[lothar56]

I recently got a G3 266 MT that I'm looking to run 10.2 on. I've done some searching around the forums and google and I'm still not quite clear on my options. I've already bid on some RAM, cause that's the most obvious upgrade, but now I'm thinking about the processor.

From XLR8's website, it appears that I can go from

Bus PCI Processor
66MHz 33MHz 266MHz
to
83MHz 33MHz 333MHz

by simply removing a couple jumpers, as the 266 is xSxSSSSxx and the 333 is xSxSxSxxx
So how safe/reliable would this change be? Is it ok just to try it and then if it crashes switch it back? Would a different bus speed be better? Would installing a fan on the heatsink be a good pretty much necessary?

Or I've found I can buy Zif cards on ebay for relatively cheap, aka 500 MHz for ~$40. Would it be a better idea to do this instead? I'd like to spend as little money as possible here, but I'm not against dropping a couple bucks for more reliability.

[edit] Or would it do me any good to buy a G3 350 ZIF from eBay for like $15 and then OC that to like 450?

[yukon]

Try the overclock, if it doesn't work then go back, maybe add a fan or replace with a more powerful fan if it works. the CPU upgrade will make a big difference, spend what you can on that then save up for a more upgradable machine, your bus speed is going to be limiting and the machine would need multiple replacements (optical drive, ethernet card, SATA card, etc) to bring it up to standard. Since you don't list RAM, HD, etc, I'll assume you have that figured out, can't compare prices without that.

[Grrr]

I upgraded my old Beige G3 266MT quite a bit, although I don't use it now.
I'd not bother with an upgraded G3 cpu, instead get a G4 zif, they are very cheap now and makes a huge difference to performance.
Also, I overclocked the bus to 83mhz. Makes a reasonable difference to performance, and importantly, has been completely stable. If you have stability issues after the bus overclock, its likely to be because your ram isn't up to the job.
However, My particular beige G3 absolutely refuses to take OS X (Tried Xpostfacto with 10.2 and 10.3, no go) I tried all the recomeneded tips, and it just doesnt work. Only thing I have not tried yet, is changing the stock optical drive, as apparently some just dont like OS X for whatever reason. So maybe its that. Also, Mines a rev a, so has a ram ceiling of only 384mb, but for now it just has 256mb in it.
Anyway, good luck.

[powertrippin]

I think I'd ditch it and get an original iMac.

[discotronic]

I've overclocked a few of the old beige models. The highest I could get them to run without issues was 315MHz. Anything higher than that and the system would not boot up.

[lothar56]

Okay thanks. My main intention for this is to make it a stable server. Right now it's got 160 megs of RAM and I'm just gonna throw in a 256 chip to make it 416. Ha! After looking at the back, it turns out this computer's 7 year birthday is tomorrow! Wait, I just read that the comps shipped after May 1st, 1998 don't have the RAM ceiling. So mine would then? By a friggin week? The HD is the stock 6 gig, so I won't have to worry about the 8 gig OS X boot disk limit. And if it does turn out that the HD doesn't like OS X, I can just hop over to eBay and fix that quick. One thing I wondered about Overclocking. The instructions say to "set the jumpers." I see the jumper block, but I don't understand what exactly I need to do to "unset" a couple of them.

[discotronic]

You might be able to upgrade the RAM to where you want. It is always worth a shot.

The jumper block can be used for the overclocking or you can use jumpers from old hard drives. The hard drive jumpers are bigger and fit really tight. They will still work but be careful not to bend the pins on the motherboard too much.

As for the jumper block being used there is a trick to it. On most of the blocks that I have seen there are 2 holes on the top of the block. The partition between the holes is really thin. You can take a small flat screwdriver and poke the small piece of copper out of the bottom. You might have to use the handle of a screwdriver to gently pound on it. Have a pair of needle nose pliers handy to pull the copper piece all the way out. It is very thin so be careful not to bend it out of shape. Replace the copper pieces into the slots that are required for the amount that you want to overclock the machine. Be sure to note the correct way that the jumper block goes back on before starting.

