[jswayze]

Ok, for whatever reason I've now got the bug to build an Athlon-based cruncher. Me being me, I also want to eat my cake too and have the ability to play PC-only games on this with my PC friends.

Here's a deal at a local computer store that sounds pretty good, but I really have no idea what I'm getting into, so I'm hoping some of you folks can help:

http://www.microcenter.com/specials/promo_offers.html

Middle of the page, two different Athlon 2400+ deals, each with a different board, both $129.

I guess I need a reality check - how much more would I have to sink into this to get a working machine? I've got a box and power supply from an old PC. I assume I'll need a HD and controller, a network card (currently free at MicroCenter), RAM, a sound card and a graphics card. Oh yeah, and an OS.

What am I missing? Would this board make a good DC cruncher and also let me play games? Is there a better deal out there?

TIA for the help.

Jeff

[Scotttheking]

There is no such thing as an Athalon.
It's Athlon.

That said, am I the only person who get the info for the same board on either link? I see a shuttle KT266 chipset based motherboard.

[jswayze]

OK, obviously I don't know an Athlon from an Athalon (or a Xeon from a Xenon for that matter). Thanks for enlightening me.

You're right - the links are messed up. Here are working links to the two boards I can choose from:

http://www.microcenter.com/single_pr...duct_id=162926

http://www.microcenter.com/single_pr...uct_id=0155303

[OneMacGuy]

Originally posted by jswayze:
OK, obviously I don't know an Athlon from an Athalon (or a Xeon from a Xenon for that matter). Thanks for enlightening me.

You're right - the links are messed up. Here are working links to the two boards I can choose from:

http://www.microcenter.com/single_pr...duct_id=162926

http://www.microcenter.com/single_pr...uct_id=0155303

I would definitely choose the Shuttle AK38N, it can use the Athlon XP Barton chip and the other cannot. The XP2500 Barton is the best deal going on chips right now. It can be had on pricewatch.com for $83 including shipping. BTW, they also list that motherboard for under $50 delivered. I have been using motherboards by ASRock lately for good performance cheap machines.

The K7VM4 motherboard by ASRock can be had from pricewatch.com for around $65 delivered. It will support a Barton XP chip and also has an 8X AGP slot for the same price as your older model shuttle mobo.

[mikkyo]

A cruncher is easy.
A small used hard drive, some new ram, and old box, old PCI display card and power supply (not too old).
Building a game machine is a lot different.
You can pay more for your display card than you did for the box.
Lots of RAM, Superfast AGP card, good sound(if you want that kind of thing) and you can hit $500.

If you are just doing a cruncher you can even get a box going for around $175 if you have access to old stuff.

[jswayze]

OK, I've decided to build a cruncher only. I don't have enough time for games anyhow.

Found an AMD Barton 2500+ pkg for $92 and an ASRock mobo for $60 at NewEgg. I can get a 256MB DDR PC2700 DIMM for $30 locally.

Do you think I can get the CPU for less or is this a decent deal? Also, is 256MB enough RAM?

I plan on using an old Packard Bell box for my PS, and I'll need to dredge up a small HD somewhere. I've got a display card, and I just bought some $25 802.11b PCI cards off of eBay so I can stick this machine in my basement where it's always cool.

What about an OS? I've got a couple OEM copies of Windows 98 that I could use, but what about Linux? I want to maximize speed, so interface is not that big of a deal.

Thanks for your help. I should be cruching in a week or two.

BTW, FWIW, my Xeon workstation at work is absolutely thrashing my home DP 1GHz G4 on F@H. I plan on putting my G4 back on SETI (or something that is a little more efficient) once I get the Athlon machine up and running.

Jeff

Originally posted by mikkyo:
A cruncher is easy.
A small used hard drive, some new ram, and old box, old PCI display card and power supply (not too old).
Building a game machine is a lot different.
You can pay more for your display card than you did for the box.
Lots of RAM, Superfast AGP card, good sound(if you want that kind of thing) and you can hit $500.

If you are just doing a cruncher you can even get a box going for around $175 if you have access to old stuff.

[Scotttheking]

CPU is fine, mobo I've never used, but I don't see anything wrong with it. If you can OC, that's good, because those barton chips OC well.
Ram, I personally have just been buying crucial, but cheap generic works too, I guess.
For the PS, you need to check 2 things. First, is it ATX, and second, is it at least 250W. Yes I know you can run with less, but you need a good PS at less.
What video card do you have?
NIC, sounds fine, if you can get it all working.

I personally use linux, as it's easier to remote monitor, free, I can set it up fast, and it's stable.


