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You are here: MacNN Forums > Hardware - Troubleshooting and Discussion > Mac Notebooks > Retina MBP Battery replacement issues

Retina MBP Battery replacement issues
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Jan 19, 2013, 11:03 PM
 
I'm extremely frustrated about the response I got from Apple when trying to get a replacement battery for my Retina MBP. I love my laptop but after this experience I'm going to think long and hard whether it is good to give into Apple.

My Macbook pro has problems running under battery power (doesn't start up at all) but runs just fine under AC power. When Apple service looked at it, they said it had liquid damage. My computer hasn't been anywhere near any liquids. They wanted $1800 to fix the computer. That's bogus. So I looked at it more closely and found out it's JUST the battery that needs replacing. It says this in the System Report in OSX - AND I borrowed another computer and swapped main boards to verify. Went back to the Apple store and they told me they CAN'T sell me a battery and service won't do a replacement. They told me specifically that I either had to buy a new computer or pay the $1800 to replace the motherboard and a new battery.
They wouldn't sell me a battery (and corresponding cover, keyboard and trackpad) so i can do this myself. The Genius (yeah - some genius...) said to go look at other outlets like Ifixit.com or similar to see if they have options... That doesn't sound promising. So I'm kind of out of luck per-se.

Does anyone know of any alternate outlet that sells the battery and top half cover that the battery is glued to??

****After this experience - I HIGHLY recommend anyone to NOT get a retina macbook and the new imacs. Why?? Because these computers are end of service products. In absolutely no way can a user change anything on their own. If they determine that it is out of warranty, you have absolute no way of fixing it unless you opt for their total overhaul price which is almost the cost of a new one. Since parts are impossible to source elsewhere and Apple will absolutely not sell you a part, your only option is to throw it away or sell it to someone else and let it be their problem. After being a lifelong Apple customer and an original distributor of Macs in the 1990's in Eastern Europe, I am extremely disheartened to see Apple go down this path of preventing the customer from having some options of customization (in fact going to ZERO options). Either have it their way or no way at all. Sad.
     
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Jan 20, 2013, 03:10 AM
 
This is all I could find for you on ifixit. It's better than nothing, I suppose.

MacBook Pro 15" Retina Mid 2012 Parts - iFixit
     
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Jan 21, 2013, 02:33 PM
 
and now you got to tell us how you were treated unfairly. and probably a few other sites also. and in person to some of your associates. apple got to where they are now by having a loyal fan base. they've made a few decisions lately that's making a few of us scratch our heads. i'll stay with apple...........their older products that i can run my older software on. that can actually be repaired. not that i would expect apple to honor any warranty because i smoke around my machines. i also use firewire 400 and optical drives. daily.i am sure some will consider me to be a troll but i just have to wonder what direction is apple headed in these days. word of mouth is powerful and i'm sure they're getting their share of some bad mouthing.
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Jan 21, 2013, 03:28 PM
 
The retina MacBook Pros are the awesomest computers Apple has built since the Macintosh SE/30, but the Awesome™ comes at a high price (not just monetarily).
     
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Jan 21, 2013, 10:21 PM
 
Thanks for the ifixit link. I did see that but I think it's more like a place holder since I've never seen this in stock.

I'm just ranting just because if enough people see this post in the future (perhaps far future) and make a stink to Apple, perhaps they just might listen. I'm not asking for anything free. I'm more than willing to pay a FAIR amount - but to REQUIRE me to replace a main board when that isn't bad just because they want to get it back to "their specifications" that's just being a legal crook. The battery is bad and I need a replacement. If Apple wants to void my warranty so that I can replace it on my own - so be it. I'm willing to shoulder that responsibility.

Because they probably have a million patents on the battery - I'm not going to find this ever as a third party part which means they have a total monopoly at this.

I do have a electronics engineer on staff and I have a relatively good handle on electronics repair as well as surface mount tech knowledge. I wanted to avoid messing around the insides of the computer but now that they don't give us a reasonable alternative, at least I can start poking around the battery and the power management to figure out where the problem actually lies. Maybe if we can figure it out, we can even publish this so that others who have the same problem can bypass the expensive and ridiculous alternative.

The battery itself I am sure is working and the main board is probably ok. I'm thinking the small rider board on the battery that communicates with the main board is at fault. In fact, I wonder if Apple has rigged it somehow to make us think the battery and/or main board is actually bad but isn't???? (conspiracy theory LOL). The reasoning for this is that I let the computer sit for a few days and the battery naturally discharges a bit. Well, today I plugged it in and the AC adapter showed "yellow" which means it was charging. After about 15 minutes it turned to green - so it means that the computer is able to charge the battery BUT will not allow the battery to power the computer. It's their secretive technology working in the background to force a user to make some drastic remedies.

I loved the Retina MBP up until this point when I realized FIRST HAND that there is an agenda from Apple to prevent the public in upgrading, servicing, and customizing the electronics that they paid top dollar for. We can't service the newest iPhones easily, newest MacBooks, and the new imacs are much worse than the Retina MBP. To me the Mac Pro computers which were totally customizable are essentially end of life (no significant upgrades for years and the imac has surpassed that significantly). I'm angry and sad at the same time while I'm venting writing this.
     
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Jan 21, 2013, 11:43 PM
 
While I hear you- is there any way anyone else could have spilled anything on your computer?

I have the rMBP as well and really love it. It's networked with my old G5 tower and a 24" monitor. It's a blast to use. Sorry about your troubles.
     
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Jan 22, 2013, 01:32 AM
 
I think the situation is easy to understand: if Apple fixes your computer, e. g. by replacing the battery, they are liable for said repair. So if they replace the battery and a damaged main board kills the new battery, they have to replace it again. Damage from spilt liquids are amongst the most insidious. E. g. the screen of my previous MacBook Pro died 6 months after I spilt Apple juice on the keyboard. Drying and cleaning didn't help.

I'm not saying your MacBook Pro has come into contact with water, but just that electronics companies are very conservative when it comes to that. Nikon Germany won't even touch your camera after water damage (I speak from experience).

In my opinion, the only recourse you have is to convince them there has been no liquid spill. Sometimes humidity triggers the spill sensors, for instance.
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Jan 22, 2013, 05:38 PM
 
I thought long and hard about this.. There was no liquid spill on this and trying to convince them otherwise has been difficult. They showed me one picture that looked to have some dirt on there but that was it. My frustration is actually not about any liquid damage issues and who is right BUT about a seemingly simple battery replacement. If I wanted to get a battery replaced, I shouldn't need to have the computer in operating condition as defined by Apple.

