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pbmikez · Nov 12, 2006, 03:18 PM

Have you contacted Apple yet Spaz? I'm curious as to what they'll tell you.

MartyMcSly · Nov 12, 2006, 04:03 PM

Has anyone tried the following:

- Looked at the screen while windows XP (under bootcamp - not parallels) is running to see if the issue is still present.

- Hooked the MBP up to an external display (try both LCD - glossy and/or matte and CRT to be sure).

- Not sure if this is possible - but maybe there is a way to connect an external source (maybe another computer of some sort) up to the MBP's screen!?

I'll be getting my MBP C2D Glossy next week (hopefully mon or tue) and I'll do some testing too.

When I was in the MAC store deciding on what screen to go for I was checking out a glossy and a matte side by side. I'm pretty sure these weren't C2D ones - however, I could see a marked grainy effect in the matte that wasn't present in the glossy display. I remember checking them out at all levels of brightness too (but didn't check the system prefs. for 16 bit colours or anything). I really hope that apple haven't chosen a cheaper supplier of glossy screens for the C2D revision B models! Otherwise I'll be harassing those supposed 'geniuses' down at the store. LOL, in my experience the geniuses have been as retarded as the spotty freaks in PCWORLD who pretend to know about computers! Christ! A GCSE in computing doesn't make you an expert people!

Jeez, I need to calm down and stop ranting!

pbmikez · Nov 12, 2006, 04:40 PM

Originally Posted by MartyMcSly

Has anyone tried the following:

- Looked at the screen while windows XP (under bootcamp - not parallels) is running to see if the issue is still present.

- Hooked the MBP up to an external display (try both LCD - glossy and/or matte and CRT to be sure).

- Not sure if this is possible - but maybe there is a way to connect an external source (maybe another computer of some sort) up to the MBP's screen!?

I'll be getting my MBP C2D Glossy next week (hopefully mon or tue) and I'll do some testing too.

When I was in the MAC store deciding on what screen to go for I was checking out a glossy and a matte side by side. I'm pretty sure these weren't C2D ones - however, I could see a marked grainy effect in the matte that wasn't present in the glossy display. I remember checking them out at all levels of brightness too (but didn't check the system prefs. for 16 bit colours or anything). I really hope that apple haven't chosen a cheaper supplier of glossy screens for the C2D revision B models! Otherwise I'll be harassing those supposed 'geniuses' down at the store. LOL, in my experience the geniuses have been as retarded as the spotty freaks in PCWORLD who pretend to know about computers! Christ! A GCSE in computing doesn't make you an expert people!

Jeez, I need to calm down and stop ranting!

The issue is also under Windows XP. Originally this was thought to be a WinXP only issue, as the way OS X deals with dithering is different, but now it's evident in both. I've hooked the MBP up to an external display and the ext. display looks the way it normally looks without the grain.

TheSpaz · Nov 12, 2006, 05:54 PM

Originally Posted by pbmikez

The issue is also under Windows XP. Originally this was thought to be a WinXP only issue, as the way OS X deals with dithering is different, but now it's evident in both. I've hooked the MBP up to an external display and the ext. display looks the way it normally looks without the grain.

Check your private messages man.

Oh, did you try an external LCD monitor or was it CRT. Because if it's a dithering issue, it probably matters what kind of display you hook up to it.

polendo · Nov 12, 2006, 07:51 PM

I just read the other pc threads.. it has to be a BIOS thing (and not the screen quality as I suspected). Just for the record here is a thread from notebook review in which I state the grainy screen on the Compaq which is dated back in November 2005. I just checked the compaq site to see if they got a new BIOS and nope.. none.

Horrible HP screens! - Notebook Forums and Laptop Discussion

TheSpaz · Nov 12, 2006, 09:57 PM

Originally Posted by polendo

I just read the other pc threads.. it has to be a BIOS thing (and not the screen quality as I suspected). Just for the record here is a thread from notebook review in which I state the grainy screen on the Compaq which is dated back in November 2005. I just checked the compaq site to see if they got a new BIOS and nope.. none.

