[reader50]

LWD has added 11.4 K since yesterday (Sgt Bilko moved over from Phoenix Rising), and closed the intercept to 13 days.

Before big games, major sports teams post enemy quotes in their locker rooms to inspire the team members.

Once again, it is time to post inspirational Locker Room Quotes from an enemy camp. As usual, quotes may be "slightly" out of context.

Originally posted by Jonathan here
"Let's see ... our next target is ... Team MacNN
... now let's get those fruits!"

Originally posted by fathertyme here
"Everyone knows a good PC will outperform a mac any day of the week"

or from this thread:

Originally posted by Lake
"Would it be in bad taste to dance on their graves?"

Originally posted by Jay-C
"bring on MacNN!"

and over here:

Originally posted by JustAnEngineer
"We've only got a few more weeks to taunt the Mac-i-philes before they're history."

Originally posted by bamzippow
"Looks like we've got them chasing their own tails in their own yard!"

Originally posted by Lake
"You dogs should have warned me it was a Mac site. Now I feel dirty and will have to spend the whole day getting hosed down. I was not impressed with the discussion over there."

Originally posted by perrito_blanco
"I can smell the fear."
"This will be a sweet stomp"

Originally posted by Spot
"They will be 0wn3d."

Originally posted by edh
"Geee and what good is that mac for then? Oh yeah showing that you can over spend for an under powered plastic box desgined by a marketing guy."

Originally posted by Silent Stile
"You mean Macs really are not just overgrown fruits?"

Originally posted by fathertyme
"the outcome is innevitable my friends, lets run them into the ground!"
"we have them completely outpowered!"

Originally posted by banana
"they must be scared now!"

Originally posted by JAmZ
"If they only had eyes in the back of their head like us dogs they would have seen us coming and could have prepared for the @ss whoppin they are about to receive."
":::: pauses and wonders what Team MacNN might think about this :::::"
"we got them running scared."

Originally posted by Medic99
"I drink to that"

Originally posted by iceman
"it's only a matter of time"

The following are bonus statements. Not specific to MacNN, but PC users showing their true feelings nonetheless.

from this thread:
Originally posted by random
Poor mac users...
I think we can take em.

Originally posted by Brain
a target for all my pent up Mac Aggression
...
Oh the unbridled Joy - I get to crush Crapintosh lovers

Originally posted by Lake
Die Apple lovers. Die.

... and here:
Originally posted by beast
"what a group of losers they are."

For the curious, the last Locker Room quotes were from OCN, and were posted here. PC users seem much alike.

My crunching power has been moved back to SETI@home. Let's hand out an attitude adjustment.

[ 04-20-2002: Message edited by: reader50 ]

[Shaktai]

Okay reader,

You know I am committed to the dFold competition and the folding projects, but I'll give you 24 hours of full crunch power before it starts, just to help make a statement.

C'mon, any one else willing to jump in for a day (or two or three)? You don't have to abandon your current projects, let's just show them what we can do if we want to.

[jbcool]

I read all this babble and came to this conclusion.

If the don't understand that this is all in fun and helping others
then the are really missing what DC projects are all about.

Most computers have things that one does better than others.
I got my Macs for audio and video and the PCs are tasked with other
more boring projects.

I'm commited to the folding projects so I will bow out this time
for giving them a good slap.

[Grozni Majmun]

I'm in for a little bit. Just installed seti. Now I have tried all of the projects we're doing.

I don't do it for the project or the team or anything, I am just the kind of guy who loves kicking little white dogs....

[jbcool]

Originally posted by Grozni Majmun:
<STRONG>
I don't do it for the project or the team or anything, I am just the kind of guy who loves kicking little white dogs.... </STRONG>

Thanks for the laugh!

[reader50]

Originally posted by jbcool:
<STRONG>I read all this babble and came to this conclusion.

