[funkboy]

I'd like to invite everyone to download and try out KTA Tennis, my entry into the uDevGame 2003 contest sponsored by iDevGames.com. Right now, the iDevGames site is down (strange server difficulty) , but please try out my game at:

Mac OS X version: http://www.trapzero.com/Downloads/ktatennis-osx.sit

Mac OS 7 - 9 version: http://www.trapzero.com/Downloads/ktatennis-os9.sit

Windows: http://www.trapzero.com/Downloads/ktatennis-win.zip

Let me know what you think!

[Weezer]

how did your golf game end up doing in that thing last year?

[Weezer]

ok, so here are some comments on the game:

After trying for 5 minutes, I was able to get one freaking serve to actually go in the box. Controlling the serve is way too difficult and doesnt do what I think it will. Also, have you ever played super tennis for snes? I feel like that is what this game should be like. I would not use the mouse as an input, but rather use the arrow keys to move the player, and have two different action buttons, regular swing, and slice. To serve, pressing the swing button once would throw the ball in the air, then pressing it again would have the player hit the ball. Using the mouse to hit the ball just isnt fun.

[funkboy]

Thanks for the input so far. I forgot to add in my first post: this game may not be fun, I'm really just testing it out to see if it's a fun concept or not. Apparently you don't think so, Weezer.

I myself have always wanted to do a game with mouse control like this, but my implementation leaves some to desire.

I was hoping to make a game on par with Super Tennis... as far as how fun it was. I could try to change the control to be like that game.

Do you think having a training mode to show how to properly hit it would help the game be a lot more enjoyable?

I think the animation has a big part to do with it - if the computer animated (which is coming - sprite artists are really hard to find! Please let me know if you know of any artists who would be interested in contributing to my project) it would look/feel a lot better.



Also, my golf game did overall well - 12th place overall (out of about 40 games) and 8th place in gameplay, which I was especially proud of.

[Weezer]

Training mode? not really.

I just think that fundamentally, holding and rolling your mouse isnt fun. It reminds me too much of bad flash games. I would just make a clone of super tennis, and you'll have a winner

oh, and your tennis court itself looks rather whack. It's not very proportional, and the net looks funky. I have faith though, keep plugging away.

[phillryu]

Wow, one of the worst tennis games I've ever played, ever. Then again, the only one I've ever played is Mario Tennis (which, by the way, rocks). So here are my suggestions to make this game easily twice as fun as it already is.

First, move the player around with the mouse, click to hit the ball, the ball goes depending on where you are in relation to it, or maybe what direction you jerk the mouse in while you hit it. Make it difficult to hit the ball in the net, or completely off the sides, aka, let's assume the player is at least a novice.

Then, you definitely need animation, and perhaps semi 3d, where the court is slanted and the opponents smaller, ball shrinks as it moves to other side, to provide at least some visual feedback to the height of the net (which is a pretty big deal with tennis).

The mouse keys could be improved a lot more if they moved the players faster. Generally, this game needs to be more fast paced, have cool music, better effects, and character graphics.

[funkboy]

Thanks for the input folks. Keep it coming, I love hearing it.

I think I will try adding in a new control method tonight - but I think animation is my first order of business. Animation for the computer player, and smoother animation for the human player.

I'll hopefully have a newer build to post tonight or tomorrow - I'll drop a note here once it's done!

Thanks,
Karl

[phillryu]

Smoother? They show up as gray blocks here.. Then again, I was using 7B80, I'll check in a few minutes with GM.

[phillryu]

Ooh, animations on GM That makes this look quite a bit better, though still control problems. Also, comp continued playing after I faulted, cause the ball kept on going.

[phillryu]

I think this definitely needs move player with mouse, and click once to hit. Also, faster ball with mouse controls. With networking, this could be very fun!

[Weezer]

Originally posted by phillryu:
I think this definitely needs move player with mouse, and click once to hit. Also, faster ball with mouse controls. With networking, this could be very fun!

nonono. Don't have the player move with the mouse, that's so juvenile.

[funkboy]

I've decided to go with a keyboard-only control style in addition to my current control scheme (which will get somewhat reworked, too).

Hopefully I can work on this tonight... last night's plans kind of fell through for working on it. Guess I have to do homework *some*time...

[funkboy]

All right, new version of KTA Tennis! Version 0.39 introduces:

- computer serving (finally, you can actually play a real match)
- net graphics (a real net)
- customizable keys (makes it easier to play on small laptop keyboards, or just if you have a preferred layout)
- better score display (shows your name when it scrolls over the text)

Unfortunately I haven't gotten keyboard-only controls in version 0.39 - that will come in the next build, probably 0.42 or so, and it may even come out again later today!

You can download it, as always, at:
http://www.karlbecker.com/tennis/

Please let me know what you think of the game!

[phillryu]

This is much better, I'm looking forward to either keyboard only or single click (no dragging) controls. Also, I can't see the comp when he's serving. Net graphics help.

