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reader50 · Apr 17, 2002, 10:15 PM

April 17, 2002, Milestones for the previous 13 days.

Future milestone posts will be for weekly milestones. These are our initial Distributed Folding Milestones.

notes: April 4, 2002 was when we started crunching for real on dFold. Milestones are based on the new protein benchmarks, although most units came from the earlier protein.

*Passed the 500 K milestone (16)
. . jbcool
. . slipjack
. . RIP
. . DAlex
. . Shaktai
. . SkiBikeSki
. . Scott
. . vesalius
. . enola
. . Wangdoodle
. . malson
. . Marc2211
. . BenDover
. . sklepp
. . wheeles
. . Mikkyo

*Passed the 1 M milestone (12)
. . jbcool
. . slipjack
. . RIP
. . DAlex
. . Shaktai
. . SkiBikeSki
. . Scott
. . vesalius
. . enola
. . shadron
. . Wangdoodle
. . malson

*Passed the 2.5 M milestone (5)
. . jbcool
. . slipjack
. . RIP
. . DAlex
. . Shaktai

*Passed the 5 M milestone (2)
. . jbcool
. . slipjack

Edit: Added 500 K milestones

[ 04-18-2002: Message edited by: reader50 ]

Grozni Majmun · Apr 17, 2002, 10:47 PM

So is 1M the smallest milestone?
With the new protein, I could pass that sometime in fall 2003....

malson · Apr 17, 2002, 11:14 PM

That's a very valid point. 1 million is quite a lot for someone who joins the team tomorrow or something. Maybe we should start at 250k or something close to it. I just got lucky and snuck above 1million before the new protein started. I'm back playing with Ubero so I haven't crunch any of the new stuff yet. Maybe next week

reader50 · Apr 17, 2002, 11:38 PM

The first milestone is figured this way:[list=1][*]an average system should take at least 30 days at full speed to reach it. I'm assuming an average system to be a G4 400.[*]A new high-end system should take at least a week, otherwise the milestone is too "cheap".[*]It should be an even milestone number (1, 2.5, 5 times x) so later milestones will be predictable intervals.[/list=a]
I used Shaktai's benchmarks on the new protein.

30 days = 720 hours.[list=1][*]Avg system (G4 400): about 700 per hour (estimated from other systems)
... 504 K per month.[*]High system (AMD since he doesn't have a GHz G4): 2517 per hour
... 1.8 M per month (would reach 1M in 16.5 days, 500K in 8.28 days)[/list=a]
500K was workable for the avg system, but means a "good" peecee could break it single-handedly in just over 8 days. A dual GHz G4 would likely break it in 6.1 days, assuming two instances of the client, and 1700 per hour on each CPU.

The options seemed to be either 500K or 1M for the first milestone. 500K looked good for the average system, but was really easy to break for the high-end. What do you think guys? Should I make it 500 K, and have it really easy for new computers? It seems like a MacNN Milestone should require some effort to reach.

Shaktai · Apr 18, 2002, 12:13 AM

Originally posted by reader50:
The first milestone is figured this way:[list=1][*]an average system should take at least 30 days at full speed to reach it. I'm assuming an average system to be a G4 400.[*]A new high-end system should take at least a week, otherwise the milestone is too "cheap".[*]It should be an even milestone number (1, 2.5, 5 times x) so later milestones will be predictable intervals.[/list=a]
I used Shaktai's benchmarks on the new protein.

30 days = 720 hours.[list=1][*]Avg system (G4 400): about 700 per hour (estimated from other systems)
... 504 K per month.[*]High system (AMD since he doesn't have a GHz G4): 2517 per hour
... 1.8 M per month (would reach 1M in 16.5 days, 500K in 8.28 days)[/list=a]
500K was workable for the avg system, but means a "good" peecee could break it single-handedly in just over 8 days. A dual GHz G4 would likely break it in 6.1 days, assuming two instances of the client, and 1700 per hour on each CPU.

The options seemed to be either 500K or 1M for the first milestone. 500K looked good for the average system, but was really easy to break for the high-end. What do you think guys? Should I make it 500 K, and have it really easy for new computers? It seems like a MacNN Milestone should require some effort to reach.

