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You are here: MacNN Forums > Hardware - Troubleshooting and Discussion > Mac Notebooks > Getting ready for the i5/i7 MBP

Getting ready for the i5/i7 MBP (Page 3)
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P
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Feb 10, 2010, 08:43 AM
 
Launching a new Mac during Macworld but not being there to show it might count as rubbing it in.
The new Mac Pro has up to 30 MB of cache inside the processor itself. That's more than the HD in my first Mac. Somehow I'm still running out of space.
     
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Feb 10, 2010, 11:58 AM
 
Originally Posted by P View Post
Launching a new Mac during Macworld but not being there to show it might count as rubbing it in.
No, the day after Macworld.
     
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Feb 10, 2010, 06:03 PM
 
Originally Posted by mduell View Post
No, the day after Macworld.
Ouch!!
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Sun Tzu
     
Simon  (op)
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Feb 13, 2010, 03:43 AM
 
Seth Weintraub speculates about wishlist items for the new MBP. USB3, WiDi, 3G. I don't care about WiDi or 3G, but USB3 would be cool. Unfortunately I don't think Apple is going release it with this new MBP. I have this gut feeling that Apple's not going to try to lead the pack with USB3. Shame though.

On another note, how big are our chances we'll see a 15" MBP without an optical drive or at least a BTO config with no optical drive? I'd so much rather have a second HDD/SSD or a larger battery than that drive.
     
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Feb 13, 2010, 05:10 PM
 
I would love a 3G option (or standard) in a MacBook Pro. If the iPad can have it, why not a Macbook?

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Feb 14, 2010, 02:52 AM
 
Standard? As in I have to buy another unlimited 3G plan next to the one I already have and tether with just fine?
     
Simon  (op)
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Feb 15, 2010, 03:44 PM
 
     
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Feb 15, 2010, 03:55 PM
 
Originally Posted by Simon View Post
Standard? As in I have to buy another unlimited 3G plan next to the one I already have and tether with just fine?
No - as in you order a second SIM for your existing contract for a one-time fee. Like T-Mobile here in Germany used to do for the first round of iPhone contracts.

Alas, no more.
     
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Feb 19, 2010, 12:12 PM
 
     
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Feb 19, 2010, 05:15 PM
 
Insert sound of Homer Simpson: "Duh!"
The new Mac Pro has up to 30 MB of cache inside the processor itself. That's more than the HD in my first Mac. Somehow I'm still running out of space.
     
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Feb 20, 2010, 02:36 AM
 
But will Apple include the Optimus in both MacBooks and MBPs? Or will MacBooks get stiffed with only Nehalem IGP?

BTW, I hope the FTC rakes Intel over the coals over the IGP issue. It's the clearest case of anti-competitive behaviour that harms the consumer I've ever heard. Especially since Nvidia's product is far superior to Intel's.
     
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Feb 20, 2010, 10:39 AM
 
Originally Posted by lpkmckenna View Post
But will Apple include the Optimus in both MacBooks and MBPs? Or will MacBooks get stiffed with only Nehalem IGP?
I'm sure it will only get the Arrandale IGP. Which isn't so bad, given the screen size.

Originally Posted by lpkmckenna View Post
BTW, I hope the FTC rakes Intel over the coals over the IGP issue. It's the clearest case of anti-competitive behaviour that harms the consumer I've ever heard. Especially since Nvidia's product is far superior to Intel's.
No, that would be the case of Pine Trail (latest Atom) and its integrated graphics. Arrandale is roughly comparable to 9400M, and there are relevant reasons for doing it the way they did (Arrandale being socket compatible with Clarksfield and the same thing on the desktop, and it has a lower power usage), but the Atom case is much clearer: That GPU (3150) is way slower than 9400M, and the power usage is not lower than the Ion setup. Plus the fact that the new Atom is more expensive and barely faster than the old one. The FTC could really go to town on that one - if nVidia complained, which it hasn't so far.

It's just delaying the inevitable, though. With Sandy Bridge, the IGP will truly be integrated on the chip and even use the same L3 cache. nVidia can never compete with that, and they can't complain about it being unfair either. Either they abandon the chipset business or buy Via and compete with Intel head on. So far it looks like they're taking the first option.
The new Mac Pro has up to 30 MB of cache inside the processor itself. That's more than the HD in my first Mac. Somehow I'm still running out of space.
     
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Feb 20, 2010, 01:35 PM
 
Originally Posted by lpkmckenna View Post
BTW, I hope the FTC rakes Intel over the coals over the IGP issue. It's the clearest case of anti-competitive behaviour that harms the consumer I've ever heard. Especially since Nvidia's product is far superior to Intel's.
Why should Intel have to support any third parties developing chipsets?
     