If the don't understand that this is all in fun and helping others
then the are really missing what DC projects are all about.
...</STRONG>

The way I figure it is they will post this sort of stuff anyway. So we might as well get some use out of it and have a little fun at the same time. I don't take it too seriously.

Besides, we needed new posting material for the recruiting drive. (hint, hint)

[jbcool]

Originally posted by reader50:
<STRONG>
The way I figure it is they will post this sort of stuff anyway. So we might as well get some use out of it and have a little fun at the same time. I don't take it too seriously.

Besides, we needed new posting material for the recruiting drive. (hint, hint) </STRONG>

Sorry,
I'm a little slow MOST times, I grab my football and go play.
These confusers are way over my head, yea all 15 of them.
I am going to see if I can find a life now.

[Shaktai]

This is always fun. It will be fun to slow down LWD for a day or two. I can only give 1 - 1.5 days of effort, but you will have 100% for that time.

I know it isn't likely to happen, but it would be fun to see what we could do, if we put 100% of our crunch power on one project for one day. Of course I doubt that we could all agree on that "one project".

[wheeles]

OK I'm jumping to Seti for a while. It'd be good to see what happened if all Team MacNN jumped to Seti for a day or so.

[TheJoshu]

Very inspiring! Maybe we ought to be recruiting outside of the home base...

[reader50]

LWD is talking big, but there may be a note of desperation hidden inside. Check out their recruiting efforts.

[ 04-21-2002: Message edited by: reader50 ]

[Shaktai]

Originally posted by reader50:
<STRONG>LWD is talking big, but there may be a note of desperation hidden inside. Check out their recruiting efforts.

[ 04-21-2002: Message edited by: reader50 ]</STRONG>

Well you know that little dogs always bark a lot. They are just getting frustrated.

[sideus]

I've always felt that the PowerPC processor would handle Seti a little better than x86. Intel and HP are sponsors, so I wonder if there is a little conspiracy going on?

[SkiBikeSki]

Originally posted by sideus:
<STRONG>I've always felt that the PowerPC processor would handle Seti a little better than x86. Intel and HP are sponsors, so I wonder if there is a little conspiracy going on? </STRONG>

You used to be right. Prior to version 3.0, the PPC with it's 512K or 1MB of L2 cache outperformed any PC. That's because those versions of SETI used a huge amount of variables in their code. Now thev've added the pulse and tripelet code, which uses fewer varables, and needs only MHz. However the fast fourier transforms are still faster on a Mac. But they two don't cancell each other out.

[lwd_iceman]

Originally posted by sideus:
<STRONG>I've always felt that the PowerPC processor would handle Seti a little better than x86. Intel and HP are sponsors, so I wonder if there is a little conspiracy going on? </STRONG>

off topic - I tend to agree... the new FFT's in the 3.0 client have some impact, but not equally across the board. PowerPC has always had a pretty good FPU. Remember the old days 604 vs. PentiumPro on NT? The 604 typically ran faster clock for clock.

The Win32 CLI client is faster per clock for clock than the others on Intel chips in general terms (P6 vs. K7 for example). Probably has to do more with Intel's compiler plugins for MS Visual C++ more than anything.

Anybody looked deeply into the Mac clients (esp the classic client which is fairly old). Metroworks or MPW? Did they turn on any of the PPC optmizations for the build? It's been a long time since I've compiled anything on the Mac, but IIRC CodeWarrior did have build time switches for compiler optimizations, as does GCC... if they built for generic PPC vice 604 and higher, this could make a difference...

lwd_iceman

[wheeles]

Originally posted by TheJoshu:
<STRONG>Very inspiring! Maybe we ought to be recruiting outside of the home base...</STRONG>

If we are looking to recruit outside of MacNN then we need to hit a few places where Mac users congregate. One prime example is the Apple Support discussions. Rather than blatantly post that we are recruiting just answer a few questions and put a team link and a suitable message in you sig. Even if there isn't a signature feature (like Apple Support) there's nothing to stop you tacking one to the end of your post.

