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You are here: MacNN Forums > Hardware - Troubleshooting and Discussion > Mac Notebooks > Pismo: 7 years and still running

Pismo: 7 years and still running
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Feb 24, 2007, 02:44 PM
 
Hi there,

Hereby I would like to make public my laptop purchase frustration, inspired by the thread that talks about waiting Leopard to buy a MBP I aloud my self to start this thread, please forgive me if it is out of topic, duplicated or spoken to dead on other threads or forums, if that would be the case, lock it.

My purchase is delayed waiting a innovative true mobile laptop solution from Apple. I know... dreaming like many others and reading each day rumor sites for recovery, escaped 3 times from going back to the dark side of the force but I still have some hopes...

Innovative true Mobile laptop would be mainly very light in weight and provide very long battery life. Maybe I'm still dreaming or out of date or becoming to old but for me is much more important to have e.g. GSM connectivity instead of speakers, the lack of a UltraSuper recording DVD drive and less warmer circuitry.

I decided to buy a Pismo because it provided long hours battery life, a 1024x768 screen and 8 Mb VRAM; it was very very thin, light in weight, RAM could be expanded to 1 Gbyte RAM and cache memory was 1 Mbyte.

Seven years ago that was innovative among other laptops...

Any thoughts?

Best Regards
( Last edited by darkmatter; Feb 24, 2007 at 03:22 PM. Reason: Adding tech. spec.)
     
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Feb 24, 2007, 02:58 PM
 
u can still find the 1.5g 12" powerbook (i bought one several months ago!).
closest to what i wanted, while i wait (& wait...) for a 12" mbp.

otherwise, what else is there to do? get a macbook, or move to the 15" mbp, or...revisit the darkside (which i will not do).

meanwhile, i am as happy as can be with the powerbook, which works great with all my apps...
"At first, there was Nothing. Then Nothing inverted itself and became Something.
And that is what you all are: inverted Nothings...with potential" (Sun Ra)
     
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Feb 24, 2007, 03:14 PM
 
WTF? Your post doesn't make much sense.

The Pismo is heavier and thicker than the 12" PowerBook for 13" MacBook.

What is an "UltraSuper recording DVD drive"? You're talking nonsense.
     
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Feb 24, 2007, 03:52 PM
 
Originally Posted by mduell View Post
WTF? Your post doesn't make much sense.

The Pismo is heavier and thicker than the 12" PowerBook for 13" MacBook.

What is an "UltraSuper recording DVD drive"? You're talking nonsense.

Yes, you are right, remember I'm frustrated and maybe clinically ill.

Seven year old Pismo average weight is 6.1 lbs, height 1.7" inches, screen is 14". Those days many manufactures still used smaller 800x600 screens, as much as I remember none 8 Mb VRAM and 1 Mb cache was a dream on PC mobiles, that was innovation 7 years ago.

By writing "UltraSuper recording DVD drive" I'm trying to be a bit ironical. I think 8.5 GByte Optical Recording technology could be used better in desktops and not on mobile computers.

It's just my .02 cent opinion, have a nice weekend

By the way, happy birthday Pismo
     
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Feb 24, 2007, 08:41 PM
 
My best goes out to your Pismo and hopefully Apple will keep G3 support for Leopard.

Sony (remember, "dark side") came out with a ultraportable (VGN-TXN15P/W) that has a nine hour (that's right, nine hours of battery life. I want a 12 inch MacBook Pro with a 10 hour battery life.
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Feb 24, 2007, 10:18 PM
 
Ironical is not a word. And if you feel Apple still hasn't released anything with better value than Pismo, you should stop using Apple products. I owned a Pismo 500, and let me tell you, my MacBook Pro puts it to utter shame. Oh, and it cost over $1000 less too. Now, there was a period of time (during the Tibook era) that I might agree that it would not be worth upgrading. I put it off for a while before buying my Powerbook 1.25GHZ. But even that machine was a real step up. Now, the difference is incredible.
( Last edited by SDW2001; Feb 25, 2007 at 09:13 AM. )
     
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Feb 26, 2007, 11:29 PM
 
I never had the monies to buy a NEW portable, and I just love the Pismo so much... As long as I just ask him to do Web, Mail and Office, it's peachy.

Check my specs, bit of a hot-rod going... of course, a bit flaky nowadays, especially when waking up from sleep, but that's graybeards for you.

I'm saving up for a Santa Rosa MBP and Leopard.
My Mac is a Pismo G4/550: 1GB RAM, 40GB 5.4k, Airport, DVD-R, and still black, silent and curvaceous!
     
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Feb 26, 2007, 11:33 PM
 
yeah, while the pismo was a nice machine, it's had it's day. A macbook blows it out of the water for 1100$. My MBP is the most innovative machine i've ever used. I'm continually astounded that it's a laptop.
     
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Feb 27, 2007, 09:02 AM
 
I am presently finishing and publishing my book written on Framemaker under OS 9. After 6 years my Pismo has strange black-outs possibly relating to the L2-cache. I sincerely hope to finish my project without having to convert to another computer just for proofreading and finlaizing the pdf. Awful as it is Framemaker is Classic only. So am really depending on the Pismo (check other thread).

After my book is done I will excitedly check the market, but will always remember the Pismo with great respect and maybe continue using it, depending on how these black-outs develop.

Felix
2007 MacBook Pro 2.4 4 GByte RAM 320/7000 HD
2000 Powerbook Pismo G3 500 MHz, 640 MByte RAM, 40 GByte HD, Airport, NewerTech Battery, integrated DVD/CD-R(W) running Mac OS 10.4.11
     
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Feb 27, 2007, 11:07 AM
 
Hi, thanks for all answers and opinions.

