[Bellagio]

Hi,

I've seen Michael Kramer & Jeff Menter's success with installing a Digital Audio 733 processors in the older sawtooth macs (350/400/450) on the xlr8yourmac.com site.

Has anyone else tried this mod? It's not a very complicated mod, and is an attractive option for $400.

Thanks!

[Todd Madson]

URL please - this sounds very interesting since I have an AGP G4 400.

[Vanquish]

yeah i would like it too...

The xlr8yourmac.com BBS is down till monday but here is a link to some photos I took of the mod:

<a href="http://homepage.mac.com/thejeff/PhotoAlbum1.html" target="_blank">http://homepage.mac.com/thejeff/PhotoAlbum1.html</a>

Not the easiest thing in the world to do but it's still working for me.

My bus is running at 133Mhz while Michael's is still at 100Mhz. My 733Mhz card is running at 800Mhz, BTW. (Tried for 866Mhz but dumped into OF.)

I did have some problems after adding a PC Radeon 8500 64MB AGP card flashed to Mac but I added a fan blowing on the motherboard and a fan blowing on the CPU and everything is hunky dory (although my Mac is now almost as loud as my PC.)

I've also added a Western Digital 800JB (80GB "Special Edition" w/8MB cache). This is one FAST hard drive.

If anyone is going to attempt this, please be aware of the risks and all the details that need to be taken care of.

I was getting emails from a guy who was trying this and couldn't get it to work. He went though a couple of CPU cards and we still don't know why it didn't work. Not being there, it's hard to speculate and I have to take his word that every operation was performed flawlessly. One thing he mentioned was that he never applied the G4 firmware update that came out a while ago (I think maybe a year). That may or may not have had anything to do with his lack of success. (I've applied said firmware update to my G4.)

[theJeff]

I forgot that I registered here some time ago. Heh.

[ambush]

where do I buy those 733 cards???

[theJeff]

I got my DA733 card for $399 from megamacs.com but it would appear that they have sold out of these.

allmac.com has the DA733 card for $699. They also have a 733 card for QuickSilver for $399 but that card requires forther modification (you have to add +12V to one of the mounting screws) and the QuickSilver card lacks the 1MB L3 cache. Additionally, you may have to use the QS heatsink which may or may not fit in a Sawtooth chassis. (I'm not terribly knowledgeable on the QuickSilver CPU card.)

Do a search for "g4 processor" on the allmac.com site.

[Bellagio]

Thanks Jeff! You mentioned the magic words for me above!
Although I've done plenty of these hacks before, I couldn't get this one to work. I had a G4/400 that wouldn't boot with the 733/DA board installed. No startup chime, nothing. I review my soldering with a magnifying glass, inspected the IDE port for "accidents" - all turned up perfect. I was beginning to believe I may have statically zapped my new 733 somehow...
Then you mentioned the firmware upgrade. I've been running OSX (w/o OS9) for a long time now, and I remember upgrading my firmware about a year ago. However, I wanted to run GaugePro to get some info on my current G4/400, so I installed OS9 on an empty partition. And I just happened to run OS9 Software Update, which found 4 or 5 things to update - one of which being a firmware update.
My firmware prior to the update was 2.4f1. OS9 Software Update brought me up to firmware 4.2.8f1 now. Now my 733/DA upgrade works beautifully.
I'm running @ 750Mhz, 100Mhz system bus.
1) Now my question is, how much of a difference will running @ 133Mhz bus make? I've got 256M of PC100 and 256M PC133 in there now (the PC100 would have to go).
2) Another strange thing is that GaugePro doesn't give accurate info with the 733/DA installed. It says processor="?", running approx. 300Mhz, with some crazy system bus speed. It's definitely NOT at running 300Mhz, because it's much faster than the 400 I just removed, but GaugePro is reporting it as 300-ish.
3) I ordered my 733/DA from megamacs about 3 weeks ago, so they had them 3 weeks ago... $399 (about $408 with shipping).
4) I have pictures and screenshots of the firmware, etc. that I'll post soon.
Be sure to point out to everyone trying this upgrade that the correct firmware is required (along with the usual hack disclaimers!)

Jon

[Peder Rice]

I'm curious, could the Quicksilver G4 processor be used?

[Todd Madson]

Can someone post the url to the article at xlr8yourmac? I've searched
on their names and DA733 and G4 sawtooth but the specific article is not
to be found.

This would be a really interesting way of prolonging the life of my G4/400.

