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You are here: MacNN Forums > Hardware - Troubleshooting and Discussion > Mac Notebooks > MacBook Sudden Shutdown

MacBook Sudden Shutdown (Page 3)
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Sep 8, 2006, 11:07 AM
 
if you started to have rss problems,
they will get worse.
that's my experience, anyway
     
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Sep 8, 2006, 12:09 PM
 
Originally Posted by mstar
I am wondering if there are several RSS issues at play here.
my macbook will only RSS when it is totally cold. ie after a full night of rest.
then when starting, after the login, it will crash.
(actually, system log shows rss cause = -82 like others)

if I keep the mac switched on all the time, I can still push it hard, 100+% cpu, I am using parallels sometimes which will push it hard too, no problem. I have it running non stop for a week now. never a crash, and never a crash when hot.
the fan works very well and keeps the mac cool.

if I shutdown and restart from a "warm" state, no problem. only when starting from a dead cold, will it RSS.

very annoying.. so I hope Apple has found out the fix for ALL rss issues. not the heatsink problem only. actually we have evidence from this thread and others, that replacing the logic board and heat sink is not enough to prevent recurrence. so..

this is very bad after all this promotion "a mac doesn't crash".. well.. you know.. at least one does.
Laws of Physics at work here:

One theory is the 'shorting out' causing the problem varies with temperature. That is when cold or cooler the contraction taking place causes the shorting to occur. The assembly tolerances are very, very close and vary slightly from MacBook to MacBook. It also explains the varying time to occur since new (out of the box). We all handle our MacBooks differently; some remain in one place daily and others are open and shut and moved and packed up in cases or sleeves, sometimes several times a day.

This is a design oversight which is being and will be addressed and Apple will undoubtedly be discreet on how it handles this on a Mac by Mac basis without alarming the majority who seem to have perfectly functioning MacBooks. The difficulty early on is not theorizing, but actually identifying the cause, since it may continue to show up as time goes by on some MacBooks which are OK now, but may act up later on.
AppleCare is a wise investment, never the less.
     
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Sep 9, 2006, 05:14 AM
 
Originally Posted by monkeybrain
I'm a long time mac user, but I am actually recommending you to buy a pc instead. I've many bad things about sony laptops to though, so wouldn't recommend that. Just get something cheap. Then run ubuntu linux on it, that's what I would have done before I got stuck with this macbook (facing the tiresome task of taking it to apple in Taiwan). The alternative is get a second-hand ibook or powerbook off ebay.
Nothing wrong with that advice at all.
     
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Sep 9, 2006, 03:38 PM
 
MacBook Overheat Analyzed: Recall Brewing?

Apple’s solution to this is to realign the location of the thermometer and cabling on the heatsink so that it does not short circuit. That is why the new heatsink is necessary. In the view of this writer, it warrants a public recall. Any user can produce easily the scenario that causes the MacBook to crash, even with pre-installed applications such as iLife.

This also explains Apple’s recent SMC Update for the MacBook. In short, the ramped up fan is a response to Apple knowing the heatsink is going to expand, and attempts to proactively cool it down to prevent the short circuit.

Unfortunately, as countless users have shown, it is still possible with something as simple as a terminal command, to overheat the CPU. The only solution is to reproduce the crash, call Apple, and have them replace the heatsink.
If this is indeed the root cause of the RSS as first discussed here (English translation), Apple needs to recall every single MacBook out there and not merely ask victims of their crappy designing to call AppleDon'tCare. Unfortunately, as history has shown with flawed Apple machines, it will take enough lawsuit threats and bad PR before something on the scale of a recall is done.

Apple screwed up royally with these Rev. As between this and the myriad of other issues plaguing them and it angers me to see them downplaying their lack of QA once again.

Unfortunately, by the time Apple fully addresses the situation at hand they will already have new product replacements and the cycle will have begun all over again.
     