I took the mean average of my 800 mhz Power Mac and my 1 ghz Celeron and came up with a daily average of 32304 for an equivelent "theoretical hybrid" 900mhz machine. It would take 31 days to hit the million mark. Therefore it would take a "theoretical 450 mhz 62 days. While I think that the benchmarks shouldn't be too easy, at the same time I don't think we want to discourage the single cpu producers either. I opt for a 500,000 benchmark, as it is more attainable for the folks with less than 600 mhz and 1 CPU.

Keep in mind that my benchmarks are based upon CLI clients in quiet mode and a lot of effort to keep them crunching effeciently 24/7. I think the 500,000 benchmark. While not significant to anyone with a big machine, or those "like me" with multiple computers, it is a goal that a single CPU iMac user could reach in a reasonable time, thereby encouraging more participation.

SkiBikeSki · Apr 18, 2002, 12:35 AM

Well I can't say which is best but i can offer some more benchmarks in useful forms. I urge other to follow my example.

G4-867
Units per day = 32,587.2
Units completed in 7 days = 228,110.4
Units completed in 30 days = 977,616.0
# Days to 500K = 15.3
# Days to 1M = 30.6

Athlon XP-1466
Units per day = 70,472.7
Units completed in 7 days = 493,309.1
Units completed in 30 days = 2,114,181.8
# Days to 500K = 7.1
# Days to 1M = 14.2

Seems like someone like me, with two CPU's or more, could pass 500K to easily, 4.9 days.

Grozni Majmun · Apr 18, 2002, 11:58 AM

Originally posted by SkiBikeSki:
Seems like someone like me, with two CPU's or more, could pass 500K to easily, 4.9 days.

Yes, but if you adopt the 1M milestone, you could argue the same about someone with 4 CPUs etc.

Reader, thanks for the explanation. I understand the dilemma; I guess my "problem" is that I don't have my computer on at night, and that I use it during part of the day, which adversely affects my crunch rate.

I think Shaktai has a good point about the milestones working as an incentive for crunchers at all levels. Sure the 500K milestone would be really easy for a major cruncher. He wouldn't even notice it before he passed it. But then 1M or 2M or 5M would be the milestone that he might be crunching for, and the fact that he hit the first milestone quickly doesn't really detract from that, or?

Sure, the milestones are not THAT important, and I don't think it will completely keep anyone from crunching, but we might as well make them work for everyone. That's just my $0.02, anyway. I'll stop typing now so I don't suck CPU cycles away from dfold...

jbcool · Apr 18, 2002, 12:17 PM

Originally posted by reader50:
The options seemed to be either 500K or 1M for the first milestone. 500K looked good for the average system, but was really easy to break for the high-end. What do you think guys? Should I make it 500 K, and have it really easy for new computers? It seems like a MacNN Milestone should require some effort to reach.

I may be way off base here so you are invited to call me on it.
I would vote for the 500K mark for the following reasons.
All team efforts come from people that are gracious enough to share their spare processing time and internet band with to help others. I think every effort from those wonderful people should be acknowledged. Yes some of us can blast through the 500k a day others it might take a month or more. In the dfold project the person that contributes the stucture that might make a difference for millions of people in the future may just be the guy with the least amount of processing power to give.
So as you can see I consider every effort/gift important.

reader50 · Apr 18, 2002, 01:07 PM

It looks like the 500K votes are ahead. Does anyone else want to render their opinion?

Unless the general opinion swings the other way, I'll redo the Milestones tonight. (it won't take long)

Speaking for myself, I wish we had a better idea of the speeds on future proteins. The project people have said that the general trend will be towards slower work, but CPUs get faster with time too. I don't know which will end up ahead. We would have guessed wrong badly based on the last protein, for a while the first milestone looked like it was going to be 2.5M.

SkiBikeSki · Apr 18, 2002, 01:32 PM

I'm officially making my vote for 500K. Let's make the first hurdle low so that newbies are happy quickly, and get their name on team.macnn.com. Where would be the harm in that?

BTW Grozni Majmun yes you could argue that for 3 or more CPU's too. But having 1 or 2 CPU's is far more common than 3 or more, so I didn't argue it any further. I also was using myself as an example, and I only wish I had 3 or more, but I've only got 2.

