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Oconee Dave · Sep 12, 2001, 02:30 PM

I have a iMac 350 (summer 2000) with no firewire. I was wandering if anyone knew if you can add a second hard drive either internally or externally. I am looking to do so for speed and storage. I already have a zip so that is of no concern. I was just not sure if this could be done since I do not have firewire. Thanks for your help.

OldManMac · Sep 12, 2001, 03:38 PM

You can add a second hard drive, but only externally, and it would have to be a USB drive. Maxtor, for one, makes a 40Gb drive, which would address your storage needs. Unfortunately, there is no way to address your speed issue, as USB is a very slow connection. The Maxtor drive is USB 2.0 compliant, but it would only work at the slower USB 1.1 speed, because there is no way to convert your iMac to the USB 2.0 spec. The best solution would be to replace your original drive with a bigger one; IBM makes a real nice 60GB, 7200RPM drive, the DeskStar, which you could get for around $200-$250. You can also get Maxtor 40Gb drives for around $150.

qnxde · Sep 15, 2001, 10:08 AM

Or, if you wanted to do a big hack job, you could connect another IDE drive to the same chain the internal drive is on and somehow run the ribbon cable out externally. This, is assuming the iMac has 2 buses, as the CD-ROM drive and the first HD would already be taking up one.

golem · Sep 15, 2001, 11:44 AM

I am going to try this with my bondi. The only thing that I am not sure about is configuring the "Master/Slave" jumper what ever that is.

[ 09-15-2001: Message edited by: golem ]

vmarks · Sep 15, 2001, 10:32 PM

There's no extra room in the iMac case for an extra drive. That's not the end of the story.

There are two IDE channels, known as primary and secondary.

The hard drive is on the primary channel, and the cd-rom is on the secondary channel.

Each channel can have two drives, known as master and slave.
These channels can be set using jumpers on the drives themselves, or the computer can determine it, by setting the drives to Cable Select (CS). CS requires a nice ATA/33 cable which is more expensive, and I'm unsure that the iMac would know how to use CS- but my G4/400 does. I'll have to try it on my iMac revision B.

You can only have two drives per channel, one master, one slave.
You cannot use the CD-ROM channel, because the cd-rom comes from a laptop and has a 50 pin connector. The standard IDE cable uses 40 pins. (The cdrom has extra for power and master slave settings)

To add the other drive, get a long IDE cable, and jumper your original drive as Master, and the new drive as Slave. Put the drives on the cable. Get a power extender that is a Y-cable- that is, one power connector into two, so that you can power both hard drives.

I have not tested this, but this is houw it would be done. I have the iMacs, and I'll test it eventually, but as for now, I'm busy hacking on the power supply conversion to ATX, and placing the iMac in cases of my own making.

Email me if you want more information, or want help going forward with this.

Victor Marks
lvmarks@mac.com

shmerek · Sep 15, 2001, 11:17 PM

Originally posted by vmarks:
These channels can be set using jumpers on the drives themselves, or the computer can determine it, by setting the drives to Cable Select (CS). CS requires a nice ATA/33 cable which is more expensive, and I'm unsure that the iMac would know how to use CS- but my G4/400 does. I'll have to try it on my iMac revision B.

To add the other drive, get a long IDE cable, and jumper your original drive as Master, and the new drive as Slave. Put the drives on the cable. Get a power extender that is a Y-cable- that is, one power connector into two, so that you can power both hard drives.
Victor Marks
lvmarks@mac.com[/QB]

I haven't cracked my mac open yet but when I do will it be obvious as to how to set "jumper" so that the internal drive is the master?

vmarks · Sep 17, 2001, 01:20 AM

Originally posted by shmerek:


I haven't cracked my mac open yet but when I do will it be obvious as to how to set "jumper" so that the internal drive is the master?

Sort of. Yes and no. Maybe.

The jumper settings are typically printed on the top of the hard drive. Sometimes they aren't, or they aren't clear. Worse, each drive is different. If there's any standard, it's that in a drive with six pins for setting master, slave, and cable select, that it will be like this:

135
246
MCS
ASL

read that vertically: pins 1 and 2 are jumpered, the drive is Master.

On a drive that lacks the label telling you how to jumper it, go to the manufacturer's website - I used to have to download settings from manufacturers all the time when the sticker was missing on older drives.