Previously, with the older MBP's, you can get a battery anytime you want. If tomorrow I wanted to replace it, I just pop into the Apple store and pick one up. No questions from anyone on the operation of the computer. Right now, they don't have a battery replacement option for me. I can only get one AFTER I agree to a main circuit board replacement (which I am sure is working fine as I am typing on it right now).

According to Apple, the spill sensors were white. They said there were "telltale" signs of liquid damage because there was odd marks on the board and dirt. All I see in the photos are white dust marks. I'm not happy about the assessment -but I'm even more angry about not being able to PAY for a battery when I need one.
     
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Jan 22, 2013, 06:53 PM
 
Originally Posted by macmediausa View Post
Previously, with the older MBP's, you can get a battery anytime you want. If tomorrow I wanted to replace it, I just pop into the Apple store and pick one up. No questions from anyone on the operation of the computer. Right now, they don't have a battery replacement option for me. I can only get one AFTER I agree to a main circuit board replacement (which I am sure is working fine as I am typing on it right now).
Actually, MacBook Pros haven't had user-replaceable batteries for several years. If memory serves me right, the last model which did was the 2009 Core 2 Duo-based MacBook Pro. I have a 2010 model and the battery is not a user-serviceable part. I understand your frustration, but the Retina MacBook Pro didn't change anything in that respect.
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Jan 22, 2013, 07:12 PM
 
Hmmm you are right. I never had to replace my last generation MBP battery - though I can go on Amazon or Buy.com and EASILY purchase a replacement battery if Apple didn't want to sell me one. Right now, there is zero choice.

That reminds me about my experience when at the "Genius" bar... I told him it was ridiculous that I could not buy a battery and effectively Apple has allowed my retina mac to become trash. I told him with a Mercedes, I could go and buy virtually any part of the car (even though I was not factory trained to install it) and do it myself but with the Mac, I couldn't get a simple battery change. He told me - "it's not a Mercedes and you're just out of luck".
Well that's true now.....Thanks - but no thanks
     
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Jan 23, 2013, 01:20 AM
 
I think it comes down to the fact that Apple has decided computers should be more like modern cars: you cannot really tinker with them anymore. The engines are encased in plastic and for most things, you actually need a computer. People buy them and if they break, they take them to a specialist. For computers and cars alike, this has a slew of advantages: e. g. Apple can make computers smaller, the batteries larger and more reliable. But if something goes wrong, you can no longer fix it yourself. For people like us, this is a step down, but most people are not like us. I'm resigned to this fact already, my current MacBook Pro will probably be the last one which I can upgrade myself (I've replaced the hard drive and replaced the optical drive by a SSD).

In a sense, with a non-retina MacBook Pro, you (as an expert) are just a little more lucky: the battery is not glued in place (this is the reason why even ifixit doesn't offer just the battery as spare part, you have to buy the whole upper case assembly for $500 (includes battery ). However, you still need a strange, proprietary trilobal screwdriver to get the old battery out. I have no idea why Apple has decided to superglue the whole battery to the upper case assembly of the Retina MacBook Pro. I reckon they just don't care (although I don't think they make it intentionally hard to screw us over). However, I can't help but think that being able to replace the battery more easily would be a plus for Apple service, too.

Again, I would try again to convince them there is no liquid damage (the water sensors did not go off after all), and I would explain to them that you know what you're talking about. Be polite. (This week, I was lucky and Apple treated me kindly, I did not have to pay for a fan to be replaced, even though my SSD upgrade has voided the warranty.)
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Jan 23, 2013, 04:05 AM
 
Why would an SSD upgrade void the warranty? Optibay?
     
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Jan 23, 2013, 06:23 AM
 
Originally Posted by Spheric Harlot View Post
Why would an SSD upgrade void the warranty? Optibay?
Yes, the DVD drive is not a user-servicable part. But I didn't have to pay anyway, I assume they either did not care after all or saw that I knew what I'm doing (not my fault the ball bearing gave out, Fukuoka is pretty stuffy in the summer ).
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Jan 23, 2013, 06:40 AM
 
Sorry, I'd missed that you explicitly mentioned replacing the optical drive earlier in your post.
     
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Jan 23, 2013, 07:42 AM
 
if i ever get another laptop i'm looking at the 2.13ghz macbook. at least it can be fairly easily repaired.
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Jan 23, 2013, 09:15 AM
 
Originally Posted by gooser View Post
if i ever get another laptop i'm looking at the 2.13ghz macbook. at least it can be fairly easily repaired.
But for how long will you use that machine? I mean, if it weren't for the gorgeous screen of the Retina MacBook Pro (I think I'll get a 13" Retina MacBook Pro next), I wouldn't have any reason to upgrade. I have plenty of cpu horsepower, an SSD, lots of storage space. But in about two years' time, I'm due for an upgrade.
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Jan 23, 2013, 04:56 PM
 
Originally Posted by macmediausa View Post
****After this experience - I HIGHLY recommend anyone to NOT get a retina macbook and the new imacs. Why?? Because these computers are end of service products. In absolutely no way can a user change anything on their own. If they determine that it is out of warranty, you have absolute no way of fixing it unless you opt for their total overhaul price which is almost the cost of a new one. Since parts are impossible to source elsewhere and Apple will absolutely not sell you a part, your only option is to throw it away or sell it to someone else and let it be their problem.
Annnnnnd this is what I hope will be Apple's downfall. Turning a fairly expensive computer into a disposable commodity is bad for customers, bad for the environment, and bad for people who just don't want to buy a new machine every few years - or like messing about with computer hardware. A completely sealed up computer with no replaceable components is a bad idea all around.

It also means that Geniuses will be required to do less and less, which means that a lower caliber of person will qualify for the position, since it will require little to no technical knowledge or skill...and we all know what happens when stupid people start taking over.
     
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Jan 23, 2013, 05:07 PM
 
Originally Posted by OreoCookie View Post
Actually, MacBook Pros haven't had user-replaceable batteries for several years. If memory serves me right, the last model which did was the 2009 Core 2 Duo-based MacBook Pro. I have a 2010 model and the battery is not a user-serviceable part. I understand your frustration, but the Retina MacBook Pro didn't change anything in that respect.
This is true, but the battery in the non-Retina laptops is extremely easy to replace yourself. The only part that makes it "non-serviceable" is three triwing screws holding it into the case. Remove those, pop off a cable (very easily done, it's not glued down or anything), and replace the battery. Very easy.

