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Scotttheking · Feb 14, 2002, 01:59 AM

As some of you know, I lost my internet connection at my dad's office, and that's why the SETI proxy is down. The RC5 master proxy also went down, but not too many people notice that.

I ordered a DSL line for my mom's house, which is where I've moved my servers too. However, it costs quite a bit for a line that can be hosted on. More specifically, it cost me $400 up front, and probably $70 or so per month, more if I need to upgrade the bandwidth, something that may be necessary if the seti proxy gets a lot of use.
Needless to say, it's pretty expensive.

However, I have an idea to offset the cost of the line and the electricity and stuff that the proxies use. There is a DC company that uses net bandwidth, not processor power. They only run on windows computers, and they don't run very often, but they pay a little bit. If enough people were to run it, the money earned could pay back some, if not all of the cost of the line.

I'd appreciate it if each of you would run it on one broadband connected computer to help offset some of the costs of the DSL line and the servers.
Here's how to install and run it.

Download this program and install it.
You may also need to install java, which can be gotten from here.
After the app is installed set it up with the email address sjaffa@mac.com. If you are running windows 2000, tell it to run all the time, and set it to run at bootup. Same with any other windows version. For any version of windows other then 2000, you need to have a screensaver turned on, as it will only run when the screensaver is going.

Finally, post in this thread if you are running it.

Thanks a lot for the help. Any questions, just ask. Hopefully this will go towards more great services for the team, and keeping the ones we have running going.

--Scott

malson · Feb 14, 2002, 11:49 PM

I don't mean this to sound bad, but it will probably come off that way. Anyway, Scott, why are you going to all of this trouble just for a couple of proxies? I understand that the stats that can be provided by proxies are great and that the proxies will usually be up if/when the main servers go down. But, I don't think I would be fronting a $400 plus $70 per month for a DSL line that is only going to be used for the proxy servers. I mean, you are away at school, right? You don't live at home? In that case, you aren't even getting any of the benefits of a DSL line. Maybe MacNN is paying the mods some big bucks or something (yeah right...) but I personally wouldn't put out like this. Just think, with the initial money and a couple of those monthly fees, you could have bought a whole new machine!

Maybe it is time to ask the main MacNN folks to host a proxy on their servers. I mean, they already pay for the bandwidth and hosting services. I don't think a couple of proxy servers would add that much to the bill. Maybe you could talk to those guys.

Anyway, I don't think that it is kosher to step into the forum and ask for money. That's strictly my opinion and I may be a dick for saying that. If someone wants to run that network capaciy testing software and direct the money towards you more power to them. I don't have a windows machine at my disposal or I might think about it. I guess it all boils down to the fact that you are putting in DSL and it's costing a pretty penny. You will be providing services to the team, how much I don't know. I use my cable connection to run Ubero, RC5, and SETI for Team MacNN. Do I expect money for crunching this data? No, because it's something I choose to do and it's something I want to do. If you choose to provide proxy servers for the team, that is your own choice. No one is forcing you to do it.

Like I said at first, this is not meant to be a mean, hateful post. Nothing personal against Scott or anyone else. Just my opinion. I'll try to be quiet now.

slipjack · Feb 17, 2002, 01:19 AM

Hear hear... MacNN should pay. It's advertising!! It's like paying for a Nascar driver....

If the proxies are down, does that mean I should re-point to the main keyservers?

Scotttheking · Feb 17, 2002, 02:21 AM

Originally posted by slipjack:
Hear hear... MacNN should pay. It's advertising!! It's like paying for a Nascar driver....

If the proxies are down, does that mean I should re-point to the main keyservers?

We won't put ad banners on the team site.

The proxies aren't technically "down".
The master proxy for RC5 is, and the seti proxy we have now is one that a guy is letting me use until I get mine back up.

Don't worry about them, they'll be kept up.

I guess I should reply to malson's post. That'll happen later, I've been too busy at work / with my homework to have time to do much team stuff.

--Scott

Scotttheking · Feb 17, 2002, 03:13 AM

Originally posted by malson:
I don't mean this to sound bad, but it will probably come off that way. Anyway, Scott, why are you going to all of this trouble just for a couple of proxies? I understand that the stats that can be provided by proxies are great and that the proxies will usually be up if/when the main servers go down. But, I don't think I would be fronting a $400 plus $70 per month for a DSL line that is only going to be used for the proxy servers. I mean, you are away at school, right? You don't live at home? In that case, you aren't even getting any of the benefits of a DSL line. Maybe MacNN is paying the mods some big bucks or something (yeah right...) but I personally wouldn't put out like this. Just think, with the initial money and a couple of those monthly fees, you could have bought a whole new machine!