Horrible HP screens! - Notebook Forums and Laptop Discussion

This sucks. It's probably never going to get fixed because only a small amount of people even see it or even care. Most people just shrug it off thinking it's how it's (supposed) to be or something. All I know is, I don't like it. And yes, the screen does look sparkly (that's a good word to use... grainy is okay but, sparkly everyone knows what that looks like. It seriously looks like there's dust all over my screen and it makes me want to wipe it but, I can't because it's already clean.

atc ben · Nov 12, 2006, 09:58 PM

Originally Posted by TheSpaz

This sucks. It's probably never going to get fixed because only a small amount of people even see it or even care. Most people just shrug it off thinking it's how it's (supposed) to be or something. All I know is, I don't like it. And yes, the screen does look sparkly (that's a good word to use... grainy is okay but, sparkly everyone knows what that looks like. It seriously looks like there's dust all over my screen and it makes me want to wipe it but, I can't because it's already clean.

Are you gonna call Apple tomorrow, or should I?

TheSpaz · Nov 12, 2006, 09:59 PM

Originally Posted by jasonsRX7

The Rev A Macbook Pro that I had was grainy. I called it "sparkly" at the time. I am typing this on a glossy Macbook that isn't grainy at all, it looks great. I've got a matte C2D MBP on the way, and if it has a grainy screen, I am sending it back and getting glossy. The MBP screen should look at least as good as the Macbook, but the ones I've seen so far haven't. My old Powerbook screen looked better than the MBP.

I noticed you said you have the glossy MacBook (which none of the MacBooks have this problem). I think you'll get the MBP and realize that you're gonna return it and then you'll get the glossy and it will have the same effect, so what will you do then?

TheSpaz · Nov 12, 2006, 10:00 PM

Originally Posted by atc ben

Are you gonna call Apple tomorrow, or should I?

Are you good at talking on the phone? Cause I suck at phones.

atc ben · Nov 12, 2006, 11:04 PM

I just downloaded this small LCD Test app, and you can really see the sparkle effect when you run the Gradients pattern.

jasonsRX7 · Nov 13, 2006, 12:17 AM

Originally Posted by TheSpaz

I noticed you said you have the glossy MacBook (which none of the MacBooks have this problem). I think you'll get the MBP and realize that you're gonna return it and then you'll get the glossy and it will have the same effect, so what will you do then?

Well I didn't think about the fact that it is a CTO with the 160gb drive, so I don't think the 14 day return policy applies to me. I'll just have to live with it, I guess, but at least I'll be using it on a 30" Cinema display most of the time, so I won't have to look at it. I'll use the Macbook when I'm on the road.

iomatic · Nov 13, 2006, 12:41 AM

I don't see it. I see a little banding between green and red, but that's about it.

TheSpaz · Nov 13, 2006, 08:41 AM

Originally Posted by iomatic

I don't see it. I see a little banding between green and red, but that's about it.

Try looking at solid green. It should be solid but, it's sparkly instead.

outthere · Nov 13, 2006, 12:59 PM

Originally Posted by TheSpaz

Are you good at talking on the phone? Cause I suck at phones.

well, could someone call apple please, and see what they say?
it seems that every apple's screen, except MBs, has this grainy thing; i wonder why no one has mentioned it before, and thanks to thespaz for bring this up

BadApple · Nov 13, 2006, 01:34 PM

This thread makes me worry about my new 15" MBP (C2D). Even though I have not noticed it when I was using for the last several days, I feel I may notice this grainy screen issue. I was hoping my MBP will be defect free as my other Macs have been defect free to this day.

TheSpaz · Nov 13, 2006, 02:49 PM

Originally Posted by BadApple

I was hoping my MBP will be defect free as my other Macs have been defect free to this day.