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Sep 10, 2006, 02:04 AM
 
settle down. **** happens and they are fixing it
     
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Sep 10, 2006, 02:50 AM
 
Originally Posted by Photo678
settle down. **** happens and they are fixing it
Apple can do no wrong, huh?

How long did it take for Apple to finally get off their rocker and admit that there was a problem to begin with while in all of that time censoring forum posts on their discussion boards about this issue?

Do you think Apple would have done something if everyone drank the Flavor-Aid and thought there was nothing wrong with their MacBooks burping?

Sure, they'll fix it..........so as long as you're under warranty and/or AppleCare.

Unfortunately, this is just ONE issue. JUST ONE out of the many things wrong with the MacBooks as of right now. But this is definitely a serious design flaw and the only way for Apple to be in the right with this one is a product recall.

I can understand that if these were sub-$200 bargain basement boxes, but we're talking about cheap Chinese computers branded as BMWs of computing and priced at a premium.

I'm tired of the Rev. A excuse, Apple's attitude and reluctance, and the apologists who will defend Apple to the end.
     
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Sep 10, 2006, 03:54 AM
 
Nobody here has been defending Apple actually.

Apple did screw up. I think everybody is clear on that.

But you seem to have lost it. You should cool off and buy something else that will give you some peace. Nobody here needs your rants and in the end they won't make you feel better either.
     
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Sep 10, 2006, 09:21 AM
 
The funny thing is, some posters make these problems seem like *everyone* has them, when infact, only some people do. Like my MacBook is fine... but my friend's isnt. I have a feeling there are a lot of MacBooks out there that are performing normally. Production errors happen, and there could be a batch (which it looks like) that was put together in a sloppy fashion. This happens in almost any industry, with every company, with any item. It's only a big deal for Apple because they tout themselves as high quality and reliable... so when things go wrong it's "rare" (when, it's obviously not, because they deal with the same things every other company does).
     
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Sep 10, 2006, 06:10 PM
 
Originally Posted by alphasubzero949
Apple can do no wrong, huh?

How long did it take for Apple to finally get off their rocker and admit that there was a problem to begin with
about 3 weeks

Originally Posted by alphasubzero949
Sure, they'll fix it..........so as long as you're under warranty and/or AppleCare.
The machine is less than 6 months old....so yes, you are still under warranty


Originally Posted by alphasubzero949
Unfortunately, this is just ONE issue. JUST ONE out of the many things wrong with the MacBooks as of right now. But this is definitely a serious design flaw and the only way for Apple to be in the right with this one is a product recall.
What else is wrong with it?...discoloration?...oh please...it doesn't effect the function of the comptuer. Nothing else is wrong with these machines. And find me a rev A of ANYTHING that works flawless.....from cars to computers...everything has recalls for things to be fixed.

Originally Posted by alphasubzero949
I can understand that if these were sub-$200 bargain basement boxes, but we're talking about cheap Chinese computers branded as BMWs of computing and priced at a premium.
You call $1000 priced at a premium?...get over yourself

Originally Posted by alphasubzero949
I'm tired of the Rev. A excuse, Apple's attitude and reluctance, and the apologists who will defend Apple to the end.
Nobody is defending anybody, but slapping you back to reality....if by attitude and reluctance you mean fixing the problem....I'm sorry to hear that.



You are mad because you bought brand new technology, and have one small problem with it...none of this warrants a mass recall...the things are safe, easily fixed, and work like a charm.
Mine shuts down, thats the only problem I have with it. It annoys me, but it will be fixed...

If you have beef with apple...go buy a windows machine, i promise you will be much happier with the level of support and admittance of problems in the windows world. Nobody is keeping you on an apple, nobody is forcing you to use an apple, and nobody is keeping you from using windows.

Instead of bashing a company and saying they should be sued, and should order a recall for some minor design flaw, save yourself the time and energy and go outside and play
     
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Sep 11, 2006, 06:06 PM
 
kinda late to the thread but this is whts going on. [im well aware that you guys probably already know.. but its to make me feel better ]
macbook RSS - Google Video


btw Torbocto, your URLs dont work.
     