Well, you list the advantages, so I won't repeat them.
Yes, I'm at school, so I won't directly use the line. However, since my mom and brother and sister are at home, they'll definitely appreciate the speed increase for when they use the line, even if it's not often. While the upload portion of the line will be for the team, part of the downstream portion will be used by them.
Nope, mods don't get paid.
I'm willing to go to some expense to help out the team, I guess that's just the way I am.
Sure I could buy another machine, but I don't really want anymore.

Maybe it is time to ask the main MacNN folks to host a proxy on their servers. I mean, they already pay for the bandwidth and hosting services. I don't think a couple of proxy servers would add that much to the bill. Maybe you could talk to those guys.

They do host one of the rc5 proxies on their server, with the master being mine.
They can't run a SETI proxy, as it's a windows only app. If you'd like to work with some other people to write one for linux/BSD, I'll ask them to run it.
However, it's not the bandwidth that's the big deal, it's the processing power involved in running stats off them. They'd need to get a much faster box in order to run the stats code, and they aren't willing to do that. I have a 1.47GHz Athlon who's job will be to run the stats.

Anyway, I don't think that it is kosher to step into the forum and ask for money. That's strictly my opinion and I may be a dick for saying that. If someone wants to run that network capaciy testing software and direct the money towards you more power to them. I don't have a windows machine at my disposal or I might think about it. I guess it all boils down to the fact that you are putting in DSL and it's costing a pretty penny. You will be providing services to the team, how much I don't know. I use my cable connection to run Ubero, RC5, and SETI for Team MacNN. Do I expect money for crunching this data? No, because it's something I choose to do and it's something I want to do. If you choose to provide proxy servers for the team, that is your own choice. No one is forcing you to do it.

I'm not asking for cash out of people's pockets. I'm asking them to donate something that they don't use to the team, in addition to the DCing that they already do.
I'm providing some services to the team, and I'm asking if the team could help out with those services. If Ubero gets a paying project, you can bet that most of the money I earn will go towards the team stuff. However, they won't even have any idea about paying projects for 6 months or so.

Like I said at first, this is not meant to be a mean, hateful post. Nothing personal against Scott or anyone else. Just my opinion. I'll try to be quiet now.

I have no problem with you speaking what's on your mind, and I'm sure that no one else does, either.

Now, some reasons why I find the proxies to be useful.

RC5: The proxy here is helpful mostly for what we are working to provide, and that is stats updated more then once daily. Using the data from the proxy we anticipate being able to provide stats updated every 30 minutes, something I'm sure a lot of people would want, and something I know I wanted when I was focusing on RC5.

SETI: There are a few reasons for this.
1. Stats, again. We'll offer some more detailed stats, like 7 and 14 day processor time averages, how many clients people have running, production by client, things like that. Just a bunch of stuff that's more detailed then what we can get from the SETI site.

2. Short term SETI WU buffering. The SETI servers do go down every here and there, with the most noticeable being a 7 day outage when the cable was physically cut. The team proxy buffers 7 days of work units for each member, meaning that team members wouldn't notice much of an outage. It's a fact that there are no good local mac apps for buffering work units, so the proxy takes the place of that.

3. The current connection problems. We've all been having some problems connecting recently. While it's looking like it's gotten a little better, this can partially be attributed to the request that SETI made that people switch to a buffering system that can be connected at night, when their usage is lower. When you connect to the current, temporary proxy, it doesn't dump to SETI right away. Instead, it waits until about 11:00PM CA time to connect, and then it stays connected for a few hours. These proxies have been taking a lot of the daytime load off of SETI, and ours will be part of that.
Also, there has been discussion of maybe having SETI send out DVDs to people running proxies, and then having users download from them. Since they don't have a problem receiving work units, this would take a lot of the load off, as that would be something each team offers. Ideas are that each DVD would cost about $20. Obviously this is only speculation, and not something the SETI people have said, but it's an idea that could happen if the current bandwith problems don't stop.

Well, that's about it.
Any questions, comments, whatever, just post.
And of course, if anyone actually does run this, let me know.

Thx,

Scott

Edit: formatting

[ 02-17-2002: Message edited by: Scotttheking ]

rambo47 · Feb 17, 2002, 02:45 PM

Money to keep this stuff running is a simple reallity. I for one would donate cash either through PayPal or some other means to keep this going. I wouldn't mind doing something else like run a proxy server (Optimum Online cable modem at home) but I'm away all day, plus I'm a computer idiot. If its easy and won't screw my little home network up I'd give it a shot. I have a NetGear RT-314 gateway router connected to my cable modem so it shouldn't effect the rest of my setup. What kind of hardware would I need to buy?