SDW2001, it's an adjective sorry I couldn't find the right word...

Grüezi Felix, I wrote my Diplomarbeit mit meinem Pismo (LaTex, XEmacs, Keynote, etc)
I use it also to write programms ( C, C++, Matlab and Java )

Best Regards
     
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Feb 27, 2007, 12:39 PM
 
Originally Posted by darkmatter View Post
Hi, thanks for all answers and opinions.

SDW2001, it's an adjective sorry I couldn't find the right word...

Grüezi Felix, I wrote my Diplomarbeit mit meinem Pismo (LaTex, XEmacs, Keynote, etc)
I use it also to write programms ( C, C++, Matlab and Java )

Best Regards
I was just having some fun with you.
     
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Feb 27, 2007, 01:31 PM
 
Hi SDW2001, impersonal as the internet can be. I just couldn't find the right word
please! keep having fun

I agree with you. MacBook(Pro)s outperform Pismos and MacBooks(Pro)s are innovative but there are other mobile computers on the market (such as that above mentioned Sony) that are also very innovative, seven years ago Apple was the only one, e.g. one of many options to buy a PC laptop was an IBM with 2.5 MByte VRAM.

It would be interesting to know why Apple was so CPU conservative during the years TiBook era, G4 processors were slow and hot and no matter that, Apple had (still has) success. Suddenly the CPU offer is based on the quickest, most expensive and/or energy consuming CPUs on the market. From my point of view it would be nice from Apple to offer us mobile computers with slower C2Ds, but maybe that is not profitable and/or more expensive. What about HardDisks... 5k vs 7k RPM?

It would be also interesting to know how many (and how long) MacBook(Pro) users use the recording capabilities of a Superdrive while being mobile. For me a Superdrive is a mechanically complex, energy consuming, and somehow heavy piece of hardware for a mobile computer, but sure, there are reasons (for me unknow) to include such a drive.

Very Best Regards

PD: Just an additional small comment, as an Apple user I don't care about a 166 Mhz CPU speed difference, on the other hand I do care also if the computer color is black or white.
( Last edited by darkmatter; Feb 27, 2007 at 04:13 PM. )
     
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Feb 27, 2007, 10:35 PM
 
Blacklit keyboard, innovative?
Less than 1" thin, innovative?
Ambient Light Sensor, innovative?
Sudden Motion Sensor, innovative?
Multi-finger Track Pad, innovative?
FW800, innovative?
Magnet Power, innovative?
Built-in iSight, innovative?

These are just one of the many innovative features added since Pismo... and not including those higher technology devices in it such as DL SuperDrive, Faster Intel chips, Faster Display chips... So?
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Feb 27, 2007, 10:43 PM
 
lets not forget the remote, OS, or the inards of it.
but i agree i would like to see some of those patents apple has been rolling out lately to come to life.
     
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Feb 27, 2007, 11:56 PM
 
Originally Posted by darkmatter View Post
Hi SDW2001, impersonal as the internet can be. I just couldn't find the right word
please! keep having fun

I agree with you. MacBook(Pro)s outperform Pismos and MacBooks(Pro)s are innovative but there are other mobile computers on the market (such as that above mentioned Sony) that are also very innovative, seven years ago Apple was the only one, e.g. one of many options to buy a PC laptop was an IBM with 2.5 MByte VRAM.

It would be interesting to know why Apple was so CPU conservative during the years TiBook era, G4 processors were slow and hot and no matter that, Apple had (still has) success. Suddenly the CPU offer is based on the quickest, most expensive and/or energy consuming CPUs on the market. From my point of view it would be nice from Apple to offer us mobile computers with slower C2Ds, but maybe that is not profitable and/or more expensive. What about HardDisks... 5k vs 7k RPM?

It would be also interesting to know how many (and how long) MacBook(Pro) users use the recording capabilities of a Superdrive while being mobile. For me a Superdrive is a mechanically complex, energy consuming, and somehow heavy piece of hardware for a mobile computer, but sure, there are reasons (for me unknow) to include such a drive.

Very Best Regards

PD: Just an additional small comment, as an Apple user I don't care about a 166 Mhz CPU speed difference, on the other hand I do care also if the computer color is black or white.
I'm still not really sure where you are going. I disagree that the Pismo was light years ahead of the competition. Other portables had the Rage Mobility chip shortly after Pismo got it. People were actually complaining that Apple didn't go far enough with the upgrade when it came out. It was really just a speed bumped Lombard with a better graphics chip.

Concerning the Tibook, well they weren't "conservative" at all. That's what was available in the PPC realm. They went Intel for performance. They were held back for years with the G4 and the G5 was both too hot and not progressing fast enough to keep performance equal to Wintel.

As for the SuperDrive, I really disagree. Battery life is better on my MBP than on my Powerbook, and I don't think that putting a combo drive in it would really make that much of a difference. It's a little confusing, because on one hand you want better performance and on the other, you seem to want fewer features.

In the final analysis, I just don't see your point. If you feel a Wintel is better, get one. Apple's pro laptops perform very well and are a better buy than they ever have been. I'm just not sure what you're waiting for.
     
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Feb 28, 2007, 12:20 AM
 
Take my SuperDrive away and I'm gonna have a problem...

I bought a MacBook Pro because it IS everything. I have a laptop that outguns many people's desktops and that is exactly what I want. I want one computer that does it all. I want it in one package and I don't want to have to go connect a bunch of extra devices (and carry them with me because I might need them).

I'm actually having problems because I can't get a big enough HD for my laptop. I want a minimum 300 Gig 5400 RPM drive. I'd like either slightly larger or a 7200 RPM but I'm trying to be somewhat realistic. Give me that and I can have all my data, all the time.

