[G4ME]

I saw what a duak gig can do in Dnetc and it is amazing. Over 20 Mkeys a second thats is more than double my dual 500, all Teammacnn needs is a couple more of these wonderfull machines running just a couple hours a day and we'll brake 100 in no time so drop by Team Macnn.

[Ken_F2]

20 MKeys/s? That's faster than my dual Athlon...

[G4ME]

my point exactly

[Scotttheking]

Any computer for any project is good.
http://team.macnn.com

[nana2]

Originally posted by Ken_F2:
<STRONG>20 MKeys/s? That's faster than my dual Athlon...</STRONG>

Yes, rc5 is one of the few things g4's excel at.

[msykes]

Originally posted by Scotttheking:
<STRONG>Any computer for any project is good.
http://team.macnn.com</STRONG>

As soon as foldingathome has their client out, I'll join. I know the guys who do the project, I should go harass them about it:-)

msykes

[TNproud2b]

I know a little about the guys who are working on the folding@home project...

And you'll be waiting an eternity for your Mac client.

And it will be buggy and inefficient.

And you won't be able to view your stats because the server will be down for 10 days because nobody is there to push a reset button.

And you can offer to help and your services will be declined.

And better people will offer to help. And they, too, will be ignored.

I could keep going, but the trend is obvious.

Your extra CPU cycles would be better spent on the genome@home project - even though all of the above conditions still apply.

[msykes]

Originally posted by TNproud2b:
<STRONG>I know a little about the guys who are working on the folding@home project...
And you'll be waiting an eternity for your Mac client.
And it will be buggy and inefficient.
And you won't be able to view your stats because the server will be down for 10 days because nobody is there to push a reset button.
And you can offer to help and your services will be declined.
And better people will offer to help. And they, too, will be ignored.
I could keep going, but the trend is obvious.
Your extra CPU cycles would be better spent on the genome@home project - even though all of the above conditions still apply.</STRONG>

I see... now how well exactly do you know these guys? Anyways, Folding@home just had a meeting, FWIW they say they are very close to releasing an OSX client, maybe it will be buggy as hell but too bad I dont' care for SETI/RC5 at all.

Do you have much experience with an academic research environment?

msykes

[Bodhi]

Can someone please explain to me the point of all of this?

Why do people do this RC5 stuff?

[slipjack]

Originally posted by Bodhi:
<STRONG>Can someone please explain to me the point of all of this?

Why do people do this RC5 stuff?</STRONG>

Competition!

[nana2]

Originally posted by Bodhi:
<STRONG>Can someone please explain to me the point of all of this?

Why do people do this RC5 stuff?</STRONG>

Because no one can be bothered porting a client for a project that acutally could be of use to the human condition, to a minuscule amount of users

[G4ME]

You get a grand if you break it and a grand for the team, and a grand your charity of our choice. PS the G4 dose twice the pentiums so go G4

[TNproud2b]

Originally posted by msykes:
<STRONG>

I see... now how well exactly do you know these guys? Anyways, Folding@home just had a meeting, FWIW they say they are very close to releasing an OSX client, maybe it will be buggy as hell but too bad I dont' care for SETI/RC5 at all.

Do you have much experience with an academic research environment?

msykes</STRONG>

On the surface it may appear that there exists a 'team' involved in the genome and folding projects at Stanford - when you look deeper you find only one person with the authority to get anything done...and his past actions (or lack thereof) are the basis from which my current opinions are formed.

They claimed to be close to releasing an OS_X client? Translated, that would read: "We had a meeting and it was added to the agenda."

While it would be great to see more platforms supported (IRIX, Mac, Mac OS_X) besides Linux and Win32 - I'd rather see the two existing clients working properly first. So far, I've waited a year to see a g@h client that didn't crash and burn (well, until it chews on a corrupt workunit..which is another story) and they still don't have a folding client that's worth the effort to use. How many genes have been successfully 'folded', you ask? One, that is semi-documented. Last time I bothered checking, anyway. Once the 'ability' to fold a gene was established - the project stagnated.
*shrugs*

While I don't have experience in academic research, it doesn't stop me from having a foundation for my opinions of a project from the perspective of an end-user. Academic research makes a handy excuse for laziness and inefficiency - hey guys, cut us some slack... we ain't professionals

I know for a fact that several of the brightest minds in the free world have offered to volunteer their time and effort in order to 'repair' the faults in the projects - only to be told 'no thanks'.

To bitch and moan about lack of resources - to point fingers at the academic establishment when things don't go right - to request that people donate their CPU cycles for a 'good cause' - and then to have the unmitigated gall to refuse help when it's offered? Sounds like a case of someone on a power trip to me. Somebody with an ego.

I'll bet that it's the same person that has the only key to the server. Over his dead body you can press the reset button.

*Whew... I feel better now*



PS, I agree that RC/5 and SETI both suck. For your safety, don't get me started on my opinion of the downfall of SETI.

