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Scotttheking · Jul 20, 2002, 05:31 AM

I got netboot working

I've got seti running on a computer that has no hard drive in it

Now I'm working on getting DF working.
This is really cool.
I'm now going to be able to build computers in the $200-$400 range that have a lot of power in them.
It's actually not that hard. Now that I've done it I can probably walk someone else thru it in a weekend.

To add to that, Fry's electronics has a really good deal right now. Athlon XP 1500 with the ECS K7S5A motherboard (the one that is suspected to network boot off it's onboard NIC)
GUESS WHAT I'M BUYING SOON

Just add 128MB-256MB of ram, a HSF, a powersupply, and most likely a video card, and you are all set (I hope).

More info to come later.

jbcool · Jul 20, 2002, 08:51 AM

<blockquote>quote:<hr />Originally posted by Scotttheking:
I got netboot working

I've got seti running on a computer that has no hard drive in it

Now I'm working on getting DF working.
This is really cool.

To add to that, Fry's electronics has a really good deal right now. Athlon XP 1500 with the ECS K7S5A motherboard (the one that is suspected to network boot off it's onboard NIC)

More info to come later.<hr /></blockquote>Good job Scott. I'm interested in picking you brain on this one.
I have five ECS K7S5A motherboards ready for the testing.
I have had problems with linux not bringing up the lan interface on startup. So you are the solution to all my problems.
This is one of those things that should probably go on a web page at some point so all the crunchers out there can be helped by your efforts.

Scott YOU DA MAN!!!!!!!!!

Scotttheking · Jul 20, 2002, 01:13 PM

<blockquote>quote:<hr />Originally posted by jbcool:
 <blockquote>quote:<hr />Originally posted by Scotttheking:
I got netboot working
I've got seti running on a computer that has no hard drive in it
Now I'm working on getting DF working.
This is really cool.

To add to that, Fry's electronics has a really good deal right now. Athlon XP 1500 with the ECS K7S5A motherboard (the one that is suspected to network boot off it's onboard NIC)

More info to come later.<hr /></blockquote>Good job Scott. I'm interested in picking you brain on this one.
I have five ECS K7S5A motherboards ready for the testing.
I have had problems with linux not bringing up the lan interface on startup. So you are the solution to all my problems.
This is one of those things that should probably go on a web page at some point so all the crunchers out there can be helped by your efforts.

Scott YOU DA MAN!!!!!!!!!<hr /></blockquote>You mean I didn't just follow someone else's website after he set it up for his DC farm

I am going to the store later to get 2 more boards, as my 2 are in my server and my netboot server. Note that I said suspected netboot above, as I've never seen or heard of anyone actually netbooting them.
I'm actually booting off a 3com with a netboot floppy right now, but that's because I kindof "borrowed" one of my dad's office computers

I still don't have DF working though

I need libs, but I have to manually copy them from another system, and it's pretty much trial and error until such time as I can make the netboot OS the linux flavor that I want.
Maybe I'll try that tonight

jbcool · Jul 21, 2002, 01:11 AM

I installed mandrake 8.1 and 8.2 and it saw the onboard nic but would never bring it up on boot up. So I finally gave up and went to 8.0 and added nic cards and that ignores the onboard nice and does dhcp fine.
I finally gave up and just decided to let them start crunching. Hope you get it all figured out.

Thanks.

Scotttheking · Jul 21, 2002, 01:34 AM

<blockquote>quote:<hr />Originally posted by jbcool:
I installed mandrake 8.1 and 8.2 and it saw the onboard nic but would never bring it up on boot up. So I finally gave up and went to 8.0 and added nic cards and that ignores the onboard nice and does dhcp fine.
I finally gave up and just decided to let them start crunching. Hope you get it all figured out.

Thanks.<hr /></blockquote>The nic is a sis900 NIC
you need a later 2.2 kernel. I have the NIC working with 2.2.20, although one of the first things I do is rebuild with a 2.4 kernel.
I use debian, and it will use the NIC off the floppy install that I use.
I'll be ordering the boards online soon instead of going to the store, so it'll be a little longer.
Once I get it working I'll be happy to walk you thru it all. First I need to make sure the ECS board can boot.
I'm told it might need a BIOS flash to fix it.

jbcool · Jul 21, 2002, 11:37 AM

Scott thanks for the information.
This next week is pretty busy for me but I will be interested in your results. I have enough dead brain cells that I will probably need that walk thru. I'll see if I can get the onboard nic working with linux.

mikkyo · Jul 25, 2002, 08:46 PM

<blockquote>quote:<hr />Originally posted by jbcool:
I'll see if I can get the onboard nic working with linux.<hr /></blockquote>I use Redhat 7.2.
In order to get the onboard NIC working I plugged in a PCI NIC, with the onboard disabled in the bios, set up the net connection, updated to the latest kernel, shut down, removed the PCI NIC, enabled the onboard NIC, booted.
Redhat said my PCI NIC had disappeared and would I like to remove the entry. I said yes and kept the configuration. It then detected the onboard NIC and I told it to load a driver and use the existing config. Everything then worked fine from then on.