I don't compromise on my purchases. I'm on my fourth laptop now. In college I bought a 250 MHz G3. Then replaced it with a 500 MHz G3, then a 1 GHz G4 Ti and finally updated when they went to Core Duo. Realistically I think the number of people who will actually buy an ultra-portable device is way to small to bother with. I'd rather see more diversity in their desktop line, especially since one of our purchasers keeps buying iMacs when in the long run a Mac Pro will be a better machine.
     
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Feb 28, 2007, 12:40 AM
 
for a small laptop, not having a DVD drive is a nice option as it can save a lot of space. i'd forgotten about the magsafe power or trackpad improvements. I've already tripped over my magsafe 2 or 3 times.. each time, i wince and then realize that it's no big deal.
     
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Feb 28, 2007, 03:22 AM
 
How about a numeric keypad on the 17" MBP ???
I know that it can be done using the function keys and I know there are external USB ones but how hard would it be to integrate one or at least add it as a BTO option?!?
     
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Feb 28, 2007, 03:47 AM
 
How'za 'bout wireless networking . . . did the Pismo *include* a wi-fi (Airport) card . . . USB 2.0 is here now, too . . .

darkmatter, according to your namesake, might I suggest a Black MacBook?
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Feb 28, 2007, 07:15 AM
 
Originally Posted by JEB View Post
How'za 'bout wireless networking . . . did the Pismo *include* a wi-fi (Airport) card . . . USB 2.0 is here now, too . . .
Pismos were iirc not only the first Apple laptops, but the first laptops at all with built in W-LAN functionality.
And Firewire over USB2 any given day.

PB.
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Feb 28, 2007, 08:46 AM
 
Hi, thanks for all the feedback

Blacklit keyboard, innovative? indeed inovative but when I work while being mobile I try to avoid darkness. It may help business travelers during long comfortable flights, also DJs and scientists inside darkrooms, but the last are normally fixed inside a room.

Ambient Light Sensor, innovative? an aditional piece of hardware to provide feedback to the backlit keyboard functions. It's cool.

Less than 1" thin, innovative? The height of MacBook(Pro) is not less than 1" . They are heavy too. That could be innovative.

Sudden Motion Sensor, innovative? Innovative and keeps data secure, introduced 2 years ago.

Multi-finger Track Pad, innovative? Innovative and very cool. Many other manufacturers implemented similar functionality. I find Apple's is the best, it's simple.

FW800, innovative? Yes indeed, kill FW400; and add a piece of cable and a external hard disk to the carry weight. A Memory stick keeps my on the go data backup and I don't carry everywhere tons of data. The build in hard disk capacity can be as big as technology aloud.

Magnet Power, innovative? Yes indeed, what about going back to the blueprints of the power adapter and make it smaller or even disappear it? There is a niche for innovation.

Built-in iSight, innovative? I need an external adapter or device to get enough bandwidth for video while being mobile or try to find and run to a hotspot

Remote? While mobile I tend to be in front of my mobile computer, while mobile I don't watch movies and to hear music I use a click wheel. I'm getting old

SDW2001:
Pismo was (it anymore is!) in its days an innovative mobile computer and actually it's case desing started with the Lombard. I'm agree Pismo was a better Lombard with FW ports and 100 MHz system bus. The cooling systems of Lombards and Pismos were quiet. In my case the cooling fan only switches on while processing heavy amounts of data during long time. They didn't include a floppy disk drive. The noisy HD could be replaced with a better quality one.

The omission of a SuperDrive and any other type of optical recording technology (CD-DVD-BD-DB+-±/ RWXYZ) could be offered in one of Apple mobile computers. I ask my self why they don't do it, really don't know exactly why... the market and the costs may be a factor.

What I want is a fewer CPU performance for extended battery life (10 or more hours to forget recharging), weight reduction, lower temperature (in this days a luxus) . Build in mobile high data bandwidth and related new technologies for video conferencing.

I also try to say that Apple was once innovative with the Pismo and I would love to buy an Apple mobile computer 5 years ahead competition

I think I'm getting old...

Need to go now, have a nice day
( Last edited by darkmatter; Feb 28, 2007 at 08:57 AM. )
     
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Feb 28, 2007, 08:51 AM
 
Originally Posted by JEB View Post
How'za 'bout wireless networking . . . did the Pismo *include* a wi-fi (Airport) card . . . USB 2.0 is here now, too . . .

darkmatter, according to your namesake, might I suggest a Black MacBook?
Jeb, I still wait a bit
     
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Feb 28, 2007, 08:52 AM
 
Other than the ability to run windows, what does this MBP do (faster) that the Pismo could not do?

I think the only new capability is this built-in isight camera.

The Pismo was (and still is) a classic - it really captured the current moment of hardware design. And with its expansion capabilities, it was able to stay current for a lot longer than other machines of its era.

IMHO, the first real replacement for the Pismo (i.e. a machine that had most of the Pismo capabilities, plus was faster) was the PB17. The TiPB's poor airport reception made it unusual enough times that I consider that to be a deal breaker.

I'd like to see a tablet-based mac -- or maybe just a bigger version of the iPhone.

Until then, these current laptops are excellent, while also reminding us sometimes that the motto 'if it ain't broke, don't fix it' is really wise when it comes to electronics.
     
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Feb 28, 2007, 09:56 AM
 
Originally Posted by SEkker View Post
Other than the ability to run windows, what does this MBP do (faster) that the Pismo could not do?

I think the only new capability is this built-in isight camera.

The Pismo was (and still is) a classic - it really captured the current moment of hardware design. And with its expansion capabilities, it was able to stay current for a lot longer than other machines of its era.