The rMBPs have a battery that is glued into the top case. Additionally, the battery cells are not protected by an outer plastic housing (your 2010 MBP's battery is), so they can easily be punctured, releasing extremely caustic acid onto you and the stuff around you.
     
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Jan 23, 2013, 05:39 PM
 
Originally Posted by shifuimam View Post
The rMBPs have a battery that is glued into the top case. Additionally, the battery cells are not protected by an outer plastic housing (your 2010 MBP's battery is), so they can easily be punctured, releasing extremely caustic acid onto you and the stuff around you.
The latter is because plastic casing eats space, which either sacrifices battery capacity or portability.

And the former follows almost inevitably from the latter: We've decided to make a compromise that makes these batteries dangerous to work with, so we'll make damn sure nobody can **** with them.
     
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Jan 23, 2013, 08:22 PM
 
Originally Posted by shifuimam View Post
This is true, but the battery in the non-Retina laptops is extremely easy to replace yourself. The only part that makes it "non-serviceable" is three triwing screws holding it into the case. Remove those, pop off a cable (very easily done, it's not glued down or anything), and replace the battery. Very easy.
It's not just hard to replace the Retina MacBook Pro's battery yourself, it is hard to replace the RMBP's battery, period. I don't think Apple's service guys are any more skilled than the guys at ifixit.com. In any case, I completely agree, I cannot fathom why Apple can't find a compromise which would make it easier for their service to replace the battery. However, my point was that Apple has been moving away from »user replaceable« batteries for many years (since at least 2009), and the Retina MacBook Pro is not the first model. I would like to be able to replace the battery myself, but most consumers don't care. They also don't care the lengths Apple's service staff has to go through to replace a battery in a Retina MacBook Pro. (Perhaps they just replace the whole top assembly?)
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Jan 23, 2013, 08:27 PM
 
Originally Posted by shifuimam View Post
Annnnnnd this is what I hope will be Apple's downfall.
Honestly, I think the opposite is true: the rest of the PC industry is headed where Apple is leading. Plus, tablets (which have no history of being user-upgradeable) are becoming more and more common. Even though I don't know for sure, but I reckon it's equally hard to pry open the case of a Microsoft Surface and replace the battery.* Upgrading the memory is out of question, too.

Like it or not, this is where I see the industry is moving, and Apple is just a few years ahead of the curve here.

* Some tablets have SD card slots for memory expansion, I'm obviously not talking about those.
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Jan 31, 2013, 11:28 AM
 
Originally Posted by OreoCookie View Post
It's not just hard to replace the Retina MacBook Pro's battery yourself, it is hard to replace the RMBP's battery, period. I don't think Apple's service guys are any more skilled than the guys at ifixit.com.
Absolutely. I left Apple before they started most of this crap. The only training I had was on the unibody MBA batteries, which used a low-tack adhesive to secure to the underside of the top case.

They also don't care the lengths Apple's service staff has to go through to replace a battery in a Retina MacBook Pro. (Perhaps they just replace the whole top assembly?)
It's entirely possible that these are sent straight to the repair depot. When Apple started allowing hard drives to be pulled from Time Machines for data backup, we didn't do that in-store. It was always done at the depot, because of how freaking hard it is to rip those stupid things apart to get to the drive. Depot labor is a lot cheaper than retail Genius labor. I wouldn't at all be surprised if the new policy is to just ship the machine out and be done with it.

Originally Posted by OreoCookie View Post
Honestly, I think the opposite is true: the rest of the PC industry is headed where Apple is leading. Plus, tablets (which have no history of being user-upgradeable) are becoming more and more common. Even though I don't know for sure, but I reckon it's equally hard to pry open the case of a Microsoft Surface and replace the battery.* Upgrading the memory is out of question, too.

Like it or not, this is where I see the industry is moving, and Apple is just a few years ahead of the curve here.

* Some tablets have SD card slots for memory expansion, I'm obviously not talking about those.
Here's the problem.

An ARM-powered tablet is a disposable device. They're usually pretty cheap - less than $400, unless you're shooting for an ultra-premium device - and reach their end-of-life relatively quickly compared to computers.

Spending $300 on a tablet is not the same as spending $1700 on a laptop or desktop. When you're spending well over a grand on a computer, do you really buy it with the expectation that in less than five years you will have absolutely no choice but to buy another high-priced computer?

Not only that, but that laptop or desktop is used for a lot more than a tablet, and has a lot more stuff on it that you care about. We've now reached the point with Apple's hardware that, if there is some kind of hardware failure, it is effectively impossible to get to your data. Should you have backups? Of course! But what happens if you take your laptop on vacation and don't bring your Time Machine with you, and you're working on a project when your MacBook shits itself? It's not like previous generations, where you can pop out the hard drive, stick it in a $10 USB enclosure, and see all your stuff. It's turned into a much fancier dog-and-pony show.

It's even worse with the new iMacs. They're completely sealed shut, and there are far more potential hardware failures that could prevent an iMac from POSTing (like a simple blown capacitor on the internal power supply), and again, you're left without any way to get to your data.

I dearly hope that the rest of the PC hardware industry is not going to move toward disposable, sealed, inaccessible computers. It would be the worst possible thing to happen to enterprise IT, and there are a hell of a lot of computer geeks like me who have no interest in dropping cash on something that they can't actually do anything with.

Plus, if you think that e-waste is a problem now, it's going to skyrocket when we start treating computers like take-out containers.
     
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Jan 31, 2013, 08:22 PM
 
Why not use CarbonCopyCloner and just select System and Apps to clone to the SSD?
     
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Feb 1, 2013, 04:24 AM
 
Originally Posted by shifuimam View Post
Here's the problem.

An ARM-powered tablet is a disposable device. They're usually pretty cheap - less than $400, unless you're shooting for an ultra-premium device - and reach their end-of-life relatively quickly compared to computers.

Spending $300 on a tablet is not the same as spending $1700 on a laptop or desktop. When you're spending well over a grand on a computer, do you really buy it with the expectation that in less than five years you will have absolutely no choice but to buy another high-priced computer?.
The market is changing completely, and you're missing it:

In a few years' time, the only people spending $1700 on a computer will be either those with plenty of (literally) "disposable" income, and those who actually REQUIRE a computer for work. In which case, it's a business expense and written off after three years (actual time may vary with country of residence). After that time, it becomes "disposable", and is either replaced, or stays around until repairs/upkeep exceed remaining value minus the tax benefit of writing off a replacement.

