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shifuimam · Jan 28, 2010, 08:28 AM

I'm looking for experience from 13" MBP owners - what is the heat like? I'm talking about the previous-gen 13" models with SD slot and FW 800 that are currently in the Apple refurb store. I want a laptop that I can game on, and the 9400GM that's in the 13" is adequate for 3D gaming, according to the research I've done (benchmarks + opinions from people). However, I plan on primarily using it in bed and otherwise on my actual lap, so I'm a little concerned about how hot it gets, particularly with the aluminum enclosure and with the intended use (gaming is going to be quite a bit more CPU-intensive than browsing and whatnot, obviously).

Right now I'm deciding between a Dell Studio 14z and a last-gen refurb 13" MBP (if I end up getting a job with Apple), so some input on the heat issue would be appreciated.

mduell · Jan 28, 2010, 01:01 PM

The aluminum case gets much hotter than a plastic case does. You can't keep it on bare skin.

9400m is in no way adequate for modern 3D gaming.

shifuimam · Jan 28, 2010, 02:02 PM

Juding from both the benchmarks and the answers I've gotten from people who own laptops with this new chipset, it will be fine for 3D gaming. It's not top of the line, but it outperforms the lowest-end discrete GPUs from ATI.

Simon · Jan 28, 2010, 03:37 PM

Originally Posted by mduell

The aluminum case gets much hotter than a plastic case does.

Nonsense.

My old black MB is a lot warmer to touch than the new unibody 13" MBP under load. The MB is plastic, the MBP is Al. Just because the case is metal does not mean it will become "too hot to touch".

Originally Posted by mduell

You can't keep it on bare skin.

One word: hysteria.

mduell · Jan 28, 2010, 06:18 PM

Originally Posted by Simon

Just because the case is metal does not mean it will become "too hot to touch".

No one said it was. I can touch it, but I wouldn't leave it on my bare knees.

Cold Warrior · Jan 28, 2010, 07:45 PM

The refurb models should be current-generation, just refurbished. Clearance though tends to be prevous-gen.

I have a refurb purchased in November and the heat isn't an issue. On pants I don't even notice the heat; on skin it feels warm but doesn't hurt. I don't do any gaming, which would clearly bring up the temps.

Simon · Jan 29, 2010, 02:01 AM

Any 13" MBP will get warm under load. But it's no problem to have it touch your skin as anybody who actually uses one can assure you. You'd have to run it under full load for extended periods of time to get it heated up to the point where it becomes uncomfortable to have on your lap. In this respect the MBA and bigger MBPs (with dedicated GPUs) are worse.

shifuimam · Jan 29, 2010, 01:28 PM

I looked on NotebookReview.com, and it seems like the Studio 14z is about 15 degrees cooler than the 13" unibody MBP when under stress.

The scenario I'm looking at is lots of gaming in bed, sometimes for several hours straight. I suspect my laptop desk will be getting more use, no matter what I end up buying. I have a friend with a 15" unibody MBP, and he says that it's incredibly unstable in Windows because of the discrete GPU. I'm hoping that the 13" won't have that problem since it only has the integrated graphics, especially since I'll be running Windows at least as often as OS X (the MMO I play is Windows-only).

It's still up in the air, especially since I don't actually have the Apple job yet, and I'll wait until I've gotten a few paychecks before I spend any money on a new computer.

amazing · Jan 29, 2010, 03:36 PM

Hopefully the Apple job will bring you some rebates. Also, it's best to buy right after new models are introduced, because that's when you can get tremendous discounts as stores clear out inventory of the previous models. That's provided you're interested in the previous generation models...but the steep discounts really do help stay within budget.

For gaming in bed, where the covers will prevent heat from dissipating off the metal skin, you're gonna need a laptop cooler. Just be sure to get a cooler with fans that flow air at the bottom surface, which is a much more effective cooling method. Laptop cooler that such air away from the bottom surface and exhaust the air out the rear are much, much less effective.

Bearsfan34 · Jan 31, 2010, 10:42 PM

Whoever says that the current gen MacBook Pro 13" isn't "adequate for 3D gaming," I say:

Bunk.

I use mine plenty for PC gaming. Battlefield 2142, BF2 & all its mods, C+C, TF2, Unreal Tournament...and the games play and work and look great. All this on Windows 7 Professional. Frame rates are terrific for a notebook. Same experience as if you're using a geeked-out desktop with a Core i7 64-bit machine with 8GB of RAM? Duh, no. But for gaming on the go or "in bed," the MBP will work just fine.

shifuimam · Jan 31, 2010, 11:02 PM

Bearsfan34 - two questions.

How stable is Win7, specifically with hibernate and sleep and other power management stuff? What kind of battery life do you get?

Also, how's the heat? That's my main concern.

Bearsfan34 · Feb 1, 2010, 12:32 AM

So far, Win7 has been fine. Truthfully, I'm not really running a ton of Windows "apps" for productivity or anything. The sole purpose I have a Boot Camp partition is just for games. I honestly have not tested hibernate/sleep or really anything, since I reboot only to get into Windows to play games...& then I back out & reboot back in to OSX.

I can tell you that the other day I was running a little low on battery (like 40%) when I booted in to Windows; I played for about 45 minutes; Alt+Tabbed back to the desktop and saw I was at around 19%...so playing a FPS with a disc spinning and settings on medium, not bad. Not "great," but not bad.