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Feb 20, 2010, 02:26 PM
 
Originally Posted by mduell View Post
Why should Intel have to support any third parties developing chipsets?
Presumably because they're a quasi-monopoly on the desktop and laptop markets. I don't have the numbers to judge whether this is a justified concern, but IIRC they HAVE been convicted of anti-competitive behavior at least once here in the EU.
     
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Feb 21, 2010, 06:53 AM
 
Originally Posted by mduell View Post
Why should Intel have to support any third parties developing chipsets?
They don't have to support them, but they are actively sabotaging nVidia on the Atom side. Using one monopoly (CPUs) to expand into a different market (GPUs) is abuse of monopoly power.
The new Mac Pro has up to 30 MB of cache inside the processor itself. That's more than the HD in my first Mac. Somehow I'm still running out of space.
     
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Feb 21, 2010, 04:33 PM
 
I personally dont see the need for the power of a i5 or i7 in a 13in laptop I'd happily move to a new 13in MBP or MB if they offer a i3 that out performs the current 2.4GHz C2D. Even more so if they up memory speed to 1333 or 1600. Even if the graphics remain the same.
     
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Feb 22, 2010, 02:55 AM
 
Core i3 has no TurboBoost. That means actually that the fastest clock speed you'll achieve with a mobile i3 is 2.26 GHz (for the i3-350M).
     
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Feb 22, 2010, 04:13 AM
 
Clock for clock, that's still (slightly) faster, though, right?

So it should be roughly the equivalent (but not noticeably superior) to the 2.4 GHz C2D?
     
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Feb 22, 2010, 04:28 AM
 
Sure, in CPU-limited tasks a 2.26 GHz Arrandale i3 will outperform a 2.4 GHz Penryn C2D. It won't be vastly superior, but it definitely will be an improvement.

But what would really set apart the new 13" MBP from its predecessor would be a dedicated GPU (and on-the-fly switching to the IGP). I'm all but certain that will happen though.
     
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Feb 26, 2010, 03:48 AM
 
     
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Feb 27, 2010, 08:57 PM
 
Magic Trackpad!

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Mar 4, 2010, 08:02 PM
 
It's been quiet for a bit -- no new MBP rumours.
     
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Mar 8, 2010, 12:11 PM
 
Steve is too excited about the iPad. I'm concerned there won't be an update to the MBP until both versions of the iPad have been out for awhile.
     
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Mar 8, 2010, 12:13 PM
 
I think the iPad is holding up a lot of new releases. OSX 10.6.3, MBP updates, iLife 2010, etc.

I don't need any more products to spend money on. The longer Apple holds them back the better (for my wallet).

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Mar 8, 2010, 04:00 PM
 
One theory is that 10.6.3 brings TRIM support, and that the new MBPs will come with powerful SSD options.
The new Mac Pro has up to 30 MB of cache inside the processor itself. That's more than the HD in my first Mac. Somehow I'm still running out of space.
     
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Mar 11, 2010, 09:40 PM
 
Originally Posted by Eriamjh View Post
I think the iPad is holding up a lot of new releases. OSX 10.6.3, MBP updates, iLife 2010, etc.

I don't need any more products to spend money on. The longer Apple holds them back the better (for my wallet).
lol.
I feel the same way.
On one hand, I want new apple stuff, but on the other hand my wallet is hurting.
This year is a tough one:
new iMac 27inch i7, 8gb of ram.
iPad, I just want it
MacBook Pro i5 or i7, because it has been a couple years and it feels like its time...

thanks Apple!
for taking all of my money!
iMac 27inch 3.4 i7 16gb ram, MacBook Air 11 inch i5 128gb, iMac 27inch 2.8 i7 8gb ram, MacBook Pro 17 inch 2.66 i7, 4gb ram 500gb HDD Seagate XT,
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Mar 12, 2010, 04:19 AM
 
Haven't spent much on Apple kit lately. And work will be paying for my new MBP. IOW I'll definitely go for the i7 and SSD. Now if only they'd finally remove that internal optical drive.
     
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Mar 12, 2010, 08:47 AM
 
Originally Posted by Simon View Post
Haven't spent much on Apple kit lately. And work will be paying for my new MBP. IOW I'll definitely go for the i7 and SSD. Now if only they'd finally remove that internal optical drive.
those are things that I would love to see also.
I love the i7 iMac, so far so good, and fast!
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Mar 14, 2010, 08:18 PM
 
It's been over 280 days since they last updated the Macbook Pro line. Average time between updates is around 200 days.

Seems like apple is taking their sweet time updating their Pro line. Maybe they're trying to fix the weird product lineup that is their Macbook/ Pro line. Move the 13 inch back to where it belongs.

But I'll just wait and save until then. Always waiting...
     
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Mar 14, 2010, 11:32 PM
 
Update to MB and MBP is because they're probably working with nVidia on Optimus, since the Intel integrated graphics suck so bad.
     
