leopard. A new MBP with a new OSX, that would sell like hotcakes!

[Bryanmc]

Originally Posted by slffl

A new MBP with a new OSX, that would sell like hotcakes!

As opposed to the current MacBook Pros which sell like third-degree-burns-on-your-legs cakes.

[chipchen]

Even though the MacBook Pro looks like the old PowerBooks, they are basically a redesign from the ground up. There are only TWO parts from the PowerBooks that are shared with the MBPs.

Here's a question, why would Apple spend all this time to design a computer, and then toss it out? The iBook design went though two full generations, G3's and G4's. The Aluminum design only came in half way through the G4 generation. I suspect we'll see several revisions of the MacBook Pro's before an enclosure redesign.

[Simon]

Originally Posted by chipchen

Even though the MacBook Pro looks like the old PowerBooks, they are basically a redesign from the ground up. There are only TWO parts from the PowerBooks that are shared with the MBPs.

Wanna back that up? I have a 2 GHz MBP and a 1.67 GHz PB G4 right in front of me and they certainly share more than just two common parts.

[masugu]

If Apple veered from the MBP aluminum...might they also change the Cinema displays?? Those have not been around too long. I know the desktop match up drove that...but who knows what will happen to the powermac enclosures. I think notebooks drive most decisions now.

[Simon]

Originally Posted by masugu

If Apple veered from the MBP aluminum...might they also change the Cinema displays?? Those have not been around too long.

I hear a rumor that the Cinema Displays were going to be updated. The case should supposedly remain similar, but an iSight and more ports on the back are to be included. Personally, I'd like to see a second DVI in port and I'd like prices to come down somewhat. Dell's screens are to tempting to many right now.

[King Bob On The Cob]

Originally Posted by chipchen

The Aluminum design only came in half way through the G4 generation. I suspect we'll see several revisions of the MacBook Pro's before an enclosure redesign.

The Aluminum design has been around longer than the Titanium design was. (2001-2003/2003-2006).

[chipchen]

Backup? Haha.. First of all, that information came from the Apple repair manual. But it's obvious, just look closer...

Start from the outside. The whole casing is wider and thinner. That means none of the casing is used. The screen is wider, the case is wider. Even the latches... there's two in the MPB and one of the PB. There's an iSight camera in the screen and the LCD is 15.4, not 15.2.

Then we go inside, the MBP uses an intel processor, which means the logic board is obviously not the same design. The optical drive is a new thinner 9.5 mm drive instead of the regular size. The ExpressCard slot instead of the PCMCIA and the magsafe power instead of the regular power adapter. The ports are a different layout, so the parts are laid out differently. Battery is different. RAM is a different type.

Should we go any further? Do you need more "backup"? You should take apart your laptops and switch parts if you don't believe me.

[Simon]

Originally Posted by chipchen

Should we go any further? Do you need more "backup"? You should take apart your laptops and switch parts if you don't believe me.

You're entirely missing the point. Many parts might have changed slightly in dimension (adding a few mm size does not change the way a part works), but apart from the logic board (obviously), the iSight and the FR stuff, all MBP parts have already been designed and used by Apple for quite some time with the PB.

The trackpad design is identical (just wider).
The keyboard is identical.
The HD is the exact same type found in the last batch of PBs.
The bottom case is identical except for the redesigned hinge (Airport window),IR port and adjustment to the case height
The top case is identical except for the change of dimension to accommodate the new screen size (15.4" vs. 15.2") and the iSight
The plastic lining where the Al parts join is identical
The optical slot is identical
The port design is identical
The latch design is identical, it's just x2 now
The battery design is identical (not the battery internals though)

Yep, the only significant design change is the logic board. The Intel 945 chipset is the really new part.

And since I actually have both devices and I've also opened and examined both, you're probably not in the position to give me a snotty lecture on the subject.

Bottom line is, the MBP is design-wise an modified PB. It is by no means new or radically altered. The differences between the iB and the MB are on an entirely different scale.

