Welcome to the MacNN Forums.

Original Nerd · Jun 3, 2008, 05:45 PM

I have an early 2007 Black Macbook and I upgraded a long time ago to 2GB of RAM. I was thinking about going to 3GB since RAM is so cheap but I am unsure if I will actually get a benefit from upgrading. How can I go about checking? I loaded up a ton of stuff and I only see my RAM level getting up to 1.2GB max even with more stuff running than I will ever use at one time.

I went in and looked at the Activity Monitor and the "Used" Memory only went up to 1.2GB with a movie running...15 web pages open etc etc etc. Am I looking at this the right way? If I only see 1.2GB max being used will I get anything out of moving to 3GB of RAM?

Any insight to this will be appreciated.

Luca Rescigno · Jun 3, 2008, 06:00 PM

You want to look at two things. One is the "Free" total, not the "Used" total. If the "Free" total is something like 10 MB, then you are using all your RAM. If it's several hundred MB, you probably don't need more RAM.

The other thing you want to look at is the number of pageouts. This number should be as low as possible. If you're computer's been on for a while and it's only a few hundred or a few thousand (or better yet, zero), you're fine. But if you're seeing numbers in the tens of thousands or higher, it means you are running out of RAM on occasion. It varies based on how long your computer's been on, so if you see that you have 8,000 pageouts right after you restart, you're in trouble. If you see 50,000 but the computer's been on for two weeks, you're probably okay. But ideally, you'd have none.

ibook_steve · Jun 3, 2008, 07:20 PM

Originally Posted by Luca Rescigno

You want to look at two things. One is the "Free" total, not the "Used" total. If the "Free" total is something like 10 MB, then you are using all your RAM. If it's several hundred MB, you probably don't need more RAM.

...but you'll want it anyway. Modern operating systems are RAM hogs, and even if you personally are not using all the RAM with your running apps, the OS can use the extra RAM behind the scenes.

Luca has presented some good info, but basically, there's very little reason ever to not max your RAM (unless of course you can't afford it; try filling up the RAM slots in a Mac Pro and see how broke you can quickly become).

Steve

@pplejaxkz · Jun 3, 2008, 07:26 PM

Originally Posted by Luca Rescigno

You want to look at two things. One is the "Free" total, not the "Used" total. If the "Free" total is something like 10 MB, then you are using all your RAM. If it's several hundred MB, you probably don't need more RAM.

The other thing you want to look at is the number of pageouts. This number should be as low as possible. If you're computer's been on for a while and it's only a few hundred or a few thousand (or better yet, zero), you're fine. But if you're seeing numbers in the tens of thousands or higher, it means you are running out of RAM on occasion. It varies based on how long your computer's been on, so if you see that you have 8,000 pageouts right after you restart, you're in trouble. If you see 50,000 but the computer's been on for two weeks, you're probably okay. But ideally, you'd have none.

Why does it matter if your computer has been on for a while? Over time does it just hog up more RAM the longer it's on? And if it does matter that it's been on for a while does that mean it's a good idea to restart your computer to refresh your RAM? Thanks for the input!

Luca Rescigno · Jun 3, 2008, 07:35 PM

I mainly mentioned that because the number of pageouts refers to how many there have been since you last restarted. At least, I think that's how it works... can anyone confirm if it's that or if it works differently?

But it is a good idea to quit out of applications you're not using, especially if you notice any slowness. Web browsers, MS Office, and anything by Adobe tend to hog RAM. Safari is one of the worst, actually, and I think MS Word is way up there too.

I don't think you'll need to actually restart, but quitting applications should help.

Original Nerd · Jun 3, 2008, 08:07 PM

Well I pushed it even further and had everything open and had an HD Video playing and it pushed it all the way up to 1.67GB used and 300mb Free. It paged out to 3.52MB.

The cost is not the issue with buying another gig of RAM. I just don't know how this is actually going to help in any way at all if this unrealistic test of having every possible program running and watching a HD video and everything else going on before it even pages out once.