[ 02-01-2002: Message edited by: TNproud2b ]

[chris v]

Originally posted by TNproud2b:
<STRONG>



PS, I agree that RC/5 and SETI both suck. For your safety, don't get me started on my opinion of the downfall of SETI.

[ 02-01-2002: Message edited by: TNproud2b ]</STRONG>

SETI would appear to be the victim of its own success. Distributed computing is in its infancy, and I guess no one had a clue just how successful they'd be at getting subscribers. It sure would be nice to see some of the brain trust involved in these projects turn the raw power towards real life problems, though, huh? like how about curing dideases? or cold fusion? There must be applications in worthy fields. I crunch mainly because I support the CONCEPT of distributed computing, with the hopes that it will grow into something really useful.

CV

[TNproud2b]

It's very rare to find a distributed computing project which benefits mankind while not making somebody rich. I, for one, will not participate in any for-profit projects - regardless of whether or not they offer monetary awards to the end user. While others may wish to pimp out their clockcycles for cash, I have a conscience, and cannot.

So very rare is a worthy project. Which probably explains why I still run the genome client even though I find the lack of professionalism exhibited by the 'team' at Stanford to be so offensive. It sucks, but there are not many alternatives.

oh well...I AM ranked #81 out of 15,000 users. Stats are my only motivation - which is proper, being that I'm not a scientist but merely an end user. Too many projects ignore the needs of the volunteers who run their clients. It's all about respecting those that offered the help you sought. Something my momma taught me back when I was 5...and these folks are 20+ yr old graduate students? I wouldn't pay the lot of 'em fifty cents an hour to rake leaves.

Edited to add that if I sponsored a distributed computing project I would have a great deal of respect and appreciation for the people who chose to run my client software. It baffles me how anyone could feel differently about it, but I reckon we do need a benchmark for bad manners.

How would it make you feel if I told you that you should have had a Mac client for both genome@home and folding@home last year?
and IRIX, too. and a few others. The resources to accomplish these tasks were made available free of charge - but were declined. Instead it was added to the bottom of a growing "to do" list...worn and smudged, stuffed in the shirt pocket of a freespirited, globetrotting, egotripping, only-server-key-holding, granola-eating liberal treehugging Nader-supporter.

the last part may or may not be true, but I got five on it - and never even met the guy.

[ 02-01-2002: Message edited by: TNproud2b ]

[Scotttheking]

Lets keep the folding discussion to the team forum.

This thread was supposed to be a recruiting thread.

Hey everyone, join Team MacNN.

[TNproud2b]

sorry about that.

Everyone should be involved in distributed computing

You would be amazed at how rewarding something as stupid as workunit can be. Being on a team gives you competitors that you can taunt first-hand - and more importantly, you can get instant answers to any question you have.

It's hard to explain to someone who hasn't been involved in it. You'll learn a lot about software and hardware and how differing platforms compare to each other. You don't even have to be committed to the project at hand in order to learn something. By the time your understanding grows to the point where you want to contribute to a 'worthy' project, perhaps genome or folding@home will offer a more comprehensive selection of client software....I dream of a worthy project with the awesome (optimized!) client support offered by RC/5.

Join Team MacNN

[ 02-01-2002: Message edited by: TNproud2b ]

[msykes]

Originally posted by TNproud2b:
<STRONG>

On the surface it may appear that there exists a 'team' involved in the genome and folding projects at Stanford - when you look deeper you find only one person with the authority to get anything done...and his past actions (or lack thereof) are the basis from which my current opinions are formed.

They claimed to be close to releasing an OS_X client? Translated, that would read: "We had a meeting and it was added to the agenda."

While it would be great to see more platforms supported (IRIX, Mac, Mac OS_X) besides Linux and Win32 - I'd rather see the two existing clients working properly first. So far, I've waited a year to see a g@h client that didn't crash and burn (well, until it chews on a corrupt workunit..which is another story) and they still don't have a folding client that's worth the effort to use. How many genes have been successfully 'folded', you ask? One, that is semi-documented. Last time I bothered checking, anyway. Once the 'ability' to fold a gene was established - the project stagnated.
*shrugs*

While I don't have experience in academic research, it doesn't stop me from having a foundation for my opinions of a project from the perspective of an end-user. Academic research makes a handy excuse for laziness and inefficiency - hey guys, cut us some slack... we ain't professionals

I know for a fact that several of the brightest minds in the free world have offered to volunteer their time and effort in order to 'repair' the faults in the projects - only to be told 'no thanks'.

To bitch and moan about lack of resources - to point fingers at the academic establishment when things don't go right - to request that people donate their CPU cycles for a 'good cause' - and then to have the unmitigated gall to refuse help when it's offered? Sounds like a case of someone on a power trip to me. Somebody with an ego.

I'll bet that it's the same person that has the only key to the server. Over his dead body you can press the reset button.