For the xeon system, what are the specs? dual xeon? hyperthreading? Just curious.

[OneMacGuy]

Originally posted by jswayze:
OK, I've decided to build a cruncher only. I don't have enough time for games anyhow.

Found an AMD Barton 2500+ pkg for $92 and an ASRock mobo for $60 at NewEgg. I can get a 256MB DDR PC2700 DIMM for $30 locally.

Do you think I can get the CPU for less or is this a decent deal? Also, is 256MB enough RAM?

I plan on using an old Packard Bell box for my PS, and I'll need to dredge up a small HD somewhere. I've got a display card, and I just bought some $25 802.11b PCI cards off of eBay so I can stick this machine in my basement where it's always cool.

What about an OS? I've got a couple OEM copies of Windows 98 that I could use, but what about Linux? I want to maximize speed, so interface is not that big of a deal.

Jeff

The Barton 2500 for $93 at NewEgg is about as good as you are gonna find with a factory heatsink and fan. If you want to use an aftermarket cooler, they have the same CPU in an OEM version without the fan for $85. The factory cooler is fine unless you want to really try some serious overclocking.

The two ASRock mobos that NewEgg carries are not their best models by several generations. The best mobo from them is a K7VM4:

Base on VIA® KM400 chipset and AMD® XP Processors, the K7VM4 equiped with Hybrid Booster™ - A Safe Overclocking Technology by ASRock. Users now can reduce the risk of hardware damage by overclocking . Packed with the features such as onboard video, AGP8X, 5.1 channels audio, 10/100Mbs Ethernet Lan, four USB 2.0 ports, Micro ATX form factor and ASRock U-COP™ Technology.

Notice the built in video and overclocking ability. Also, their earlier model that NewEgg sells, the K7VM2 does not support the Barton chips. This mobo will also make into a realy decent gaming machine! I found the K7VM4 here for $65 with FREE ground shipping:

http://www.pcdirect.com/product.asp?Sku=MBASK7VM4

I would be careful with the cheap memory. I used to use it to build systems that I sell, but in the past 6 months the cheap memory seems to have gotten unreliable. I have had so many failures of new cheap memory that I now only buy Corsair, Kingston or Geil memory. It does cost more though. If you buy PC3200 DDR, it is about the same price as the minimum required memory for the Barton 2500 (333 Mhz or PC2700)and it gives you some serious headroom for overclocking. NewEgg has the 256 MB Kingston PC3200 DIMM for $42.

One last thing, I buy a ton of this stuff on the internet from different vendors. If NewEgg has it and their price is close, I get it from them. They are one of the best vendors on the internet for computer parts. Great return policy, easy to work with, and generally one of the lowest prices around. (No, I do not work for them or own stock in them!)

[mikkyo]

Nice that board(K7VM4) is micro ATX as well.
But can it netboot and run RedHat or Debian?

It says it is $79.99 BTW.

[OneMacGuy]

Originally posted by mikkyo:
Nice that board(K7VM4) is micro ATX as well.
But can it netboot and run RedHat or Debian?

It says it is $79.99 BTW.

If you hit the order button and apply the Promo Code of pricewatch, it drops to $65 with no shipping charges. I got to it from the http://www.pricewatch.com web site and it was done automatically for me. It comes with some Linux drivers on the CD, I do not remember which ones though. It is a standard VIA chipset and I think that the answer is yes on all of those counts. I can let you know a little later tomorrow, I will try to start this one up with a hard drive that already has RedHat 9 on it and see what happens.

[jswayze]

OK, got the mobo for $65 - thanks. I think I've got everything I need on hand or on order - except for an OS. Can I get Linux for free somewhere? Is that the OS of choice for pure crunching or are there better options? I'm assuming that Windows 98 (which I have available) is not the most efficient way to go.

[OneMacGuy]

Originally posted by jswayze:
OK, got the mobo for $65 - thanks. I think I've got everything I need on hand or on order - except for an OS. Can I get Linux for free somewhere? Is that the OS of choice for pure crunching or are there better options? I'm assuming that Windows 98 (which I have available) is not the most efficient way to go.

Not being a unix guru, I run XP. You can downlaod complete CD's of ReDhat 9 or Mandrake from their vendor's web site. I have both sets downloaded and I am not using them (could not quite get any of the DC clients running under them), I could send you a set of CD's if you want them.

After trying to get two different flavors of Linux running on homegrown hardware, I can really appreciate what an incredible job Apple did of gettiig a friendly face , that works, put on OSX!