IMHO, the first real replacement for the Pismo (i.e. a machine that had most of the Pismo capabilities, plus was faster) was the PB17. The TiPB's poor airport reception made it unusual enough times that I consider that to be a deal breaker.

I'd like to see a tablet-based mac -- or maybe just a bigger version of the iPhone.

Until then, these current laptops are excellent, while also reminding us sometimes that the motto 'if it ain't broke, don't fix it' is really wise when it comes to electronics.
Uh...try MUCH faster. Much better graphics. Slot loading Super Drive. Better sound. It's better in every respect.
     
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Feb 28, 2007, 10:00 AM
 
Originally Posted by darkmatter View Post
Hi, thanks for all the feedback

Blacklit keyboard, innovative? indeed inovative but when I work while being mobile I try to avoid darkness. It may help business travelers during long comfortable flights, also DJs and scientists inside darkrooms, but the last are normally fixed inside a room.

Ambient Light Sensor, innovative? an aditional piece of hardware to provide feedback to the backlit keyboard functions. It's cool.

Less than 1" thin, innovative? The height of MacBook(Pro) is not less than 1" . They are heavy too. That could be innovative.

Sudden Motion Sensor, innovative? Innovative and keeps data secure, introduced 2 years ago.

Multi-finger Track Pad, innovative? Innovative and very cool. Many other manufacturers implemented similar functionality. I find Apple's is the best, it's simple.

FW800, innovative? Yes indeed, kill FW400; and add a piece of cable and a external hard disk to the carry weight. A Memory stick keeps my on the go data backup and I don't carry everywhere tons of data. The build in hard disk capacity can be as big as technology aloud.

Magnet Power, innovative? Yes indeed, what about going back to the blueprints of the power adapter and make it smaller or even disappear it? There is a niche for innovation.

Built-in iSight, innovative? I need an external adapter or device to get enough bandwidth for video while being mobile or try to find and run to a hotspot

Remote? While mobile I tend to be in front of my mobile computer, while mobile I don't watch movies and to hear music I use a click wheel. I'm getting old

SDW2001:
Pismo was (it anymore is!) in its days an innovative mobile computer and actually it's case desing started with the Lombard. I'm agree Pismo was a better Lombard with FW ports and 100 MHz system bus. The cooling systems of Lombards and Pismos were quiet. In my case the cooling fan only switches on while processing heavy amounts of data during long time. They didn't include a floppy disk drive. The noisy HD could be replaced with a better quality one.

The omission of a SuperDrive and any other type of optical recording technology (CD-DVD-BD-DB+-±/ RWXYZ) could be offered in one of Apple mobile computers. I ask my self why they don't do it, really don't know exactly why... the market and the costs may be a factor.

What I want is a fewer CPU performance for extended battery life (10 or more hours to forget recharging), weight reduction, lower temperature (in this days a luxus) . Build in mobile high data bandwidth and related new technologies for video conferencing.

I also try to say that Apple was once innovative with the Pismo and I would love to buy an Apple mobile computer 5 years ahead competition

I think I'm getting old...

Need to go now, have a nice day
Due respect, you're starting to annoy and sound like a troll.

There are numerous laptops on the market. You either think the MBP is the best option or you don't. IF you find a Wintel with more features and better value, then just buy it. Your points about "innovation" are moot. Who cares...you still have a choice between company X Y and Z's products. Choose what's best for you. The Pismo was a nice machine....I know, I owned one. But really...I just don't know what you want in a machine. What do you want it to do...float? Make you breakfast? Give you free porn? Seriously...it's a computer. It also comes with the best OS in the world and great performance. If that's not enough, keep using your Pismo for another 7 years. Maybe by then you'll be able to buy something "revolutionary" from Apple.
     
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Feb 28, 2007, 10:25 AM
 
I too would like the ac adaptor to disappear. My first laptop, an old Toshiba 5000 something iirc back in '94, had no ac adaptor and the cd rom drive was external. I seriously think Apple should introduce an ultraportable with external optical drive, similar to the Dell 300m series. That's just my thoughts tho.
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Feb 28, 2007, 10:44 AM
 
I, for one, would like to see the return of the removeable hard drive in some form or fashion. Besides running short on disk space, I'm always needing to test things in multiple OSes, or conduct training sessions in different OS versions. And a firewire or USB disk works OK when you laptop is on a desk, but not when it is on your lap or on an airplane tray. Even the hanging-out flash drives--if they were large enough in capacity but smaller in size--still can easily broken on the road since they hang out. It's hard to throw a laptop in a case with one still inserted.

Perhaps it is not possible to have anything like the Wallstreet bays in the new ultra-thin designs. And regardless, Apple would have to develop something more secure--such as adminstrator password before such a drive could be removed.

But I'd like the ability to fully insert storage capacity into a slot, such as something flash-based. Or is the MacBook Pro's ExpressCard slot showing any promise in this area? I haven't seen any such products.
     
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Feb 28, 2007, 10:49 AM
 
are you on crack ?

