[discotronic]

My brother has a B&W G3 and is thinking about either upgrading the processor and video card or just going ahead and getting a new 17" iMac. Here are the specs of his machine:

300MHz (OC'ed to 400MHz and running stable for months)
768MB RAM
stock 16MB video
40GB HD (fairly new)
Combo drive

He knows that if he upgrades it will be with a PowerLogix PowerForce G3/1GHz processor and a Radeon 9200 128MB video card. Both upgrades will cost him around $400. This isn't a big deal because he doesn't have anything invested since the B&W was a gift from me. Also, he doesn't want an eMac and really can't afford a PowerMac.

He doesn't mind the way his system performs right now but he would like to be able to play some recent games. Other than that the only thing he does is surf the net and office program type tasks. Here are some he was thinking about:

Battlefield 1942
NeverWinter Nights
Baldur's Gate II
Call of Duty
Homeworld 2
Aliens vs Predator 2
Both Jedi Knight games
Medal of Honor
Tron 2.0
Warcraft 3

Most of these games have system requirements for a G4. Will the games even start up on a G3? If so, in regards to the more system hungry games, will any of these games be playable even at low settings? He isn't looking for a primary gaming machine and doesn't expect the upgrade to make his B&W one.

Any advice would be helpful. $400 for upgrades vs. at least $1300 for an iMac is a huge difference.

[Lateralus]

I came from a 1.1GHz B&W G3 with 768MBs of RAM and a Radeon 9200 128MB. It played everything I threw at it perfectly.

I wouldn't pay a whole lot of attention to the G4 requirements listed on most game boxes, since the only real difference between the G3 and G4 is AltiVec, which practically no games are optimized for.

[bowwowman]

Tell him to go for it, and bump the ram to 1GB while he is at it, especially if he wants to run OSX

[discotronic]

Well, since the mini came out my brother is wondering should he get one or just go ahead and do the upgrades. I think the upgrades would be the best route. What do you guys think?

Also, has anyone overclocked the PowerLogix processor upgrades? Would I be able to overclock the 1.1GHz to 1.2GHz and keep it stable? Anyone think the price might come down anytime soon? Do you think PowerLogix will have another speed bumb on the G3's? Thanks for any information.

[Rowen7]

As I said before in another topic:

Right now we're caught at an awkward time to upgrade.

A 1.42 Ghz G4 is about $600 with the introduction of the mac mini. A 1.25 is only $500.

And the processors in our old computers may have the distinct ability for upgrade, but lets face it: If you own a G3 B&W the powerlogix 1.0Ghz or OWC 600mhz G4 upgrade is half of what that mac is. Then you have to consider SATA, Video card (Radeon 9200 PCI Mac is $120), and more... you're still stuck with lower bus, older hardware, and an erection the size of a battering ram for the new toys.

This is not a speech to say, "Don't Upgrade!" But rather one to say, wait, and take inventory of what you need for your purposes.
B&W, $120, 1Ghz ram; $120, Radeon 9200; $200+, Best Processor.
As you can see its nearly the price of a new mac mini.

As for the Powermac G4 series, is it worth the upgrade, probably. But right now would be an awkward time as we wait for the companies and prices to respond to the introduction of new and better equipment.

My suggestion would be wait atleast a month, what i intend to do. You'll notice the industry shock whether better or worse.

[MORT A POTTY]

meh, go for it. if you need the PCI slots.

if not, the Mac mini is about the same cost and it has the same Radeon 9200 and combo drive... but a faster G4 processor and system bus.

I'd say mac mini.

[Rowen7]

B&W Pros:
You can fit many hard drives into it.
You have extra PCI slots
- USB 2.0
- Controller for ATA/133
- Radeon 9200 (128MB of memory)
- Airport
You can put in a Superdrive
- Pioneer DVR-108 16x
You can upgrade the internal zip?
- 750MB Zip Drive
- I still need to test this!
Paintable and Stylish
- Under $20 and a new style

MacMini Pros:
New Mac, Cheap.
Limited upgradability.
Faster Processor
Faster Bus Speed
Airport and Blutooth option
Smaller, compact

[sine -''-..-]

One more Pro for the Mac Mini: You'd have a B&W and a Mac Mini.