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Sep 11, 2006, 06:30 PM
 
It hasnt been that long since the release. Notebook architecture is more complicated than that of desktop units, obviously. Also the switch to intel. I say just give it time. There is no such thing as a perfectly functioning machine, let alone within the first few revisions. Apple Im sure is doing their best to get the problem solved, and they havent been giving customers lip about returning/exchanging/fixing machines. They even send you a box to ship it back in, not to mention the turnaround times. Thats way more than any PC company, (including dell, hp and alienware) have ever done for me.

My standpoint:
I am a PC user, have been all my life, never owned so much as an iPod. I am in high school and saving what miniscule income I can for a new Mac, hopfuly a new Macbook, but I will patiently wait until the major problems are resolved.
     
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Sep 11, 2006, 11:09 PM
 
Okay, add me to the list of ppl having the random shutdown problem. Seems worst when running on battery. It won't power up like the video. I had to remove the battery and left it out for a few minutes before I was able to boot it back up again. I am now running from ac adaptor.
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Sep 12, 2006, 01:55 AM
 
yea for me i cant start it up right after it dies.. take a min or two then i can press the button to start.. otherwise im just pressing and nothing is happening.
     
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Sep 12, 2006, 08:40 AM
 
Having this problem as well... sucks.
     
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Sep 12, 2006, 11:20 AM
 
I called Apple Care today, the woman was very nice and we walked through a PRAM reset and re-seating of the RAM. She said try to back up your data and we'll see if that helps with the shutdowns and I'll call you back in about 10 minutes. She called back and at that time I had a shutdown. She is sending a overnight box to me for a depot repair. I'm the owner of a week 19 MB (purchased May 20). I started seeing RSS/RSD mid-August. She quoted 2 weeks as the turn around time because of the battery recall and I'm sure some RSS/RSD issues. I'll keep everyone posted.
     
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Sep 12, 2006, 11:30 AM
 
I thought I'd hop in here.

My BlackBook falls in the 'affected' (knock on wood) serial number range, but I haven't encountered this problem yet. Anyone know if this will be like the iBook G3 issue, and the replacement will be around for awhile in case it does start randomly shutting down?
     
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Sep 12, 2006, 03:07 PM
 
same w/ mac cap i got a box today to ship it to apple and they said it'll take a week to week.5


Brien, im glad everyone isnt affected by this
     
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Sep 12, 2006, 05:13 PM
 
Mine's in the shop. Has been since August 29th. Just got off the phone with the apple store where I left it, the parts have been backordered, they have no idea when they'll come in. This is after they told me "Either Saturday or Monday"

13 days. Almost 2 weeks.

This is the last time I buy a gen-1 Apple product. I had a powerbook for 5 years and didn't even have a single support call. Then I have a macbook for 2 months and it's in the shop for 2 weeks. This is absolutely horrible support. "5 to 7 days" has turned into 13. I get one phone call, telling me it'll be ready in the next two days, and then no calls to tell me anything.

This experience is edging on Ford-like. It will become completely ford-like if I get my macbook back, grease smuged, dented, and with the original problem not fixed.

I should not have to call. They have my email address. They have a web site. They should be calling me, or emailing me, with status updates every time the status changes. Instead I have to dig through the apple store's menu, pick the right option to talk to a real person (becuase if you choose "repair status" it sends to you to Applecare, who tell you NOTHING AT ALL besides an automated "in repair").

This is exceptionally frustrating and well below my expectations.
     
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Sep 13, 2006, 10:49 AM
 
** BIG FYI **
I'm not sure if this has happened to anyone else but ever since I did the PRAM reset and reseated by RAM the RSS/RSD is WORSE, I get them more now than ever before.

Can't wait for the fix.

I've decided though once it's fixed I'm giving it to my wife (her Dell is about to die) and I'm getting me a Quad Xenon Mac Pro!!

Keeping you posted...
     