That reminds me I ought to sort out a sig here. I'm quite tempted to hack the LW doggie one.

[Shaktai]

Originally posted by lwd_iceman:
<STRONG>

off topic - I tend to agree... the new FFT's in the 3.0 client have some impact, but not equally across the board. PowerPC has always had a pretty good FPU. Remember the old days 604 vs. PentiumPro on NT? The 604 typically ran faster clock for clock.

The Win32 CLI client is faster per clock for clock than the others on Intel chips in general terms (P6 vs. K7 for example). Probably has to do more with Intel's compiler plugins for MS Visual C++ more than anything.

Anybody looked deeply into the Mac clients (esp the classic client which is fairly old). Metroworks or MPW? Did they turn on any of the PPC optmizations for the build? It's been a long time since I've compiled anything on the Mac, but IIRC CodeWarrior did have build time switches for compiler optimizations, as does GCC... if they built for generic PPC vice 604 and higher, this could make a difference...

lwd_iceman</STRONG>

It is my understanding that SETI team did look at optimizing the Mac Client including possible G4 optimizations, but they were already struggling with server load, and decided that providing additional speed optimizations to any of the clients, would only compound their already severe server demand problems.

[SkiBikeSki]

Originally posted by Shaktai:
<STRONG>

It is my understanding that SETI team did look at optimizing the Mac Client including possible G4 optimizations, but they were already struggling with server load, and decided that providing additional speed optimizations to any of the clients, would only compound their already severe server demand problems.</STRONG>

They also want to keep the core of their software, the functions that actually do the FFT and pulses and triplelets, as consistant as possible accross the board. They want only to make minor changes in order to release it for another OS. Inlcluding Alti-Vec or MMX or 3DNow optimizations would mean to much work everytime they made an update.

[lwd_iceman]

Originally posted by SkiBikeSki:
<STRONG>

They also want to keep the core of their software, the functions that actually do the FFT and pulses and triplelets, as consistant as possible accross the board. They want only to make minor changes in order to release it for another OS. Inlcluding Alti-Vec or MMX or 3DNow optimizations would mean to much work everytime they made an update.</STRONG>

Not actual code optimizations for extended instructions (ie AltiVec, SSE/SSE2/3DNow) but build time for the core code. This they have done with the Intel x86 command line client. Same code as the others, but why does it run faster... simple explanation is that the build is platform optimized... if you look in the x86 Linux based clients, there are actually two forks, one for i686 and one for everything else (and equal but separate glibc builds to support older linux distributions)

lwd_iceman

[SkiBikeSki]

i'd day it runs faster on PC's cause of their faster L1 and L2 chache. Sorta like how it used to run faster on Macs cause of our larger l2 cache.

[lwd_iceman]

Originally posted by SkiBikeSki:
<STRONG>i'd day it runs faster on PC's cause of their faster L1 and L2 chache. Sorta like how it used to run faster on Macs cause of our larger l2 cache.</STRONG>

Cache is relative, but it does reflect the onward march of technology.

Any thoughts on this?
http://www.viahardware.com/x86apple.shtm

lwd_iceman

[sideus]

Iceman, I looked at the article. It makes no mention of IBM's side of things when it comes to the PowerPC processor.

[Shaktai]

Originally posted by sideus:
<STRONG>Iceman, I looked at the article. It makes no mention of IBM's side of things when it comes to the PowerPC processor.</STRONG>

It not only makes no mention of IBM's solutions or their contributions to G4 production, but it also fails to mention that the "Hammer" won't be available until the end of 2002. It does not consider the established fact that neither Motorola or Apple announce or demonstrate next generation technology until they are ready or very near ready to be released. It presumes that Motorola will not bring the G5 to market on a timely basis (despite indications that it is progressing nicely) and that the Hammer will be the first PC desktop true 64 bit chip. Only time will tell, but I do expect to see G5's before Hammer. I also expect to see 1 more generation of G4's before the G5.

