[duhroo]

Heeey everybody! I'm a couple-week long lurker, first time poster. I'm, like many others I'm sure, a long time windows user woo'd by the idea of Bootcamp, however the more I read up about my soon-to-be mine 15 inch MBP, that Windows partition in my mind is getting smaller and smaller. So basically, here's my dilemma, which I'll try to explain in more detail than others with the same problem so that you can get into the psyche of an impatient nerd.

I REAAAALLY want my computer... like... now-ish.
BUT. Intel Core Duo 2?
I'm not a HAAAARDCORE user by any means. I'm fairly savvy, but I don't do anything particularly processor intensive. I'm sure I'll play a few games here and there, maybe some Half-Life 2, lil bit of this, lil bit of that. I'm coming off a Vaio from like 2003-ish so in no way am I used to have THE LATEST AND GREATEST. But my excuse for buying my MBP is college, so I technically 'don't need it' (coughhackblahodsihoa) until like August. So if I have to wait for August I can, but I'd really rather not., So more or less... I'm thinking I'll just say 'screw it, I want it now', but does anybody have further evidence to prove or suggest SIGNIFICANT increase in power going to the CD2? I don't just mean "ohhhh, you'll get 2.3 MHz, wait for it". but freakin'... "it's gonna take over the world if you don't buy one" 'Cause I don't wanna have to wait... but if it's ridiculous not to... then I GUESS I'LL JUST HAVE TO DO IT.

Thanks everybody!
-Gabe

[Zeeb]

There is going to be a developer conference in August during which it is possible that there will be another update to the MBP. Its only a rumor but Apple traditionally uses events like this to announce new products. People are widely speculating that the MBP will have a powerful new mobile processor at that time. On the other hand, there was recently a small processor upgrade to the Core Duo chip so maybe not.

If you believe you will be happy with the current version then buy it now and have fun. However, you will need to be comfortable with the possibility that an advanced new computer might come out a few months from now. In theory, one might say, "ah well it doesn't matter" but new releases are generally associated with intense marketing and hype designed to drive people crazy. These boards are filled with people regretful over a purchase just before a new release. Decide which kind of person you are now!

[peeb]

Yeah, you can always play the 'but an upgrade is just around the corner' game, and, it will be, but honestly, even if you get the greatest, newest, it will only stay that for a few months. Buy something you like, when you need it, and accept that there will be something newer and shinier down the line without remorse!

[herald]

There will always be something new around the corner, smaller, more powerful, if you only wait a couple more months. Then, the story begins all over again. No matter what you do, as soon as you purchase your laptop, it will have an end of life cycle. So, if you want a compuer now, buy it now. I have been working in the computer industry for over 24 years. The one thing that I can tell you is that improvements are incremental. You are not going to see a laptop during WWDC that is twice as fast as the currrent MBP. If you benchmark the forthcoming laptops with CD 2, you'll get 5 seconds less to perform an intense Photoshop filter, 5 more frames on complex game, in benchmark tests. In short, there will be no great leaps between now and August.

[©öñFü$íóÑ]

college work you say? I have an 800MHz Athlon PC (desktop) running Office 2003..... it's good enough.

as for games, clearly you'd want something that -AT LEAST- beats what most games today ask for in their "Minimum Requirements". So yeah, get an MBP and set it up with a separate Windows XP partition. Even if you don't play games as much, when you're done with college or just plain bored with your old game, you'd have some breathing room to try something else within a year or two.

[GoCats]

I've read that the core 2 duo will only have 20-30% speed increases initially... significant, but not enought to have made me wait. I think the bigger thing they'll offer is better battery life. But then again, I thought these Core Duos were suppose to do that too, and they definitely don't. I'm getting about the same, maybe less usage time than I did from my G4 1.67 Powerbook.

[onlykaria]

everyone is correct

however i wanted to add something else. i got my first mbp when it came out in fed. now i didnt do this because i am an early adaptor i did this because my old computer was broken and i wanted some of the features in the mbp, magsafe as i had gone through 5 of the old adaptors and the 120gb hd. (after transfering all my old stuff i had 70gbs left so i think going for something smaller would not have ben smart.... i digress.

point is since that point i have gone through 4 machines:
1st mbp 15in- mbp dead dvd drive, kernal panics daily, whine, heat list goes on...
2nd mbp 15in- dead on arrival
3rd mbp 17in - dead dvd drive/no drivers on arrival
4th mbp 17in - worked great for 2 weeks then the HD and logic board died the same day.

i am on my fifth machine now.

i tell you this so that you know that there are issues out there, whether its quality control or the curse of crypt keeper or whatever. in my opinion apple has not addressed these issues.

and there are many, many, many, users who never had such problems, but some users do.

chances are you will not, but you should not that there is a real chance, however small, that replacements and repairs could have you not having anything to work with for weeks at a time.

my suggestion is do some foot work on these issues, or wait for a few months after a true revision has come out and see if newer machines are less issued.