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Mar 15, 2010, 01:47 AM
 
Originally Posted by lpkmckenna View Post
Update to MB and MBP is because they're probably working with nVidia on Optimus, since the Intel integrated graphics suck so bad.
That seems to be what everyone is saying.

I would HOPE that they would have something new out by early summer in order to appeal to students and schools.

And people like me who want a new one...
     
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Mar 15, 2010, 04:44 AM
 
Since its launch the 15" MBP has been updated every eight months. It's been more than nine since the last update now.

It could be Optimus that's holding them back. OTOH it could however also be that it's sitting there pretty much ready for manufacturing and Steve is simply holding it back so it won't get in the way of the GodPad launch.

It's notable that the MP is in the same situation. The CPUs should be available and an update should have happened, but mysteriously it's just not happening.
     
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Mar 15, 2010, 11:32 PM
 
….....................
Originally Posted by JoshuaZ
Move the 13 inch back to where it belongs..
I assume you mean back "up" in the lineup where it belongs. So you can get a high end 13" with dedicated graphics. That's where Apple had it for years and that's one of the biggest gaps in their product lineup.
     
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Mar 16, 2010, 03:07 AM
 
Originally Posted by WizOSX View Post
So you can get a high end 13" with dedicated graphics. That's where Apple had it for years and that's one of the biggest gaps in their product lineup.
I assume by "for years" you are talking about those three years we had a 12" PB.

Let me also remind you that that 12" PB always lagged behind the larger PBs. It always came with a slower CPU and it used the previous generation GPU at best. It was clear that Apple was always trying to prevent it from becoming or being perceived as a 15" PB in a 12" package.
     
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Mar 16, 2010, 04:02 AM
 
….....................
Originally Posted by Simon
I assume by "for years" you are talking about those three years we had a 12" PB..
Yes. It seemed like more than three, but you're right.

….....................
Originally Posted by Simon
It was clear that Apple was always trying to prevent it from becoming or being perceived as a 15" PB in a 12" package..
Sadly, you're right again. I know we've been through this discussion re:12"PB many times. The 13" and 15" 2.53ghz Mac Pros are identical, and just $200 apart ($1499 vs. $1699) so it seems they aren't terribly worried about that perception right now. If Apple put out a 13" i7 MBP with dedicated graphics I'd buy it tomorrow (just waiting right now with my money to buy an i7 MB)--even if it was only $100 less than the 15".
     
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Mar 16, 2010, 05:05 AM
 
You see, surprisingly Apple did exactly the opposite. They dumbed down the 15" (integrated graphics, lower clock) to match the 13". To me that indicates Apple was willing to close that long-standing gap, but not by beefing up the 13". Be that for technical or for marketing reasons. If anything, I'd say that move indicates they definitely do not plan on releasing a high-end MBP in a 13" form factor anytime soon.

FTR, I love the idea of a souped up MBP in a small package. I just don't think it's very likely given Apple's track record and their recent moves.
     
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Mar 16, 2010, 06:01 AM
 
….....................
Originally Posted by Simon
If anything, I'd say that move indicates they definitely do not plan on releasing a high-end MBP in a 13" form factor anytime soon.
Probably right again. But one can always hope.
My 2.4ghz Black MacBook has served me well for 2 years (it replaced my 12" PB). But where do I go from here? Want an i7, don't want anything as big as 15" and really want dedicated graphics (and am willing to pay quite a lot for it). But almost certainly will end up with an i7 version of what I've got.
     
Simon  (op)
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Mar 16, 2010, 06:46 AM
 
You can always hope.

Quite possibly in the end you'll be forced to ask yourself which is more important to you: i7+GPU or 13" form factor. I'm familiar with that problem. In my case it's quite clear though that I'll have to suck up the bigger case and get the 15" MBP for its specs. Personally I'd prefer a smaller MBP too though.
     
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Mar 16, 2010, 06:53 AM
 
I wonder what the new lineup will look like. Will it be an all Core 2 Duo lineup with the i5s and i7s reserved as an Extreme option? Or will it be Core 2 Duos on the low end MBPs with i5s on the high end and i7s on the Extreme model?

I looked at the iMacs and see all Core 2 Duos with the Extreme model getting the i5 and the i7.
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Mar 16, 2010, 07:27 AM
 
Given that the new Core i3/i5/i7 chips have a much better price/performance ratio than Core 2 (excluding the Core i7-620M), Apple's general MO of always using the latest chips, and that Core 2 will be old as dirt when the time rolls around to update the laptops again, I think that it's a safe bet that we'll see Core i3/i5/i7 throughout the MBP line and likely in the MB as well.
The new Mac Pro has up to 30 MB of cache inside the processor itself. That's more than the HD in my first Mac. Somehow I'm still running out of space.
     