[Rowen7]

hmm, quite true... then you could try an apple seed project and have the B&W steal processing time and stuff from the macmini... quite evil.

[discotronic]

I think the decision has been made. He decided to keep the B&W and just upgrade it. The money he will actually save vs the mini is a fair bit.

With the mini:

$500 for the mini
$160 for 1GB RAM ( I would install it for him)
$140 for an external firewire 160GB hard drive

Total: $800 plus tax

With his B&W

$260 for the 1GHz PowerLogix processor (should be able to over-clock to 1.1GHz
$125 for the Radeon 9200 128MB video card
$25 for extra 256MB RAM (take it to a total of 1GB RAM)
$90 for 200GB 7200RPM hard drive

Total: $500

For my brother this will be more than enough for his needs for the next couple years. If he wants to add a Superdrive he will be able to get a dual layer recorder for under a $100 later. He figures that if he where to spend $800 on the mini he would rather save his money up for a PowerMac. I can't say I blame him for that.

If you guys have any more suggestion feel free to post them

[MORT A POTTY]

the 200GB won't be recognized unless you have a PCI ATA controller (or SATA) it will simply show 128GB

[discotronic]

Originally posted by MORT A POTTY:
the 200GB won't be recognized unless you have a PCI ATA controller (or SATA) it will simply show 128GB

Got that covered alreadly. A friend hooked me up with one. Thanks for the advice though.

[Rowen7]

The black Pioneer DVR-108 was $77 when I got it from newegg.com, also I chose to install a case fan like Mort did. That was $6 and came with a cool sticker... that I still haven't a clue what to do with.

What ram are you gettings? Crucial pc133, cl2? or just generic, for $25?

And I would say with a small bit (of course sometimes small bits can be extended far) for the prices to drop as I have seen the Mercury 500mhz G4already frop $20 for the B&W. Btw, Powerlogix, is forced to compete with gigadesigns and sonnet which means they'll be lowering and coming out with new things soon. Besides their conspiricy lawsuit against them. If you haven't noticed Powerlogix's main store is OWC's for they have joined forces in a legion of doom.

I still need a better controller for mine, but I think my next upgrade might be the new imac if the prices are right... but I want to take a trip to new zealand soon; i will have to wait.

This is actually the thread that lead me into purchasing my mac B&W. So, let me know how it goes.

[JRSTRONG]

I had a B&W OWC G4/550/768mb/100gig/'flashed' PC ATI 64mb vram on a 1992 Apple 16" usably running 10.2.8. I had VPC 6.1 running WinXP before I got a cheap HP and then a cheaper Dell.... The G4 provides the 'horsepower' for VPC AND many Mac apps at tjee the x86's depend on the speed, but are easily bogged downed when operating many programs at once? sidenote: the HP 1.7ghz AMD was not that much faster than VPC/XP (G4/550) and a Pentium 2.8ghz was not that much faster than the 1.7 AMD?

Jeff

[Rowen7]

I just got a G4 600mhz off ebay for $124... much better than the $250 list price.

Although i see things substantially faster (stating I am still on the old graphics card) I believe reinstalling Panther would work out much better. Correct me if I am wrong.

In the world of computers relativity is key. a Ghz difference may not mean much to games that don't need anymore than 1.2ghz. While a 133mhz to a 233mhz was phenominal back in the day.

Of course I have no answer for why they seemed the same. Some would argue the AMD vs. Intel, in my regards of computer a G4/G5 beats them all because the processors are just made right. Good amount of cache, they now increased the bus speed, among other things.

To me, this G4 600mhz kicks my 1.3 Duron in the shins.