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looking for a Seti and Einstein client
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Fresh-Faced Recruit
Join Date: Jun 2005
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Hey All,
Here is a simple question at I am sure does not have a simple answer. Which is the most reliable, stable, fastest client, that works with Boinc, that won't crash my Mac, and won't waste my time by "computations errors" for Seti and Einstein. Since Switching over to Boinc Seti is about 30% slower and Einstein takes about 20 hours to crunch a WU. Which is pathic. I have a G4 DP 1GHz w/1.5GBs Ram running OSX 10.3.9. I have heard talk about Altivec-enabled versions, but there seem to be a few to choose from. And then when you go to the link all that is there is a file. No installation instructions or anything.
I'm just looking to help out the best I can but since Boinc has taken over Seti, it just seems counter productive becuase everything is slower then it was with Seti Classic!
Thanks in adavnce!
Ciao!
MacStef
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Dedicated MacNNer
Join Date: Nov 2004
Location: Virginia
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How do you want to run BOINC? Three basic options are command-line in Terminal, simple GUI interface in MenuBar, and advanced GUI with screensaver (some clients) in BOINC Manager.
If you want a screensaver, you'll have to run Einstein, which I have lots of trouble with on my Macs. SETI and CPDN don't have screensavers in BOINC. Personally, I don't want a screensaver as it steals CPU cycles from the BOINC application. I go in to System Preferences, set Display to turn on screensaver "never", then in the Energy Saver prefs, I turn on "Put the display to sleep..." and set it for 5 minutes. This means after 5 minutes, the screen goes black which saves energy, doesn't use CPU cycles, and also protects the screen.
Let me know how you want to run BOINC, and I'll give you some tips on how to install it with the optimized clients.
beadman
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Mac Elite
Join Date: Jan 2002
Location: Mile High City
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Originally Posted by MacStef
Hey All,
Here is a simple question at I am sure does not have a simple answer.... I have heard talk about Altivec-enabled versions, but there seem to be a few to choose from. And then when you go to the link all that is there is a file. No installation instructions or anything.
I'm just looking to help out the best I can but since Boinc has taken over Seti, it just seems counter productive becuase everything is slower then it was with Seti Classic!
SETI is the only project that makes their app source code publically available. There are a couple of choices there, but Javalizard's is the best. That is the one that is available all the way at the bottom of the http://members.dslextreme.com/~reade...eam/boinc.html
If you are getting a text file when you click on it, that is a Mime Issue. Instead "Control click" When the contextual menu pops up, select save target as:
If it saves with .txt at the end, remove the .txt. Then you will have a stuffit archive you can expand.
Installation is just like what you did with Einstein, except that you put the app and app_info.xml file in the SETI projects folder instead. WARNING. Any SETI 4.09 work units in cache will be lost. Run your cache dry first, then do the upgrade.
Einstein Source code is not public, so only the Einstein developers can compile an optimized version. It is unusual for a project to go out of its way to compile a special version for the Macintosh, but they have. And they are already thinking to the future and improved versions of GCC4.x for use with the MacTel's that will be coming out in a couple of years. They have a lot of interest in GCC's auto vectorization functions.
IF you are looking for short fast work units, then Predictor is the project however. It's process of validation is more critical as well, so Macs only compare againste other Macs, etc. Works very well with mikkyo's optimized BOINC clients.
SETI BOINC is slower, because there is still a lot of debug code present in the client's and in the apps. That will eventually change, but the science must go on.
Okay, it is 9:46 AM Manila time, (7:46 PM Mountain time) and I spent 26.5 hours traveling. I need to get some sleep now. Never could sleep well on airplanes.
(Last edited by Shaktai; Jun 24, 2005 at 08:51 PM.
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Fresh-Faced Recruit
Join Date: Jun 2005
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Okay here is what I am doing currently:
G4 DP 1GHz w/1.5GB Ram, running Mac OSX 10.3.9, currently running Boinc manager 4.43
Like you I put my monitor to sleep and do not run a screensaver for all the same reasons as you, Plus I have the Apple 23"HD monitor and wish to preserve it as long as possible.
It runs okay for the most part. Freezes my system when playing poker online using Virtual PC and iTunes. Other then that and the fact that it is super slow it fine. Boinc is running Einstein 4.78 which takes about 20 hours to crunch 2 WUs. And Setiathome 4.02 and Setiathome 4.18 which takes about 10 hours to crunch 2 WUs. The 4.18 is new just downed those today. Not sure how fast they will be.
I am waiting for these WUs to finish crunching before I try to upgrade to a faster version fo Einstein and Seti. I have found 3 different version of seti upgrades and 1 on the einstein. I had the Einstein 0.02 running for 5 WUs but only 2 completed without errors. But I am going to try it again when these WUs are complete. I am assuming that this is our only option for Einstein at the moment. If not please correct me and point me in the right direction.
As for Seti, as I stated I have found several version out there the link above gives me a zip file that expands to a file "boinc_4.44-ppcG4"...I dont know what the hell that is. No file extension and nothing will open it. I don't know how to use that one.