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Sep 13, 2006, 01:05 PM
 
Hm.. PRAM reset and reseat RAM. Still having sudden death syndrome, even on life support (AC power).
Bush Tax Cuts == Job Killer
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2.21 million jobs were LOST after 2 years of Bush Tax Cuts.
     
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Sep 13, 2006, 05:18 PM
 
Just called the Apple store again.

Still no parts.
Still no ETA on when parts will come in.
Still have to call them to get status because
Still no status updates on the web site.

They won't replace the laptop until it's been in the shop for 30 days. They'd be happy to give me the laptop back until parts arrive, however given that it shuts itself off randomly, it's useless to me.

Maybe I'll go buy something else and start using it and drop this one onto ebay or something. This is just ridiculous. I hear the new Vaios are nice. They're infinitely better than the "no laptop" that I have now.
     
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Sep 13, 2006, 07:08 PM
 
so I shipped my MacBook to Memphis on the 8th . . . it says they receive it on the 11th . . . . part is on hold and it's still there . . . today is the 13th . . . . sucks to be me right now
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Sep 13, 2006, 09:31 PM
 
i dropped mine off at the DHL today, should be here by next fri-monday according to them.
     
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Sep 14, 2006, 11:52 AM
 
** UPDATE **
Memphis got my unit this morning and then was immediately put on hold awaiting needed parts... I expected this though... That Mac Pro is looking more inviting every day without my MB.
     
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Sep 14, 2006, 12:42 PM
 
ditto to mac caps post.. except that last part.
     
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Sep 14, 2006, 02:36 PM
 
Sent mine in tuesday(12th) morning, it went to memphis, got it back this morning(14th) was pretty excited to have it back so fast especially after reading of them taking several weeks. But the case is fairly scratched in several spots, trackpad button is unresponsive on the left side and the button has some black marks on it that will not come off, the plastic "protecting" the "new" palmrest area was creased and looked really old, and to top it all off I turned it off and then back on and the machine is now doing the funny multi colored line thing instead of displaying anything. Frustrating.

I called and they are going to ship it back to memphis tomorrow morning(friday 15th) and said it will be back monday(18th). He said flextronics will set it aside and work on it seperately and carefully and they are replacing pretty much the whole thing. I asked for a complete replacement but he said they are backlogged 3 weeks which I said I didn't care but he wouldn't do it.
     
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Sep 14, 2006, 03:41 PM
 
Originally Posted by joebells
Sent mine in tuesday(12th) morning, it went to memphis, got it back this morning(14th) was pretty excited to have it back so fast especially after reading of them taking several weeks. But the case is fairly scratched in several spots, trackpad button is unresponsive on the left side and the button has some black marks on it that will not come off, the plastic "protecting" the "new" palmrest area was creased and looked really old, and to top it all off I turned it off and then back on and the machine is now doing the funny multi colored line thing instead of displaying anything. Frustrating.

I called and they are going to ship it back to memphis tomorrow morning(friday 15th) and said it will be back monday(18th). He said flextronics will set it aside and work on it seperately and carefully and they are replacing pretty much the whole thing. I asked for a complete replacement but he said they are backlogged 3 weeks which I said I didn't care but he wouldn't do it.
Wow, that stinks!
Who the HE double-hockey-sticks is flextronics?
     
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Sep 14, 2006, 04:00 PM
 
i ain't gonna hate . . but WTF . . . . he sends it in the 12th and gets it back the 14th? I send mine in on the 8th and I'm still waiting?

where do you live? IN memphis?

this bites!
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Sep 14, 2006, 04:42 PM
 
PA

Flextronics is some company apple has partnered with to do repairs
     
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Sep 14, 2006, 07:51 PM
 
the delay could be due to different configs or something similar
     
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Sep 14, 2006, 09:38 PM
 
to the guys that sent in your MB for repairs, on your DHL label that you peeled off what does the 'problem description' say.. jw

mine has 601- overheat
     
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Sep 14, 2006, 10:13 PM
 
688 no power/no light
     
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Sep 15, 2006, 12:52 PM
 
688 - No Power/No Light
     
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Sep 15, 2006, 02:23 PM
 
ditto - 688 - No Power/No Light
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Sep 15, 2006, 03:12 PM
 
688 - No Power/No Light for me also.
     