Netbooting might be cool, but like you are only saving yourself the HD price and most folks who have several machines have a few old HDs around, so the cost is $0. I have old 2 and 3GB drives in my Athlon machines.

What I want is the smallest cheapest enclosure that will hold an ATX MB with an Athlon on it. Prolly only need 250W supply if it is just the MB and processor running.

Sure would be nice if there were a scalable Athlon system that could hold like 64 CPUs...

jbcool · Jul 25, 2002, 09:55 PM

The problem I was having with Mandrake 8.1 and 8.2 was that it would see the on board NIC but not bring it up. I would have to bring it up manually each time. Finally got tired of that an put a NIC card in and 8.0 of mandrake which does not see the on board nice and it comes up fine now. Now here is a twist to the story. I loaned the machine and my mandrake 8.2 CD's to a buddy and he reloaded it and he says it comes up
for him.

What I wanted to do for the crunching farm was to build a shelf that would hold 10 or more motherboards and power supplies. I've used up all my old drives in the 10 machines I have now. So if Scott gets the netboot down to a fine art I could put together a cruncher for around $200.

Thanks for you thoughts and experiences on this stuff everyone.

Scotttheking · Jul 26, 2002, 04:10 AM

From what I've heard the ECS will not bootup without a video card in it

I can have netboot working right now if you want to spend $35 on a NIC, or less if you have a EPROM burner and some patience.
I haven't actually ordered the new ECS mobo yet, too busy, so hopefully sometime next week. I do plan on finishing my case this weekend though. I'm hoping it'll run ok without the 120mm fans for now, otherwise it's gonna be nice and toasty in there

But the point of netboot is more then just the HD savings.
1. It's usually done in conjunction with caseless stripped computers, which is a cost reduction.
2. Only one HD to deal with with. If you want to switch to a new project it's not that hard to do. I've got a directory /netboot, and within that is nodes/<nodename>/, and all I have to do is install the project, then do a copy and dump it into each folder. Then I configure a startup script for it, set that as the script to run at boot in the server, and reboot the clients.
3. IT'S COOL.

jbcool · Jul 26, 2002, 08:57 AM

<blockquote>quote:<hr />Originally posted by Scotttheking:
From what I've heard the ECS will not bootup without a video card in it

I can have netboot working right now if you want to spend $35 on a NIC, or less if you have a EPROM burner and some patience.
I haven't actually ordered the new ECS mobo yet, too busy, so hopefully sometime next week.

But the point of netboot is more then just the HD savings.
1. It's usually done in conjunction with caseless stripped computers, which is a cost reduction.
2. Only one HD to deal with with. If you want to switch to a new project it's not that hard to do. I've got a directory /netboot, and within that is nodes/<nodename>/, and all I have to do is install the project, then do a copy and dump it into each folder. Then I configure a startup script for it, set that as the script to run at boot in the server, and reboot the clients.
3. IT'S COOL.

<hr /></blockquote>Scott,
It is true that the ECS motherboard will not boot without a graphics card.
I tried PCI cards but had better luck using AGP cards. The PCI cards caused linux to have a blank screen on bootup after installation setup and when loading XP it cause the system to go into a reboot loop.
I ordered three $45 AGP cards and problem resolved.

I could probably come up with a EPROM burner but don't want to spend $35 for a NIC. Just got a couple $9 one from tigerdirect. Want to go with the on board nic. I understand the "too busy" part. I told my friends I need to be left alone this week to work on a project. They did pretty good only 10 or so calls with computer questions.

I'm foaming at the mouth like a rabid dog wanting to see how you did it.
Since I don't have the time to invest trying to figure it out.
I will sit like a dog waiting for a treat.

Scotttheking · Jul 29, 2002, 12:17 AM

And of course the downside.
I did some tinkering with the netboot server's hardware, and now it won't boot.
Looks like tomorrow

, I'll be rebuilding the OS from scratch, and then rebuilding the netboot stuff.

Or else the HD actually failed, in which case I'm down for 3 weeks or so while I RMA the HD

mikkyo · Jul 29, 2002, 03:09 PM

The cases are a pretty insignificant cost too. $5-40 unless you want something fancy.

I'm all for a big server array, but it never seems to be a very efficient option.
Does anyone know of a power supply that has more than one MB power connector?
Or maybe a splitter? Though I doubt this wold work because I bet the power supplies are designed to output just MB power requirements and don't have any excess current to speak of.

If you could make a rack of MBs, powered by one or two beefy supplies, then you could save some serious money.
Or maybe get one beefy supply for the HDs only and little tiny supplies for the MBs.
How big a supply does a modern Athlon MB actually need to just run, without anything else?

Maybe we could build a supply that would put out enough power for 8 MBs or soemthing.

Of course, I have wanted the same thing for 15 years for the 50 powerbricks in my house too.
New perihperal? Just select the right plug, insert in a free jack in the SingleSupply BrickMaster(tm) and dial in the voltage/polarity for that device.
This of course saves unused powerbricks from sucking power.

sigh

Scotttheking · Jul 29, 2002, 10:16 PM

<blockquote>quote:<hr />Originally posted by mikkyo:
The cases are a pretty insignificant cost too. $5-40 unless you want something fancy.<hr /></blockquote>Plus they use a lot of space. And that is money.