The Pismo_

The current 15inch is lighter weight and way faster than any Pismo ever was_

Apple hasn't marketed it with the word "innovative" - so get over that_

But if you would like to talk about innovation -

- how about the SMS [sudden motion sensor] built into the proline since the last versions of the PowerBooks and into the current offering of the MBPs ? -- this allows the spinning hard drive to be locked and motionless in a fraction of time - if you end up dropping it or knocking it off something_ NO NOT INNOVATIVE AT ALL - EVEN THOUGH NO OTHER 'MAINSTREAM' MAKER BUILDS THIS IN_

- i don't know about you - but the backlit keyboard [which again for some reason does not show up on many PC versions] comes in very handy when I'm messing with stuff that involves the keyboard beyond merely typing text_ I DON'T KNOW - KINDA INNOVATIVE TO ME_ Pismo didn't have this_

The Pismo didn't have:
- 15 or 17 inch screen
- bluetooth
- firewire 400 or 800 [most PCs don't think this is necessary]
- [most PC laptops still come with an optional floppy drive] when was the last time a Mac Laptop had a Floppy Drive ?
- the magSafe power adapter [no this isn't innovative at all]
- display support for 4 million concurrent colors [yeah the Pismo was awesome]
- resolution 1440 x 900 [MBP has nothing on the Pismo]
- did I forget wireless-N -- where are all the PCs supporting this ? and the Pismo ?
- Gigabit Ethernet [hmm - was this around when the Pismo was out - I think not]
- do you even know what a Core 2 Duo processor is ? To break it down for your simple mind it's basically a dual-processor and wait - it gets even better they put this dual-processor in a laptop_ Wow - no this wouldn't be innovative enough for me to switch from my Pismo either - you're right_
- OS X [any version] which runs natively on the MBP/Powerbook G4s - No_ No innovation there - where'd the Pismo leave off natively - maybe System 8.1 ? DAMN - I wish I could run System 8 again - that was the best operating system_

The point being - even the slowest mainstream PDA on the market currently is more innovative than the Pismo_

In car terms -
That's like comparing a Chevey Corvette C6 to a 1952 Studebaker and saying the Corvette isn't innovative enough for me to get rid of the old car and upgrade to a the new one currently on the market_
     
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Feb 28, 2007, 11:17 AM
 
I had a Wallstreet a few years back but sold it when I bought a dual 500 G4. A year later I bought an 8ooMHz iBook w/ Combo and last year I bought a new MBP.

Just sold the MBP and replaced the HDD in the iBook with a 7200rpm 60GB Hitachi.

I really miss, in order :
1) Multi-touch trackpad
2) Mag-Safe
3) Backlit keyboard
4) Faster

I feel that the MBP I sold was the best portable I've ever owned. I'll be getting a new MBP, smallest size available, when Leopard comes out.
     
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Feb 28, 2007, 11:24 AM
 
Well... I happen to be using an iBook Tangerine running OS9... And I'm quite happy.
I don't need a Chicklet KB, internal DVD drive, or super slim design.
AND it's orange. I want an orange MacBook!
     
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Feb 28, 2007, 11:34 AM
 
Originally Posted by UberFu View Post
are you on crack ?

The Pismo_

The current 15inch is lighter weight and way faster than any Pismo ever was_

Apple hasn't marketed it with the word "innovative" - so get over that_

But if you would like to talk about innovation -

- how about the SMS [sudden motion sensor] built into the proline since the last versions of the PowerBooks and into the current offering of the MBPs ? -- this allows the spinning hard drive to be locked and motionless in a fraction of time - if you end up dropping it or knocking it off something_ NO NOT INNOVATIVE AT ALL - EVEN THOUGH NO OTHER 'MAINSTREAM' MAKER BUILDS THIS IN_

- i don't know about you - but the backlit keyboard [which again for some reason does not show up on many PC versions] comes in very handy when I'm messing with stuff that involves the keyboard beyond merely typing text_ I DON'T KNOW - KINDA INNOVATIVE TO ME_ Pismo didn't have this_

The Pismo didn't have:
- 15 or 17 inch screen
- bluetooth
- firewire 400 or 800 [most PCs don't think this is necessary]
- [most PC laptops still come with an optional floppy drive] when was the last time a Mac Laptop had a Floppy Drive ?
- the magSafe power adapter [no this isn't innovative at all]
- display support for 4 million concurrent colors [yeah the Pismo was awesome]
- resolution 1440 x 900 [MBP has nothing on the Pismo]
- did I forget wireless-N -- where are all the PCs supporting this ? and the Pismo ?
- Gigabit Ethernet [hmm - was this around when the Pismo was out - I think not]
- do you even know what a Core 2 Duo processor is ? To break it down for your simple mind it's basically a dual-processor and wait - it gets even better they put this dual-processor in a laptop_ Wow - no this wouldn't be innovative enough for me to switch from my Pismo either - you're right_
- OS X [any version] which runs natively on the MBP/Powerbook G4s - No_ No innovation there - where'd the Pismo leave off natively - maybe System 8.1 ? DAMN - I wish I could run System 8 again - that was the best operating system_

The point being - even the slowest mainstream PDA on the market currently is more innovative than the Pismo_

In car terms -
That's like comparing a Chevey Corvette C6 to a 1952 Studebaker and saying the Corvette isn't innovative enough for me to get rid of the old car and upgrade to a the new one currently on the market_

Most things on the macbook pro are industry standard, except the magsafe and backlit keyboard which i think are great. The point is that relative to its time (of course!) the pismo was innovative and one of the most flexible and ergonomic computers around. despite the innovative nature of the magsafe and keyboard on the MBP, I really don't think it's very innovative. oh, the display on the MBP isn 6bit and actually can't display millions of colors without dithering. 262K, that's all.

Anyway, long live PISMO!!!!!!
     
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Feb 28, 2007, 11:35 AM
 
The innovations cited are all luxury at best, what good does a backlit keyboard do to someone who can actually type by feel? The stop motion sensor, I give due respect to. The MagSafe can bite me -- hate that annoying "innovation," almost more than I hate automatic headlights and window wipers.

Pismo still had expansion that no MB/MBP can touch.
     
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Feb 28, 2007, 11:37 AM
 
Sorry I don't see how the Pismo was innovative at all! I had a Lombard and when the Pismo came out, I didn't feel at all like upgrading to it. There was nothing really special about it. And the Lombard itself was a sleeker, faster Wall Street.