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Sep 15, 2006, 03:33 PM
 
Apple has my MacBook right now. This is the second time I've sent it in for the RSD thing. My current status(as of yesterday) is waiting on a part. It seems like they've figured out what's wrong now. So, I'm hoping this is the last time I have to send it in.
     
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Sep 15, 2006, 03:46 PM
 
Originally Posted by b11051973
Apple has my MacBook right now. This is the second time I've sent it in for the RSD thing. My current status(as of yesterday) is waiting on a part. It seems like they've figured out what's wrong now. So, I'm hoping this is the last time I have to send it in.
When did you send it in the first time (date range)?
Thanks!
     
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Sep 15, 2006, 03:54 PM
 
I dropped it off on Tuesday August 29th. I got it back 2 days later. It worked fine until last Friday September 8th. I got another RSD Friday morning and immediately called Apple CS. They didn't even want to troubleshoot. They went straight to sending me a box, which I got Monday.

Since I got it back 2 days later the first time, I went and checked their repair status thing on apple.com. It said they were waiting for parts. A discussion group on apple's support site has a post saying they got the parts in yesterday or something. I'm hoping to get mine back early next week.
     
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Sep 15, 2006, 08:32 PM
 
I also took my machine in on Aug 29th. I've called Apple Care twice and both times they told me parts were coming in and I would have my machine back in three days. Neither time frames were met and over two weeks later I'm still without a machine. Really burns me up that the Apple Care people would lie to me twice promising me the parts would be in the next day and I would have my laptop back in three days.

The apple store has supposedly escalated it twice. I'm also a ProCare member (evidently a waste of money when it comes to repair help). They told me that there has already been one system revision to take care of the Random Shut Down problem. They told me it's just the early MacBook machines that have the problem. I bought mine in May.

Just thought I would pass along my experience as well.

     
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Sep 15, 2006, 08:41 PM
 
I sent mine in on the 14th.....it arrived in TX on the 15th.....the apple site says it was shipped back on the 16th. Curiously the fed-ex tracking says it was shpped on the 15th.

Less than a day to fix it.

Besides dealling with the sudden shutdown problem I asked them to fix the trackpad button as it was unresponsive on the left side.

It's suppose to arrive monday. I hope its accually fixed.

After reading the post from joebells I am very nervous. I have to say that I am extremely pissed off that they put out a product that has most of it's major components break down in two months. Those bleeping comercials are a huge lie. I use my mac for video performance and don't see how I'm suppose to trust it after all this.

Crossing fingers.
     
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Sep 15, 2006, 09:39 PM
 
yeah I definately don't have much confidence in it now. I kind of hope something is wrong with it when it comes back as the guy promised me I would get a replacement. I really don't like having a hard drive that has had its power cut from it like that so many times.
     
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Sep 17, 2006, 02:47 AM
 
So I thought I could add my own sudden shutdown experience so far.

My BlackBook started shutting down randomly a few days ago. Obviously there was some kind of temperature threshold for it to happen. Interestingly, it happened a lot earlier if it was hooked up to my 20" ACD (internal screen off) than if it was running with just the internal screen. Guess the GPU really adds to the heat.

Anyway, I called my local Apple dealer and he immediately knew what I was talking about and asked me to bring it in. I went over there, showed it to him and about 30 min later he had completely convinced himself that it was the sudden shutdown issue. He told me he had registered my MB for warranty repair. Obviously replacement parts from Apple were backordered pretty badly (no wonder) and he wasn't sure when they'd arrive. Maybe in a few days, but maybe not until the end of the month. But he offered that I could take my MB back home until he gets the parts and that he would then call me so I could bring it in again. He said, if I bring it in the morning, I could have have it back in the afternoon.

