[tobster]

Situation:
2 computers: single G4 500 and dual G4 450
Objective: switch the processor cards only!

Problem:
When switched the now G4 500 (former dual 450) starts up nicely in os 9 which it will only be used in. So everything OK here.

When switched the now G4 450 dual (former single 500) starts up nicely in os 9 and reports 2 450 processors in the system profiler. However, when trying to start up in OS X I get a kernel panic ("we are hanging here" ). This applies to the installed 10.1.2 or the 10.0.3 install cd or the 10.1 install cd.

Any ideas on how to get it to work in os x (where i want the mp support)?

- tobs

[Cipher13]

I've done the same with a dual 500 and my single 400... OS9 worked fine, but I never booted X.

Try this:

At bootup, hold Apple-Option-O-F.

When you get to the prompt, type "reset-all".

Reboot into X once again.

EDIT: Typo.

[ 01-04-2002: Message edited by: Cipher13 ]

[tobster]

"reset all" gives me "error, reset not known"

- tobs

Lemme guess: You took the CPU card (the dual 450) from work to put in your home system right? *hehe*

Did you hit that CUDA button and do a PRAM reset just to make sure it wasn't looking for the single 500?

Lemme guess: You took the CPU card (the dual 450) from work to put in your home system right? *hehe*

Did you hit that CUDA button and do a PRAM reset just to make sure it wasn't looking for the single 500?

[tullamore]

Originally posted by <JoeG4Error>:
<STRONG>Lemme guess: You took the CPU card (the dual 450) from work to put in your home system right? *hehe*
</STRONG>

Hmmm Good IDEA!

[tobster]

JoeG4Error: something like that...

Cipher: I tried "reset-all" which did not do anything but remove the onscreen kernel panic text. Still freezes at start up.

Haven't tried the CUDA button yet... where do I find it inside the computer and what effect does that give?

- tobs

[yukon]

the cuda is a small metal button. its usually next to the pram battery. it resets all motherboard settings (whatever they are). hold it down for a while too with the battery out.

I have an interest in seeing your project work =)

[vmarks]

CUDA controls PRAM and power management settings. To reset it you simply press it once and release. don't press repeatedly, this will corrupt it. don't hold it down for a great length of time.

[tobster]

Originally posted by yukon:
<STRONG>I have an interest in seeing your project work =)</STRONG>

Yeah... I'm guessing there are more out there that would like to see this work I'll press the CUDA later today (gotta go clean the place now, new year's party tonight) and come back to report.

Another question though, might this in anyway have something to do with the fact that the dual is 450 mhz and the single is 500 mhz?

- tobs

[tobster]

CUDA button does not work. Same thing happens, kernel panic right at the startup. OS 9 does work, but only for a short time, freezes a few mins into use.

Maybe the difference in the motherboards is too great? Both are 100 mhz but I can spot a few diffs in there: (all of the following is in the dual 450 motherboard) Digital audio, no internal firewire, new connector for the ADC in the graphics card.

Oh well, if anybody has any other ideas i'm more than willing to try.
Let me know.

- tobs

[yukon]

there was somethingabout Uni-N(orth) chips or something. if it is lower than version3 (i believe), then it cannot accept dual or simply newer daughtercards. try making a report (under file?) in the apple system profiler.

sorry, I completly forgot what it was all about once I figured out my G4 was fine.

[tobster]

it says:

uni-n: 3

dunno what that means... this is on the single computer...

I'm guessing it is that one i have to check... also says:

nanokernel version: 2.27
Nanokernel pool extends: 12
nanokernel scheduled cpus: 1

any help?

[Cipher13]

Backup "Users", format, switch daughterboards, THEN install X and replace the Users folder or whatever you wanna back up.

[tobster]

Originally posted by Cipher13:
<STRONG>Backup "Users", format, switch daughterboards, THEN install X and replace the Users folder or whatever you wanna back up.</STRONG>

It won't start up from the OS X Install CD. Actually, I tried that without formatting first. You saying formatting it will help?

- tobs

[vertigo]

Just curious..., why the switch? I'm all for the experiment, mind you. Just wondering what prompted it.

[Cipher13]

Originally posted by tobster:
<STRONG>

It won't start up from the OS X Install CD. Actually, I tried that without formatting first. You saying formatting it will help?

- tobs</STRONG>

Well, I was reading some tech docs on open firmware/boot sectors on the HD and stuff, and it's just a feeling I got... I don't know, honestly.

Does it boot OS9 fine still?
Perhaps OSX identifies the CPU somehow; I don't know. A fresh install may help...