EVERYBODY ELSE will be just fine with an iPad, or an entry-level (as per Apple's definition) laptop.
     
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Feb 1, 2013, 06:14 AM
 
Originally Posted by shifuimam View Post
Depot labor is a lot cheaper than retail Genius labor. I wouldn't at all be surprised if the new policy is to just ship the machine out and be done with it.
I wouldn't be surprised either. That's how it works with other expensive electronics, too, e. g. professional laser printers (the ones which cost $$$$). I remember when we had a problem with the mechanics of a big HP LaserJet. The guy from the service didn't even bother trying to figure out where the problem was (perhaps it was just one malformed cogwheel, who knows), he just proceeded to replace a large part of the mechanics. Apparently that was cheaper. Ditto with any problem on logic boards or faulty power supplies: they just replace the whole thing even if the problem is a single capacitor which could in principle be replaced. My first computer, an Amiga 500, came with schematics for all circuit boards! So in principle, the manufacturer expected people to fix these kinds of problems themselves

Those days are gone for good and things like (internal) upgradability are pushed into niche markets, e. g. the enthusiast market or workstation market.
Originally Posted by shifuimam View Post
Spending $300 on a tablet is not the same as spending $1700 on a laptop or desktop. When you're spending well over a grand on a computer, do you really buy it with the expectation that in less than five years you will have absolutely no choice but to buy another high-priced computer?
Yes, my update cycle is 4-5 years, after that time frame, I replace the hardware. But I don't think that will change if Apple hermetically seals the MacBook Pros shut. When I got my current machine, it came with the memory maxed out (8 GB), so even though I could replace the memory modules, I cannot upgrade the memory itself. In fact, that's how it has been for the last 8~9 years, from my second iBook on (with a puny 800 MHz G3), all my mobile Macs came with their memory maxed out (or I purchased the RAM alongside the machine). I've only regularly upgraded hard drives. However, the fact that (affordable) SSDs are too small to hold all of my data has required me to adapt by storage strategy anyway, the benefits of SSDs is just too substantial to be able to live without them again.
Originally Posted by shifuimam View Post
I dearly hope that the rest of the PC hardware industry is not going to move toward disposable, sealed, inaccessible computers. It would be the worst possible thing to happen to enterprise IT, and there are a hell of a lot of computer geeks like me who have no interest in dropping cash on something that they can't actually do anything with.
They already are, the writing is on the wall. Just look at PC ultrabooks, most of them take more than just design queues from MacBook Pros and MacBook Airs. Dell is looking to buy back its shares before massively restructuring the company (you can guess in which direction they want to be going). And more and more companies bring Chrome books to the market (cheap, disposable laptops). Tablets (which are closed) will replace a sizable share of the mainstream computing market, pushing ordinary PCs towards the edges of computing. Of those »ordinary« PCs, more and more will ape the MacBook Air.

It's a bit of a miracle that upgradable PCs have survived that long: if you look at all those beige boxes under office desks and such, how many are actually upgraded? In my experience, they are bought and are replaced after a few years. In a few years, I'm sure only workstations (think Mac Pro or IBM Intellistation) will be upgradable in the sense we know it today.
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Feb 7, 2013, 11:31 AM
 
Originally Posted by Spheric Harlot View Post
In a few years' time, the only people spending $1700 on a computer will be either those with plenty of (literally) "disposable" income, and those who actually REQUIRE a computer for work. In which case, it's a business expense and written off after three years (actual time may vary with country of residence). After that time, it becomes "disposable", and is either replaced, or stays around until repairs/upkeep exceed remaining value minus the tax benefit of writing off a replacement.
I think what you're missing is that the end user consumer PC market is not where the money is. Enterprise is where the real profit lies. Multimillion dollar hardware and support contracts are where Dell and HP and Lenovo make the bulk of their profit, not selling shitty low-end machines to people who are just going to use them for Twitter.

Apple has been pushing very hard to get into the business market since at least 2008. They started dedicating resources at their retail locations for this purpose, and pressuring their retail staff to push business customers to move to Mac at their companies.

A Fortune 500 company might have a three-year lifecycle on hardware and a special contract with Apple that allows them to replace defective machines on demand with very little delay.

And, because it's impossible to manage large quantities of iOS devices in an enterprise environment (particularly when it comes to software on those devices, since Apple's App Store is the only legal way to put apps on an iPad or iPhone), migrating away from real computers to mobile devices isn't a real solution at all.

A company with a few hundred employees will not. They don't have the time or money or resources to afford replacing their entire business's hardware every three years. They need to be able to spend $100 here and there to keep their machines running much longer than that.

What about students, who are required to use certain software to complete their courses (MatLab comes to mind, as well as the software used for law students studying for the bar exam in their state - saw a TON of those when I was at Apple, as the school year was wrapping up)? As Apple gets more and more restrictive with their iOS hardware, it's not going to be easy to replace a real computer with an iPad for that kind of stuff.

Of course, there is also another problem - tablets rely heavily on the cloud. We are signing away more and more of our personal information to businesses looking for a profit as we put more and more of our stuff in the cloud. I, for one, have little interest in that. The "freedom" of the cloud comes with a pretty hefty price.

Originally Posted by OreoCookie View Post
The guy from the service didn't even bother trying to figure out where the problem was (perhaps it was just one malformed cogwheel, who knows), he just proceeded to replace a large part of the mechanics. Apparently that was cheaper.
So with that in mind, consider this:

If Apple no longer expects their retail support guys - the Geniuses - to actually fix their machines, what will Geniuses be?

You know the answer. Geniuses will be little more than paper-pushers, who run simple diagnostics on the machine, fill out a form, and tell the customer, "come back in a week". There is no skill involved in this at all. No longer will Apple need to send their Geniuses to three weeks of specialized training. No longer will Geniuses need in-depth technical knowledge of the hardware they support. The dumbing-down of the Genius role will absolutely result in stupider employees and crappier service. If your post-purchase service goes to shit, that's one less reason to buy a Mac. I'm not saying it'll stop people from continuing to buy Apple products, but it definitely isn't going to help the company any.

I saw this same thing happen when I worked at Starbucks, and the company decided to retrofit all of their locations with fully-automatic espresso machines. The machines cost more up front and cost more to service, but they saved money in the long run because they enabled making beverages much more quickly than with a manual machine.

On the other hand, quality of product and quality of service went to crap, because the person making my $4 latte was doing nothing but pushing a button and waiting for the machine to finish doing its thing. Why should I spend that much on something that isn't handcrafted, when I can go to the Dunkin' Donuts across the street and get the exact same thing for half the price?

