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waffffffle · Jan 14, 2001, 01:12 PM

Hi all. I am planning to make an mp3 player for my car. I've been thinking about it for a long time, here are the details:

Car: 2000 Toyota Celica GT (space is limited)
Computer: PowerBook 5300ce, 117MHz 603e, 32MB, 1.3 Gig (dying screen)
Display: I've seen 4" color LCDs on ebay for $200, but I'd rather use a smaller one if i can find it.
Input: I've got this numeric ADB keypad that I think I'm going to take apart and paint each key with a different function on it. I'll need some software to map they keys to the functions on the mp3 player. (Does USB overdrive do this for ADB devices?)
Software: Not sure. I need an mp3 player that can use skins because I need to make a giant 640x480 skin so that I can see everything on the LCD screen. It would also be nice if the skin can also show the playlist. What mp3 players do this? Thanks.
OS: Again, not sure. I'd like to use the oldest OS compatible with the mp3 player I chose. I have CDs for 7.5, 8.0, and 9.0. I can get others if necessary.
Other hardware: I'm going to need a monitor to TV adapter. Through what I've seen on ebay, it looks a lot cheaper to get a Mac to VGA adapter, and then get a VGA to TV adapter.
Power: I'm lucky to be using a PowerBook because I can get a car adapter for it, and the LCD screens I've seen come with lighter adapters. I'll need power for the TV adapter though, I just hope I can get something for it at radio shack. I'm no electronics expert, even things like transformers are foreign to me.

Other issues: Ok now for the good stuff.

Power off: I need some help with this one. I'm hoping that I can make an applescript to safely shut down the PowerBook as soon as the car is turned off. Basically I need an applescript to shut down the machine as soon as it goes on battery power (but I would also like the option to turn of this applescript with a keystroke-capslock key?). Oh and the battery is dead on my machine and I need to buy another one.

Networking: I have a network in my house, and I already have an ethernet card for the 5300. I could just hang the dongle from the ceiling of the garage (its very long) and plug it in when i need to update the mp3s. Then I could go upstairs to my Performa 6400 (sort of the mp3 server for the house) and update the mp3s on the PowerBook (playlists too). This wouldn't cost me much, but I'd much rather get a skyline card for the PowerBook and do it wirelessly (i have an airport base station.) This is when I'd like to run the PowerBook off the battery and have that applescript disabled.

I plan on putting the computer in the armrest of my car, and the display right smack on top of the dashboard, next to my keypad. If any of you are familiar with the celica, it has this compartment above the radio with a door that flips open upwards. I'm thinking I'll either mount them on the door to that, or I'll cut holes for them on the door, and mount them inside, I'm not sure. The reason I want to put the PowerBook in the armrest is 1: easy access to the power button on the back of the book , and second, so that i can let the dongle drop through the sunroof right into the armrest.

The one part that I conveniently left out is audio wiring. I don't really know how to do it. I've only had experience changing one car stereo in an old maxima, and that was easy cause everything was 1 DIN. The celica's stereo is an odd shape, also, I would like to plug the PowerBook directly into the amp, so that i can run it completely without the stereo on at all. Is this possible? Do you think the amp uses rca jacks? I was thinking that i could mount a switch somewhere to switch the amp between the radio and the PowerBook.

Cost:
Stuff I already have: Powerbook, keypad, ethernet card+dongle.

Stuff I need:
LCD Display $200?
Mac to VGA adapter $10?
VGA to TV adapter $15?
Power for TV adapter $10?

I'd like to know what everyone thinks about all this. I've been planning this for ever, but I'm at school right now and my car is home. I'm thinking this would make a great summer project (last summer it was a macquarium, but i never finished). This one I will definitely finish. Thanks for reading the long post, Now give me feedback!!! (Please.)

lnoble · Jan 15, 2001, 01:24 PM

Get a much bigger hard drive. 1.3 Gigs wouldn't be a 20th of what I would fill up.

waffffffle · Jan 15, 2001, 01:27 PM

I want to put the 6 Gig HD from my pismo in the 5300 and get a bigger HD for my pismo. I just don't know if the pismo HD will fit, or work in the 5300. I put a post in the powerbook forum, but no answers, anybody know?