[Shaktai]

Well, I just have one machine left crunching SETI, the others have already been moved back to dFold for the competition, and the last machine will be moved as soon as it finishes up. However I did complete 11 units in the last 24 hours, and a total of 16 in a day and a half, even though I started moving machines over 10 hours ago. That ought to help a little.

I didn't really get my Macs or PC's optimized for SETI since I was only running for 24 to 36 hours, otherwise I might have managed a few more.

[lwd_iceman]

Originally posted by Shaktai:
<STRONG>

It not only makes no mention of IBM's solutions or their contributions to G4 production, but it also fails to mention that the "Hammer" won't be available until the end of 2002. It does not consider the established fact that neither Motorola or Apple announce or demonstrate next generation technology until they are ready or very near ready to be released. It presumes that Motorola will not bring the G5 to market on a timely basis (despite indications that it is progressing nicely) and that the Hammer will be the first PC desktop true 64 bit chip. Only time will tell, but I do expect to see G5's before Hammer. I also expect to see 1 more generation of G4's before the G5.</STRONG>

It raises some interesting points, but it is unlikely that Apple would switch over. But considering that darwin already has support in place for x86, it would not be a major effort to port the rest of the code over from the NextStep side. Moving bluebox over would be more of an effort, and one with little actual need, as ISV's are moving more to MacOS X native code.

Much is speculation, that includes support for Hammer's 64-bit instructions. AMD doesn't have the best record in promoting their extensions to the x86 ISA...

lwd_iceman

[Shaktai]

Originally posted by lwd_iceman:
<STRONG>

It raises some interesting points.......

Much is speculation, that includes support for Hammer's 64-bit instructions. AMD doesn't have the best record in promoting their extensions to the x86 ISA...

lwd_iceman</STRONG>

That really sums it up. It is an interesting possibility, but unlikely at this time.

[reader50]

The dogs have found this thread finally. Links all over the place, and it only took them 2 days to sniff it out.

Edit: iceman did find it a day sooner.

[ 04-23-2002: Message edited by: reader50 ]

[SkiBikeSki]

Originally posted by reader50:
[QB]The dogs have found this thread finally. Links all over the place, and it only took them 2 days to sniff it out.

Edit: iceman did find it a day sooner.
QB]

I feel dirty just from reading it. UNCLEAN! UNCLEAN!

Originally posted by SkiBikeSki:
<STRONG>

I feel dirty just from reading it. UNCLEAN! UNCLEAN!</STRONG>

Then I guess you know how we feel when we come here I gotta say you've given us a good run for our money, but unfortunately our little chase is about to come to an end. This is going to be one of our most rewarding stomps because, quite frankly, it's been one of our most difficult. So for that I tip my hat to you, and I'll be sure to wave a paw as we go by.

- Jonathan

[SkiBikeSki]

Originally posted by &lt;LWDJonathan&gt;:
<STRONG>

Then I guess you know how we feel when we come here </STRONG>

I felt dirty not from reading a PC oriented forum. But from all the trash talk and foul mouth. You guys should be ashamed of yourselves.

[wheeles]

Come on LWD, hurry up and pass us. I'm keen to go and fold a few proteins. Do I really have to wait another week?

Assuming that you do finally manage to pass us, which team is next on the list to enjoy your witty repartee?

Taking a quick look at the teams ahead I think there could be a lot of LWD fun to be had in a tear up with Team Picard. Much that I like Sci-Fi their forum was just a tad too trekkie for my tastes. Plenty of opportunity for taunts there, however.

[ 04-24-2002: Message edited by: wheeles ]

[enola]

Originally posted by SkiBikeSki:
<STRONG>I felt dirty not from reading a PC oriented forum. But from all the trash talk and foul mouth.</STRONG>

I felt like I made a wrong turn and walked into the boy's locker room. I ran out with my hands over my ears.