Another I found @ "http://www.lb.shuttle.de/apastron/boincDown.shtml" per Shaktai. Actually he has pointed to both. And there was one other but I think I am going to stay away from that unless told otherwise. The install on this one is pretty straight forward. Drop the 2 files in the proper directory and watch them go. At least that is what I think?!
But the first one, the one mention previously I am lost with.
I appreciate the help, looking forward to hearing what I should do next.
Thanks
MacStef
(Last edited by MacStef; Jun 24, 2005 at 11:57 PM.
(Reason:need to add something))
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Mac Elite
Join Date: Jan 2002
Location: Mile High City
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Offline
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Originally Posted by MacStef
I appreciate the help, looking forward to hearing what I should do next.
Thanks
MacStef
The first thing to remember is that there are two parts to BOINC projects. The first part is the BOINC client. This is essentially just a framework. It handles all the uploads, downloads, project tracking, benchmarks etc. but by itself doesn't do any work.
The second part is the actual project application that is downloaded from the project. boinc_4.44-ppcG4 that you downloaded from the team page at the previous link, is an optimized client. To use it, go to "applications" Control Click on BOINC Manager, and select show contents from the popup menu. Double click on contents folder, then double click on Resources. In there you will see the boinc client app. remove it. Drop in your boinc_4.44-ppcG4. Now shorten the name to just "boinc" in all small letters. just like the previous app, and the software will properly recognize it.
On the same page you got boinc_4.44-ppcG4, scroll all the way down to the very bottom. There you will see Javalizards optimized SETI app. It installs just like the einstein app. except you put it in the Seti Projects folder. It is much faster then the standard app. If you have any older SETI work units in progress, they will error out, but then it will download new work. Remember to include the app_info.xml in the same folder as the SETI app. Javalizards optimized SETI app is the best one. You might have to Control-Click to save it correctly though.
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Fresh-Faced Recruit
Join Date: Jun 2005
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Very Cool!
Thanks Shaktai!
What about the one listed here: "http://www.lb.shuttle.de/apastron/boincDown.shtml" is it the same, better or worse? I also fould it listed in your forums.
MacStef
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Mac Elite
Join Date: Jan 2002
Location: Mile High City
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Originally Posted by MacStef
Very Cool!
Thanks Shaktai!
What about the one listed here: "http://www.lb.shuttle.de/apastron/boincDown.shtml" is it the same, better or worse? I also fould it listed in your forums.
MacStef
It's works okay too, but is only optimized for 7450 G4 machines. (didnt' work well on my G5) It might work for you as well, but javalizard did incorporate the most extensive optimizations I believe and has versions for all the G4 & G5 models.
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Dedicated MacNNer
Join Date: Nov 2004
Location: Virginia
Status:
Offline
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Originally Posted by Shaktai
... Javalizards optimized SETI app is the best one. You might have to Control-Click to save it correctly though.
MacStef: If you are using Safari and get a screen full of ASCII characters when you click on the optimized SETI client from JavaLizard, you can also hold down the Option key when you click the URL and it forces Safari to use Download Manager to automatically download the file to your designated download folder.
Shaktai: How's the RP? I haven't been there since 1975...
beadman
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Mac Elite
Join Date: Jan 2002
Location: Mile High City
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Originally Posted by beadman
Shaktai: How's the RP? I haven't been there since 1975...
beadman
Hot, humid and a rain every day, but not all day. Some thunderstorms. I am at the Shangri La Makati in the Manila business district. Very nice place to stay. Not much time to be a tourist, maybe next weekend.
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Dedicated MacNNer
Join Date: Nov 2004
Location: Virginia
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Originally Posted by Shaktai
Hot, humid and a rain every day, but not all day. Some thunderstorms. I am at the Shangri La Makati in the Manila business district. Very nice place to stay. Not much time to be a tourist, maybe next weekend.
Rain all this coming week here in the Wash., DC area as well. Make sure you take time to have some lumpia and a couple of San Miguels.
beadman
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Junior Member
Join Date: Jun 2005
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i am up for running einstein or seti, but would strongly favour any project that optimises the client for altivec
oh and by the way as a new member of the team i would like to say hi from the UK 
regards
adream
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Mac Elite
Join Date: Jan 2002
Location: Mile High City
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Originally Posted by adream
i am up for running einstein or seti, but would strongly favour any project that optimises the client for altivec
oh and by the way as a new member of the team i would like to say hi from the UK
regards
adream
The Einstein altivec Client is still beta, but generaly works well. However it sometimes doesn't place nice with other projects. The SETI altivec client available on our download page has been stable for quite some time. However SETI currently seems to have a number of ongoing server issues, as they work to consildate the Old SETI into SETI BOINC. I myself favor Einstein.
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gecko_r7
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Originally Posted by Shaktai
The first thing to remember is that there are two parts to BOINC projects. The first part is the BOINC client. This is essentially just a framework. It handles all the uploads, downloads, project tracking, benchmarks etc. but by itself doesn't do any work.