Now in my book that's very good service. No screwing around, no waisted time, no holding on the phone with some customer rep. Just efficient and friendly service. I'm positively surprised!
     
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Sep 17, 2006, 08:46 AM
 
I have had the RSS problem for a while now. I can't be without my computer for long, so I am waiting on parts to show up before I take my MacBook in. (And there are MANY, MANY people waiting on parts... I think the problem is much more widespread than some of you think!)

Anyway, in the meantime, I thought it would be worth sharing experiences on how to work around the problem. I've found I rarely suffer the problem if I:

(1) Boot up the MacBook by pressing and holding the on/off button until the power/sleep light goes to fast blinking... when you release the on/off button, you'll get a long loud tone... and then it boots up. In this mode, I've found RSS events to be quite rare.

(2) Let it sit for 60 seconds or so before you login and start using it... if I login too quick, I sometimes get a quick RSS.

(3) Go to System Preferences... Energy Saver... and set it to NEVER sleep. Its okay for the display and drive to sleep... just never let the MacBook go to sleep.

(4) If you need to move your MacBook, shut it down or leave it on... don't put it to sleep.

Going on battery vs. cord does not seem to be an issue as long as either way I never let it sleep. I think when it wakes from sleep it goes back into "normal mode", at which point I will typically experience a RSS within 30s, but almost certainly within 5 minutes.

Fortunately, Macs boot up pretty fast... so, not having SLEEP functionality is annoying, but not devastating like the RSS problem.

Hope that helps some of you inflicted by this problem.
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Sep 17, 2006, 09:39 AM
 
Thats alot more wear and tear on the hard drive though
     
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Sep 17, 2006, 11:03 AM
 
Originally Posted by joebells
Thats alot more wear and tear on the hard drive though
What's a lot more wear and tear on the hard drive?
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Sep 17, 2006, 04:30 PM
 
everytime you start the computer it has to load the os from the disk and thats alot of unneeded reading of the hard drive that apple is causing you to do when you just put it to sleep it doesn't have to read or write to the hard drive really.
     
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Sep 18, 2006, 06:15 PM
 
Just spoke with Daniel - Product Specialist ID# 41435 - about my Macbook which was shipped from my office on 9.8.06 that my MB parts are now in and is currently being repaired. It will arrive back in my hands in "3-5 Business Days."

Normally, I wouldn't call out a Product Specialist like this, but the prick had probably one of the worst attitudes I had to deal with. He was condescending and talked as if I was completely wasting his time. I wasn't looking for a replacement, but just some assurances that Apple wouldn't be keeping my MacBook for too long of a time. I even asked him "if you were me, how long would you give Apple before raising a fuss?" . . his response "i, personally have had one of my computers in for a month before . . . . but I dunno . . i can't answer that question" . . . . . Apple needs to do something about this guy for sure!
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Sep 18, 2006, 08:13 PM
 
Good news...

My Apple Store got the new set of parts in today (logic board, top case, and heat sink); I brought it in and they got me fixed up while I had lunch and did some shopping (many thanks go to my Apple Store).

Bad news...

Within 3 hours, I had another Random Sudden Shutdown.
Sooo, Apple doesn't have the problem figured out quite yet.
( Last edited by kennedy; Sep 18, 2006 at 09:44 PM. )
Mac Nut since before color Macs, working for UT Austin Microcenter supporting Mac users
     
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Sep 18, 2006, 10:00 PM
 
are you going to ask for a replacement or take it back.?


btw are we entitled to a replacement after a # of repairs and it still didnt get fixed?

anyway sorry to hear man
     
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Sep 19, 2006, 02:37 AM
 
Amru - from my many discussions with Applecare, I've learned that for the ones that consistently have to send their computers in - they are called "loopers" - and you do qualify for a replacement after so many repairs. I talked to the applecare product specialist today and he basically told me that if this latest repair doesn't work . . . i should be in line to get a new one. . . . . but i'm doing a lot of assuming here . . . and as the great movie Under Seige 2 taught us . . .assumptions are the mother of all *uckups
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