Some of the jumper blocks don't have the holes so you would actually have to use hard drive jumpers. If you can find the correct size jumpers you would be even better off.

I hope that made sense. If it doesn't or you have any questions post back and I will try to clarify everything.

[lothar56]

Okay, I completely see what you mean after checking it out. I'm getting a "care package" from home tomorrow (one of my old monitors, a keyboards, 10.2, etc) so I'll check everything out then. I'm also looking at getting a fan for the heat sink, where exactly would I power that. I heard it's possible to daisy-chain a couple fans together, but the only other fan i can find is inside the power supply. Any suggestions?

[yukon]

"Daisy-chain"? Multiple fans in series is a bad idea, no more air but it multiplies the noise, have them output air seperatly or just use one more powerful fan. If you've never used jumpers, maybe I was wrong in suggesting you try the overclock, study hardware a bit more first.

[lothar56]

Sorry, I meant in parallel, but I've seen some fans come with adaptors to hook up to a spare HD power plug, which would work, the only problem is the fan i thought might work from radioshack cost $13 and I could get a Rage 128 Pro 16MB off eBay for $15-20. I'll check eBay for fans. I see the jumper things and understand that, and everyone's got to start somewhere right? Where better than a computer like this?
And just to clarify, I have a 1.33 GHz iBook as my normal computer and the G3 is just a fun project to mess around with and try some cool stuff.

So where exactly could I find a good power source for the fan outside of one of the HD power adaptors?

[lothar56]

I was also thinking about dropping in a Rage 128 Pro, but to do that I'd have to get another monitor becasue all I have right now are a couple Apple monitors from ~95. Although I could probably get an ok monitor from the same place I got the computer for about $5, hm...this is actually really fun. I plan on making a web page outlining the whole upgrading process including success and defeats (hopefully more of the former than the latter) and end up hosting it on the computer itself, maybe along with an internet radio station for fun. I really love having the nearly unlimited bandwidth of a State University to play around with.

[lothar56]

Okay, another question. If I was to nab a 350MHz Zif upgrade and I wanted to install it, would i have to apply any type of thermal paste between the processor and the heat sink? And then once I installed the processor, would I simply reset the jumpers to that particular MHz? I think this option would be the most stable, plus the 1 MB of L2 Cache is appealing.

[Partisan01]

You mentioned using 10.2 on there. I don't know how fast you'll be able to get the machine, but I had 10.2 running on a B&W 350 for a bit. While not a painful experience it was not as fast as I would have enjoyed. It is now a server, much like your goal, except I went the opensource route and used OpenBSD as my OS. I also played with OpenDarwin a while, and it's nice, but requires more effort than I would like to do. OpenBSD is unix just like Darwin, and is very similar, it also runs great on older hardware. I'm not sure if it's supported on the beige box, you might want to try out NetBSD at http://netbsd.org. Best of luck, sounds like a fun project.

[lothar56]

Thanks! I'll keep that in mind! Now I've found a 3 gram tube of thermal paste on ebay for like $4 including shipping...I'm assuming this would help the heat transfer between the processor and the heat sink if I was to install a new ZIF. And how would I figure out whether or not I have the RAM ceiling. Would I just install more than 384 megs and see if it recognizes it, or is there a better way to check?

[lothar56]

Progress!
I got my pack of goodies, so I've made a little progress.

•It turns out my OS 9 disc was not in that pack of goodies, so I have a temporary copy on there for now, it runs fine but I don't have any network capabilities for the time being, I'll get that later this afternoon

•I tried starting up from the X.2 installation disc (the actual disc from apple). The Apple logo came up, the spinny thing appeared at the bottom, then when the screen with the progress bar would normally come up, the screen flashed once and went black. I tried this several times and the same thing happened. Now when I start it up in 9.2, the screen initially flashed white like it would start up in X, goes black, then comes up gray like the normal 9 screen.

•It no longer wants to read CD's. Although it was fine before starting up from X, now it spins the CD, then won't read it. I'm not sure if this is because of X or because the drive just needs a good cleaning. It will, however, read a CD if it is in at startup, but not a burned CD that I tried earlier, probably because it's a cheap off-brand CD.