[Maflynn]

I agree with Simon, the MPB is just intel innards stuffed into a powerbook. Apple really didn't redsign the MPB. Yeah I know there are slight differences but that's the keyword slight.

I do expect apple to in the near future to roll out a new MBP that has been redesigned. I believe they rushed these out, just for the sake of having a pro model intel laptop.

Mike

[Enigmaaron]

What exactly is wrong with the MacBook Pro design that needs to be changed? If you are complaining about Apple not changing the design simply for the sake of change that is ridiculous. By your specs the pesky iPod hasnt changed in design yet. Anyone complaining there? It's a good design, why change it?

[TailsToo]

Just because the desgin isn't bad doesn't mean that it shouldn't be changed - sad as it is, that's the modern world, and especially for Apple, who thrives on design.

Most of the car designs from the 1980s would be fully functional in cars today, but no one would buy a car that looked like a 1985 Civic.

I love my 15" PowerBook, but it doesn't get the Wow Reaction that people used to give it, and like they do the MacBook now. Apple needs that to keep their sales going.

[Enigmaaron]

Originally Posted by TailsToo

Just because the desgin isn't bad doesn't mean that it shouldn't be changed - sad as it is, that's the modern world, and especially for Apple, who thrives on design.

Most of the car designs from the 1980s would be fully functional in cars today, but no one would buy a car that looked like a 1985 Civic.

I love my 15" PowerBook, but it doesn't get the Wow Reaction that people used to give it, and like they do the MacBook now. Apple needs that to keep their sales going.

That's the point though, minor changes can keep up that wow factor. The MacBook isn't drastically different than your PowerBook but it's updated enough. These people are calling for complete redesigns.

We also aren't talking about Civics here. I would certainly still buy a 1985 Porsche.

[Severed Hand of Skywalker]

I don't think they will be re-designed till next January.

[masugu]

So BlacBook Pros in January ? ;-)

[Severed Hand of Skywalker]

Originally Posted by masugu

So BlacBook Pros in January ? ;-)

Na I still think silver but just a latch-less redesign among other things.

[Yakov]

Originally Posted by striker100

Yeah, buying an MBP now is like buying a car that hasn't been redesigned in 4 years, you just know the year after you buy it it will look completely different.

You heard it here first: The next Macbook Pros will be triangular.

[jeebus]

Originally Posted by Simon

The HD is the exact same type found in the last batch of PBs.

I believe the MBP uses a faster SATA HD whereas the Powerbooks had ATA HDs.

Originally Posted by Simon

Yep, the only significant design change is the logic board. The Intel 945 chipset is the really new part.

Well, perhaps our ideas of what is implied by the word "design" differ, but to say the only significant design change is the logic board does not make much sense to me. In terms of the design of the internal hardware, much much more than the logic board has been significantly changed.

In the MBP there is a newer and faster (or better)
-Processor
-Front Side Bus
-Memory
-L2 cache
-PCI express expansion
-16 lane PCI express for graphics (vs AGP 4x)
-Radeon X1600 w/256 MBs of VRAM
-expresscard slot
-lithium polymer battery
-802.11g card with better reception

and that is only what I can remember off the top of my head. To say that the logic board is the only significant change seems ridiculous to me.

[Simon]

Originally Posted by jeebus

I believe the MBP uses a faster SATA HD whereas the Powerbooks had ATA HDs.

My bad. The PB still had PATA. You're right.

Well, perhaps our ideas of what is implied by the word "design" differ, but to say the only significant design change is the logic board does not make much sense to me. In terms of the design of the internal hardware, much much more than the logic board has been significantly changed.

In the MBP there is a newer and faster (or better)
-Processor
-Front Side Bus
-Memory
-L2 cache
-PCI express expansion
-16 lane PCI express for graphics (vs AGP 4x)
-Radeon X1600 w/256 MBs of VRAM
-expresscard slot
-lithium polymer battery
-802.11g card with better reception

and that is only what I can remember off the top of my head. To say that the logic board is the only significant change seems ridiculous to me.