[funkboy]

Originally posted by phillryu:
This is much better, I'm looking forward to either keyboard only or single click (no dragging) controls. Also, I can't see the comp when he's serving. Net graphics help.

Yup, the computer serving thing is annoying, but I will fix that in the next version since the window will resize to the size of your monitor - right now it stays at just this size, but it'll automatically toggle to the size of your monitor.

[funkboy]

Yet another version, 0.42, of KTA Tennis is now available.

changes include:
- keyboard-only control mode to put the game more in line with Super Tennis and other standard tennis games
- auto-resizing of the window to your monitor

Same place as always,

http://www.karlbecker.com/tennis/

Please, anyone, let me know what you think! Don't be shy, I'd love to have input from people other than phillryu and Weezer, too!

[Weezer]

It's definitely getting better. The computer AI and control is still really rough, as it often will hit the ball out, and also will return shots that are clearly out of range. The serving system should be two keystrokes, one to throw up, one to actually hit it. Also, the court doesnt seem to be perportioned correctly overall, but maybe Im just missing something. Keep going at it, I remember playing your first version of golf that wasnt all that great, but you kept at it and made a fine product. I'm a super tennis junkie, so make me a clone and you're all set

[funkboy]

Originally posted by Weezer:
It's definitely getting better. The computer AI and control is still really rough, as it often will hit the ball out, and also will return shots that are clearly out of range. The serving system should be two keystrokes, one to throw up, one to actually hit it. Also, the court doesnt seem to be perportioned correctly overall, but maybe Im just missing something. Keep going at it, I remember playing your first version of golf that wasnt all that great, but you kept at it and made a fine product. I'm a super tennis junkie, so make me a clone and you're all set

Thanks for the encouragement Weezer, I really appreciate it

I'm very glad to hear you also think KGA Golf has become a pretty good product, too. I do hope to add some new modes into that game, too, including Ring Golf (like Mario Golf ), 2-4 players at one computer (though I doubt many people will use that... who knows though), and some other gameplay modes. Just have to plan them out and implement them - something I put on hold while entering this contest. Hopefully the udevgame contest can come back up soon and voting can begin again - I want to find out who wins this year!

Hopefully KTA Tennis can become really fun, too, since I've always wanted to see a great tennis game on the Mac - I guess I didn't think I'd *have* to make one to see it happen anytime soon

Again, thanks for all the support,
Karl

[funkboy]

New day, new version. Check out
http://www.karlbecker.com/tennis/

for version 0.45, which now features a trail on the ball and completely, totally, and utterly proper tennis rules. (at least it better be - if not, report the bug to me, it should be perfect tennis rules now!)

[kelesh]

ehm, the webpage says "version 0.42"

[funkboy]

Originally posted by kelesh:
ehm, the webpage says "version 0.42"

Thanks, fixed

0.45 is available, though, rest assured. Especially now

[Weezer]

keeps getting better...The biggest problem right now IMO is that the court feels too small. The computer ALWAYS hits the ball out, and will often do really dumb AI things like hit the ball when its clearly going out. More player animations would help out too.

[Tulkas]

I thought maybe these would help you:
http://mac.the-underdogs.org/index.p...ame&id=309

http://mac.the-underdogs.org/index.p...ame&id=289

http://mac.the-underdogs.org/index.p...ame&id=191

Try them with vMac, great games thT i really loved.

I think mouse controls are better...

[Tulkas]

The angle is wrong. I think it should be slightly higher than a back view. Right now its absurdly hard to judge how high the ball is.

Without mouse control its impossible to do anything with any accuracy at all. It would be nice if the player turned and did backhand shots.

The ball is really weird. Very bouncy. Again, no real way to make a good shot with it. If you're lucky it'll not go too low or high. Aiming usually send the ball way out.

I may have come off a little rough, just trying to help make it better.

[funkboy]

Hi Tulkas,
thanks for the input. Always glad to hear input.

Originally posted by Tulkas:
The angle is wrong. I think it should be slightly higher than a back view. Right now its absurdly hard to judge how high the ball is.

I hope to put in a court with more perspective in it in a future version. Would making the shadow more noticeable or making the ball bigger / more noticeable alleviate the problem at all?

Without mouse control its impossible to do anything with any accuracy at all.
...
The ball is really weird. Very bouncy. Again, no real way to make a good shot with it. If you're lucky it'll not go too low or high. Aiming usually send the ball way out.

I'm going to be working on making the keyboard controls not as sensitive tonight... as soon as I finish replying to this, in fact.

It would be nice if the player turned and did backhand shots.

I'd like that, too. If anyone knows of any artists who would like to create players for my game, please let me know, or let them know I'm looking for an artist. I haven't done any of the graphics for the game other than the court

I may have come off a little rough, just trying to help make it better.

No problem, thanks for the input, I always am looking to make my game better.

Also, (once the udevgame contest website comes back online), please vote in the contest, and try out the other games, too!