•I sucessfully overclocked it to 300MHz and it ran fine for a while, I will try to do some benchmarking to find the ideal processor/bus speed but I'll have to somehow get that software on it without the CD drive or the network...

•I talked to the local MUG president and he suggested I toss this HD in my friend's G4 tower and install X on it there, then put it back in the G3. Sound like a good idea?

[lothar56]

Update:
•I did a clean install of 9.2.1 and everything started working fine
•OS X is currently installing from the CD's
•I will post some benchmarks later when I do some more overclock testing
•My friend is looking at a new graphics card for his G4, and has offered me his is Rage 128 Pro for cheaper than eBay

[lothar56]

Next update:
•OS X.2 on and running great, it took me a while to realize that when I'm installing from the second disc, the monitor is sleeping, the computer is not freezing
•I did some benchmarks comparing OS 9 to OS X, and will do another after installing all the updates (this is taking freakin forever, i HATE optimizing!)
•Overclocking will soon commence!

One question:
I think this fan should fit great. eBay. My question is whether paying the extra $1.99 for the power adapter is worth it, or if I would be able to wire it in easily. (I have knowledge in wiring stuff, but I don't have a soldering iron with me.) Thoughts?

[lothar56]

Okay, after a whole bunch of testing, it's now running at 315 MHz and 67 MHz bus. I think the 300/75 config was faster overall though. And it ran solid at 333, but wouldn't boot at all when set to anything higher.

[lothar56]

Okay, I have a fan that might work now, but I was thinking of tapping into the power for the LED "on" indicator light, as that would be a very easy place to get power. Surely someone would have some sort of opinion on this!!

[jasong]

Just to chime in. I have a Beige G3 that I have done similar things to.

At first I oveclocked it from 233 to 300 with no stability issues. I was unable to get the motherboard to overclock without seriously compromising stability though. I then swapped the processor with a G4/400, raised the memory to 224 MB, upgraded the internal drive to a 20 GB (which necessitated partitioning the drive), added a Firewire/USB card which has 4 160 GB firewire drives daisy chained off of it, and added a no-name 100 Mb network card.

Using XPostFacto I am running 10.3.8 with no stability issues. I am using it to back up my Powerbook, Tablet, and fiancee's computer; store and serve TV programs downloaded off of my ReplayTV/Comcast DVR; store all of my CD's which I have ripped in Apple Lossless and serve them out using iTunes sharing; share my printer; serve web pages (running Webmin); and every so often I play with the idea of using it for mail. It does all of this admirably, although the rare times I sit down at the keyboard and use it to browse the web or whatever it is pretty damn slow.

I'd give it all up for a Mac Mini, but my student loans say no

[lothar56]

That's pretty cool!

So as of now, I found a nice little Pentium fan from a friend that fits right on the heatsink and plugs right into the hard drive power cable. I also made my first purchase, a VRAM chip for $7 shipped. I figure that will help a bunch with the video input/resolutions/capture speed. Next up is real RAM, then possibly a ZIF. Does anyone know if another hard drive would be quieter? Because this one is quite loud when it spins up. I'm thinking a 350-400 ZIF overclocked to 50 MHz more would be quite fun. So does anyone have any good answers?

[lothar56]

Okay, for anyone who's still listening out there, I managed to secure that fan in there and she's been running at 333/83 for almost two hours now, constantly looping a ~40 meg quicktime video at full screen. Man, I can't wait for the VRAM.

[lothar56]

Newest update:
•Installed Pentium fan on heatsink, it now runs 333MHz solidly, I've had it going for 5+ hours at a time.
•Bought (in progress) a 400MHz ZIF from a fellow MacNNer, will overclock that to at least 450.
•Still in the market for RAM, I'm looking around here and on eBay, if you know of any that would work, hit me up. OS X with 160MB is NOT fun

•Web page outlining upgrading process is in the works, but not a whole lot of sense in doing in, cause next week is finals week, then it's back home to no internet