Of course I count all of those in what I called 'logic board'. Maybe you'd prefer the term motherboard or chipset. I meant to say the entire chipset and features including all these things you mention. And that's exactly my original point: All these things have changed a lot. The case is basically the same.

[chipchen]

I do own both... in fact, I own more than one of each... and have taken then apart. My original statement is that this is not simply a revision to the PowerBook, but a redesign to accomodate all the changes.

Simon stated, "they certainly share more than just two common parts."

That is just not the case. As others and myself have mentioned, there are just about no interchangeable parts between the PowerPC PowerBooks and the Intel MacBook Pros.

While the design is OBVIOUSLY inspired from the PowerBook design, it is still a major redesign from a technical and manufacturing stand point. No one is saying that the MacBook Pro doesn't look like a PowerBook... it does. But they didn't just stretch it and toss in an Intel chip.

[alex_kac]

One thing to keep in mind about the enclosure is that each time Apple has come up with new laptop enclosures, some flaw was found. Then as they improved things the enclosures themselves have become very very stable.

Just like on cars, the first major iteration is going to have some bugs. My 2000 Chevy Suburban did. But the 2006 Suburbans are much more reliable in those areas the 2000 wasn't since they had 6 years to perfect it.

So while I want something new and cool too, I'm on the edge of wanting a totally new design or something based off the current one. I love my wife's MBP. The only thing I wish it had was a docking port...

[Simon]

Originally Posted by chipchen

Simon stated, "they certainly share more than just two common parts."
That is just not the case.

<gets out AASP disassembly guide>

OK, power button is identical, latch is identical. Those are two. Shall I go on? Fine. Rubber feet are identical, latch release button is identical. Now we have four. Shall I go on?

Making a point is one thing. Another is just not admitting when you're wrong. You made a gross exaggeration. The MBP is design-wise a modified PB. It is no complete redesign. If you can't understand that, well, I just give up.

Would you at least agree with me, that the step Apple took from the iB to the MB was in terms of design a much larger one?

[chipchen]

Why are you pretending to be an AASP?

If you were, you would know that the power button is part of the top case, not a seperate part. The latch mechanism is part of the bottom case and top bezel. There are different part numbers for every size PowerBook feet, the designs differ slightly, but you would know that too since you're an AASP. Latch button is part of the bottom case. That's all four parts that you're wrong on.

Don't try to be something your not. I've got my ACDT and ACPT certifications, you obviously don't other wise you would know these things. Apple doesn't replace just power buttons or just latches.. they replace the top case, bottom case, lcd bezel, lcd housing, etc.

[chipchen]

MacBook Pro (pictures from ifixit.com)
http://www.ifixit.com/Guide/85/images_thumb/28.jpg

PowerBook 15" 1.67 (pictures from ifixit.com)
http://www.ifixit.com/Guide/54/images_thumb/28.jpg

notice all the parts are the same.

[chipchen]

Here, I'll post it. Apple may make me remove it... but I want you to read it.

MacBook Pro repair manual, page 6.

"From the exterior, the MacBook Pro has a similar look to the previous aluminum PowerBook notebook computers. However, as far as major part compatibility only the powercord and the power adapter AC plug are the same."

Image here: http://www.flickr.com/photos/84523218@N00/149665141/

[ajprice]

Thats talking about the power cord and AC adapter peripherals, not the design of the MBP to the PowerBook.

[striker100]

There is no way the next MacBook Pro's are going to look like the current version. There will be some design elements lifted straight from the MacBook like the magnetic closure which is nicer and more elegant than the MacBook Pro closure. Now that Apple is adding color to the Macs I expect the next MacBook to be made of either carbon fiber or aluminum but with a darker gunmetal finish.

[Simon]

Originally Posted by chipchen

Why are you pretending to be an AASP?

I am not an AASP. And I'm not pretending to be anything. Why this attack?