About the only innovative thing about those models was the cool expansion slots that allowed you to swap an extra hard drive for the optical drive. At the time the SVideo output was unique in that PCs didn't have that yet. And the flip up keyboard for memory access was unique to the PowerBook too. Oh and the external battery charge indicator too. But specwise though it wasn't very special compared to PC laptops. You could find similar video cards, screen sizes and resolutions and battery life with ThinkPads, Sony's and Dells.

The MacBook(Pro)s may not be as swoopy as the Pismo but they are very good laptops. Much better than what the Pismo offered in its time IMHO. Sure PCs have somewhat caught up by offering features that were innovative on the Pismo, but Apple has kept a lead by offering the unique features that others have documented before me.

Sounds like overall, you want something like that tiny Sony TX model. It would be nice if Apple offered a competitor to that and rumor is, they will be...
     
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Feb 28, 2007, 11:39 AM
 
i loved my pismo, but went to a 12" alubook.

my main work (logic rewired to reason) rarely worked on the pismo, it could just not handle that (even with ram maxed, nothing else running).

the 12" gave me: the power to do my work, plus speed, lighter, superdrive, MUCH better screen (even tho the 15" pb screen kills the 12" in terms of brightness & clarity).

the pismo was...elegant. newer macs have better screens, better everything. and, better is better...
"At first, there was Nothing. Then Nothing inverted itself and became Something.
And that is what you all are: inverted Nothings...with potential" (Sun Ra)
     
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Feb 28, 2007, 12:07 PM
 
Looked into that 6 bit display issue mentioned above... more info here:

6 bit? - Mac Forums

Looks like it's not just a MBP issue so it's not as much of a hit as you think.
     
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Feb 28, 2007, 12:33 PM
 
Actually, for all its bad press, ironical really is a word. It just sounds like something like "irregardless," which isn't a word.

And I can't believe I just created a sign-in to be able to post that.

I guess I'd better say something at least marginally connected to the thread topic. Perhaps I'm a bit jaded, but it always seems to me that no matter how many cool things get packed into any piece of technology I have, the really cool stuff always seems to be five years away (like being able to charge a cell phone or laptop without wires). Maybe it's just because, fun to play with as they may be, all my gadgets don't really improve the quality of my life that much. And after wrestling with my TiVo to get it to work with my *&@#*(* new Airport Extreme base station, that feeling is even stronger.
     
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Feb 28, 2007, 01:08 PM
 
Originally Posted by UberFu View Post
- how about the SMS [sudden motion sensor] built into the proline since the last versions of the PowerBooks and into the current offering of the MBPs ? -- this allows the spinning hard drive to be locked and motionless in a fraction of time - if you end up dropping it or knocking it off something_ NO NOT INNOVATIVE AT ALL - EVEN THOUGH NO OTHER 'MAINSTREAM' MAKER BUILDS THIS IN_
I guess you missed the part where the IBM ThinkPads had it first, and just about every laptop has it now.
     
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Feb 28, 2007, 01:25 PM
 
No one has a bet for the Magnetic Latch on MacBooks yet...
     
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Feb 28, 2007, 06:39 PM
 
What sort of bet...as it "when will they get them?" They already do.

I don't understand your post.
     
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Mar 1, 2007, 05:29 AM
 
Originally Posted by ibugv4 View Post
Pismo still had expansion that no MB/MBP can touch.
i agree, but then you have to hail the Wallstreet/Wallstreet2 machines, because they had two full expansion bays, whereas Lombard and Pismo just had one full and the other only for battery. Wallstreet cases were also made of metal, in comparison to the plastics of Lombard/Pismo.

Regards
PB.
Aut Caesar aut nihil.
     
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Mar 1, 2007, 10:06 AM
 
Its so interestin that the pismo is still in discussion these days. As an owner of a macbook pro and a pismo (upgraded to a g4), I can see how many of you would say that there is absolutely no comparison between the 2. In terms of power and performance, I think that's absolutely correct. But for me, the pismo is still a joy to use.

I haven't upgraded any software specifically for the intel machines, so I run pretty much the same software on both. And while the mbp may be faster, the pismo runs the same software. But there are many times that I just prefer using the pismo.

1. Typing, I just feel more comfortable typing on a pismo instead of the mbp. I think the design of the pismo is just so much more comfortable. Think back in the day, most laptops were bulky and boxes when the pismo (wallstreet, lombard, etc) came out.

2. Wireless reception. Forget it, I pick up so many more signals with my pism. Sure I may be able to add a wireless card to the mbp, but then that just destroys the clean look of the machine.

3. Durability. I don't have to worry about getting the machine dented as I do with the mbp. Sure I can get one of those hard cases, but again that just ruins the clean look of the laptop.

4. Battery life. Having 2 batteries in the pismo easily gives 8+ hours. Even with 1 battery it still runs better than the mbp.

5. Upgradeability. I love being able to service the pismo easily. Upgraded the hard drive in about 5 minutes, and if I ever needed to replace the screen it would be a 10 minute job. 2 firewire ports, and a full size pc card slot, and I have all the expansion that I would need to connect my current devices.

So all in all, the pismo still has its place in todays world of computers which is the amazing part of it. It's foolish to compare sheer performance between a current machine and a 7 year old one, but isn't it great that the 7 year old machine still runs a great deal of the current software with no problems?! I'm sure the 1gb, g4 500 cpu, and 100gb 5400 adds to the better performance of my machine, but I don't think anything can really come close to the way it feels when I am simply typing away.

