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olePigeon · Nov 16, 2009, 03:54 PM

I have 26 2009 Uniboday polycarbonate MacBooks that I recently imaged where all 26 immediately go into hibernation upon booting. This also happens when booting from the system DVD; the machine will immediately go into hibernate mode at exactly the same time the Languages dialog is presented.

The only way I'm able to get the machines to comes back up is to zap the PRAM 10 to 15 times (it varies), then the machine will work for a few hours like normal.

If the machine is turned off for about a day, when I turn it on it goes back to going into hibernate-after-it-boots crap.

Nothing I do seems to fix this. I just recently set the pmset -a hibernatemode to zero. Even if that does work to fix my immediate problem, it's not a general fix. I shouldn't have to turn off hibernate.

ghporter · Nov 16, 2009, 04:34 PM

If these were PC notebooks, I'd say immediately "BIOS battery." With having to zap the PRAM repeatedly on these machines, could it not be that their CMOS support batteries are bad? They all must be brand new, and that makes me suspicious of a not-so-good manufacturing error, like not properly installing the battery or having a stock of crappy batteries that nobody knew about beforehand.

amazing · Nov 16, 2009, 04:38 PM

have you used the boot image successfully on other MBs of the exact same generation?

Have you taken one of these MBs and installed the OS from a full OS X install disk? Everything work OK?

Better yet, what's your Apple rep say?

olePigeon · Nov 16, 2009, 04:43 PM

I haven't used it successfully on any MacBook of the same generation. The MacBook Pros and 2006/2007/2008 white MacBooks all work perfectly fine.

I can't install from the system DVD because the machines go into hibernate before I can do anything.

I'm still waiting on a reply from our Apple Rep. I'm hoping he can come over and just look at what's going on. I'll know tomorrow if my disabling-hibernate-mode trick works, but I really shouldn't have to turn off hibernate.

chabig · Nov 16, 2009, 04:54 PM

By hibernate, do you mean sleep?

If you can't boot from an OS X install DVD, then it can't be a software problem with the OS. It would have to be hardware or firmware. Have you reset the SMC? Have you got the latest firmware?

ibook_steve · Nov 16, 2009, 06:25 PM

Originally Posted by olePigeon

I can't install from the system DVD because the machines go into hibernate before I can do anything.

I don't understand. You can't boot from a regular OS installation DVD by holding "c" at boot?

Steve

imitchellg5 · Nov 16, 2009, 06:29 PM

That'd be a pain with 26 MacBooks...

chabig · Nov 16, 2009, 07:12 PM

How did you make the boot image? Did you use the DVD that shipped with the machines, or an older disc?

imitchellg5 · Nov 16, 2009, 07:27 PM

Good call, perhaps the unibody MacBooks use a different build of OS X?

olePigeon · Nov 16, 2009, 09:39 PM

Originally Posted by chabig

By hibernate, do you mean sleep?

No, I mean hibernate. The machine loads its last state from the sleep image. It'll do that once, then go directly back into hibernate and not wake up again.

Originally Posted by chabig

If you can't boot from an OS X install DVD, then it can't be a software problem with the OS. It would have to be hardware or firmware. Have you reset the SMC? Have you got the latest firmware?

Originally Posted by ibook_steve

I don't understand. You can't boot from a regular OS installation DVD by holding "c" at boot?

I can boot from the install DVD, but it goes into hibernate the moment the language selection window comes up. I can't wake it up after it does that, so I can't continue with the installation.

Originally Posted by chabig

How did you make the boot image? Did you use the DVD that shipped with the machines, or an older disc?

I used the DVD that shipped with the computer.

Big Mac · Nov 17, 2009, 02:58 AM

That sounds really crappy.

Doc HM · Nov 17, 2009, 07:42 AM

there does seem to be some problem with installing Snow Leopard from disk images. I have tried several times with a variety of Macs and it always fails. Normally the install just results in a Mac that displays the flashing "no valid system" question mark.

Wiping the drive and installing directly with the original DVD fixes that. It sounds like you are going to have to wipe the drives using target mode first to get over your hibernation issue.

I have no idea why SL behaves like this but it's very irritating as an install from an image is much faster than doing it via dvd individually.

Simon · Nov 17, 2009, 07:50 AM

Reset PRAM and SMC. Plug in AC power. Boot from the install DVD. Any change?