[SEkker]

Originally Posted by onlykaria

everyone is correct

however i wanted to add something else. i got my first mbp when it came out in fed. now i didnt do this because i am an early adaptor i did this because my old computer was broken and i wanted some of the features in the mbp, magsafe as i had gone through 5 of the old adaptors and the 120gb hd. (after transfering all my old stuff i had 70gbs left so i think going for something smaller would not have ben smart.... i digress.

point is since that point i have gone through 4 machines:
1st mbp 15in- mbp dead dvd drive, kernal panics daily, whine, heat list goes on...
2nd mbp 15in- dead on arrival
3rd mbp 17in - dead dvd drive/no drivers on arrival
4th mbp 17in - worked great for 2 weeks then the HD and logic board died the same day.

i am on my fifth machine now.

i tell you this so that you know that there are issues out there, whether its quality control or the curse of crypt keeper or whatever. in my opinion apple has not addressed these issues.

and there are many, many, many, users who never had such problems, but some users do.

chances are you will not, but you should not that there is a real chance, however small, that replacements and repairs could have you not having anything to work with for weeks at a time.

my suggestion is do some foot work on these issues, or wait for a few months after a true revision has come out and see if newer machines are less issued.

You are the unluckiest Apple customer I've ever heard of! All I can say is you are most definitely the outlier -- my lab has purchased nearly 50 macs over the years, and only one has had to go back for repairs more than once.

[onlykaria]

LOL I may be I am thinking of taking the one I got this week to one of the witch doctors/ excursist/ ghost removal persons to remove any evil spirits or bad luck mojo that may have cursed my machines

[rcarlosnyc]

I have a MBP 17" without ANY issues.

We have purchased 40 MBP 15" laptops at work and NOT A SINGLE ONE has had problems. I don't understand how so many of you are having problems. We started buying the 15" MBPs when they were first announced so they're all coming from different manufacturing runs.

[onlykaria]

Originally Posted by rcarlosnyc

I have a MBP 17" without ANY issues.

We have purchased 40 MBP 15" laptops at work and NOT A SINGLE ONE has had problems. I don't understand how so many of you are having problems. We started buying the 15" MBPs when they were first announced so they're all coming from different manufacturing runs.

bad luck. who knows?

[drewcifer]

yeah i was in the same position as you. my parents offered the computer as a graduation present and i jumped on it right away. Go for it now, you'll love it. As others have said, if theres any increase it will be marginal. Plus there will always been something new and better on the horizon. Just buy it and enjoy it!

[analogika]

Originally Posted by GoCats

I've read that the core 2 duo will only have 20-30% speed increases initially... significant, but not enought to have made me wait. I think the bigger thing they'll offer is better battery life. But then again, I thought these Core Duos were suppose to do that too, and they definitely don't. I'm getting about the same, maybe less usage time than I did from my G4 1.67 Powerbook.

I thought the speed increase will be *per clock cycle*, meaning a core 2 duo @ 2.3 GHz will run 20-30% faster than a Core duo at 2.3 GHz.

Considering that they are specced to be introduced at up to 2.5 GHz, while we're currently at 2.16, I'd say the speed difference is going to be noticeable.

Also, the longer you wait, the better the chances that any existing issues with the current models will have shown up and been resolved.

However: There is ALWAYs a "next model", and it is ALWAYS released immediately after you buy yours (due to the fact that if you buy a computer every three or four years, six months later is definitely perceived as fairly immediate, even though it's almost a full computer generation).

[GoCats]

Well, yes, it should be noticeable, but it's not like the 2-4 fold speed increase diff between the MBP and the Powerbook... I mean, if it were going to double the speed, I'd wait for sure.

Also, while the chip will be faster, they are not upping the bus speed or cache, so you won't see the full difference in chip performance in the overall system performance.

Anyway, I would have waited for the core2duos but I had to have a laptop today... and since I 20-30% speed differences are not "significant" to me (I'm generally only interested in 50%+ diffs), I went ahead and bought now.

[analogika]

yes, well vamirepope doesn't have to have the laptop today.

He's in a different situation.