Grozni Majmun · Apr 18, 2002, 02:30 PM

Originally posted by SkiBikeSki:
...and I only wish I had 3 or more....

Me too

jbcool · Apr 18, 2002, 06:50 PM

Originally posted by reader50:
It looks like the 500K votes are ahead.

Unless the general opinion swings the other way, I'll redo the Milestones tonight. (it won't take long)

Not an opinion just a question.
Is there any down side?

As always thank you for all your hard work.

reader50 · Apr 18, 2002, 10:11 PM

Milestones have been reset.

Originally posted by jbcool:
Not an opinion just a question.
Is there any down side?

As always thank you for all your hard work.

Thanks.

It may seem silly, but I try to keep the Milestones and other stats "fair". For example, if the first milestone is much easier to reach in one project, it would look like we were playing favorites, trying to encourage members to crunch on that project. Also, I don't like to switch the rules without good reason, it feels like cheating.

Having said all that, it sure looks like 500 K is where the first dFold Milestone should be. Setting it to 1 M was a mistake, I promise to make many more.

Shaktai · Apr 19, 2002, 12:00 AM

Originally posted by reader50:
Milestones have been reset.

Thanks.

It may seem silly, but I try to keep the Milestones and other stats "fair". For example, if the first milestone is much easier to reach in one project, it would look like we were playing favorites, trying to encourage members to crunch on that project. Also, I don't like to switch the rules without good reason, it feels like cheating.

Having said all that, it sure looks like 500 K is where the first dFold Milestone should be. Setting it to 1 M was a mistake, I promise to make many more.

Mistakes with good intentions are allowed. I think 500,000 is a good decision. Hindsight is always 20/20.

jbcool · Apr 19, 2002, 12:34 AM

Originally posted by reader50:
Milestones have been reset.

Thanks.

It may seem silly, but I try to keep the Milestones and other stats "fair". For example, if the first milestone is much easier to reach in one project, it would look like we were playing favorites, trying to encourage members to crunch on that project. Also, I don't like to switch the rules without good reason, it feels like cheating.

Having said all that, it sure looks like 500 K is where the first dFold Milestone should be. Setting it to 1 M was a mistake, I promise to make many more.

I don't consider it a mistake, just a different point of view.
That is why I asked for your point of view.

Now if you want to talk about someone that make mistakes.
I think I could take top honors for mistakes.

Shaktai · Apr 19, 2002, 12:40 AM

Originally posted by jbcool:


I don't consider it a mistake, just a different point of view.
That is why I asked for your point of view.

Now if you want to talk about someone that make mistakes.
I think I could take top honors for mistakes.

Now I might challenge you to that top honor, but I don't think this forum could handle that much dirty laundry, besides then I couldn't keep the skeletons hid.

reader50 · Apr 26, 2002, 01:29 AM

April 24, 2002, Milestones for the previous 7 days.

*Passed the 500 K milestone (1)
. . uocooper

*Passed the 2.5 M milestone (3)
. . SkiBikeSki
. . enola
. . vesalius

[ 04-26-2002: Message edited by: reader50 ]

enola · Apr 26, 2002, 11:01 PM

You're going to have to add a 10 million milestone to your collection pretty soon for slipjack and jbcool!

Shaktai · Apr 26, 2002, 11:30 PM

Originally posted by enola:
You're going to have to add a 10 million milestone to your collection pretty soon for slipjack and jbcool!

Soon to be followed by enola

Who'd of thunk it so soon?

reader50 · Apr 26, 2002, 11:32 PM

Milestones go 12 steps internally, and can be extended easily. For dFold, it goes to 2.5 B. Only milestones that have been passed show on the page.

reader50 · May 2, 2002, 12:07 AM

May 1, 2002, Milestones for the previous 7 days.

*Passed the 500 K milestone (2)
. . SebastianCelis
. . doughboyj

*Passed the 1 M milestone (2)
. . Mikkyo
. . sklepp

*Passed the 5 M milestone (3)
. . enola
. . DAlex
. . RIP

*Passed the 10 M milestone (3)
. . enola
. . jbcool
. . slipjack

reader50 · May 9, 2002, 01:10 AM

May 8, 2002, Milestones for the previous 7 days.