P.S. I'm loving this SETI stuff. Just knowing that I'm part of a distributed computing effort is neat. I'll bet when IBM's chairman in 1943 asked, "Why would anyone want a computer in their house?" he couldn't have guessed this would be happening.

legacyb4 · Mar 23, 2002, 05:17 PM

Scott,

Did you end up using this program? I'm kind of curious to know if they actually pay out or not...

Cheers.

Originally posted by Scotttheking:
Download this program and install it.
You may also need to install java, which can be gotten from here.
After the app is installed set it up with the email address sjaffa@mac.com. If you are running windows 2000, tell it to run all the time, and set it to run at bootup. Same with any other windows version. For any version of windows other then 2000, you need to have a screensaver turned on, as it will only run when the screensaver is going.

--Scott

Scotttheking · Mar 23, 2002, 05:40 PM

I'm not sure, haven't checked.
They said they would be starting up again in an email, but I haven't heard since, and have mostly given up hope.

I'm just not spending any more money. We are currently using a ars SETI proxy, and he wants us off.
I've got a box ready to go except for a HD, but I'm not going to go spend the money to get one.

That's my current stance.

Arkham_c · Mar 23, 2002, 07:40 PM

How much bandwidth does our SETI proxy use? I have a fast PC at my house (p3/750, 768 MB RAM, WinXP Pro) and I have a static IP and cable modem, so if it's not a ton of bandwidth, I could run it here.

Scotttheking · Mar 23, 2002, 07:55 PM

Originally posted by Arkham_c:
How much bandwidth does our SETI proxy use? I have a fast PC at my house (p3/750, 768 MB RAM, WinXP Pro) and I have a static IP and cable modem, so if it's not a ton of bandwidth, I could run it here.

One SETI WU is about .34MB.
Right now the SETI proxy probably handles around 200WU/day, with more to come.
That equals about 68.35MB.
Assuming an upload of 256kb/sec, that equals 32KB/sec, which equals 36.45 solid minutes of upload each day.
That doesn't count results uploaded, which aren't too bad.
However, it's enough to catch the eye of a cable provider, most likely.
That also doesn't include the transfers going between the stats box and the seti proxy, which is a big reason for them being on my network (just got a 100mbit switch).

I'll keep your offer in mind though, incase I don't find a hard drive soon.

Shaktai · Mar 23, 2002, 08:26 PM

If nothing else works out, I would second the Pay Pal idea or some other method to raise the cash needed. (within reason). Heck if everyone kicked in 50 cents or a dollar it would be enough to pay the up front expenses and keep things running for a very long time. Of course your method would probably be less hassle, if everyone who can, gets into it. Unfortunately, I have no windows PC's.

Michael A. Peters · Mar 23, 2002, 08:33 PM

Dudes,

this is insane.
I'm sorry, it just is.

Not only is it causing a headache, but its doubling the bandwidth the team uses on the internet.
Sorry, but the internet is slow already.

If you use OS 7/8/9 use S.U.M.
If you use OS X use setiproxy
If you use Linux use setiproxy
If you use EvilOS there are plenty of options.

You already use internet bandwidth when you upload a unit.
So now you are going to use bandwidth when you upload that unit to a proxy which is then going to upload it to seti?

Sure, you personally don't use more.
And seti doesn't use more.
But the proxy sure as hell does!

Install a caching/proxy on your local machine ot your local lan,
then proxies are good because they manage when bandwidth is used.

But once you have to proxy across the internet, you make the entire web slower.
And it costs more.
And it creates a big single point of failure because if you can't get to the proxy, you don't get work done.

Seriously, people- proxy on your own machine/lan.
It's easy to do.

Cache yourself a weeks worth of units and you won't be affected by Seti's occasional hiccups.

Scotttheking · Mar 23, 2002, 09:00 PM

Originally posted by Michael A. Peters:
Dudes,

this is insane.
I'm sorry, it just is.

Not only is it causing a headache, but its doubling the bandwidth the team uses on the internet.
Sorry, but the internet is slow already.

If you use OS 7/8/9 use S.U.M.
If you use OS X use setiproxy
If you use Linux use setiproxy
If you use EvilOS there are plenty of options.

You already use internet bandwidth when you upload a unit.
So now you are going to use bandwidth when you upload that unit to a proxy which is then going to upload it to seti?

Sure, you personally don't use more.
And seti doesn't use more.
But the proxy sure as hell does!