The second part is the actual project application that is downloaded from the project. boinc_4.44-ppcG4 that you downloaded from the team page at the previous link, is an optimized client. To use it, go to "applications" Control Click on BOINC Manager, and select show contents from the popup menu. Double click on contents folder, then double click on Resources. In there you will see the boinc client app. remove it. Drop in your boinc_4.44-ppcG4. Now shorten the name to just "boinc" in all small letters. just like the previous app, and the software will properly recognize it.
On the same page you got boinc_4.44-ppcG4, scroll all the way down to the very bottom. There you will see Javalizards optimized SETI app. It installs just like the einstein app. except you put it in the Seti Projects folder. It is much faster then the standard app. If you have any older SETI work units in progress, they will error out, but then it will download new work. Remember to include the app_info.xml in the same folder as the SETI app. Javalizards optimized SETI app is the best one. You might have to Control-Click to save it correctly though.
Any help by anyone in installing 4.44-ppcG4 on menubar gui would be greatly appreciated.
Can't find any threads that actually detail "how".
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Dedicated MacNNer
Join Date: Nov 2004
Location: Virginia
Status:
Offline
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Make sure BOINC is not running.
Find MenuBar. Control-Click on it to bring up the little pop-up menu window and select Show Package Contents. Another window will open up with the Icon for the "folder" MenuBar. Open this, remove the "boinc" file and put it into the trash. Now rename the optimized client to "boinc", making sure it's all lower-case (and no quotes), and put it into the MenuBar folder in place of the other one you just took out. Close the window, and go to your Applications folder and double-click on MenuBar to start it up. All the other files for MenuBar, including your SETI and other clients should be in a folder yourusername/Library/Application Support/Boinc Data/
To use the optimized SETI client, first set your account preferences to .01 contacts per day to run your cache way down, then make sure BOINC is not running. Open the yourusername/Library/Application Support/Boinc Data/Projects/Seti/setiathome.berkeley.edu folder, remove the setiathome... file and trash it. Repace it with the optimized SETI client, and the app_info.xml file that comes with it, and close everything. Restart MenuBar.
Hope this helps.
C
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Senior User
Join Date: Feb 2002
Location: Silly Valley, Ca
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Originally Posted by MacStef
This is normal, you are using a faster client and machine, it claims lots of credit due to its fast completion time, then the WUs are crunched by other people with slower clients (non-altivec) and slower machines that claim less credit, there are more of them than you, so you get the average credit.
This is just the weird way in which boinc works, in a way it is kinda stupid, since if you happen to have crunched the same workunit as the fastest machines have crunched, you get more credit than if slower machines had crunched the same WU.
In the end, it always helps the slower machines get more credit, which seems kinda silly.
Of course while that slow machine was crunching your WU for validation, your machine had already completed 4 more WUs and is awaiting credit on them, so in the end faster machines still end up with more credit than slower machines.
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Mac Elite
Join Date: Jan 2002
Location: Mile High City
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Originally Posted by beadman
Rain all this coming week here in the Wash., DC area as well. Make sure you take time to have some lumpia and a couple of San Miguels.
beadman
Beadman, wouldn't you know that after two days at home, now I am in Washingon DC for a 4 day conference. Makes me wonder why I bother to pay rent. Did sample some Filipino cuisines, enjoyed a couple of fine Scotches and survived the Manila traffic thanks to a company driver with fast reflexes. Rush hour in Manila is filled with more thrills then an amusement park. Was very busy, but here are a few photos I found time to take. Only had 1 day off out of 12. http://homepage.mac.com/brdavid/Manila-1/
(Last edited by Shaktai; Jul 10, 2005 at 11:50 PM.
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Dedicated MacNNer
Join Date: Nov 2004
Location: Virginia
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Good photos! It's too bad you didn't have more free time to look at some of the really neat places outside of Manila. I have lots of great memories of the area.
beadman
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gecko_r7
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Originally Posted by beadman
Make sure BOINC is not running.
Find MenuBar. Control-Click on it to bring up the little pop-up menu window and select Show Package Contents. Another window will open up with the Icon for the "folder" MenuBar. Open this, remove the "boinc" file and put it into the trash. Now rename the optimized client to "boinc", making sure it's all lower-case (and no quotes), and put it into the MenuBar folder in place of the other one you just took out. Close the window, and go to your Applications folder and double-click on MenuBar to start it up. All the other files for MenuBar, including your SETI and other clients should be in a folder yourusername/Library/Application Support/Boinc Data/
To use the optimized SETI client, first set your account preferences to .01 contacts per day to run your cache way down, then make sure BOINC is not running. Open the yourusername/Library/Application Support/Boinc Data/Projects/Seti/setiathome.berkeley.edu folder, remove the setiathome... file and trash it. Repace it with the optimized SETI client, and the app_info.xml file that comes with it, and close everything. Restart MenuBar.
Hope this helps.
C
Thanks for the detailed (& easy) instructions. Huge help!
Thanks again!
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