Kudos to the current machines, but long live the pismo!!
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Mar 1, 2007, 11:11 AM
 
This discussion reminds me of the comments (aka. Debates) that appear under Zune and Vista ads on Youtube. It goes something like this;
"ipod needs to die, yo. only f**kers use ipods. steve needs to burn in hell"
And then we all fire back an angry reply thats about 7 lines in length, and then after about 14 or 15 angry replies, the original poster adds a response
"ipods are gay, d00ds... seriously, gtfo n00bs"

Of course, what we fail to realize is that a comment isn't going to sway anyones opinion on a piece of hardware or software.
I personally think that these hardware upgrades are rarley necessary, and only required because software developers keep adding new features with increasingly larger RAM and HD use. All I'm doing on my iBook is writing, doing light browsing, listening to music through external speakers, and watching (or burning) DVDs and cds. I get about 5-6 hours of battery life when I'm out writing, and I have an airport card to pick up wi-fi. It's defenetley not the fastest, but It's all I need to be productive. Of course I plan to upgrade soon, but I have to say there isn't one feature on the current 'book offering that is convincing me to upgrade. I have a 20" iMac at home to sync my iPod, and for InDesign/Xpress. I have a messenger pack/murse, and I'm cafefull with my iBook, I don't particulairly need a SMS. Are we as a generation so clumsy that we're constantly tripping over our AC adaptor cords and hurling our macbooks to the ground? Did we somehow forget to use scrollbars, or how to hold down a modifier key to bring up the little kid-gloved drag hand? I'm not wowed by a scrolling trackpad or a backlit keyboard, these seem like features that apple toiled over when trying to once again prove how innovative they are. We get it... They're innovative. The new 'books are innovative, but so are iBooks from 1999.
     
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Mar 1, 2007, 11:49 AM
 
I nearly gave up on my post, it was becoming to passional. Sometimes I find difficult to express my ideas but it seems that some got my point, thanks kmarketing, cwinnipeg and all replies on the same wave
     
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Mar 1, 2007, 01:53 PM
 
Originally Posted by kmarketing View Post
Its so interestin that the pismo is still in discussion these days. As an owner of a macbook pro and a pismo (upgraded to a g4), I can see how many of you would say that there is absolutely no comparison between the 2. In terms of power and performance, I think that's absolutely correct. But for me, the pismo is still a joy to use.

I haven't upgraded any software specifically for the intel machines, so I run pretty much the same software on both. And while the mbp may be faster, the pismo runs the same software. But there are many times that I just prefer using the pismo.

1. Typing, I just feel more comfortable typing on a pismo instead of the mbp. I think the design of the pismo is just so much more comfortable. Think back in the day, most laptops were bulky and boxes when the pismo (wallstreet, lombard, etc) came out.

2. Wireless reception. Forget it, I pick up so many more signals with my pism. Sure I may be able to add a wireless card to the mbp, but then that just destroys the clean look of the machine.

3. Durability. I don't have to worry about getting the machine dented as I do with the mbp. Sure I can get one of those hard cases, but again that just ruins the clean look of the laptop.

4. Battery life. Having 2 batteries in the pismo easily gives 8+ hours. Even with 1 battery it still runs better than the mbp.

5. Upgradeability. I love being able to service the pismo easily. Upgraded the hard drive in about 5 minutes, and if I ever needed to replace the screen it would be a 10 minute job. 2 firewire ports, and a full size pc card slot, and I have all the expansion that I would need to connect my current devices.

So all in all, the pismo still has its place in todays world of computers which is the amazing part of it. It's foolish to compare sheer performance between a current machine and a 7 year old one, but isn't it great that the 7 year old machine still runs a great deal of the current software with no problems?! I'm sure the 1gb, g4 500 cpu, and 100gb 5400 adds to the better performance of my machine, but I don't think anything can really come close to the way it feels when I am simply typing away.

Kudos to the current machines, but long live the pismo!!

1. Totally diagree. The MBP keyboard is far more solid and doesn't drop strokes like my Pismo did.

2. I find the wireless to be perfectly fine. I don't know about a head to head comparison.

3. I find the casing of the MBP to be very durable, at least as much so as the Pismo. It could get little dents, it's true.

4. Uh, and why can't you just buy a second MBP battery? You'll have a case with you anyway.

5. I've never understood this desire. The only thing worth upgrading on a latpop is perhaps the RAM. You MIGHT want to upgrade the Hard Drive, so I'll give you that. But usually by the time you'd like to do so, it's better to just buy a new machine.


The point of this thread was the darkmatter didn't feel the MBP was "innovative" enough to replace his Pismo. It's pretty clear that position has been thoroughly trounced upon. The MBP is faster, lighter, brighter, more capable, and costs much less. Game over.
     
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Mar 1, 2007, 02:11 PM
 
I can't stop myself from chiming in again.

Things that are better design on the pismo compared to the MBP

- softer/rounder case that doesn't cut into the user,even after long use. Wonderful to use. I think the keyboard on the MBP, but it's not quite as crisp as the pismo's.
- touchpad clicker is easier to press down. Less likely to develop tendonitis of the thumb. Seriously, the MBP and al powerbook click buttons are really nasty design. Luckily we can tap.
- Display tilt can be adjust according to the preference of the user rather than forcing the user to adjust to the display
- Sound volume is louder and has more bass
- Wireless is definitely better - I've compared side by side. Only the macbook beats the pismo.
- expanbable through bays as others have mentioned - of course there are no more new accessories to put in them now, but the potential was there and it was a nice option. Having two batteries is great and allows you to work non-stop for a full work day.
- Easy to swap out and upgrade hard drive. Again, only the macbook is better. And YES, it's a very very convenient feature in case you're in trouble and need to swap quickly.
- Display is evenly illuminated, though of course no longer bright. I want both: even illumination, good color gamut and brightness. Why so hard?

So, if anything, I think the macbook is a better computer than the mbp design-wise and is more en par with Pismo. The macbook pro is on its way out and I'm sure Apple will change the design soon to be more like the macbook.
     