Install a caching/proxy on your local machine ot your local lan,
then proxies are good because they manage when bandwidth is used.

But once you have to proxy across the internet, you make the entire web slower.
And it costs more.
And it creates a big single point of failure because if you can't get to the proxy, you don't get work done.

Seriously, people- proxy on your own machine/lan.
It's easy to do.

Cache yourself a weeks worth of units and you won't be affected by Seti's occasional hiccups.

1. SUM just plain sucks. Sorry to whoever wrote it, but damn, it loses so many WU, it stops working some times, you can't use the computer while it's doing something, etc.
2. that seti proxy is ok, but I'm not liking it that much, and it'll only buffer 200 WU.
3. Sure you can buffer on windows, unless you are trying to run it as a service something, which I for one do.
4. We get some nice stats off the team proxy which I for one really like, and I'm sure others will too.
5. Sure it's a single point of failure, but if it's goes down, it comes up pretty fast again, how I'll have it setup (a brother trained in the art of the reboot button)
6. For a lot of users, using another app is a pain in the ass. With the team proxy, they don't need to do really anything else to be using it.

--Scott

DAlex · Mar 28, 2002, 06:21 AM

Scott, do you have paypal? If so let me know and I'll donate towards the cost of a HD for you, as far as I am concerned it'll be a worthwhile investment, so let me know, preferably by email (although I won't get my email till Tuesday 2 April now as my home link is down)

Cheers

DAlex
dalex@mac.com

Scotttheking · Mar 29, 2002, 04:08 AM

I'll think about it.
I found some good HD prices, but I'm not sure what, if anything, I'm going to get.
Since I'd have to build the machine tomorrow, and I can't get a HD by then, I dunno.
I may just throw in a temp 40GB HD for now.

Arkham_c · Mar 29, 2002, 08:36 AM

I've been shopping for 80-120GB ATA drives to add to my TiVo. A lot of people buy cheap drives from newegg.com since they seem to be pretty cheap. You can also keep an eye on the AVS TiVo Forum for good drive deals. I am looking for an 80GB Maxtor or Seagate 5400 rpm for under $100. There are some decent deals on 120GB drives right now from Dell if you need that much storage.

Scotttheking · Mar 29, 2002, 03:36 PM

Heh, all I really need is a 10-20GB HD.

Although my Tivo sure could use a bigger drive

wfolta · Mar 29, 2002, 08:09 PM

Originally posted by Scotttheking:
The RC5 master proxy also went down, but not too many people notice that.

Actually, I've noticed as at least one of my machines keeps complaining that the connection to rc5.macnncom:2046 is refused. Should I reset my ini file to ignore the the proxies for now?

Scotttheking · Mar 29, 2002, 09:29 PM

Originally posted by wfolta:


Actually, I've noticed as at least one of my machines keeps complaining that the connection to rc5.macnncom:2046 is refused. Should I reset my ini file to ignore the the proxies for now?

the correct address is rc5.macnn.com port 2064
You shouldn't even put a port # in, as it's the default port.
And rc5.macnn.com isn't the master proxy.
I brought that back up weeks ago.

--Scott

Scotttheking · Mar 30, 2002, 03:04 PM

Well, don't worry about anything for now, because the damn system doesn't even work. I think the processor may be bad, but someone has "borrowed" every other processor, along with the video cards.

I think I'm just going to setup my linux "bitch" box with it for now, and then try rebuilding this box another time. Or just build a new box, which may end up being cheaper then fighting with this one.

wfolta · Mar 30, 2002, 08:58 PM

Originally posted by Scotttheking:


the correct address is rc5.macnn.com port 2064
You shouldn't even put a port # in, as it's the default port.
And rc5.macnn.com isn't the master proxy.
I brought that back up weeks ago.

--Scott

I've been running with the settings as described by the documents here for three weeks. Only in the last three or four days did I start getting those error messages. (On three machines, so it's not a fluke as far as I can tell.)

The rc5.macnn.com:2064 is just what the dnetc error message said, not what I entered anywhere. (The "macnncom" in my posting was simply a typo on my part.)

I've since changed the parms to not point to rc5 and everything's working again.

Scotttheking · Mar 30, 2002, 09:07 PM

Originally posted by wfolta:


I've been running with the settings as described by the documents here for three weeks. Only in the last three or four days did I start getting those error messages. (On three machines, so it's not a fluke as far as I can tell.)

The rc5.macnn.com:2064 is just what the dnetc error message said, not what I entered anywhere. (The "macnncom" in my posting was simply a typo on my part.)

I've since changed the parms to not point to rc5 and everything's working again.

See the other thread I made. It's fine now.