[wheeles]

Originally posted by enola:
<STRONG>

I felt like I made a wrong turn and walked into the boy's locker room. I ran out with my hands over my ears.</STRONG>

Not your eyes?

[enola]

Originally posted by wheeles:
<STRONG>

Not your eyes? </STRONG>

That too!

[sideus]

LWD forum is filthy with trash talk. At least we are somewhat more mature,

[ 04-24-2002: Message edited by: sideus ]

[JAmZ SeSSioN]

Originally posted by sideus:
<STRONG>LWD forum is filthy with trash talk. At least we are somewhat more mature,

[ 04-24-2002: Message edited by: sideus ]</STRONG>

You obviously failed to read thru all the other sections of our forum. Seems to me you only read the taunting thread. The idea of a taunt is all about trash talk. Take another moment and read some of our extensive hardware reviews. Also, check out the responses to the many hardware, software, Linux, and overcooling questions that we've answered and you'll see that we are all pretty intelligent and willing to help anyone. We have a general conversation thread where we pretty much "dig in the yard" and rant and rave. Oh....but you should know that since you have one here. Some of MacNN members have registered at LWD and contributed to the trash talk and even asked and/or responded to posts in other threads. At least when I registered here I took the time to judge MacNN
but reading threads dating back to christmas (even asked some of my own questions). I have nothing against all of you personally. As for the filth, this is nothing more than pure fun (obviously for only some of us). When the time comes that the taunting is over, I would hope that I would still be welcome into your community (as I'm not as one minded as you) to continue to learn alittle more from the other side of the fence. As always YOU and other members are more than welcome to continue digging in our yard by adding your part of computing knowledge. In the long run we will all learn from each other and make friends along the way.

Originally posted by sideus:
<STRONG>LWD forum is filthy with trash talk. At least we are somewhat more mature,

[ 04-24-2002: Message edited by: sideus ]</STRONG>

If by mature you mean slow then yeah you are mature. Its fun, after all its for free. Enjoy the view in 8 days

WOOF

[SkiBikeSki]

In the past two years I've never seen anything like what I saw on LWD. I'm sure there are plenty of other good topics, but where were the moderators on that one. It's one thing to say you're going to pass another team soon, or to say that you're faster/better then them. But it's another thing entirely to speak so derogatorily of another team.

[sideus]

"(as I'm not as one minded as you)"

Aww, had to break out the personal attacks, eh?

[ 04-25-2002: Message edited by: sideus ]

[reader50]

Let's keep it within reason, people. "Locker Room" meant just the venue for posting the quotes, which were put up as fun recruiting material, nothing more.

Edit: I also picked the thread name because it sounded unlikely. That way, our own people might find it before our guests did.

[ 04-25-2002: Message edited by: reader50 ]

[lwd_iceman]

Originally posted by sideus:
<STRONG>"(as I'm not as one minded as you)"

Aww, had to break out the personal attacks, eh?

&lt; removed quoted objectionable quote &gt;</STRONG>

Nice cut and paste... something original would expected, mainly based on the users of the GUI that is the parent of the platform that 90 percent of us use in the graphical context. Although I must hand it to Apple that by offering access to the shell, it does expose the 20 year history behind the most recent MacOS to date...

Lessons for beginning SysAdmins... might be handy for you Mac OS X folks...

rm -rf is your friend, and replacing directories with files is a "bad thing", esp with server daemons...

LWD&gt; ps -x

PID TTY STAT TIME COMMAND
666 ? S 0:00 seti@teammacnn

LWD&gt; kill -9 666

lwd_iceman

[ 04-25-2002: Message edited by: reader50 ]

[wheeles]

Originally posted by lwd_iceman:
<STRONG>

Nice cut and paste... something original would expected, mainly based on the users of the GUI that is the parent of the platform that 90 percent of us use in the graphical context. Although I must hand it to Apple that by offering access to the shell, it does expose the 20 year history behind the most recent MacOS to date...