Victor Marks
lvmarks@mac.com

shmerek · Sep 17, 2001, 05:53 PM

This is a continuation of my jumper question. I ordered my hard drive case today and I am going to use my old quantum hard drive to make sure it works and then later I might get a bigger external drive.. anyways the question I have is this: From this image would you say that the CS or PK is the slave configuration?

this.

I am thinking it is the PK (or maybe CS) ... I think I need a second opinion.
thanks
Shmerek

[ 09-17-2001: Message edited by: shmerek ]

SpeedRacer · Sep 18, 2001, 02:03 PM

Has anyone attempted to merely utilize two 2.5" laptop drives inside the iMac in place of the single 3.5" drive? Granted it's not exactly cost-effective, but it does give you 2 internal drives.

This would appear the most logical choice for someone looking to add a 2nd drive to a 2nd gen iMac w/out Firewire. The 1st gen iMacs had the ability to utilize the 3rd party SCSI card via mezzanine.

IMO if i had an iMac/350 i would just snag large IDE drive (80GB+) and create 2-3 partitions. Or are they are other concerns at play here?

Speed

rok · Sep 21, 2001, 06:58 PM

seriously, just remove your old hard drive, and replace it with a huge 40 GB 5400 RPM drive like I did in my iMac DV SE 400. it was really easy, as long as you are okay with temporarily removing everything off the bottom of the iMac. what i want to find is a way to INSTALL A FAN in the iMac. that way, i can install a 7200 RPM drive, which would really fly. ;-) there really isn't enough room in the iMac for 2 2.5" drives, and the added cost for thos edrives (their the laptop variety) far exceed their usefulness in this case.

the speed hit, and cost of external case far outweigh the use of an external case for your old drive if it has to be usb (mind you, i just picked up a refurbished lacie usb external case for $10 from a local tech surplus store, so, at that cost, it was definitely worth it). but buying a case brand new, even usb, is pretty pricey. if you REALLY want to buy n external case, check out the firewire/usb combo enclosures from http://www.fwdepot.com. yeah, you may not use the firewire today, but you're ready when you eventually upgrade your machine.

just remember that if you plan to install os x on your machine, it must be installed within the first 8 GB of the disk - don't ask me, it's a weird unix thing.

anyway, there ya go.

shmerek · Sep 21, 2001, 10:37 PM

I already replaced the internal drive and I have extra hard drive so I thought I would go with the dual IDE solution. I bought a external case for 16 bucks (hasn't arrived yet though) and the cables are cheap too. I want a Frankenmac

vmarks · Sep 21, 2001, 10:46 PM

Originally posted by shmerek:
This is a continuation of my jumper question. I ordered my hard drive case today and I am going to use my old quantum hard drive to make sure it works and then later I might get a bigger external drive.. anyways the question I have is this: From this image would you say that the CS or PK is the slave configuration?

this.

I am thinking it is the PK (or maybe CS) ... I think I need a second opinion.
thanks
Shmerek

[ 09-17-2001: Message edited by: shmerek ]

Normally (key word here)

CS is cable select, DS would be master and PK would be slave.

Obviously that may not be the case here. Please try and see if there isn't a model number on that Quantum to get better specs from Their website...

Victor Marks
lvmarks@mac.com

vmarks · Sep 21, 2001, 10:49 PM

Originally posted by SpeedRacer:
Has anyone attempted to merely utilize two 2.5" laptop drives inside the iMac in place of the single 3.5" drive? Granted it's not exactly cost-effective, but it does give you 2 internal drives.

This would appear the most logical choice for someone looking to add a 2nd drive to a 2nd gen iMac w/out Firewire. The 1st gen iMacs had the ability to utilize the 3rd party SCSI card via mezzanine.

IMO if i had an iMac/350 i would just snag large IDE drive (80GB+) and create 2-3 partitions. Or are they are other concerns at play here?

Speed

You could do the two laptop drive deal, but you'd have to use 2.5" to 3.5" adapters and jumper the small drives properly. It'd work, and it'd work in the same space internally, but laptop drives are more expensive than desktop drives. I have a few 4.3 gb laptop drives and will likely end up doing this, except that I need the 2.5" to 3.5" adapters for accessing data in emergencies.