[Carl Norum]

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Geneva, Verdana, Arial, sans-serif">quote:</font><hr /><font size="1" face="Geneva, Verdana, Arial, sans-serif">Originally posted by Bellagio:
<strong>1) Now my question is, how much of a difference will running @ 133Mhz bus make? I've got 256M of PC100 and 256M PC133 in there now (the PC100 would have to go).</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="1" face="Geneva, Verdana, Arial, sans-serif">It would make a humongous difference - when you speed up the bus, you speed up everything - RAM, disk access, CD access, etc. etc. etc. I would bet good money that a 667/133 machine is *way* faster than a 750/100 machine.

-- Carl "The overclocking guy" Norum

[theJeff]

There is no easy one-step guide to doing this. The info is spread across several articles and forum threads. I will put together a package of the articles/threads necessary to do this.

[Bellagio]

Peder,

I've read on xlr8yourmac of people using the Quicksilver board, but you need to supply 12v power to it from your power supply (among other things maybe). There's also discussions about quicksilver vs. digital audio 733 boards regarding their cache types (L1, L2, etc.)

Take a look in the xlr8yourmac forums for this because I didn't really pay close attention to the quicksilver models (because I chose not to deal with the 12v mod).

Later guys,
Bellagio

I'll be trying the 133mhz bus in the next few weeks...

[Bellagio]

At first glance, the 133Mhz bus upgrade looks like 1 jumper as well. It's just on the bottom of the motherboard (R433 i believe).

Is a voltage mod or anything else needed in addition to the jumper? That just sounds too easy...

[theJeff]

The 133Mhz Sawtooth bus overclock requires removing two surface mount resistors on the back side of the motherboard.

It also requires PC-133 RAM and adjusting the multiplier on the CPU card.

It also requires a Open Firmware hack to correct the timebase unless you're using Mac OS 9.2.2 or Mac OS 10.1.5.

Look here for the skinny:
<a href="http://www.xlr8yourmac.com/G4ZONE/sawtooth/SawtoothCPUdesign.html" target="_blank">http://www.xlr8yourmac.com/G4ZONE/sawtooth/SawtoothCPUdesign.html</a>

Here is a closeup of the two resistors you have to remove:
<a href="http://www.xlr8yourmac.com/G4ZONE/sawtooth/Fig6.jpg" target="_blank">http://www.xlr8yourmac.com/G4ZONE/sawtooth/Fig6.jpg</a>

Also, I found I had to add a fan blowing on the motherboard just above the CPU otherwise I had odd crashes in Mac OS 9. (But not X for some reason.)

[Darkness]

I think I was the first person to test the QS CPU on the gigabit sawtooth board... <a href="http://homepage.mac.com/josephk/G4_mod.html" target="_blank">http://homepage.mac.com/josephk/G4_mod.html...</a>

I am currently using a Dual 800 on the same board and it works fine as well...I will update the page to reflect that....removal of IDE connector is a requirement with the Duals, where's as the single's might allow you to fit an IDE connector in there if you're careful...I use a Sonnet Tempo card for my drives, and put the CD-ROM on the onboard UDMA channel, so that it is bootable...no ill effects.

Mike put my review of the Dual 800 in the news today, but I don't think people will realize its a sawtooth gigabit because he explained it as originally being 867.

If you need any advice, although the setup is pretty straightforward, let me know...

--Joe

<small>[ 06-17-2002, 05:06 PM: Message edited by: Darkness ]</small>

[Darkness]

Oh, and I don't recommend the bus overclock just because, you really need CL2 RAM if you don't want some nice kernel panics, and because not all boards are going to react well to the change...one board I have did not have a problem, but another worked for a few minutes before it became irreperably damaged...as always, YMMV

Also, the positioning of the single QS in a gigabit case is very good for airflow and keeps the processor well cooled...however, the same cannot be said for the Dual, which seems to run hot anyway...a good cooling solution is in order when running a Dual on an overclocked Gigabit board ( good heatsink might be enough...lol...stupid Apple heatsinks ), and perhaps even a DA, QS, or custom power supply, if running a lot of internal devices.

--Joe

[theJeff]

Wow! Darkness/Joe/whatever your name is:

Your page is what inspired me to try to get a faster processor in my Sawtooth. It was mucho helpful. Thanks alot!

[Darkness]

Thanks Jeff,

I'm one for taking stupid chances, and most often don't make out well...hehe...but in this case I was lucky enough to get it working...

...Jeff, do you have the darker green gigabit board, or the lighter green board?...I ask because I have had both and notice that the light green has been much less stable...its probably just a matter of chance though

--Joe