*Passed the 500 K milestone (2)
. . Luxx
. . akira2501

*Passed the 1 M milestone (5)
. . wheeles
. . SebastianCelis
. . Marc2211
. . Luxx
. . BenDover

*Passed the 2.5 M milestone (2)
. . Wangdoodle
. . Scott

*Passed the 5 M milestone (1)
. . SkiBikeSki

*Passed the 25 M milestone (1)
. . enola

reader50 · May 16, 2002, 01:53 AM

May 15, 2002, Milestones for the previous 7 days.

*Passed the 500 K milestone (1)
. . loehman

*Passed the 1 M milestone (1)
. . uocooper

*Passed the 2.5 M milestone (1)
. . Kevin

*Passed the 5 M milestone (2)
. . vesalius
. . Shaktai

reader50 · May 23, 2002, 01:25 AM

May 22, 2002, Milestones for the previous 7 days.

*Passed the 500 K milestone (2)
. . Grozni Majmun
. . Bockie

*Passed the 1 M milestone (1)
. . loehman

*Passed the 2.5 M milestone (2)
. . Mikkyo
. . Luxx

*Passed the 10 M milestone (2)
. . RIP
. . DAlex

*Passed the 50 M milestone (1)
. . enola

reader50 · May 30, 2002, 02:09 AM

May 29, 2002, Milestones for the previous 7 days.

*Passed the 500 K milestone (2)
. . maitoh
. . nealconner

*Passed the 5 M milestone (3)
. . Mikkyo
. . mattbishop
. . Scott

reader50 · Jun 7, 2002, 03:59 PM

June 5, 2002, Milestones for the previous 7 days.

*Passed the 500 K milestone (1)
. . CobraMac

*Passed the 1 M milestone (1)
. . CobraMac

*Passed the 5 M milestone (1)
. . Luxx

reader50 · Jun 13, 2002, 01:11 AM

June 12, 2002, Milestones for the previous 7 days.

*Passed the 1 M milestone (1)
. . Dale

*Passed the 2.5 M milestone (1)
. . CobraMac

*Passed the 10 M milestone (1)
. . Mikkyo

reader50 · Jun 21, 2002, 12:30 AM

June 19, 2002, Milestones for the previous 7 days.

*Passed the 500 K milestone (1)
. . rich3rd

*Passed the 1 M milestone (2)
. . rich3rd
. . maitoh

*Passed the 5 M milestone (1)
. . CobraMac

*Passed the 10 M milestone (2)
. . vesalius
. . CobraMac

reader50 · Jun 27, 2002, 10:11 PM

June 26, 2002, Milestones for the previous 7 days.

*Passed the 500 K milestone (1)
. . discstickers

*Passed the 2.5 M milestone (1)
. . Marc2211

reader50 · Jul 4, 2002, 12:50 AM

July 3, 2002, Milestones for the previous 7 days.

*Passed the 25 M milestone (1)
. . solarpower

reader50 · Jul 12, 2002, 12:03 AM

July 10, 2002, Milestones for the previous 7 days.

*Passed the 500 K milestone (4)
. . evilbob
. . Genet
. . serpico
. . jasoncook

*Passed the 1 M milestone (1)
. . discstickers

*Passed the 2.5 M milestone (2)
. . SebastianCelis
. . rich3rd

*Passed the 10 M milestone (2)
. . Luxx
. . mattbishop

*Passed the 25 M milestone (1)
. . slipjack

jamesa · Jul 16, 2002, 09:50 AM

hehe, Yoda just rocked up with the clone army

I've got 30 P3-800s I've just added to the team effort - they'll be on as much as possible

-- james

Scotttheking · Jul 16, 2002, 10:50 AM

<blockquote>quote:<hr />Originally posted by jamesa:
hehe, Yoda just rocked up with the clone army

I've got 30 P3-800s I've just added to the team effort - they'll be on as much as possible

-- james<hr /></blockquote>NICE
Hmm, you might be able to pass me with that!

discstickers · Jul 16, 2002, 11:02 AM

<blockquote>quote:<hr />Originally posted by jamesa:
hehe, Yoda just rocked up with the clone army

I've got 30 P3-800s I've just added to the team effort - they'll be on as much as possible

-- james<hr /></blockquote><img border="0" title="" alt="[Eek!]" src="eek.gif" />

jamesa · Jul 18, 2002, 10:40 PM

If you have a look at the graph at <a href="http://sjaffa.dyndns.org/~distcomp/team5/dfold/stats.php?page=base" target="_blank">http://sjaffa.dyndns.org/~distcomp/team5/dfold/stats.php?page=base</a>

you see a sharp rise on July 16 - that's when the jamesa clone army came in to help the Jedi masters!

gavino

reader50 · Jul 20, 2002, 12:35 AM

July 17, 2002, Milestones for the previous 7 days.