*Whew... I feel better now*



PS, I agree that RC/5 and SETI both suck. For your safety, don't get me started on my opinion of the downfall of SETI.

[ 02-01-2002: Message edited by: TNproud2b ]</STRONG>

Just one more post in this thread.... I want to clarify a couple of things:

1. They are not folding genes. They are folding proteins... this is distinct from the genomeathome project. Naturally many genes do code for proteins, hence some confusion there.

2. The ability to fold a protein has really not been established. I mean, at least not in a way that would convince anyone in the field that a given method/approach could fold all protein sequences given enough computer time. There are some examples of succesful folding of small proteins, but in this field it hardly means the problem is solved.

3. I don't recall any bitching and moaning.

4. Academics *are* professionals. They do get paid, in case you were not aware of this. Laziness is certainly not a common traight in academics. One could argue that innefficiency is, the reason being that academics don't have the money to always take the most efficient route, unlike industry where time = money.

5. Now the whole refusal for help thing is a different matter, but let's just say that issues of authorship, ownership, intellectual property, grant money, and other factors all contribute to this not being a cut and dry situation.

Cut them some slack; not because they are academics, but because they are people who are trying to do some research and who don't owe any of us anything. If you don't like the project, nobody's holding a gun to anybody's head.

[TNproud2b]

Right on queue:

From: Stefan Mathias Larson &lt;smlarson@s...&gt;
Date: Fri Feb 1, 2002 12:15 pm
Subject: Re: [genomeathome] When will Stats be Fixed?

Hi,
It's taken a while, since it was a fairly major crash. For those who
know and/or care about these things, we run the stats off a server with a 5 x 75 Gb RAID(5) array. We had the unfortunate experience of two disk
failures in the same day. The redundancy of RAID(5) is such that it can
run if one disk goes down, but not two. All the disks are the notorious
IBM Deskstar 75 Gb model, which have been become infamous of late for
being exceedingly failure-prone. Needless to say, we're replacing them
with Maxtor's instead as we go along :-)
I fixed the hardware side of the stats db server last night, and it's in
the process of restoring from our off-site backup archives right now.
Since it's a large array that was almost full, it's taking a while. The
stats will be back up as soon as this afternoon or as late as Sunday
afternoon, depending on how things go.

Again, I'm very sorry about this inconvenience. We really are working as
fast as we can to get things back up.

Thanks for your patience . . . happy genoming.

- Stefan

Server failure #3,542

I rest my case.

[iCartman]

You gotta wonder about the people who waste their time on RC5. G4Me looks like he's only doing it because it's the only application that can beat a Pentium.

[slipjack]

Originally posted by iCartman:
<STRONG>You gotta wonder about the people who waste their time on RC5. G4Me looks like he's only doing it because it's the only application that can beat a Pentium. </STRONG>

Perhaps you should be wondering about something more important to the human race.

RC5 is a race... so the race is fun, and stats are fun, and crunching is fun. DC can be used for more 'important' matters. So what. I choose to crunch whatever the hell I want on my computer and at the moment, it happens to be RC5.

[firefly]

If only RC5 could be used for something genuinely useful, like MPEG encoding or such.

[TNproud2b]

The epic saga continues...

If this guy worked for me he would have been fired and subsequently sued for return of past wages.

Fortunately for him, he isn't employed - and likely never will be.

From: Stefan Mathias Larson &lt;smlarson@s...&gt;
Date: Tue Feb 5, 2002 4:22 am
Subject: stats server fiasco


Hi folks,

Well, I suspect the stats server
is pooched. I'm going to wrestle
with it
a bit more tonight and if I don't
get anywhere, I'll set up a new
one
tomorrow morning.

Reporting to you live from the
trenches - Stefan

[Scotttheking]

Ok, I give up.
Off to the team forum.
You can discuss it there.

[[APi]TheMan]

Originally posted by iCartman:
<STRONG>You gotta wonder about the people who waste their time on RC5. G4Me looks like he's only doing it because it's the only application that can beat a Pentium. </STRONG>

I don't know about you, iCartman, but I don't use Macintoshes because of their ability to toast Pentiums and Athlons in varied tasks. I use Macintoshes because I like the Operating System, the company behind it, and the more recent history of Apple being the underdog.

I use Macs because I like how they work, period. I couldn't give a sh!t about lack of games or applications, I get my work done, and so do many other users, so I'm satisfied. Besides, we do get our healthy share of games and applications. be0tch.

[G4ME]

I agree with you but this is our bragging rights against pentiums so lets celibrate and start crunching

[[APi]TheMan]

Originally posted by G4ME:
<STRONG>I agree with you but this is our bragging rights against pentiums so lets celibrate and start crunching</STRONG>

And we definitely have the upper hand here, so let's brag.

[slipjack]

Prepare to fear my crunching... Dual gig coming my way in a week or so.