scaught · Jan 16, 2001, 08:13 PM

im sure your fun lies more in the modding of a mac to fit in your car and i see your pursuit as noble indeed so i mean not to insult, but they made in dash recievers that will play a CD full of mp3's. i think they price at around 400 or so. i saw some in the crutchfield catalog.

scott

sine -''-..- · Jan 17, 2001, 01:21 AM

well as for the harddrive, the pismo HD will fit, if anything it'll be too thin, but either than that the connections are the same.

s i n e
-''-..-

waffffffle · Jan 18, 2001, 03:03 AM

I am aware that there are plenty of car mp3 solutions. But they all pretty much suck. One runs linux and costs $1100, and another uses a hard drive bay module, but al the reviews that I've heard say it doesn't work well. I also want to avoid using an MP3 CD reader because I personally don't enjoy burning CDs. The only way that I can get the networking capability that I want is to install a Mac in my car. There are only 2 other Mac mp3 cars out there, both used desktop machines, so I should have a much easier time, but many of my ideas are new, and no one has done them before.

lothar56 · Jan 19, 2001, 01:32 PM

I also have a 5300cs and when I'm at home I use a CD to Cassette adapter to connect it to my stereo speakers. You can get them at Wal-Mart or the like for $10-$15. Plug it into the audio out jack on the rear of the PB and put the cassette into the cassette play in your car stereo. That way you can also control the volume from the PB on the stereo.

waffffffle · Jan 20, 2001, 02:01 AM

I am aware of these adapters, but the whole idea of this project is to wire the audio directly to the amp so that there is the smallest possible loss in quality. Thats the point of digital audio anyway. Also it would look horrible. Im definitely going for a very streamlined look.

CMYKid · Jan 22, 2001, 11:12 AM

look, i''m doin the exact same thing with a PB/266 that i have layin around, so I'm not knockin the project itself, but you dont hafta get TOO overly hyped about wiring directly to the amp for a number of reasons. First off, you probably can't/shouldn't because the signal just isnt enough (you'd need a decent pre-amp first) but most importantly it's about LACK of quality.

>"the point of digital audio is quality" Not really...at least not in THIS particular instance. Strictly speaking thats true, but the point of digital MP3 audio is the reverse...NOT quality but space savings. Look, as a consumer i LOVE mp3's because I can find incredible obscure stuff that doesnt exist in other recorded forms, BUT as someone who's worked for years in the touring sound biz I hate what compressed audio has done to the public. People really think that mp3's are or even CAN be 'near' CD quality butit's really not. so...dont sweat the quality loss issua a whole lot. either stick with the tape deck route, which I wouldnt do, or get an aftermarket stereo that has a line in of sorts.

Ifya have questions, I'd love to answer or discuss....e-me... ryan@saacollege.com

:r

waffffffle · Jan 22, 2001, 04:51 PM

I am completely aware of the crummy compression methods of mp3s. But there is still decent quality there. Especially in high bit rates. A tape adapter would be pretty much awful. There's no chance im going with that.

CMYKid · Jan 23, 2001, 08:53 PM

oh, i'm withya....I'd hate that too, only'd do it to get off the ground and troubleshoot and such...but you'll notr be able to dump any sort of signal directly into the 'amp' of your nifty 8-track pull-out UNLESS the Celicas system has not only an external amp (incredibly rare in fact'ry stereos) but also an amp that takes a typical line level signal input.

If you dont want to go with an aftermarket stereo then the simplest option, tho it severely limits the already limited and compressed bandwidth, is to purchase an RF adapter that broadcasts the signal on one of a variety of unused FM frequencies. Quality isnt the hottest but it's not terrible...as a side note most CD changers do exactly the same thing, takinf the extra fidelity gained from CD audio and compressing it into the limited frequency bandwidth of FM radio. ugh, so much for 'quality' eh?

I'm busy tryin to decide how to do exactly this same problem inna 2000 Celica that I dont really wanna cut into too much. Likely I'll just hafta getta diff stereo tho...

:ryan

waffffffle · Jan 23, 2001, 10:07 PM

Yea I like the Toyota radio, but I was pretty sure that I would have to replace it, and get a new amp, in order to be able to plug the Powerbook in. That'll mean getting these mounting backets off of ebay that will mount a DIN sized radio in place of the big Toyota radio, and also leave a storage area below.