Simon  (op)
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Mar 16, 2010, 08:30 AM
 
I'm expecting Arrandale (Core i3/i5/i7) on the MBP as well. It would be nice to see i3 on the MB and i5/i7 on the MBPs. OTOH I wouldn't be entirely surprised to see C2D remain with the MB for another while. There's not that many Arrandales to chose from at this point. P is right though that price-wise Arrandale appears to be a very attractive option (if we assume Apple's cost is ~ proportional to Intel's 1k prices).
     
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Mar 16, 2010, 01:26 PM
 
I purchased a new MacBook Pro few days ago and returned it yesterday cause I heard about the rumors that the new ones will be coming out this week. Do you think I should still wait or just go back and get my computer? I'm pretty much without computer right now which is rather inconvenient.
     
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Mar 16, 2010, 02:16 PM
 
That's the problem with rumors, you just never know. If you can stand to wait a few weeks, it wouldn't hurt.
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Mar 16, 2010, 09:50 PM
 
I wouldn't be surprised if the matched the imac lineup C2D in everything but the 17" and i5 in the 17" with i7 as a BTO. The clock speeds would be lower than the imac line though. Of course I'm hoping for more.
     
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Mar 16, 2010, 11:00 PM
 
Apple's general MO of always using the latest chips, and that Core 2 will be old as dirt when the time rolls around to update the laptops again
I'm not sure if Apple jumps into the market with the "latest" technology all the time. There are Windows computers with USB3. There are notebooks that have an SD card slot in addition to an ExpressCard slot. Apple's next move is always tough to guess/predict.

I wouldn't be surprised if the matched the imac lineup C2D in everything but the 17" and i5 in the 17" with i7 as a BTO. The clock speeds would be lower than the imac line though. Of course I'm hoping for more.
That's what I was thinking. I was looking at the iMac lineup and see nothing but Core 2 Duos except for the BTO options with the Core i5s and i7s.

Looking at the iMac lineup, I could guess that the MacBooks and 13" MacBook Pros would stay Core 2 Duo. The i5s and i7s would probably be reserved for BTO options only. Like you, I'm dreaming that this will not be the case.
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Mar 17, 2010, 01:21 AM
 
Like many, I am ready to buy a new Macbook Pro, but the delay is preventing me from purchasing. The Dell XPS Studio 16 is looking more and more appealing...
     
Simon  (op)
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Mar 17, 2010, 04:34 AM
 
The question if we'll see Core on all MBPs or just the 15"/17" is bugging me too right now.

A friend of mine has $1200 to spend on a 13" MBP. She doesn't have to buy right now so I told her about the pending updates and that she might want to wait. But that was two months ago and the wait has been long. She's eager to get a new MBP soon. I noticed the other day that the current high-end 13" MBP is available as a refurb for also about $1200.

Now if the 13" MBP stays Penryn the current high-end model will become the new low-end model at $1200. In such a case she could get the refurb right now for the same amount and not have to wait another day. OTOH if the 13" MBP is updated to Core and possibly sees other changes (new ports? new case?) pushing her to the 2.53 GHz 13" refurb now might be a bad idea. I've laid it all out to her, but she's not a geek and really has no idea what to do. OTOH I can't make the decision for her. I'm trying to get her to wait another two weeks or so, but I can see she's running out of patience and I understand that.
     
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Mar 17, 2010, 04:49 AM
 
Yeah. Not knowing what Apple is up to is starting to piss me off, as well.

Inventory is starting to run seriously low, though.
     
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Mar 17, 2010, 02:09 PM
 
At the time of the last iMac refresh, the only possible Nehalem-class chip was Lynnfield: A big (~300mm2), expensive and powerful chip. Below that, there was nothing, and the natural step down in Intel's scheme of things was Wolfdale - 45nm desktop Core 2. Wolfdale was smaller, cheaper and slower - perfect.

The CPU availability situation for laptops today is the direct opposite. Intel has Arrandale throughout it's market segments - the only exception is Celeron at the bottom, which Apple never uses. Arrandale is smaller than Penryn (81mm2 CPU die, compared to Penryn's 107mm2, and the difference increases further if you start including the chipset), available at the same pricelevels and is more powerful at the same price. Add in Optimus only working with Arrandale integrated graphics (for now) and it's a slam dunk. There is absolutely no reason to refresh the laptops if you are going to put Penryn in them.
The new Mac Pro has up to 30 MB of cache inside the processor itself. That's more than the HD in my first Mac. Somehow I'm still running out of space.
     
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Mar 17, 2010, 09:19 PM
 
Could be that thats why apple is waiting this long to refresh them. I suspect they might expand the macbook lineup as well. It would make sense to update the MB, MBP and air in one swoop.
     
 
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