[Simon]

This is so far the most disturbing thing I have heard about MDP. Apple has implemented DPCP (HDCP for DP) on the new MB(P)s. IOW unlike pirates the people who buy video content legally don't get to play it on their screen/projector of choice.

Ars: Apple brings HDCP to a new aluminum MacBook near you

[Ted L. Nancy]

I gave up on iTunes purchases a long time ago. (Exception: When there is an iTunes exclusive from a band I'm really interested in.)

There is benefit in free podcasting, but Apple's tendency to give in to the whims of the staunch intellectual property Harkonnens became way too frustrating for me as an end user.

This news is "disturbing," but it is not surprising.

[paulgg]

Thanks for the info Colin. I will be going to the MacWorld show in January --- I'm sure there will be something there then.

--Paul

[mduell]

Ooh, that's a swift unannounced kick in the pants.

[Simon]

It's (once again) alarming how these measures in the end punish those people who purchase content legally.

Personally, I will never buy iTunes movie content if I have to put up with something like that. Just as I stopped buying DVDs when I ran into troubles playing region DVDs I had legally acquired on my region-locked drive.

And since getting the content illegally is so easy (and even cheaper) it just goes to show what a stupid strategy measures such as these are.

[colinrocks]

I don't know... if Apple's miniDP supports HDCP then it's a step towards the miniDP natively supporting miniDP to HDMI cables. One thought I had for Apple not wanting to support HDMI is that they might not want to buy in to HDCP, using the open-format (mini) DP and possibly cheaper DPCP instead.

If aluminium macbooks support HDCP, does that mean they MUST be using HDMI? Or can miniDP output HDCP encoded data in a DP stream?

But yeah... I agree, from a users perspective, the harder they make watching films, the more people are going to use switch media. It's a bit like making cars that only do certain journeys, but nearly-identical imported cars can drive on any road like any other car. If you want to sell more cars, surely you should make them compatible with as many roads as possible? It's a shame the big music and movie distrubutors don't embrace digital media more... they could make massive savings if they simply changed their sales model to suit the changing media - I don't know many people who'd bother pirating music or films if they were easier to use on existing kit and better value for money. Surely streaming media costs an order of magnitude less to distribute than CD/DVDs do, which in turn probably costs much less than cutting and distributing analogue tapes did.

I don't like to think how much money has been spent on developing and implementing these copy protection schemes, which (combined with dwindling sales) ends up pushing the prices of the media up. And the final kick in the crotch is that these copy protection schemes specifically target, penalise and frustrate only those of us who pay good money for the content. It makes you wonder why anyone bothers.
</rant>
</tangent>

[mduell]

Originally Posted by colinrocks 

I don't know... if Apple's miniDP supports HDCP then it's a step towards the miniDP natively supporting miniDP to HDMI cables. One thought I had for Apple not wanting to support HDMI is that they might not want to buy in to HDCP, using the open-format (mini) DP and possibly cheaper DPCP instead.

I don't see how you got to that conclusion.

You don't need to support HDCP to use HDMI; you can have HDMI without HDCP and HDCP without HDMI. HDCP support has nothing to do with Apple offering audio and video via HDMI.

[Simon]

Believe it or not, you could even have HDCP over DVI. Apple didn't do that. But now with MDP and for some reason I fail to understand they caved in.

[Dakar V]

Perhaps a hint at future Blu-Ray integration?

[Simon]

Possible. But for us users I'd say the bag of hurt is already here.

[Dakar V]

It's certainly started.

[CharlesS]

So, does piggybacking a generic VGA-to-component, composite, or S-Video adapter onto the MiniDP-to-VGA adapter work? Has anyone who has one of the new machines tried it?

[Simon]

I'm not sure I understand. Why should it not? AFAIK HDCP does not interfere with VGA. Or am I missing your point?

[CharlesS]

Nothing to do with HDCP - I'm just wondering if it'll work, since I don't fully understand the internal workings of DisplayPort, VGA, and the video card Apple's using.

If you piggyback a generic DVI-to-whatever adapter onto Apple's DVI adapter, it doesn't work. I'm wondering if that's also the case with VGA, or whether that would work, and whether anyone's tried it.

[Simon]

Apple offers free licensing for Mini DisplayPort spec

IOW the MDP specs are now public and anybody can build MDP adapters, plugs, cables, etc. for free.

[CharlesS]

That's a step in the right direction. It may or may not convince other device makers to use MDP, but at least this ensures that there will be a market for third-party adapters and such.

[Simon]

I'm fairly confident we'll see several third-party manufacturers start making adapters. The way Apple has priced their MDP adapters is basically an invitation for others to make money.

[P]

Any word on if this has been submitted to VESA to be a standard?

[Simon]

Originally Posted by P 

Any word on if this has been submitted to VESA to be a standard?

These guys claim Apple has already submitted it to VESA for certification.

In parallel, it seems that Apple offered to the VESA to certify the mini Display Port in order to make it a new size format standard. Till this certification is completed and made public by the VESA all mini DisplayPort adaptors manufactured by third-parties will have to feature Apple's copyright.

[tooki]

Originally Posted by colinrocks 

Tooki - I think Charles was just asking if the VGA from a miniDP-to-VGA adapter would be suitable for a VGA-to-component adapter... your post was excellent but has left me wondering if back-to-back miniDP-VGA-component adapters would work... I think they should, shouldn't they?

Originally Posted by CharlesS 

So, does piggybacking a generic VGA-to-component, composite, or S-Video adapter onto the MiniDP-to-VGA adapter work? Has anyone who has one of the new machines tried it?

Sorry, guys, piggybacking doesn't work. Why? Because the thing to understand is that the adapters are NOT converting signals, they are simply 1) adapting plugs, and 2) signaling to the graphics card WHICH signal type it should output -- the graphics card is NOT outputting all signal types at once, just one at a time.

A DVI->Component adapter, for instance, simply tells the graphics card "I am an adapter, please output component video", so the graphics card outputs component instead of DVI or VGA or composite or s-video.

If you piggyback connectors, you get a mess. For example, MDP->DVI and then DVI->Component: the MDP->DVI adapter tells the graphics card to output DVI, so it does. The second adapter cannot communicate with the card to request Component, so instead you have either DVI signals (or more likely, nothing at all) on the component RCA connectors -- useless.

The only time that stacking adapters works is when the second (and any subsequent) adapters are ONLY passive connector adapters. For example, DVI->HDMI, since those are the same signal, just on a different plug. So using, say, MDP->DVI and then DVI->HDMI will work fine. Similarly, MiniDVI->VGA and then VGA->5xBNC for a commercial display.

[plugwash]

Originally Posted by Ted L. Nancy 

I've seen DVI --> HDMI cables where the DVI end seemed to sport a full set of dual-link pins, but I always assumed that those were just dead pins.

They probablly were (BTW I always wonder why some manufacturers put in unnessacery pins that reduce compatibility like this)

Does HDMI have some extra pins or pin spots that I don't know about?

No the dual link version of HDMI is a large connector which afaict is not compatible with the normal HDMI connector. I've seen it for sale in a parts catalog but never actually in use. HDMI seems to mostly be used for consumer electronics stuff where the capabilities of single link HDMI or DVI are fine.