Also, there is a little hope for another idea I had. Since there are plenty of wintel mp3 cars out there, there are these LCD displays that plug into the parallel port of a PC. The displays are little green text displays, but they're cheap, and would be much easier to mount as opposed to a large color LCD. The display uses a winamp plugin. Given the recent rumors that nullsoft will be releasing a Mac version of Winamp, assuming that the plugins will be compatable (I hope they will be) I may be able to get one of those displays working with my car instead of splurging on an expensive color LCD. We'll see. . .

chucke · Jan 23, 2001, 11:11 PM

If you are going dierectly from the PB to an amp, then there are two options you could use to boost your signal and get it to the amp.

#1. Buy an in-dash EQ. Not only could you use it as a volume control and pathway to the amp, you could also use the EQ to improve the sound output. Take a look at Alpine's EQ... very nice.

#2. You could also look into a balanced line converter/line level amplifier. Look at http://www.audiocontrol.com/caraudio.htm. It will amplify the signal from your PB as well as convert it to a balanced signal to minimize loss to the amplifier. this option will be pricey, but would be cool.

They also have in-dash EQ/Line level amp combos at Audio Controls website (same link). Check it out it might be just what you are looking for.

Good luck, sounds like fun :-)

Chucke

CMYKid · Jan 24, 2001, 01:14 PM

same problem tho chuck, no amp to send signal TOO...

Powerbook, balanced line converter, Crown Macrotech 3000,
Power Inverter, EAW High packs in the back seat...problem solved! 8-)

only about $10,000 but of course it's the QUALITY that matters, eh?

:r

COmie JOe · Jan 28, 2001, 12:09 AM

hey go trade in your 5300 and buy one of these http://www.cyberpowerpc.com/napprotmppla.html
my friend just got one and it is awsem

COmie JOe · Jan 28, 2001, 12:12 AM

it's only like $111 and you can get a old burner to connect to your 6400. to make MP3 CD. or make VCDs to watch. it plays CD-R, CD-RW, and product CDs

waffffffle · Feb 6, 2001, 12:14 PM

I don't want to burn cds. I hate burning CDs. It's so annoying. I want a hard disk based system. But it looks like I;ve been beaten to it. Some guy posted into the powerbook forum how he put a powerbook g3 into his pathfinder. he did an amazing job.

waffffffle · Feb 6, 2001, 02:51 PM

I don't want to burn cds. I hate burning CDs. It's so annoying. I want a hard disk based system. But it looks like I;ve been beaten to it. Some guy posted into the powerbook forum how he put a powerbook g3 into his pathfinder. he did an amazing job.

andi*pandi · Feb 7, 2001, 04:43 PM

you mean this guy, i presume...
http://24.7.157.64/Home.html

pretty neat. but judging from the pix, he must have spent lots of moolah custom fitting things...

COmie JOe · Feb 8, 2001, 10:02 PM

Why a HD based system? I am just saying for the price of everything you can just go with a indash MP3/CD player for less price and more reliable.

waffffffle · Feb 9, 2001, 10:05 AM

because burning CDs takes time. I don't want that. I want to be able to update my car mp3s via network, not have to burn a stupid cd everytime i want a new song. I also want to keep my stock toyota radio because it looks really nice, and I just found out how to do that, so I'm pretty much set.

COmie JOe · Feb 9, 2001, 05:09 PM

dose your stero system have a aux input? or are you going to use a tape adaptor.

waffffffle · Feb 9, 2001, 09:31 PM

My stereo isnt "supposed" to take any input, but thanks to the guys in the mp3car.com forums I've found out how to make it take aux input. By using an adapter that is meant for a toyota CD changer I will be able to force the stereo to take rca inputs, thinking it's a cd changer, which is all good.