Victor Marks
lvmarks@mac.com

vmarks · Sep 21, 2001, 10:54 PM

Originally posted by rok:
seriously, just remove your old hard drive, and replace it with a huge 40 GB 5400 RPM drive like I did in my iMac DV SE 400. it was really easy, as long as you are okay with temporarily removing everything off the bottom of the iMac. what i want to find is a way to INSTALL A FAN in the iMac. that way, i can install a 7200 RPM drive, which would really fly. ;-) there really isn't enough room in the iMac for 2 2.5" drives, and the added cost for thos edrives (their the laptop variety) far exceed their usefulness in this case.

the speed hit, and cost of external case far outweigh the use of an external case for your old drive if it has to be usb (mind you, i just picked up a refurbished lacie usb external case for $10 from a local tech surplus store, so, at that cost, it was definitely worth it). but buying a case brand new, even usb, is pretty pricey. if you REALLY want to buy n external case, check out the firewire/usb combo enclosures from http://www.fwdepot.com. yeah, you may not use the firewire today, but you're ready when you eventually upgrade your machine.

just remember that if you plan to install os x on your machine, it must be installed within the first 8 GB of the disk - don't ask me, it's a weird unix thing.

anyway, there ya go.

First off, the first 8gb bit isn't about UNIX, it's about the firmware of the older iMacs.

Secondly, this thread is about modifying the iMac with a second IDE drive, running at internal speeds instead of the slower USB or firewire transfer.

There is enough room inside for two 2.5" drives, I've put them inside, they fit. You're right, it isn't cost effective unless you already own the drives.

It is cost effective to put a second IDE drive externally in a case tho. It costs about $20 more than the cost of the drive.

There are big advantages to keeping your OS and applications on one drive and data on a second- read/write times in movie editing are far faster.

Victor Marks
lvmarks@mac.com

knifecarrier · Sep 25, 2001, 11:50 AM

Actually... I think it WOULD be possible to hook up two HDs in a 1st gen imac. See,... there a LOT of space next to the monitor, on the left hand side. If you mounted it vertically, ....eh.. and fabricated some WEIRD mounts, technically I think it could be done. I might try it this winter, I've always been schemeing.

- Ca$h

rok · Sep 30, 2001, 05:02 PM

vmarks, seriously, where the heck did you put those two drives??? for a blow-by-blow review of gutting the imac, check here...
http://www.imac2day.com/installhd.shtml

(it's what i used as a prep guide before i did it.

also, wher did you find a cheap external usb case? i mean, i found mine at the surplus store, like i said, but i checked around, and never found anything cheaper than about $100. is there a website you can refer? i'd be interested...

kbbaucom · Nov 8, 2001, 03:55 AM

The Summer 2000 iMacs only have one IDE channel. You could only get a second internal drive if you replaced the CD-ROM with a hard drive. You'd have to make your own cable to do that.

jimbobkeler · Nov 13, 2001, 11:01 AM

OK if the cdrom is a 50 pinlaptop drive, does that mean it can be replaced with another laptop cdrw drive or a dvd drive perhaps? I know the dvd decoding will be a problem, but can the os be made to recognize the drive? or can it be set up as a slave to the origional?

Peace, love, and hair grease

vmarks · Nov 13, 2001, 06:17 PM

Originally posted by kbbaucom:
The Summer 2000 iMacs only have one IDE channel. You could only get a second internal drive if you replaced the CD-ROM with a hard drive. You'd have to make your own cable to do that.

YIKES, I just reopened my 350mhz machine, and dang if you aren't right, kevin...

yet another reason why earlier iMacs are more flexible for expansion.

Victor Marks
lvmarks@mac.com

jimbobkeler · Nov 13, 2001, 10:28 PM

A-hokay I got the gumption to try the internal/external drive. I got the cable and a y connector for the power leads, and the spare 6G drive that came with the imac before I replaced it with a 20G. Followed the directions as per here 2 drives tips even cobbled together a housing of sorts out of the remains of an old epson printer that bit the bullet (literally). Started up and Lo and Behold! there was an extra drive sitting on the desktop. On the downside, the cdrom which has been a little flakey for a long while went off the deep end. It now will bug you every few seconds (at least it did until I disconnected it) with the message that the disk was unreadable and would I like to eject or initalize? I t asks this every few seconds whether there is a disc in the drive, or even if the drive is open! Also it will not recognize any media burned or origonal.