Those days are gone for good and things like (internal) upgradability are pushed into niche markets, e. g. the enthusiast market or workstation market.

Yes, my update cycle is 4-5 years, after that time frame, I replace the hardware. But I don't think that will change if Apple hermetically seals the MacBook Pros shut. When I got my current machine, it came with the memory maxed out (8 GB), so even though I could replace the memory modules, I cannot upgrade the memory itself. In fact, that's how it has been for the last 8~9 years, from my second iBook on (with a puny 800 MHz G3), all my mobile Macs came with their memory maxed out (or I purchased the RAM alongside the machine). I've only regularly upgraded hard drives. However, the fact that (affordable) SSDs are too small to hold all of my data has required me to adapt by storage strategy anyway, the benefits of SSDs is just too substantial to be able to live without them again.
What happens if the RAM goes bad?

Apple's policy - unless it's changed since I left - is that you have 0% guarantee that your data will be maintained once a machine is shipped out to a repair depot. It's up to you to have a backup.

But what if one of the silicon chips of your soldered-on RAM craps out while you're working on something, and you don't have a chance to back up your work before your machine dies? You can't even yank the drive before sending the machine to Apple, just in case.

Hell, when I was there, I had a guy come in who used his machine to work on classified projects. I took his machine apart at the Genius Bar and handed him his hard drive before checking in his laptop. He told me that if i hadn't been able to do that, he would have had to go elsewhere to get his machine fixed, because of the sensitivity of what was on the drive.

It's a bit of a miracle that upgradable PCs have survived that long: if you look at all those beige boxes under office desks and such, how many are actually upgraded? In my experience, they are bought and are replaced after a few years. In a few years, I'm sure only workstations (think Mac Pro or IBM Intellistation) will be upgradable in the sense we know it today.
As mentioned before - small businesses are much more likely to make their IT investments stretch out for as long as they can, so I'd imagine they are doing things like upgrading the RAM in those beige boxes. It's a lot cheaper than buying all-new machines.

I just look at a lot more at how these decisions are going to affect the future of enterprise IT, because that's the biggest market. It's where the money is. They're really the customers who hold the cards. When Dell outsourced all of their tech support to India, businesses pushed back hard. The end result was that Dell had to bring their support back to the United States for all of their business lines. Otherwise, they were going to lose customers left and right.

I just can't get behind turning an expensive, premium device into a disposable commodity. It's so wasteful it makes my head hurt.
     
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Feb 7, 2013, 01:05 PM
 
This thread has certainly expanded out from my original troubles. Just an update.

I was really fortunate enough to buy a few NEW spare batteries in China. I don't know where they came from BUT they certainly look original Apple to me. Everything right down to the labels and circuit board looks genuine. Each battery has that really sticky double sided tape that Apple uses to tack down onto the case. I got several - so I can get into the business of repairing other Retina computers from my experiences.

Getting the old battery out of the Retina was originally almost impossible. I can't believe how sticky the tape is and using pliers, wedges, etc would barely budge the battery. I put so much pressure on one of the cells that the plastic covering ruptured and I caused a spark short. I immediately stopped there and brainstormed.
LIGHT BULB! ---- I went and got a hairdryer and heated the PALM side of the case. I'm guessing to about 150 degrees or so. Took a metal ruler and attempted to pry each cell out. Well guess what - the batteries came out like butter. I didn't attempt to heat up the trackpad portion as I didn't know how heat would affect it - but it was a bit easier with that location as the batteries were stuck onto smooth stainless steel plates which has less grabbing power over aluminum. I took a can of compressed air and sprayed UPSIDE DOWN into the small gap between the battery and trackpad to freeze the adhesive. It started to come out easier and with a razor blade I slowly cut the adhesive while occassionally putting more freeze liquid.

The battery came out within 5-10 minutes. I put in the new battery and VOILA!! Computer started up like magic.
SOOO - here's my huge gripe. Apple tried unsuccessfully to RAPE me by replacing the main board and the battery by charging me $1800. Good thing I balked at that. They wouldn't sell me a battery OR let me pay for just a battery only install. So after spending $200 to get a replacement battery and 20 minutes of my time my computer is back to new. It's now out of Apple warranty but to me no spilt milk because I ended up buying a Square Trade warranty which covers any damage including liquid if I get unlucky.

I'm so ticked off about the way I was treated at the "Genius Bar" that I'm trying to figure out why this originally all came about. This is ONLY a guess but what I think is that somehow the power management board that is ATTACHED to the battery got shorted and because of a low voltage situation prevented power from being supplied FROM the battery to the computer. Not a problem the other way around as the computer was able to charge the old battery. I'm trying to no figure out how to reset this so I wouldn't have needed to go through such a drastic repair. Can't do it through software as I can see for now but trying to decipher what the individual IC chips do on that circuit board. When I find out, I will post it so others don't get hung out to dry as I did.
     
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Feb 7, 2013, 04:33 PM
 
Thanks for the update.

It's pretty effed up that the Genius you worked with wanted to charge $1800 to replace a battery on an in-warranty laptop. If you have the case open again, look for some little white or pink dots. If they're pink or red, those are tripped liquid damage sensors. If they're all still white, you're in the clear and the Genius was BSing you.

Those sensors are insanely sensitive and can get tripped just from ambient moisture if you have your laptop in a bag and are waiting for the bus on a rainy day. It's possible one of them was tripped from something through no fault of your own.

It's also possible that one of them was marginally pinkish and the genius claimed liquid damage in order to get out of doing the repair. It happens plenty.
     
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Feb 7, 2013, 06:02 PM
 
Obviously it's out of warranty now - since I changed out the battery. But NONE of the white liquid detectors have changed color. ALL of them are very clean white. Even the battery control board has 2 dots on there and 2 dots on the battery themselves - clean white.

The Apple store here in West Nyack NY took the computer in and they sent it to their repair center (TX??). About 3 days later I get an email saying that there was liquid damage and they took photos. The photos have some white dust on the parts that they took photos of and one of the heat sink lines had this wavy pattern on there. He said there was evidence of liquid damage but DID NOT show any of the dots contaminated.

Thinking back, I should have complained louder as this is pretty unacceptable. There wasn't any liquid damage that I was aware of and I think the photos is just of dust and humidity "setting" the dust onto the surfaces of the IC chips. I was so incensed by the way that the "genius" was talking to me that I just stormed out of there telling him that I was going to post my experiences on-line to warn people of the poor design of these newer computers (meaning it's a throw away product).