l008com · Feb 10, 2001, 12:30 AM

Well hommie, let me tell you my plan for my Blazer. It has these nice compartments beside the back seats on teh floor. So i plan on running some nice 12 volt power cable to one. Inside i throw a small Power inverter, just enough to run my computer. Then i take a performa 6200/6300/6400 and take it apart. These are the perfect computers to use because they are cheap, PPC, and use IDE hard drives. I plan on buying a new 20 GB IBM Hard drive for it. And ether card. obviously no keyboard and mouse, and no monitor of any kind. I plan on using and old gravis gamepad (painted to match things) to control music selection, and making the mac speak for feedback. And I might be able to make my stearing wheel controls do next/prev track selection, i don't know yet. So one ADB wire going under the rug from the floor console in the back to the center console in the front, and a 3rd wire going from the macintosh to my head unit. Appletalk with guest access will be left on, and when i want to update my MP3's, i just plug it in and open an applescript i will write. And as for player software, i have already started to wire a custom player in Realbasic that will do exactly what i need it to do. (My network is 10base, so the initial coping of all the MP3's I have now will take over 9 hours). This system will be out of site and it should work perfectly, jsut a little game pad controller flopping around inside, no big deal, and hopefully i can get my steering wheel controls to change the track, so when i have my player on shuffle, i can skipp around easier. I started using SoundJam and putting ALL my MP3's in one playlist, in folders. So I learned jsut how great it can be to hit shuffle and have all your 1500 or so MP3's played in random order.

And by the way, two 200 WATT (RMS) 10" subs in back too.
ZR2 package too if you really wanted to know.

------------------
Make Money With Your Macintosh!

waffffffle · Feb 11, 2001, 04:32 AM

Destin told me that next weekend he'll have the details of how he made his steering wheel controls, which I am very interested in. Although I don't already have those controls on my car so I may have in improvise a little. we'll see what happens

COmie JOe · Feb 12, 2001, 06:54 PM

hey do you know if there is a adaptor for ford cars?

waffffffle · Feb 13, 2001, 11:58 PM

ask the people in the mp3car.com forums. thats how i found this one for my car.

CMYKid · Feb 17, 2001, 08:14 PM

GEE, wow, a CD changer RF adapter to drop the audio signal inta the head unit...that sounds suspiciously like the suggestion I offered as the definitive aswer lo these many weeks ago... anywho, you dont really need one specifically for your brand o' car. You can buy them at justabout any car audio store (just look for a building witha buncha gay-lookin modified Honda Civics outside...) or one of those evil electronics superstores a la, Best Buy....

yeah, thats the best way to do this without replacing your head unit, but you DO need to remember that you're taking a limited bandwidth signal of low quality (MP3) and feeding it thru the limited quality and audio bandwidth of a radio frequency signal...so if that doesnt bother you then I'd do it...it's what I've ended up doing for two similar installs I've done...

:ryan

waffffffle · Feb 19, 2001, 01:27 AM

dude, this ain't no RF adapter. With this device my head unit will take RCA inputs, plain and simple. I hate RF adapters, the sound awful in my experience, and then when you switch back to the radio your volume is out of whack. Plus it's just a pain to use in general.

CMYKid · Feb 20, 2001, 06:41 PM

if it plugs into the antenna line then it's an RF adapter, even with RCA INputs...thot you said it did...

:r

CMYKid · Feb 20, 2001, 06:46 PM

if it plugs into the antenna line then it's an RF adapter, even with RCA INputs...thot you said it did...

:r

waffffffle · Feb 21, 2001, 01:03 AM

this is getting annoying repeating myself, but i'll try this one more time. it doesn't touch the antenna. it goes in through the rotary jack that is meant for a toyota factory cd changer, ok?

waffffffle · Mar 4, 2001, 11:34 PM

I'm just posting this to tell all of you that I may decide not to do this project anymore because Apple has once again decided to take back 5300s (or at least that's the rumor on Thinksecret.com) so I may trade mine in for a $1600 Pismo. I don't know if it's worth it though, because I've already spent like $40 to fix this machine up. (New trackpad button, new battery, new modem dongle) I don't know if I want to give it up. Plus, It's currently the only Mac that I have at school that can use my serial midi interface. This would mean buying a new USB interface, which is expensive. I don't know, i just don't know. Plus, $1600 for a Pismo 400 isn't that great of a deal anymore. It used to be $1800 if you trade in. And I bought my Pismo 400 for $2000 in August through the Apple Store for education because they were clearing them out before they upped the HDs. OK, peace.

Thebaddog · Mar 13, 2001, 07:27 PM

Any info on VW cars?