I have noticed that the MBP does get warmer playing games in Windows than it ever does even doing intensive tasks in OSX. For that, I use an iLap 13" that I bought for my old white MacBook I sold last year. Absorbs the heat wonderfully, Gaming with the trackpad is NOT easy however...I have to use a mouse.

mduell · 02:22 AM

Originally Posted by Bearsfan34

Whoever says that the current gen MacBook Pro 13" isn't "adequate for 3D gaming," I say:

Bunk.

I use mine plenty for PC gaming. Battlefield 2142, BF2 & all its mods, C+C, TF2, Unreal Tournament...and the games play and work and look great.

It's a 2 generation old low-end mobile chipset. You're digging up a couple games over a decade old to find decent performance, furthering my point it's not adequate. The rest of your list is from 2005, 2006, and the newest is 2007 although based on an engine from 2004.

Adequate IMO is delivering usable framerates (30fps) at native res in last years games, and there's no way it's doing that. Per notebookcheck it doesn't hit 30fps in Crysis, a 2007 game that a lot of people still play, at XGA (less than native) resolution. 3D games released over the lifespan of this machine are only getting more complex. 9400M is adequate only if you're satisfied forever playing the best of 5+ years ago.

shifuimam · 11:32 AM

I'd like to kindly ask you to quit talking about how the chip can't perform unless you have experience with it. I've actually asked people previous to this thread who have laptops with the 9400M to test games, and the performance seems perfectly fine to me.

You're seriously saying that it must suck for games because it can't play frigging Crysis at high quality, high res, and high framerate? Are you kidding me? Crysis may be from 2007, but it's still the de facto game to test whether or not a video card is top of the line. Saying that a GPU sucks because it can't handle Crysis is like saying a car sucks because it's not a Ferrari.

The games that I play will perform perfectly fine on this card. I know this for a fact, because I've researched it from people who own machines with this GPU and play the games that I play (which include modern games - nobody said that this card can play current-generation 3D games at the highest resolution and graphics settings, which is not what I'm aiming for in a laptop anyhow).

Quit thread crapping and move on, kthxbai.

mduell · Feb 1, 2010, 04:44 PM

Originally Posted by shifuimam

I'd like to kindly ask you to quit talking about how the chip can't perform unless you have experience with it. I've actually asked people previous to this thread who have laptops with the 9400M to test games, and the performance seems perfectly fine to me.

Thanks for acknowledging I'm fully qualified to participate, having used a 9400M MacBook for a while.

Originally Posted by shifuimam

You're seriously saying that it must suck for games because it can't play frigging Crysis at high quality, high res, and high framerate? Are you kidding me? Crysis may be from 2007, but it's still the de facto game to test whether or not a video card is top of the line. Saying that a GPU sucks because it can't handle Crysis is like saying a car sucks because it's not a Ferrari.

No, I said nothing about high quality, high res, and high framerate. I'm talking about low quality, medium res, and moderate framerate. You know, something that people would describe as adequate.

Originally Posted by shifuimam

The games that I play will perform perfectly fine on this card. I know this for a fact, because I've researched it from people who own machines with this GPU and play the games that I play (which include modern games - nobody said that this card can play current-generation 3D games at the highest resolution and graphics settings, which is not what I'm aiming for in a laptop anyhow).

If we're all playing Doom 2 forever then the G3 iBooks have "adequate 3D performance" and you've made the phrase completely meaningless. To assess the adequate 3D performance for a new laptop today you must look at games from the past few years and the expectations for the next few.

Simon · 03:02 AM

Originally Posted by mduell

If we're all playing Doom 2 forever then the G3 iBooks have "adequate 3D performance" and you've made the phrase completely meaningless. To assess the adequate 3D performance for a new laptop today you must look at games from the past few years and the expectations for the next few.

No, actually she told you what she's interested in. She already knows 3D performance is good enough for what she plans to do in terms of games:

Originally Posted by shifuimam

The games that I play will perform perfectly fine on this card.

It's you who refuses to ignore her interests and instead tries to sidetrack this discussion into something about advanced gaming in order to slam the MBP. Why don't you just for once try to actually worry about the OP's question rather than rant entirely off topic? How many people on this board do you seriously believe are that keen on your misguided tirades about the alleged shortcomings of Apple products?

In the words of the OP: quit thread crapping. What you're doing here is disruptive and really quite grating.

shifuimam · Feb 2, 2010, 07:39 PM

Originally Posted by mduell

Thanks for acknowledging I'm fully qualified to participate, having used a 9400M MacBook for a while.

Great. So instead of obnoxiously insisting something I know to be categorically false, how about answering my original questions?

How's the heat on it when it's under stress?

Have you installed Windows on it? How is stability and battery life?

mduell · Feb 2, 2010, 08:05 PM

Originally Posted by shifuimam

Great. So instead of obnoxiously insisting something I know to be categorically false, how about answering my original questions?

How's the heat on it when it's under stress?

Have you installed Windows on it? How is stability and battery life?

The bottom of the case too hot to keep on bare legs; ok with a layer of clothing. The top of the case (where the keyboard/trackpad is, not behind the display) is cool enough to rest your hands on, although the lip is often uncomfortable on wrists.

Yes, I installed Windows for Steam. Apple's drivers for Windows are ok w/r/t stability, not great; I had one crash right after installing Apple's drivers. Battery life is hard for me judge since my usage in Windows (only there for games with high CPU load) differs from my typical usage in OS X (most of the time browsing the web and other light CPU tasks).