Boot holding d. That should start AHT. What does it say?

olePigeon · Nov 17, 2009, 12:04 PM

Originally Posted by Simon

Reset PRAM and SMC. Plug in AC power. Boot from the install DVD. Any change?

No.

Originally Posted by Simon

Boot holding d. That should start AHT. What does it say?

No hardware problems reported.

olePigeon · Nov 17, 2009, 12:19 PM

Here's an interesting development: I can get the machine to come out of hibernate if I physically jiggle the ethernet cable. I'm beginning to wonder if these machines are shorting, which would force it to go into hibernate mode.

I've found that, instead of jiggling the cable, if I just rotate the laptop causing a change in tension on the ethernet cable until it wakes from sleep, then leave it in that position, the laptop will work just fine. It'll boot and everything just as expected, including from the system DVD.

My switch is not a PoE switch, so I'm pretty darn sure I'm not frying the machines.

chabig · Nov 17, 2009, 12:30 PM

I think you're definitely at the point at which you need to get them replaced under warranty.

olePigeon · Nov 17, 2009, 02:41 PM

I'm in talks with our Apple rep. However, something else I noticed is that when a machine is exhibiting the boot/sleep behavior, the power light remains on from the point I hit the power button all the way up until the login screen.

When a machine is operating normally, the power light just pulsates once when I hit the power, then remains off unless the machine goes to sleep.

Also, I found out that it's not the ethernet cable, but simply moving the laptop will make the screen come back up. I'm guessing it's the accelerometer.

amazing · Nov 18, 2009, 11:10 AM

Definitely want to hear how this turns out with Apple. Please be sure to report back!

olePigeon · Nov 30, 2009, 03:33 PM

Here's a video of the problem. I'm still waiting on a response from Apple.

http://olepigeon.trolans.net/mb/mb.mov

chabig · Nov 30, 2009, 04:41 PM

Have you tried booting in verbose mode, just to see what's happening?

rjenkinson · Nov 30, 2009, 05:12 PM

Can you re-install by connecting the Macbook in target disk mode to another machine?

ibook_steve · Nov 30, 2009, 07:01 PM

Well, this proves it: you've got a batch of machines with bad reed switches, the magnetic switches that check to see whether the lid is closed. If jiggling the machine as you do in the video causes them to sleep, there's a short or something across the switches. Very strange that it happens to all of these machines, but it could be a bad batch of the part.

Back to Apple they should go...

Steve

olePigeon · Dec 1, 2009, 12:22 PM

Found the solution! And, yes, it was the magnetic latch sensor. No, it's not a hardware defect. Well, not intentionally because I don't think they expected people to do this with the laptops.

So my coworker one day asked me, "So you said they're magnetic latches for the lids, right?"
"Yeah."
"And you have 5 or 6 of them stacked on top of each other, with all their magnets right next to each other?"
"Yeah, they use a magnet for the lid instead of a mechan- oh god."

So with a resounding slap to my forhead heard across the campus, I laid out all the laptops by themselves on the table instead of stacked on top of each other, and what do you know? They're no longer going into sleep/hibernate mode.

With 5 laptops all stacked on top of each other and their magnetic latches all right above each other, even with the lid open on the top-most computer, the computer thought the lid was closed because the other 4 had JUST enough oomph to trick the sensor into thinking the lid was still closed.

That would also explain why every single time I took a laptop to the Apple Store, I could never get the laptop to repeat the problem.

Simon · Dec 1, 2009, 01:26 PM

<smacks forehead> I should have remembered that.

That's why when we stack MBPs we stack them front-back-front-back-etc.

ibook_steve · Dec 1, 2009, 01:44 PM

That really should not happen. The magnets should not be strong enough to cause this. In the PB 12" days when I worked at Apple, we had machines stacked like this and that never happened. Maybe they made the magnet stronger, but the switch should only work in one direction. A magnet below the switch should not affect the switch above it.

I'd be interested in seeing a video of an open running machine being slowly "slid" over the top of another closed machine to see it go to sleep as you slide.

Steve

olePigeon · Dec 1, 2009, 03:14 PM

This is the first model I ran into this problem. All the other laptops I had didn't do this when stacked, including last year's white MacBooks. Maybe it has to do with the tapered edges.

Cold Warrior · Dec 1, 2009, 05:25 PM

A video would be cool. Maybe it'll go to sleep as you stack them -- start with one, then add another and another until *poof* it sleeps.