[tobster]

Originally posted by vertigo:
<STRONG>Just curious..., why the switch? I'm all for the experiment, mind you. Just wondering what prompted it.</STRONG>

The now Dual 450 is being used for os 9 only and will be that way for some 2 more years I think. The single is being used by me in OS X. That is the main interest for switching. Also quite adventurous in this area. I remember fitting a DVD drive in the rev a. imac a long time ago, did that with my old blueberry ibook too. Not very good at this but unfortunately too willing

Originally posted by Cipher13:
<STRONG>Does it boot OS9 fine still?
</STRONG>

Yes, but I get a hard freeze after some time (sometimes 30 secs after startup, sometimes after a few mins of photoshop 7 use).

Originally posted by Cipher13:
<STRONG>Perhaps OSX identifies the CPU somehow; I don't know. A fresh install may help...</STRONG>

Perhaps, but what makes me move away from that thought is the fact that it won't start up from the OS X install cd. I guess I'm gonna have to back up all my stuff then. That will take the rest of the day so hang in there

- tobs

[yukon]

sorry for the delay. yeah, your Uni-N chip is to blame. here is an exerpt from Xlr8YourMac.com, + another which is also a factor for people who would try this swap.

"
OS 9.1 Update Problems: [Update - As noted in the June 22, 2001 news page and in the FAQ, here, Sonnet has issued a warning about their dual G4 "Duet" CPU upgrade regarding a compatibility issue with revision 3 of the Uni-N motherboard chip. [Update - as of Dec. 2001, they noted a rev 7 or higher is required.] (Some machines may have later revs.) For those with problems running OS 9.1 with a swapped in Dual G4 module, I wonder if their Uni-N rev is earlier than revision 7. For how to check this using OS 9.1's Apple System Profiler, see Sonnet's Errata Note. (On 7/16/2001 a reader with a Dual G4 swap and problems in OS 9.1 noted his Uni-N was a rev 3. To check the revision using OS 9.1's Apple System Profiler with the Dual G4 module installed, he said he had to remove the Apple CPU Plugins extension for stability. He said "It is also very stable under 9.0.x (I use 9.0.4) including dual CPU work as long as I use Apple CPU Plugin 2.3 through 2.5. ASP even reports the second processor."
"


"
NOTE: This article was written before the 2001 G4 Towers were released. The 2001 G4s use a 133mhz system bus speed so the CPU modules are set for a Bus/CPU ratio that assumes a 133MHz bus speed. The pre-2001 G4/AGP systems use a 100MHz bus, so the Bus/CPU ratio of a 2001 G4 module (if it works - it may) would be running the CPU 33% below the rated speed. (I.E. Using a Dual G4/533 module in a pre-2001 G4 with 100mhz bus speed would be running the CPUs at 400MHz (assuming the module was pin compatible) instead of 533Mhz, since the module is set for a 4x ratio (4 times 133MHz bus speed = 533MHz CPU speed). Resistors on the CPU module set the bus/cpu ratio.
"

[tobster]

Oh darn it...

I've put up an ad for my G4 already

thx for all the replies, for me this experiment is over i guess.

- tobs

[Sophus]

Originally posted by tobster:
<STRONG>"reset all" gives me "error, reset not known"

- tobs</STRONG>

The command are "reset-all", not "reset all".

[Jansar]

Since I cannot get a 3D card anyway, is it possible to get the necessary processors to turn my Sawtooth 500 Cube to a DP?

[yukon]

half and half jansar. no, your cube isn't "sawtooth", that makes it confusing. you can upgrade with a sonnet duet (sonnet, right?). there was a link on xlr8yourmac i believe. IT WAS NOT SUPPORTED (repeated 5 times in the article). it involves chipping part of the card i believe too. plus, adding a fan to a dual g4 cube isn't a bad idea.

hello, i have the same problem with my single g4 350 mhz
updated to dual g4 500 mhz.
os 9.1 runns ok, with cpu plugin 2.4....... but os x won't boot....

but ....... the public beta of OS X boots, and installs.....

but theres an other problem...... the beta is out of date and refuses to log in...... any ideas of loggin in public beta again...... or to modify the actual os x 10.1.2 with some parts of the public beta ?????

trost.peter@web.de

I have some news on Multiprocessing on a Rev. 3 Uni.North Board !!

The OSX kernerls refuses to boot ( also 10.1.3) but ....

a Linux SMP Kernel ( for example: 2.4.12-SMP) runs well with my rev.3 UniN
Board and a Sonnettech Encore Duet G4/500.
Both CPUs are used in the same way.I am sorry about Apple that the OSX Kernels refuses to boot on my board, so I went on the Linux side.

Its also possible to overclock the 2 CPUs and the RAM ..... described at some
OpenFirmWare Hacks..... so I get about 5 GigaFlops !!!

By By

[rambo47]

One of the rumor sites, I don't remember which, says there should be news in a few weeks about dp-G4 upgrade cards for the Yosemite B&Ws. I would assume they'll be OS X compatable if they're made by some one like Sonnet. Similar cards can't be far behind for other machines as well. Maybe a small ray of hope?