[Welnic]

Setting up linux is educational, it is what I run on all of my pure folding boxen. The easiest way is to download a CD image and burn that. The last distribution that I used was Mandrake and it was not too hard to figure out.

Win 98 though I think works pretty well for most projects. I know that it is good for dFolding as long as you run it with the -qt switch as it wastes a lot of processor time putting the ascii symbols on the terminal. I know that windows is definitely better than linux for f@h because of the client, and I think that applies to 98 also.

You could start with 98 and then set up a dual boot system if wanted to play with linux.

[jswayze]

OMG - thanks for the offer for the CDs, but I think I'll start with Win 98 as I can get going right away. Also, I want to use one of these D-link wireless host adapters so I can put the machine in my basement where it's cool. I didn't see Linux drivers for the card, but I'll check on SourceForge and see if anything's available.

Thanks again to all for your help.

Originally posted by Welnic:
Setting up linux is educational, it is what I run on all of my pure folding boxen. The easiest way is to download a CD image and burn that. The last distribution that I used was Mandrake and it was not too hard to figure out.

Win 98 though I think works pretty well for most projects. I know that it is good for dFolding as long as you run it with the -qt switch as it wastes a lot of processor time putting the ascii symbols on the terminal. I know that windows is definitely better than linux for f@h because of the client, and I think that applies to 98 also.

You could start with 98 and then set up a dual boot system if wanted to play with linux.

[jclarkv]

I don't really want to build a cruncher, but I'd probably be willing to spring for one. Where can I buy an Athlon box without an OS?

[Shaktai]

Originally posted by jclarkv:
I don't really want to build a cruncher, but I'd probably be willing to spring for one. Where can I buy an Athlon box without an OS?

I used to have a bunch of links for build to order boxes (no assemble required), but this is the only one I can find now. If you are careful configuring it you can build to order an Athlon 2600 for under $500 or even go all the way up to an Athlon 3000 for under $700 for a dedicated cruncher.

http://www.accessmicro.com/estore/co...mp;OptionSet=3

[jclarkv]

Originally posted by Shaktai:
I used to have a bunch of links for build to order boxes (no assemble required), but this is the only one I can find now. If you are careful configuring it you can build to order an Athlon 2600 for under $500 or even go all the way up to an Athlon 3000 for under $700 for a dedicated cruncher.

http://www.accessmicro.com/estore/co...mp;OptionSet=3

Shaktai,

Thanks for that link. I'm surprised, frankly, that after the Microsoft antitrust ruling I can't seem to find a major brand PC that comes WITHOUT a Windows OS (not even IBM--unless I was looking in the wrong place).

Are you sure there's no way to at least get a tax deduction for this?

[OneMacGuy]

Originally posted by jclarkv:
Shaktai,

Thanks for that link. I'm surprised, frankly, that after the Microsoft antitrust ruling I can't seem to find a major brand PC that comes WITHOUT a Windows OS (not even IBM--unless I was looking in the wrong place).

Are you sure there's no way to at least get a tax deduction for this?

You can also buy a barebones PC on eBay that needs minimal work to complete. Usually just add a hard drive and memory, maybe a CD. They are significantly cheaper, usually around $175 including shipping. I buy them regularly from the vendors online there. Add a $75 hard drive and $75 worth of ram, and you get out for around $300 +/- around $40. Most of these guys use ASRock or PC Chips motherboards. If you can, stick with something other than the PC Chips mobo's. PC Chips is one of the worst supported vendors I have ever used.

I have bought several barebones systems on eBay for around $100 including shipping in the past few weeks. They were real bare though. All they had was the motherboard, case and power supply. But even they had options to add the rest at the vendor's web site that was selling the stuff.

[jclarkv]

Just got a call from the Audi dealer. My '98 A4 needs about 6 Athlon cruncher's worth of work.
Maybe next year.

[OneMacGuy]

Originally posted by jclarkv:
Just got a call from the Audi dealer. My '98 A4 needs about 6 Athlon cruncher's worth of work.
Maybe next year.

Well, I did some more research and found out some interesting stuff that I will send anyway, someone else may find this useful.

Dell Small Business has the PowerEdge PE400SC P4-2.4GHz 800FSB system for $399. Free shipping.