At least these posts will be permanently available for all to see for years to come. Either I can assist people having the same issues with self repair OR get people to think twice about getting something so user UNfriendly in terms of recycling, repair and most importantly out of warranty issues that may pop up.
     
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Feb 7, 2013, 06:38 PM
 
I'd write to Apple corporate about this. They shouldn't have just sent it off to the repair center without doing any diagnostics on what was actually wrong. If the liquid indicators aren't tripped and there is no visible corrosion on any of the internal components, they can't claim liquid damage just for the sake of saying it. It doesn't really work that way.

Can you post copies of the photos that were taken by the repair center?

At this point, while it's true that you voided the warranty by replacing an internal component yourself, it's inexcusable that you were treated that poorly at the Genius Bar, and it's equally inexcusable that a liquid damage claim was made if there was no indication of such damage.

Also worth pointing out that the enormous hassle involved in replacing any component in these new MBPs makes the goddamn repair depots more likely to claim liquid damage, too, to get out of doing a complex and potentially dangerous repair.

And they can, when you think about it, cause liquid damage to your machine and claim it was your fault, and you're never the wiser.
     
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Feb 7, 2013, 08:23 PM
 
Here are the photos that they provided me. There's some dirt but no photos of the liquid detectors - which are all white.....









( Last edited by macmediausa; Feb 7, 2013 at 08:31 PM. Reason: Remove identifying information from me)
     
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Feb 8, 2013, 09:26 AM
 
Well, there is visible corrosion on the logic board in the second photo. On the black plastic sheet bit in the third photo, that looks like dried liquid of some kind.

While I do think it's a little suspect that none of the liquid sensors are even slightly pink, the amount of corrosion on the board is consistent with Apple's policy regarding what constitutes liquid damage.

Since you know that the machine's never been around liquid, I'd start trying to think about when someone else might have used it or been around it when you weren't. Someone may have had an accident and failed to tell you, because of the simple fact that people are assholes who protect their own interests over someone else's almost universally.

Trust me - I know how it feels to be screwed over when you know you haven't done anything, but unfortunately the depot's claim of liquid damage is considered valid in this case. Something had to have happened to that machine, even if not by your own hand.

You've already voided the warranty, so I would highly suggest pulling the machine apart, removing the logic board, and cleaning it thoroughly. Look online for the best tips on cleaning corrosion off a board. With the amount visible in that picture, you're almost certainly going to have problems down the line with the machine.
     
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Feb 8, 2013, 10:16 AM
 
You know - I did see that in the photo but going to the chip, it was more like dust frosting and I blew it out with compressed air. If it was real corrosion, it would need to be scraped out or using an electronics cleaner.

Honestly, to me it wasn't ever about the liquid issue (even though it wasn't subjected to any liquid damage), it's just Apple's response about making me buying virtually a new computer when all I needed was a battery. There wasn't even an option to PAY for a new battery. That's my big gripe and what my hope to educate current users and future buyers of this big limitation for those who may want to replace a battery.
     
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Feb 10, 2013, 07:54 AM
 
I can understand that completely.

The rMBPs are deliberately designed with permanently-installed batteries that are not meant to be replaced. Ever.

Apple's claim is that this was necessary to fit everything into such a slim case. The fact is, this is forced obsolescence, no matter how you spin it.
     
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Feb 10, 2013, 08:34 AM
 
One does not exclude the other.

Whether it's forced obsolescence in the name of better products ("better" in this case meaning slimmer and more portable) or not is immaterial.
     
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Feb 11, 2013, 06:57 PM
 
I have a problem with a forced obsolescence scheme that creates an unbelievable amount of waste.

Battery dies in your MBP? Throw it in the garbage! GPU goes out on your iMac? Throw it in the garbage!

It's not even just about the cost of these disposable devices. It's the WASTE. It's the fact that this stuff is literally going to end up in landfills at an alarming rate compared to hardware that can be upgraded and repaired to extend its life. That's a problem.
     
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Feb 11, 2013, 07:53 PM
 
I really have a problem of Apple getting that EPEAT gold certification after seeing how undisposable these batteries in the rMBP are.
Removing that battery from the aluminum case is so difficult - I can't imagine how a recycler deals with these parts. They are going to spend a ton of time trying to separate the 2 parts. Try doing that to several hundred thousand of these.... Chances are that not just one single company is going to be doing this. There will be millions of these computers all over the world and some companies won't even try to separate them and some perhaps will waste precious time in doing so.

If Apple wanted to replace BOTH my logic board AND battery - when only the battery needed replacement, that doesn't fit the description of being Epeat gold
     