*Passed the 500 K milestone (1)
. . jamesa

*Passed the 1 M milestone (1)
. . jamesa

*Passed the 2.5 M milestone (1)
. . loehman

*Passed the 25 M milestone (2)
. . CobraMac
. . Mikkyo

jamesa · Jul 21, 2002, 12:40 AM

<blockquote>quote:<hr />Originally posted by jamesa:
If you have a look at the graph at <a href="http://sjaffa.dyndns.org/~distcomp/team5/dfold/stats.php?page=base" target="_blank">http://sjaffa.dyndns.org/~distcomp/team5/dfold/stats.php?page=base</a>

you see a sharp rise on July 16 - that's when the jamesa clone army came in to help the Jedi masters!

gavino

<hr /></blockquote>oi Gav, don't post with my account

We're closing in on team number 9 again guys, hopefully we'll be able to get them soon

-- james

reader50 · Jul 21, 2002, 01:33 AM

<blockquote>quote:<hr />Originally posted by jamesa:
...

We're closing in on team number 9 again guys, hopefully we'll be able to get them soon

-- james<hr /></blockquote>We didn't actually get booted down to #10 in the normal way. The Knights are running two teams just now, which is why an extra team got into the Top 10 above us. Once the Knights get tired of it and recombine their accounts, we will be in #9 again. Or #8 once we pass the slowpokes ahead.

jamesa · Jul 22, 2002, 02:27 AM

awww, fcuk it. The AirCon has blown in the room with the peecees in it.

Goddamm intel CPUs put out too much heat to run without proper cooling, and it doesn't look like the part is going to be in for another few days yet.

-- james

The_Equivocator · Jul 22, 2002, 11:29 AM

<blockquote>quote:<hr />Originally posted by jamesa:
awww, fcuk it. The AirCon has blown in the room with the peecees in it.

Goddamm intel CPUs put out too much heat to run without proper cooling, and it doesn't look like the part is going to be in for another few days yet.

-- james<hr /></blockquote>Suck. I was wondering what had happened to your power... <img border="0" title="" alt="[Frown]" src="frown.gif" />

gavino · Jul 23, 2002, 12:10 AM

The good news is that the aircon is getting fixed hopefully tomorrow and after that the peecee clone army will be churning away. Prepare for an onlsaught of protein folding in the coming week, starting from Friday. They should be able to go about a week straight without interruption

Should be able to crack 10 Million by this time next week.

--gavino (jamesa's partner in crime - co-sysadmin of clone army

)

jamesa · Jul 23, 2002, 05:16 AM

<blockquote>quote:<hr />Originally posted by The_Equivocator:
Suck. I was wondering what had happened to your power...

<hr /></blockquote>I think we're back on - not at full power though.

back to 21 pcs, will be on full 30 from Thurs PM onwards hopefully <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="wink.gif" />

-- james

[ 07-23-2002, 06:21 AM: Message edited by: jamesa ]

reader50 · Jul 25, 2002, 12:35 AM

July 24, 2002, Milestones for the previous 7 days.

*Passed the 500 K milestone (1)
. . xtopolop

*Passed the 1 M milestone (1)
. . evilbob

*Passed the 2.5 M milestone (1)
. . jamesa

*Passed the 5 M milestone (1)
. . jamesa

*Passed the 10 M milestone (1)
. . Scott

Scotttheking · Jul 25, 2002, 12:40 AM

<blockquote>quote:<hr />Originally posted by reader50:
July 24, 2002, Milestones for the previous 7 days.