So the drive thingy works, but be careful of flakey cd drives

Does anyone know if the cd drive is a sign of a hack gone wrong or is it time to look for replacement drives?

vmarks · Nov 15, 2001, 10:05 AM

Did you ever do the updated firmware for your cd-rom drive?

Just wondering.

jimbobkeler · Nov 15, 2001, 03:16 PM

Originally posted by vmarks:
Did you ever do the updated firmware for your cd-rom drive?

Just wondering.

I'm not sure,
I ponied up to the newest incarnation of OS9, and installed itunes 2 and disc burner 1.1 . I checked the apple support site, but the newest firmware updates I could find for the imac are supposed to only work on the 350MHz and above models, not my rev. D .

When the drive was being a pain, system profiler kept seeing it as a DVD rom. Also is it usual to find cables marked rev. A in a much newer case?

vmarks · Nov 15, 2001, 05:21 PM

Originally posted by jimbobkeler:


I'm not sure,
I ponied up to the newest incarnation of OS9, and installed itunes 2 and disc burner 1.1 . I checked the apple support site, but the newest firmware updates I could find for the imac are supposed to only work on the 350MHz and above models, not my rev. D .

When the drive was being a pain, system profiler kept seeing it as a DVD rom. Also is it usual to find cables marked rev. A in a much newer case?

there was an update specifically for the CD-ROM firmware. Can't recall what version number it was called. The latest firmware for your iMac was already installed if you have 9.1 or newer installed.

Victor Marks
lvmarks@mac.com

pinkpuppy · Nov 16, 2001, 07:13 PM

Originally posted by vmarks:


there was an update specifically for the CD-ROM firmware. Can't recall what version number it was called. The latest firmware for your iMac was already installed if you have 9.1 or newer installed.

Victor Marks
lvmarks@mac.com

Hey don't crucify me too badly if this is the wrong spot to ask, but my rev A iMac has a dodgey CD-ROM & from what I have gathered a laptop (as in Ibook) CDRW should fit (physically) in its place. Anyone tried this & what wiring needs changing? How about software to drive it, would what is in Disc Burner be enough? I am using OS9.2.1 & doubt if I would use OS X.1 on this. I have a USB LaCie CDRW, but it is s-l-o-w at burning & I figure this is best 'fix' for right now today. Sure when Sonnet release their Harmoni card with firewire it might be different, but this sounds doable to me, while Sonnet is still a dream.

vmarks · Nov 16, 2001, 07:49 PM

You're in the right spot, but you might have wanted to start a new thread for it.

Some laptop cdrw will work, can't remember if the ibook one is one of them- the key here is, you have to reuse the circuit board on the back of the cdrom drive- and for it to work, the connector for the cd-drive has to be on the same side as it is on the iMac drive-

Professor Plume · Mar 29, 2003, 12:14 PM

Ok, this is a rather useful thread for me. My cat just drowned my iBook(G3 300), so I've gone shopping and found me an iMac(Grape 333) for $349. Of course, I want all my data from my iBook's hard drive, and a second drive really wouldn't hurt, so I'm wondering, what's the best way to add it to the iMac? Internal would be my favorite choice, did Ca$h or anybody else come up with a custom mount for a second HD in there? And is that a model with two channels for the HD?

COmie JOe · Mar 29, 2003, 12:18 PM

The best thing to do is upgrade the LB to a 400 with FW, and yes you can replace the CD-ROM drive with a DVD or CD-RW drive with no problem.

THE MAC GOD · Sep 2, 2003, 01:31 PM

I recently bought a 120gb drive to compliment my 40gb. Put the 120 inside. Got an extra long EIDE cable. Put the jumpers on the 120 as Master. Cut up the EIDE cable in sections of 8 (You can TOTALLY manuvuer the cabling inside much better if you do this)and ran it out the side. Got a power splitter and took the power from the mobo and split it to the master and ran the other out the side. Got another y-splitter to extend the distance (couldn't find just a standard power extension) out the side. Plugged in my 40gb outside my iMac and viola! 160gb of space. I am going to use the 40gb for my ipod when I get the harmoni upgrade. Transfer speeds are great!

Crimson · Sep 2, 2003, 02:57 PM

ok first of all: 350MHz iMac (slot loading) has just one IDE-bus afaik. revisions A to D (tray loaders) had 2 so this hack was possible (been there, done that)