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Feb 13, 2013, 04:40 AM
 
Originally Posted by shifuimam View Post
I think what you're missing is that the end user consumer PC market is not where the money is. Enterprise is where the real profit lies. Multimillion dollar hardware and support contracts are where Dell and HP and Lenovo make the bulk of their profit, not selling shitty low-end machines to people who are just going to use them for Twitter.
You are right. But Apple has entered the enterprise market from the side, and it's not really Macs that have become commonplace in many companies, but it's the push by iOS devices which have become, really, really popular. Many businesses have even figured out that RIM (now Blackberry) is on its way out. (Of course, there are large companies that have started to deploy Macs on a serious scale, but the big push comes from iOS devices.)
Originally Posted by shifuimam View Post
And, because it's impossible to manage large quantities of iOS devices in an enterprise environment (particularly when it comes to software on those devices, since Apple's App Store is the only legal way to put apps on an iPad or iPhone), migrating away from real computers to mobile devices isn't a real solution at all.
Companies can and do deploy their own apps to iPhones and iPads. My best friend is an app programmer and at his last job, his company was making an app for a German insurance company to help manage their real estate. He was offered a job for a company which was charged to bring a supply chain management app for Audi to the iPad. So much for the myth that the iPad is only a consumption device. The growth for apps tailored to (usually larger) companies is huge.
Originally Posted by shifuimam View Post
A company with a few hundred employees will not. They don't have the time or money or resources to afford replacing their entire business's hardware every three years. They need to be able to spend $100 here and there to keep their machines running much longer than that.
That depends on what kind of company you're talking about. Many have horrible, horrible IT management, they will keep hardware far too long, do not have a good backup strategy (sometimes no backup at all), etc. And larger companies have service contracts anyway where they just get their machines replaced (e. g. that's the way it works at my brother's workplace with Dell machines). That means, very little is fixed in-house with »normal« hardware.
Originally Posted by shifuimam View Post
What about students, who are required to use certain software to complete their courses (MatLab comes to mind, as well as the software used for law students studying for the bar exam in their state - saw a TON of those when I was at Apple, as the school year was wrapping up)? As Apple gets more and more restrictive with their iOS hardware, it's not going to be easy to replace a real computer with an iPad for that kind of stuff.
As it stands now, for most students, an iPad is a companion device. This has nothing to do with »closed vs. open« or how upgradeable and repair-friendly hardware is, but just that iOS and other tablet OSes are not there yet.
Originally Posted by shifuimam View Post
Of course, there is also another problem - tablets rely heavily on the cloud. We are signing away more and more of our personal information to businesses looking for a profit as we put more and more of our stuff in the cloud. I, for one, have little interest in that. The "freedom" of the cloud comes with a pretty hefty price.
That sounds more like a personal attitude (which is fine with me) rather than something technological. You are uneasy about putting so much of your data in the cloud. But there are clear advantages to using the cloud, and cloud support becomes increasingly important. Dropbox has seriously improved the way I work with colleagues, for instance.
Originally Posted by shifuimam View Post
If Apple no longer expects their retail support guys - the Geniuses - to actually fix their machines, what will Geniuses be?
Perhaps they will become more software-centric geniuses? Getting the software and services right seems to be much harder than getting the hardware right. I don't think it's in Apple's interest at all to cheap out on geniuses in the future.
Originally Posted by shifuimam View Post
What happens if the RAM goes bad?
… then you need to replace the logic board. This sucks, I know from experience. But it's not new either, many years ago, soldered-on RAM for laptops was quite common. My first Mac, a PowerBook G3 Kanga (aka PowerBook 3500) had RAM soldered onto its motherboard. And I had to have the logic board replaced because of it. I was lucky with my iBooks in that regard, though. IMO, you're pointing the real problem, though, it's repairability and not upgradeability (as I said, all of my machines I purchased within the last 8 years or so I bought with the RAM maxed out).
Originally Posted by shifuimam View Post
As mentioned before - small businesses are much more likely to make their IT investments stretch out for as long as they can, so I'd imagine they are doing things like upgrading the RAM in those beige boxes. It's a lot cheaper than buying all-new machines.

I just look at a lot more at how these decisions are going to affect the future of enterprise IT, because that's the biggest market. It's where the money is. They're really the customers who hold the cards. When Dell outsourced all of their tech support to India, businesses pushed back hard. The end result was that Dell had to bring their support back to the United States for all of their business lines. Otherwise, they were going to lose customers left and right.
Dell is in the process of re-inventing themselves. That's why they are in the process to buy back all the stocks. If you look at the market segments which grow significantly and the market segments Dell is in, you know which direction Dell is going to go in.
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Feb 13, 2013, 02:27 PM
 
Originally Posted by OreoCookie View Post
You are right. But Apple has entered the enterprise market from the side, and it's not really Macs that have become commonplace in many companies, but it's the push by iOS devices which have become, really, really popular. Many businesses have even figured out that RIM (now Blackberry) is on its way out. (Of course, there are large companies that have started to deploy Macs on a serious scale, but the big push comes from iOS devices.)

Companies can and do deploy their own apps to iPhones and iPads. My best friend is an app programmer and at his last job, his company was making an app for a German insurance company to help manage their real estate. He was offered a job for a company which was charged to bring a supply chain management app for Audi to the iPad. So much for the myth that the iPad is only a consumption device. The growth for apps tailored to (usually larger) companies is huge.
Well, I didn't know about that option, so that is interesting to me - but how much does it cost? Theoretically a company could create their own market for distributing Android apps at zero cost to anyone outside the company. What kind of fees or royalties does Apple charge to allow the distribution of in-house apps, considering that stock iOS prohibits installing apps from anywhere but the App Store?

There's also the management of a large number of devices. Before I lost my job, I was on track to start learning more about how my agency could support iOS and Android devices. Unfortunately, I didn't get that far - but I did do enough with the BlackBerry universe to very clearly understand the importance of large-scale asset management when it comes to mobile devices. I know that there are products available for both Android and iOS, like McAfee Enterprise Mobility Manager, but I doubt they're as fine-tuned as what a BES can do.

I'd really like to see RIM give up on the BlackBerry OS and start working on a managed custom Android ROM that they run on their own devices. You'd get the same end-to-end support with a more widely used OS that has more to offer than BBOS.

Incidentally, the federal government in the US (I think it's NIST but can't remember off hand) is working on a custom Android ROM that is secure, locked down, and manageable on a large scale. If/when that happens, Apple's going to need to seriously consider what they can do with iOS to make it as appealing to the enterprise.

That depends on what kind of company you're talking about. Many have horrible, horrible IT management, they will keep hardware far too long, do not have a good backup strategy (sometimes no backup at all), etc. And larger companies have service contracts anyway where they just get their machines replaced (e. g. that's the way it works at my brother's workplace with Dell machines). That means, very little is fixed in-house with »normal« hardware.
This is absolutely true, but I do think that losing the option to ever replace or upgrade something is a big deal.

As it stands now, for most students, an iPad is a companion device. This has nothing to do with »closed vs. open« or how upgradeable and repair-friendly hardware is, but just that iOS and other tablet OSes are not there yet.
I agree - right now, iPads can't replace computers. As mobile OSes mature, that will change. Hopefully academia can keep up!

That sounds more like a personal attitude (which is fine with me) rather than something technological. You are uneasy about putting so much of your data in the cloud. But there are clear advantages to using the cloud, and cloud support becomes increasingly important. Dropbox has seriously improved the way I work with colleagues, for instance.
Computing started with mainframes, then moved to personal computers. We're sort of going back to mainframes now, although in a different context. If there are any really big personal information leaks from guys like Facebook or Twitter, people may start reconsidering how much personal information they want to share online. Just my two cents.

I'd kind of like a local cloud option. Businesses could find use in that, too.

Perhaps they will become more software-centric geniuses? Getting the software and services right seems to be much harder than getting the hardware right. I don't think it's in Apple's interest at all to cheap out on geniuses in the future.
Perhaps not, but I think it will be inevitable. Less knowledge will be required to do the job, which means stupider people will be applying for the jobs. I know one of the biggest reasons I applied was because I'd get to work on computer hardware all day. Troubleshooting errors in Console (which didn't happen nearly as often as hardware issues, btw) isn't nearly as fun.