I know the cost is not a lot but saying just buy it to buy it doesn't make sense if all it is going to do is sit there and never be used.

@pplejaxkz · Jun 3, 2008, 08:09 PM

Originally Posted by Luca Rescigno

I mainly mentioned that because the number of pageouts refers to how many there have been since you last restarted. At least, I think that's how it works... can anyone confirm if it's that or if it works differently?

But it is a good idea to quit out of applications you're not using, especially if you notice any slowness. Web browsers, MS Office, and anything by Adobe tend to hog RAM. Safari is one of the worst, actually, and I think MS Word is way up there too.

I don't think you'll need to actually restart, but quitting applications should help.

Yeah I do try and make sure to quit all applications that I am not using. Thanks for the reply, and love the sig by the way. Makes me laugh every time I see it.

ghporter · Jun 3, 2008, 08:35 PM

I'd say "go for it" and don't worry about whether you'll get super-duper speedy amazingness rather than just better performance. Because you WILL get better performance with more RAM. No doubt about it. Could you get even better performance if your computer could go up to 4GB of RAM and thus let you use two 2GB SO-DIMMs? Sure. But it won't, right? So bump it up as much as you can and take advantage of inexpensive RAM pricing. You won't be sorry.

mduell · Jun 3, 2008, 11:11 PM

For $40, it's a no-brainer.

Original Nerd · Jun 3, 2008, 11:22 PM

I guess I am not asking it the right way. How is the additional gig going to help me if I do not even use the full 2 gigs I have now? I will never have every program open while watching an HD video and with all of these things on it never used the full 2 gigs. How will 3 gigs make things run any different?

Does the system change the way it is accessing memory since it sees more RAM? Does it throw more OS stuff at it since there is more RAM to play around with?

You are saying just do it but nobody is saying why. Again, I don't care about the money. I am just trying to understand it better. I am not saying that it will change my entire Macbook and make it 10x faster. I am just not understanding how it will do anything different at all if it isn't using the full 2 gigs it has already.

Simon · Jun 4, 2008, 12:13 AM

You are looking at it the wrong way. Page outs will only indicate if you are already RAM-starved. But that's only one side of the story.

The other side is that the amount of RAM OS X and certain apps use actually depends on the amount of RAM available (I have two Mac minis with identical systems here: one with 512 MB and one with 1 GB; just after booting the RAM footprint is already different by 100 MB!). If you have lots of RAM the system and apps will gobble up more. And in many cases this will give you a slight performance increase. OS X's file caching in RAM is a simple example.

RAM is cheap. Having more of it, means more of it will be used. And that in turn means you get better performance. IOW, do it.

wataru · Jun 4, 2008, 04:36 AM

Originally Posted by Original Nerd

I guess I am not asking it the right way. How is the additional gig going to help me if I do not even use the full 2 gigs I have now?

It sounds like your current needs don't require an extra gig. But your needs may change, even without you realizing it.

You may start using some fancy new app that's a memory hog. You may upgrade an app you already use (or your OS) and find that it needs more memory. It's hard to predict exactly when more RAM will be useful, but I remember upgrading my LCII to 10MB of RAM and I can tell you this: You will need more RAM eventually, so you might as well get it while the getting's good (RAM prices go down with time until the standard becomes obsolete and loses economies of scale; a friend of mine got bit by this a few years ago with PC-133 RAM).

Original Nerd · Jun 4, 2008, 05:33 PM

Originally Posted by Simon

You are looking at it the wrong way. Page outs will only indicate if you are already RAM-starved. But that's only one side of the story.

The other side is that the amount of RAM OS X and certain apps use actually depends on the amount of RAM available (I have two Mac minis with identical systems here: one with 512 MB and one with 1 GB; just after booting the RAM footprint is already different by 100 MB!). If you have lots of RAM the system and apps will gobble up more. And in many cases this will give you a slight performance increase. OS X's file caching in RAM is a simple example.

RAM is cheap. Having more of it, means more of it will be used. And that in turn means you get better performance. IOW, do it.

This makes sense to me. Thank you for the reply. Ordering the RAM right now.