Lessons for beginning SysAdmins... might be handy for you Mac OS X folks...

rm -rf is your friend, and replacing directories with files is a "bad thing", esp with server daemons...

LWD&gt; ps -x

PID TTY STAT TIME COMMAND
666 ? S 0:00 seti@teammacnn

LWD&gt; kill -9 666

lwd_iceman
</STRONG>

Iceman, you sound a little irritated. Too many fleas?

A thing to note - not all OS X users come from a long Mac background. Quite a few have long UNIX history. Personally I came to the Mac because of my experiences with NeXT.

I can't say that I totally follow your reference to "replacing directories with files". Are you talking about packages? If you look more closely packages do have files inside them. Much like directories.

[lwd_iceman]

Originally posted by wheeles:
<STRONG>
I can't say that I totally follow your reference to "replacing directories with files". Are you talking about packages? If you look more closely packages do have files inside them. Much like directories.</STRONG>

wasn't working with packages, was working directly with files and paths...

Has to do with rather bone-headed thing I did a couple of years back... had a tarball, did the extract, ran ./configure... this was to update my old popper for eudora on the lan clients....

Had the make file ready, ran make, and compiled... now i have the qpopper binary sitting in /root/qpopper214/qpopper

phone rings... it's a friend - needs to chat about some things... I'm in a hurry to get the server updated, so pop open a new terminal window, check /etc/services and update /etc/inetd.conf, then go to copy qpopper over to /usr/sbin

cd /usr/sbin

mv in.qpopper qpopper.old

in the other shell window

cp /root/qpopper214/qpopper /usr/sbin

Realized what I had done right away...

ls /usr/sbin



"Jason, gots to go..." click and hang up the phone...

shows a file, not a directory... I had basically wiped out everything in the directory and replaced it with qpopper named as sbin. syslogd starts complaining loudly about all sorts of errors...

I was able to dig my way out of it, but as root, you can do just about anything you want to do, include shooting oneself squarely in the foot...

lwd_iceman

[wheeles]

Now I get ya. Being root is a double-edged sword. I learnt the 'back everything up regularly' lesson the hard way.

Well You all we're fun to play with, but its time for LWD to move on. Parting is such sweet sorrow and time is short. Thanks for the fun for its hot apple pie and a scoop of ice cream for the doggies tonight.

WOOF ^2

[JAmZ SeSSioN]

I just wanted to take a moment and thank you all for going along with the taunts. Very fun. And I even learned alittle about Mac's (not to be confused with MAC's ). You've been our best stomp.

[Grozni Majmun]

Take care. You taunt mighty well. Y'all sound like it's over, but I thought we had a few days left to fight....?

Oh well, I guess I can get off SETI and back to dFold. Hope to see you guys over there once you have found your aliens!

To those who visited the LWD forums and found them childish and offensive: dudes, check out our lounge, it can get nasty & childish. I like it better this way, though. I mean having the separate forums.

Originally posted by JAmZ SeSSioN:
<STRONG>You've been our best stomp. </STRONG>

It's been a pleasure & an honor, Sir! Woof! Or whatever they say over there...

[reader50]

Originally posted by Grozni Majmun:
<STRONG>... Y'all sound like it's over, but I thought we had a few days left to fight....?
...</STRONG>

They have indeed passed. It happened because of a 20K joiner. The ranks have not been uploaded yet because I'm working on our missing news. News and milestones are usually posted Wednesday, but I was tied up this week. Stay tuned.

Yeah the 20k joiner suprised me too.

It should have been a few days later than today, but hey its been really fun.

Comp is fun and all and its been a real blast. Seen by the back yard.

[enola]

Originally posted by Grozni Majmun:
<STRONG>Oh well, I guess I can get off SETI and back to dFold.</STRONG>

Yes, please, we miss you.