*Passed the 10 M milestone (1)
. . Scott<hr /></blockquote>

jamesa · Jul 25, 2002, 09:12 AM

<blockquote>quote:<hr />Originally posted by Scotttheking:

<hr /></blockquote>heh, congrats Scott

I have a suggestion for the stats page - would it be able to keep track of the differences in crunched numbers between us, the five teams below us and the five teams in front of us? It would just be good to be able to see whether we're gaining on any teams, and graphs to show how close we are to the teams above and below us would be fantastic as well.

Like a rear view mirror and a front firing distance radar

-- james

[ 07-25-2002, 10:14 AM: Message edited by: jamesa ]

Scotttheking · Jul 25, 2002, 09:17 AM

<blockquote>quote:<hr />Originally posted by jamesa:
 <blockquote>quote:<hr />Originally posted by Scotttheking:

<hr /></blockquote>heh, congrats Scott

I have a suggestion for the stats page - would it be able to keep track of the differences in crunched numbers between us, the five teams below us and the five teams in front of us? It would just be good to be able to see whether we're gaining on any teams, and graphs to show how close we are to the teams above and below us would be fantastic as well.

Like a rear view mirror and a front firing distance radar

-- james<hr /></blockquote><a href="http://team.macnn.com/dfold/rank1.phtml" target="_blank">http://team.macnn.com/dfold/rank1.phtml</a>

reader50 · Jul 25, 2002, 10:22 AM

Also <a href="http://team.macnn.com/dfold/rank2.phtml" target="_blank">http://team.macnn.com/dfold/rank2.phtml</a> - this one offers more info, and the graphs that you are looking for.

If you meant something else, please say so. I'm rewriting our stats code, so new features are easier to do just now.

jamesa · Jul 26, 2002, 02:30 AM

<blockquote>quote:<hr />Originally posted by reader50:
Also <a href="http://team.macnn.com/dfold/rank2.phtml" target="_blank">http://team.macnn.com/dfold/rank2.phtml</a> - this one offers more info, and the graphs that you are looking for.

If you meant something else, please say so. I'm rewriting our stats code, so new features are easier to do just now.<hr /></blockquote>Those are great, and I didn't know they were there, but they weren't quite what I meant.

I was thinking more like a history of the difference in total keys between the relevant teams. We have graphs at the moment that show how many keys we're crunching a day, and how many keys we've crunched overall - whatabout if you could do something similar, but with the competitors' graphs overlayed on to it as well. It would be a good way of visually seeing how quickly we're catching them (or heaven forbid, how quick they're catching us).

Adding to the tables a column with the difference in keys between us and each team would be great also.

Cheers

-- james

reader50 · Jul 26, 2002, 03:04 AM

<blockquote>quote:<hr />Originally posted by jamesa:
...

We have graphs at the moment that show how many keys we're crunching a day, and how many keys we've crunched overall - whatabout if you could do something similar, but with the competitors' graphs overlayed on to it as well.

..<hr /></blockquote>I must be missing something. On the rank2 page I linked above, scroll down below the Advanced Team Ranks table to see the graphs that compare us to other teams. There are three graphs, each covering 30-180 days (varies by project), each comparing us to 10 other teams (5 ahead, 5 behind).
1. Our totals curve vs theirs.
2. Our rate per day curve vs theirs.
3. Our active members count vs theirs.

Surely this is what you meant?

jamesa · Jul 26, 2002, 10:16 AM

<blockquote>quote:<hr />Originally posted by reader50:
 <blockquote>quote:<hr />Originally posted by jamesa:
...

We have graphs at the moment that show how many keys we're crunching a day, and how many keys we've crunched overall - whatabout if you could do something similar, but with the competitors' graphs overlayed on to it as well.

..<hr /></blockquote>I must be missing something. On the rank2 page I linked above, scroll down below the Advanced Team Ranks table to see the graphs that compare us to other teams. There are three graphs, each covering 30-180 days (varies by project), each comparing us to 10 other teams (5 ahead, 5 behind).
1. Our totals curve vs theirs.
2. Our rate per day curve vs theirs.
3. Our active members count vs theirs.

Surely this is what you meant?<hr /></blockquote>dammit, it didn't load in my browser before - I just saw the table.

Sorry about that, if you want to clean up the forum by deleting some of my posts, go right ahead

sorry again reader50

-- james