And judging by the speed at which Intel has been updating the Core Duos (the MacBook Pro was already upgraded once before it even *shipped*, and again after only two months), a speed increase close to 50% (20% clock speed increase + 20-30% better efficiency) is not all that unrealistic over today - though probably not by August.

[mduell]

Intel's most recent releases on Merom (mobile Core 2 Duo) say 30% performance improvement at the same power consumption. I believe that's an absolute performance improvement, not per-clock.

I'd wait for Core 2 Duo. The current MacBook Pros have too many issues.

edit: Intel's latest statements say ">20% performance improvement" and the clock speeds are only going to be 0.17Ghz higher, so it may be about a 20% improvement at the same clockrate.

[herald]

Originally Posted by onlykaria

everyone is correct

however i wanted to add something else. i got my first mbp when it came out in fed. now i didnt do this because i am an early adaptor i did this because my old computer was broken and i wanted some of the features in the mbp, magsafe as i had gone through 5 of the old adaptors and the 120gb hd. (after transfering all my old stuff i had 70gbs left so i think going for something smaller would not have ben smart.... i digress.

point is since that point i have gone through 4 machines:
1st mbp 15in- mbp dead dvd drive, kernal panics daily, whine, heat list goes on...
2nd mbp 15in- dead on arrival
3rd mbp 17in - dead dvd drive/no drivers on arrival
4th mbp 17in - worked great for 2 weeks then the HD and logic board died the same day.

i am on my fifth machine now.

i tell you this so that you know that there are issues out there, whether its quality control or the curse of crypt keeper or whatever. in my opinion apple has not addressed these issues.

and there are many, many, many, users who never had such problems, but some users do.

chances are you will not, but you should not that there is a real chance, however small, that replacements and repairs could have you not having anything to work with for weeks at a time.

my suggestion is do some foot work on these issues, or wait for a few months after a true revision has come out and see if newer machines are less issued.

Don't feel bad. I've gone through 4. My 4th one is working perfectly now for over 3 weeks!!

[jamil5454]

How about this:

Buy a MacBook now instead of the MacBook Pro, get the free iPod Nano, and use the cash you save to build yourself a decent gaming PC.

It sounds like the most intensive thing you'll be doing is gaming, and since that'll be done on the PC which can be upgraded, you won't regret not waiting the X amount of months for the newer laptop. You'll also be able to dedicate the MacBook for OS X and the PC for Windows, saving diskspace and complexity.

The MacBook is more suited for a student anyhow. I use my iBook on campus and pack it in my backpack when I'm traveling, and I don't really have to worry about dents and scratches... I just use it.

I'd be too scared do that with an aluminum notebook.

[Moderator]

You should wait man. You'll prob have this for most or all of college....wait and make it count. Also....I'd wait less for the power increase and more for the build quality issue. Wait a few months and you'll get a well oiled machine rather than a 1st gen risk.

Its summer..go enjoy it. Come back in August and get your 2.5 GHz Core 2 Duo Black MacBook Pro with free iPod Nano!

[drewcifer]

Originally Posted by Moderator

You should wait man. You'll prob have this for most or all of college....wait and make it count. Also....I'd wait less for the power increase and more for the build quality issue. Wait a few months and you'll get a well oiled machine rather than a 1st gen risk.

Its summer..go enjoy it. Come back in August and get your 2.5 GHz Core 2 Duo Black MacBook Pro with free iPod Nano!

stoppppp ittt. you're making me regret my decision! heheheheh

[hldan]

Here's the EZ answer to this speed concern. All the MacBook Pros run extremely fast especially when it comes to gaming. There will not be an issue as far as throwing heavy apps and especially heavy 3D games at it. I have seen Call of Duty on the 2.0 Ghz 15" MPB (running on the Windows side via Bootcamp) and it ran very well with high frame rates.
At this point Apple has addressed speed by using the best class of processors for all of their current Intel based Macs including the Mac Mini so your only concern should be which one to buy the 15" or the 17" model. The 15" 2.16Ghz might be a better buy beacause of the preinstalled 1GB memory stick and the larger HD and more graphics memory but the 2.0Ghz vs. 2.16 should be the least of your concern because at this point both processors will run heavy 3D games very well.

Don't keep waiting for the next fastest processor because you may hesitate when someone on this forum says something like, "Oh the Merom is fast but Intel is releasing a faster chip in a few more weeks" and then you may keep waiting and then you end up buying nothing. Don't get caught up in the hype.
The only smart decision was waiting for the Intel based Macs which is what I did.