… then you need to replace the logic board.
That's not it. Is it actually cost-effective to replace a logic board on a machine, when it takes 45 minutes to actually get to the logic board because the machine is glued shut? It wouldn't be surprising to see machines just get junked rather than refurbished, because the cost of doing so is going to get so high.
     
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Feb 13, 2013, 03:37 PM
 
Shif, it's not too much effort to read through Apple - iPhone in Business and the corresponding iPad site to get an idea of what device management and deployment options Apple offers to business users.

IIRC, they have been able to deploy internal apps since iOS 2 or 3. iOS 3 brought installable profiles, and iOS 4 brought real, remote device management.

I'm not sure you even need to be a registered developer to do this, but if you do, that's a whopping $100 up-front cost.

As for a "local cloud option": most businesses use device management and Exchange for that, don't they? Both of which Apple has supported for some years, now.
     
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Feb 13, 2013, 04:50 PM
 
Originally Posted by shifuimam View Post
Well, I didn't know about that option, so that is interesting to me - but how much does it cost? Theoretically a company could create their own market for distributing Android apps at zero cost to anyone outside the company. What kind of fees or royalties does Apple charge to allow the distribution of in-house apps, considering that stock iOS prohibits installing apps from anywhere but the App Store?
Again, Apple specifically allows companies to distribute apps to their iOS devices ever since the app store has launched. So it's incorrect to say that iOS prohibits installing from anywhere but the app store.

Regarding costs, Apple charges for the company for an enterprise developer account, but other than that, there are no fees and no royalties whatsoever. (Why should there even be royalties, Apple doesn't collect royalties on anything in the app store, it doesn't charge anything for free apps either.) You can find more info here and here.
Originally Posted by shifuimam View Post
There's also the management of a large number of devices. Before I lost my job, I was on track to start learning more about how my agency could support iOS and Android devices.
I asked the friend who is in iOS and Android mobile app development about that. You can basically pre-load apps on iOS devices by making a custom »image« of the iOS install and distribute that. Or employees can download apps internally. If I understood him correctly, one way to do that is by just downloading the app from a website.
Originally Posted by shifuimam View Post
Unfortunately, I didn't get that far - but I did do enough with the BlackBerry universe to very clearly understand the importance of large-scale asset management when it comes to mobile devices. I know that there are products available for both Android and iOS, like McAfee Enterprise Mobility Manager, but I doubt they're as fine-tuned as what a BES can do.
I know that such tools exist, too, but I haven't worked with any of them, so I don't know how they compare. However, iOS devices are deployed/in the process of being deployed in mid- and large-sized company (Audi certainly qualifies as large), but there are also smaller apps. E. g. iPads are used on trade shows to help people navigate (at his previous job, this was one thing he had to do very often). So there must be a way to conveniently manage these devices.
Originally Posted by shifuimam View Post
Incidentally, the federal government in the US (I think it's NIST but can't remember off hand) is working on a custom Android ROM that is secure, locked down, and manageable on a large scale. If/when that happens, Apple's going to need to seriously consider what they can do with iOS to make it as appealing to the enterprise.
I think that already exists. I've heard that the President has an ObamaBerry which exactly matches your description.
Originally Posted by shifuimam View Post
This is absolutely true, but I do think that losing the option to ever replace or upgrade something is a big deal.
Perhaps it is. But they'll get used to it. If only because they have no choice. And it's not as if they're the favorite customers of any PC vendor anyway.
Originally Posted by shifuimam View Post
I agree - right now, iPads can't replace computers. As mobile OSes mature, that will change. Hopefully academia can keep up!
I hope so, certainly. Things are moving in that direction, but we're certainly not there yet.
Originally Posted by shifuimam View Post
I'd kind of like a local cloud option. Businesses could find use in that, too.
Omnigroup will go that route: they are working on OmniSync which is based on WebDAV and other open standards. You can either use OmniGroup's own server, someone else's server or setup your own. It's a nice option. But running and managing a server well is a pain. YMMV. And I do understand your privacy concern, there is a reason I don't use gmail.
Originally Posted by shifuimam View Post
That's not it. Is it actually cost-effective to replace a logic board on a machine, when it takes 45 minutes to actually get to the logic board because the machine is glued shut? It wouldn't be surprising to see machines just get junked rather than refurbished, because the cost of doing so is going to get so high.
That may very well be. But when you say cost-effective, you're just thinking about the act of repairing it. But if you put everything together (ease of manufacturing, simplification in the number of supported configurations, more optimizations in terms of space, ability to potentially use low-power memory, etc.), the (financial) benefits may outweigh the downside. I think Apple has taken this into consideration when making the decision to go this route. (Again, I agree with you, a more easily repairable machine would be a good thing for users and Apple repair staff alike.)
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Feb 14, 2013, 10:02 AM
 
Originally Posted by OreoCookie View Post
Again, Apple specifically allows companies to distribute apps to their iOS devices ever since the app store has launched. So it's incorrect to say that iOS prohibits installing from anywhere but the app store.

Regarding costs, Apple charges for the company for an enterprise developer account, but other than that, there are no fees and no royalties whatsoever. (Why should there even be royalties, Apple doesn't collect royalties on anything in the app store, it doesn't charge anything for free apps either.) You can find more info here and here.
Well, I was referring more to iOS as it comes in the retail box - which doesn't allow you to install .ipa packages manually. That being said, I really didn't know that this was an option - I'm glad Apple's had the foresight to make this available.

As far as large-scale management is concerned, I think it might be more a case of "we have no choice" right now. I'm not sure the tools currently available are as mature as what RIM's BES solution can do. But again, that's just a matter of time.
     
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Feb 14, 2013, 11:52 AM
 
Originally Posted by shifuimam View Post
As far as large-scale management is concerned, I think it might be more a case of "we have no choice" right now. I'm not sure the tools currently available are as mature as what RIM's BES solution can do. But again, that's just a matter of time.
Well, the solution with RIM is in a sense the opposite: better server-side management, but feature-wise, the clients are lacking. And what is worse for RIM, many companies are migrating or have migrated elsewhere.
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Feb 15, 2013, 04:09 PM
 
Just take your MacBook to a local authorized reseller who is also a repair center instead of an Apple retail store. They will treat you a lot better than that retail store. Also don't be a cheap ass about it, replacing the battery in a retina MacBook Pro can be real dangerous.

Find one here: http://www.applespecialist.com/
     
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Feb 15, 2013, 07:20 PM
 
Little late for that, bro. He already replaced the battery.
     
   
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