Specs:

Intel® P®4, 2.4GHz,800FSB HyperThreading
128MB DDR, ECC, 333MHz, 1X128MB
40GB 7200 RPM IDE Hard Drive
ATI Rage XL PCI graphic card
3.5 in, 1.44MB, Floppy Drive
No Operating System, Microsoft
Onboard 1000Mbps NIC
48X CD-ROM
1Yr,Parts + Onsite Labor (Next Business Day)
6 x USB 2.0, 1 parallel, 2 serial, 2 PS/2
8x AGP, 4 PCI slots (1 used by video card)
Serial ATA
Integrated Audio

http://configure.us.dell.com/dellsto...oc=pe400scsapp

Just add the P4 2.4 in as a FREE upgrade and off you go. No OS included, need a little more RAM, but a very nice box for the money.

[jswayze]

Yay! I'm up and running on my "cruncher." Of course, FAH stuck me with #678 to start, but I suppose the toughest WU is a good test of the system. I don't expect to do much more with this machine except to stick it in my basement and ping it every once in a while from my G4 to see if it's still alive.

Is there any way to rlogin or SSH into the Win98 PC to check logs, restart the FAH client, etc? I'd rather not have to drag a monitor downstairs every time I want to check the machine.

For those who would find it helpful, I'll list out my whole system with prices. Hopefully I'll be able to add some speed stats within the next day or so.

CPU: AMD Athlon XP 2500+ retail kit, $92 w/free S/H from futurepowerpc.com
Mobo: ASRock K7VM4, $65+tax w/free S/H from microtechcomputers.com
RAM: K-Byte 256MB 333 PC2700, $30 after rebate @ MicroCenter
Power Supply: A1Power 400W dual fan, $29 on sale @ MicroCenter
Case: CompUSA mid-tower ATX, $29 @ CompUSA
Fan: CompuUSA 80mm, $10+tax @ CompUSA
CD-ROM: EPO 58X, $10 after rebate @ CompUSA
Wireless LAN: D-Link DWL-520+, $15 incl. S/H from eBay
HD: 1GB from old PB box, $0
Floppy: stolen from PB box, $0
OS: Win 98 from Compaq Presario box
----------------
Total: $280 (once I get my rebates back)

Not bad considering I could have bought a $30 case w/fan and power supply (would save $38) and I could have used a CD-ROM from another machine, just to get things started (would save $10)

As I'm typing this I'm watching TINKER frame zipping by at 6 minutes/frame. This is at least an order of magnitude faster than one of my 1GHz G4 processors. This ought to be fun...

Jeff

[OneMacGuy]

Originally posted by jswayze:
Yay! I'm up and running on my "cruncher." Of course, FAH stuck me with #678 to start, but I suppose the toughest WU is a good test of the system. I don't expect to do much more with this machine except to stick it in my basement and ping it every once in a while from my G4 to see if it's still alive.

Is there any way to rlogin or SSH into the Win98 PC to check logs, restart the FAH client, etc? I'd rather not have to drag a monitor downstairs every time I want to check the machine.

For those who would find it helpful, I'll list out my whole system with prices. Hopefully I'll be able to add some speed stats within the next day or so.

CPU: AMD Athlon XP 2500+ retail kit, $92 w/free S/H from futurepowerpc.com
Mobo: ASRock K7VM4, $65+tax w/free S/H from microtechcomputers.com
RAM: K-Byte 256MB 333 PC2700, $30 after rebate @ MicroCenter
Power Supply: A1Power 400W dual fan, $29 on sale @ MicroCenter
Case: CompUSA mid-tower ATX, $29 @ CompUSA
Fan: CompuUSA 80mm, $10+tax @ CompUSA
CD-ROM: EPO 58X, $10 after rebate @ CompUSA
Wireless LAN: D-Link DWL-520+, $15 incl. S/H from eBay
HD: 1GB from old PB box, $0
Floppy: stolen from PB box, $0
OS: Win 98 from Compaq Presario box
----------------
Total: $280 (once I get my rebates back)

Not bad considering I could have bought a $30 case w/fan and power supply (would save $38) and I could have used a CD-ROM from another machine, just to get things started (would save $10)

As I'm typing this I'm watching TINKER frame zipping by at 6 minutes/frame. This is at least an order of magnitude faster than one of my 1GHz G4 processors. This ought to be fun...

Jeff

VNC will work from your Mac to control your PC remotely very nicely.

The Windows client/server: (you do need the client and server version installer)
http://www.realvnc.com/download.html

The MacOSX client:
http://sourceforge.net/projects/cotvnc/

The Mac product is called "Chicken of the VNC". Strange name, good product. Pretty cool to run windows on your Mac at near real time speed without emulation!

[jswayze]

Awesome. Exactly what I was looking for. Thanks!

Originally posted by OneMacGuy:
VNC will work from your Mac to control your PC remotely very nicely.