<blockquote>quote:<hr />
I'm all for a big server array, but it never seems to be a very efficient option.
<hr /></blockquote>No big server array, just one server and a bunch of stripped comps

<blockquote>quote:<hr />
Does anyone know of a power supply that has more than one MB power connector?
Or maybe a splitter? Though I doubt this wold work because I bet the power supplies are designed to output just MB power requirements and don't have any excess current to speak of.
<hr /></blockquote><a href="http://free-dc.org/forum/showthread.php3?s=&threadid=721" target="_blank">http://free-dc.org/forum/showthread.php3?s=&threadid=721</a>

<blockquote>quote:<hr />
If you could make a rack of MBs, powered by one or two beefy supplies, then you could save some serious money.
Or maybe get one beefy supply for the HDs only and little tiny supplies for the MBs.
How big a supply does a modern Athlon MB actually need to just run, without anything else?

Maybe we could build a supply that would put out enough power for 8 MBs or soemthing.

Of course, I have wanted the same thing for 15 years for the 50 powerbricks in my house too.
New perihperal? Just select the right plug, insert in a free jack in the SingleSupply BrickMaster(tm) and dial in the voltage/polarity for that device.
This of course saves unused powerbricks from sucking power.

sigh<hr /></blockquote>I doubt this part will work, but maybe 2.

Scotttheking · Jul 29, 2002, 10:17 PM

BTW, after my nice problem, I recommend RAID 1 for the netboot server.

Scotttheking · Jul 29, 2002, 11:34 PM

<a href="http://teamstats.macnn.com/~distcomp/netboot/Netboot_Instructions.PDF" target="_blank">http://teamstats.macnn.com/~distcomp/netboot/Netboot_Instructions.PDF</a>
That's the PDF that I made of the instructions.
Here's the PostScript version, just in case.
<a href="http://teamstats.macnn.com/~distcomp/netboot/Netboot_Instructions.PS" target="_blank">http://teamstats.macnn.com/~distcomp/netboot/Netboot_Instructions.PS</a>
Here's the link to the site I took it from.
<a href="http://ws9.jobnegotiator.com/index.html" target="_blank">http://ws9.jobnegotiator.com/index.html</a>

After you read thru it LMK and I'll post more.
I'll try adding my stuff at a later date, also.

BTW, I recommend using the debian distro to setup the server.

[ 07-30-2002, 12:42 AM: Message edited by: Scotttheking ]

jbcool · Jul 31, 2002, 02:58 AM

Thanks for the information Scott. Will start reading.

mikkyo · Aug 3, 2002, 03:15 AM

Originally posted by Scotttheking
BTW, I recommend using the debian distro to setup the server.

Why not MacOS X Server?
After reading over the setup, it looks to me a lot like the way OS X Server does netbooting, like the same even.
You would have to make a UFS image for the linux system, and mess around a bit, but I bet it could be done.
Just think an XServe that can netboot all your macs and linux machines...
I bet that sounds good to you.

Scotttheking · Aug 3, 2002, 11:07 AM

Originally posted by mikkyo

Why not MacOS X Server?
After reading over the setup, it looks to me a lot like the way OS X Server does netbooting, like the same even.
You would have to make a UFS image for the linux system, and mess around a bit, but I bet it could be done.
Just think an XServe that can netboot all your macs and linux machines...
I bet that sounds good to you.

Except that I'm using a package that does the netbooting, and it's got a nice debian install set

Making images is a pain, since there are lots of the systems.
Also, I'm not buying an Xserve, too damn loud. And OSX server costs too much.

I set it up again last night on another hard drive, now working on getting that damn ECS mobo to boot. It's the most uncooperative thing.

Scotttheking · Aug 19, 2002, 02:14 AM

Ok, I've got it mostly working again.

I've got the netboot client doing seti right now.
I'll try and get DF running tomorrow night, and maybe I'll even have time to work on that stupid ECS board (which is really pissing me off).

Once I confirm that it's all working, I'll migrate it over to the new HD.
I had to RMA the HD because it failed, so I'll see if this other HD works (I put the brand new one in my server), and if it does, I'll netboot off that, if not, it's RMA time for it, and I'll use this old 8GB for now.

Scotttheking · Sep 17, 2002, 12:51 AM

DF works fine, with a decent amount of modification
Note that all of the following were run after modifying for DF
seti works fine, with slight modification
rc5 works fine, with slight modification
f@h works fine, seems to not need any modification

In about 2 weeks, I should have time to help anyone who wants to set it up.

Note that I haven't gotten the ECS K7S5A mobo to netboot, and that's the board's fault, not mine.

Also, I've seen no speed loss on a netboot system, and I'm doing it over a 10 base half duplex hub, too.

jbcool · Sep 17, 2002, 10:57 AM

Scott thanks for all your work on the netboot stuff.
Sorry to hear that the ECS motherboard in not working.