That kind of contradicts your user name ;-)

TheSpaz · Nov 13, 2006, 03:06 PM

From a user on the Apple Discussions forum:

"The 18-bit thing is simple. Each "pixel" on your LCD screen is actually made up of 3 subpixels: red, green, and blue, very close together. In "millions of colors" mode, each of these subpixels should have 256 possible values, from 0 (off) to 255 (full bright). This is 8 bits per subpixel (2^8 = 256) also known as 24-bit color, for a total of 2^24 = 16,777,216 displayable colors.

Some cheaper/faster desktop LCD displays (and, apparently, notebook displays) are only capable of displaying 6 bits per subpixel, or 18-bit color, totalling 2^18 = 262,144 colors. I didn't know the MBP had one of these unfortunate displays, but apparently it's common.

Dithering is placing a lower number of colors in a certain pattern to trick your eye into seeing a higher number of colors. This is done by the video card automatically. So, -if- this theory is correct, the speckled pattern is coming from normal dithering.

Now apparently the x1600 is supposed to do "temporal dithering" which involves altering the color of -the same pixel-, quickly enough to mitigate the pattern effect you're going to get from dithering. From what I can tell from the message board threads, this is stuck in freeze-frame (or the dithering is just really bad) due to a video BIOS bug.

The problem is, who knows if this is the actual issue, and if it is, it was apparently fixed a while ago, so why would they ship like this? Also, it means everyone should be seeing this issue, unless some people got 24-bit displays (unlikely).

Regardless, this gives some cause for hope. Thanks!"

betonfoot · Nov 13, 2006, 08:18 PM

I' ve read from other forums (http://www.notebookforums.com/thread173555.html) that the same grain issue appears on other PC laptop screens with ATI Mobility X1600 graphics card aswell. Asus provided a bios update for the card, and it resolved the issue!

When is Apple going to release a bios update? This is very embarassing to Apple, which advertises its computers to be made for media people working with graphics etc. We have been waiting for a fix for almost a year now. I can't use my MacBook Pro for work because the graphics quality is appalling. The grain appears even on the Mac OS X. I'm very disappointed.

StiZeven · Nov 13, 2006, 09:17 PM

I personally don't think the problems with the sparkle/grain of the MBP have anything to do with that Asus notebook with that deep 'grain' issue. Have you seen the pics? That's clearly a GPU issue - you don't have to be an expert to see that. The grainy effect on their screens are more like artifacts due to a glitch in the GPU - where on the MBP, it's more of a subtle sparkle due to it being in the panel's coating.

The issue with the MBP is the panel itself (I know, I sound like a broken record, but it's so obvious that it's frustrating to see people think otherwise). The only way Apple will be able to fix this problem is to change the LCD panel brand in the MBP (which happens often during the life of a notebook revision as they shift parts).

Since there is nothing technically wrong with the MBP LCD (other than it not being the best one out there in terms of quality), don't expect anything from Apple except a 100% refund when you return it (I didn't tolerate a 'restock fee' and nor should anyone else). If Apple sees a significant number of customers returning their $2K+ MBPs, perhaps then they'll actually do something about it (like use a better LCD panel).

To me, there are 4 things that are a MUST when I am in the market for a notebook - and smooth, bright and clear glossy screen, silent operation (within reason), stylish design, and solid build quality. If Apple would have used the same LCD panels as Sony does in some of their VAIOs, it would have been a 4/4 for me.

TheSpaz · Nov 13, 2006, 09:31 PM

Okay. So it's the coating on the display. That clears that up then. Anyways... how do we get a better screen? Are we stuck with this one until our next computer purchase? I mean... if Apple doesn't count it as a defect, then what are we supposed to do. Just deal? I still have a few more days to bring my computer back... if I bring it back, I'll have to pay the restocking fee and then wait until they build a better computer before I can buy a new one again? This is bogus.