I just took a look at copies of two manuals I've acquired. Both have 3D renditions of a disassembled MBP/PB and all the parts they're made up of (and yes, the power button is labeled by itself) and some numbers by which these parts go. On mine there are many identical numbers between the MBP and the PB. And nowhere did I say AASPs exchange power buttons or anything like that. I don't know where you get this stuff from.

But basically this has just become a pissing contest and it's entirely irrelevant. It's not about part commonality. It's about design. Bottom line is the MBP is no complete redesign. The MB is. And I expect the MBP to experience such a redesign (expect new latch for example) within the next 12 months. You may agree or not. It's just my opinion. There's no need for any personal attacks here.

[siflippant]

Originally Posted by Simon

You may agree or not. It's just my opinion. There's no need for any personal attacks here.

Agreed

[shabbasuraj]

No Merom's until after Dec25.

[chipchen]

ajprice -

it's the overview of the repair manual. It's saying basically that if you were to compare the full list of parts that can be ordered to repair a MacBook Pro and PowerBook, only those two parts overlap. However, accross PowerBook revisions you would see the same parts for casing, drives, boards, lcd, etc. What they mean by "major part" is anything that has a part number and that they consider one piece. I mean, you can take the "y" key from both computers and swap them, but you can't order a "y" key from Apple. You would have to order the keyboard, which is a different part (due to length or cable, etc).


simon -

you started this when you couldn't take a simple post and agree or disagree. You simply taunted and asked for "backup." And so I've given you that information. Then you stated: "<gets out AASP disassembly guide>" And made a bunch of ridiculous statements. If that's not misrepresenting, I don't know what is.

You want to look at two similar looking products and say they're the same, fine. I really don't care. But it still stands that from a technical stand point, these machines are nothing alike. They share nothing common "under the hood." It's not like they changed a machine or two at the manufacturing plant, they had to revise the whole thing. Apart from colors, the blue and white G3 look very similar in design to the last PowerMac G4 design... but they differed greatly on the inside, and that's where the difference is. A design comprises more than just what it looks like and was inspired to look like. It comprises the insides, the technical, the engineering of a product.

As an adult I gave you reasoning, as a technician I gave you specifics and proof. But you just don't like to be wrong, so you can stick with what you believe. I never mentioned about future revisions or my thoughts about them. Do I hope they make improvements? Who doesn't?

If you want to give it a rest, let's give it a rest. We'll just say I'm coming from a technical stand point and you're coming from a consumer stand point. Both are totally legitimate.

[Simon]

Originally Posted by chipchen

As an adult I gave you reasoning, as a technician I gave you specifics and proof. But you just don't like to be wrong, so you can stick with what you believe.

Well well, 'giving it a rest' normally doesn't start by another ad hominem attack, but let's just imagine you never wrote that line and continue with the actual topic of this thread.

I never mentioned about future revisions or my thoughts about them.

But that's the topic here. "New Macbooks: a sign that Apple will revamp the MBP enclosures in the next rev?".

So what's your stance on this topic? Do you think Apple's changes in going from the PB to the MBP were so radical, that it will be just CPU upgrades and clock increase from now for the next two, three years? Do you believe the new keyboard and magnetic latching system will stay MB-only? Or do you believe that maybe the changes going from PB to MBP were mainly the change in chipset and therefore design-wise the MBP might start looking quite a bit different with the next revision?

IMHO the iB->MB was a much more radical change than the PB->MBP switch (early release of Yonah didn't leave much time) and so I could well imagine the MBP will change its looks quite a bit with rev B which might just come out in Fall after Intel has releases Merom.

Is that speculation? Sure! We do a lot of that on this board. It's fun and sometimes it's interesting too. So what's your speculation?

[Simon]

Originally Posted by shabbasuraj

No Merom's until after Dec25.

You really think so?

After all Intel is expected to launch Merom in August. If Apple waits till MWSF in Jan 2007 for the Merom MBP I'm wondering how the Yonah MBP will do in the holiday buying season. Will people buy a MBP with a Yonah if they already know Merom is out? If competition is already selling Merom powered notebooks? I'd imagine Apple would have a hard time convincing people not to wait it out.