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Mar 1, 2007, 05:07 PM
 
Originally Posted by pete View Post
I can't stop myself from chiming in again.

Things that are better design on the pismo compared to the MBP

- softer/rounder case that doesn't cut into the user,even after long use. Wonderful to use. I think the keyboard on the MBP, but it's not quite as crisp as the pismo's.
- touchpad clicker is easier to press down. Less likely to develop tendonitis of the thumb. Seriously, the MBP and al powerbook click buttons are really nasty design. Luckily we can tap.
- Display tilt can be adjust according to the preference of the user rather than forcing the user to adjust to the display
- Sound volume is louder and has more bass
- Wireless is definitely better - I've compared side by side. Only the macbook beats the pismo.
- expanbable through bays as others have mentioned - of course there are no more new accessories to put in them now, but the potential was there and it was a nice option. Having two batteries is great and allows you to work non-stop for a full work day.
- Easy to swap out and upgrade hard drive. Again, only the macbook is better. And YES, it's a very very convenient feature in case you're in trouble and need to swap quickly.
- Display is evenly illuminated, though of course no longer bright. I want both: even illumination, good color gamut and brightness. Why so hard?

So, if anything, I think the macbook is a better computer than the mbp design-wise and is more en par with Pismo. The macbook pro is on its way out and I'm sure Apple will change the design soon to be more like the macbook.
Where do you people come up with this stuff?

Let me spell it out for you all:

The Pismo does not even compare to the Macbook Pro. This is coming from an owner of both machines. The MBP is better is every respect. Every one.

Have a nice day.
     
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Mar 1, 2007, 05:25 PM
 
Originally Posted by SDW2001 View Post
Where do you people come up with this stuff?

Let me spell it out for you all:

The Pismo does not even compare to the Macbook Pro. This is coming from an owner of both machines. The MBP is better is every respect. Every one.

Have a nice day.
Well, my friend, I've had pismos, lombards, wallstreets, macbooks, powerbooks G4s, macbook pros (both 15 and 17) and I stand by my assessment above. Of course, I would not want to go back to Pismo as my main machine, but its because the news ones are lighter and much more powerful, not because of ergonomics, versatility and comfort - the latter of which are better on the pismo IMO.

I suppose this is just how things are as APple grows quickly and wants to sell. If I were a designer I would think more about the user than Apple is currently doing. Pismo was a more user-centric computer, hands down. Macbook Pros are great, powerful etc, but have sacrificed much ergonomics in the process. Not to mention the sacrifices that were made to keep them in aluminum and super thin (display tilt, heat, superdrive speed, inability to easily swap hdd, metal warping and and denting etc. Apple has become fixated on form over function and that is a negative trend. I wish they could sit down and re-create the laptop - make it into something that is infinitely flexible in how it can be adapted to the user under a variety of circumstances. With wireless connections, things can be separated and put back together without hassle. Keyboards could be removed for better comfort and distance. Displays could be raised, tilted, twisted etc. There are so many small things that could be improved to make using a laptop a more comfortable experience. And yet Apple has done little real innovation in this area.

I'm hoping that will change. If somebody can do it, it's APple!
     
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Mar 1, 2007, 05:29 PM
 
Originally Posted by SDW2001 View Post
Where do you people come up with this stuff?

Let me spell it out for you all:

The Pismo does not even compare to the Macbook Pro. This is coming from an owner of both machines. The MBP is better is every respect. Every one.

Have a nice day.
Just so I understand you correctly: are you saying that it's better to have less LCD tilt, shorter battery life, weaker wireless reception, more difficult to swap hard drive, less expandability, less evenly illuminated displays and more difficult to press clicking buttons??

Or are you simply saying that I'm wrong with the above?
     
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Mar 1, 2007, 07:24 PM
 
Originally Posted by SEkker View Post
Other than the ability to run windows, what does this MBP do (faster) that the Pismo could not do?
If you only use Word, yeah sure the Pismo probably seems just as fast. I've got a G4 1.5 GHz PBook and a MBP. The MBP runs rings around the PB with every intensive app I use. Aperture? WAAAAAAY faster on the MBP. WoW? think 50fps vs 7-15fps and that's with everything set to low on the PB and most things set pretty high on the MBP. I cannot even begin to imagine using either of these on a Pismo (and I did own a WallStreet).

Originally Posted by darkmatter View Post
Less than 1" thin, innovative? The height of MacBook(Pro) is not less than 1" . They are heavy too. That could be innovative.
You are correct, the MBP is exactly 1", it is not "less than 1 inch", even Apple's online store states it is 1". Of course the Pismo is 1.7 inches thick.

I've owned 4 Mac Laptops, 1 desktop and an incredible number of PCs. My MBP is the most incredible piece of electronics I have ever used.
MBP - 2.33GHz C2D, 3GB RAM, 256MB VRAM, 160GB HD
PB - 1.5GHz G4, 2GB RAM, 128MB VRAM, 80GB HD
PM - Dual 1GHzG4, 1.5GB RAM, NVidia GForce 3, 2x 80 GB HD
     
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Mar 2, 2007, 10:05 PM
 
Oh c'mon, the thread was originally about being able to USE a 7-year laptop. Ye gads, compare the Pismo with a Wintel from the same age and <snort> try to make it run WinXP, let alone Office2003.

How come a laptop that came with 64MB of RAM can now have 1GB? It's a Pismo.

Hey, your MacBook Pros max out at 3GB. They'll be obsolete, if only because of that, in no more than three years, thanks to MacOS 10.6.
My Mac is a Pismo G4/550: 1GB RAM, 40GB 5.4k, Airport, DVD-R, and still black, silent and curvaceous!
     
 
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