Thanks,
Karl

[funkboy]

Version 0.46 is now up at:
http://www.karlbecker.com/tennis/

Improvements include better keyboard control as requested by Tulkas (not hitting it out of bounds as much) , and slightly smarter computer AI.

If anyone is finding these constant updates on my progress to be filling the forum with junk, let me know and I'll pare down my posts. Otherwise, I'm happy to keep this forum updated with my game's latest status.

[redJag]

Nah, not cluttering up the forum at all! It's all on one thread. Keep up the good work, I'll try to pull together some constructive criticism some time.

[funkboy]

Version 0.48 is now available to download.

http://www.karlbecker.com/tennis/

Improvements this time around include:
- ball gets bigger and smaller according to its height
- line judge (he'll get better and more animated later)
- slightly improved keyboard control again (ball should go out of bounds even less when you hit it)
- better computer AI (computer is still not very great at serving though)
- various important bug fixes

Your thoughts?

[chris.p]

From a marketing point of view, how about theming the game? player graphic, etc- like in Mario Golf, like you said. Maybe have beach tennis, or each match in different terrains, against players with different strenghs+ weaknesses, depending where they are from? or have animals playing? it might make it more fun (I am downloading now, so I cant comemnt, but ive been waiting for a decent osx tennis game )

good luck!

[funkboy]

Originally posted by chris.p:
From a marketing point of view, how about theming the game? player graphic, etc- like in Mario Golf, like you said. Maybe have beach tennis, or each match in different terrains, against players with different strenghs+ weaknesses, depending where they are from? or have animals playing? it might make it more fun (I am downloading now, so I cant comemnt, but ive been waiting for a decent osx tennis game )

good luck!

Hi Chris,

thanks for the input! I'll definitely look into this for the future - I'll try making up some different courts as I get time, so instead of just "hard, clay," etc., you'll be able to pick some really cool, far-out venues to play tennis at.

Hopefully I can get some sprites, too - I tried making the one of the line judge by editing a sprite my friend had made for me of a single swinging animation, and I think it looks decent enough right now... but I really need someone else to do the art.

[funkboy]

Another quick note to let everyone know the game is up to 0.49.

http://www.karlbecker.com/tennis/

Improvements include
- slightly faster screen redraw than the previous 0.48 version
- a few other bug fixes and touchups

Let me know what you think!

[- - e r i k - -]

Half a bounce.

Well, that's what it did in my dock before disappearing. Mac OS X 10.3.1

[funkboy]

Originally posted by - - e r i k - -:
Half a bounce.

Well, that's what it did in my dock before disappearing. Mac OS X 10.3.1

Get the Stuffit 8.0.1 updater from either VersionTracker or Stuffit.com. That should probably fix the problem.

[funkboy]

0.50 is available from
http://www.karlbecker.com/tennis/

and now features computer animation (finally!), backhand swing animation for the regular player, and a little smarter computer player.

Please let me know what you think - and also, try out all the games in the uDevGame 2003 contest now that it's back up and running:

http://www.idevgames.com/content/con...show_entries=1

You can see the link for voting there, too.

[Macfreak7]

has alot of potential!
if you want to implement mouse control, take a look at table tennis on www.shockplay.com. I think that's great.

Other than that, keyboard input is cool. it's just hard to return. No backhand. hard to control the direction of your shot also. Game play is kinda erratic even.

[Horsepoo!!!]

I agree with macfreak and the others...adding mouse support for racket control would be awesome.

Keyboard to control player and mouse movement to control ball direction and mouse click to control racket swing.

Right now, you have to be moving in a certain direction to send a ball that way...and this is really hard to do with the 'digital' nature of the keyboard. At least with a mouse (more analog in nature) you can control a bigger range of angles and speed (mouse movement speed).

The ball should be affected by both what you do with the mouse and the direction your character is going in...like in real life, if you're running to the back of the court to hit a ball, you won't have the same power to hit the ball than if you were running towards the ball.

So both mouse movement and keyboard movement should affect the hit.

But the mouse should primarily be the angle and power of the stroke.

[funkboy]

Hi guys,

thanks for the input, and glad you enjoyed the game!

Originally posted by Horsepoo!!!:
I agree with macfreak and the others...adding mouse support for racket control would be awesome.

Keyboard to control player and mouse movement to control ball direction and mouse click to control racket swing.
...
But the mouse should primarily be the angle and power of the stroke.

Actually, if you click the "Setup" button, you will find the Mouse control option in there. Try it out, let me know what you think.

I gotta get to class!

[Weezer]

the new computer graphics are really creepy...the guy just doesn't look right

[funkboy]

Originally posted by Weezer:
the new computer graphics are really creepy...the guy just doesn't look right

Really? Could you be... a little more descriptive?

I myself like how the animation turned out, but I'm well adjusted to the images - maybe he just looks weird. He does turn all the way to the left and right when hitting, which is kind of weird.

[Weezer]

I dunno...I mean, just look at it? He's freaky. His head doesn't look centered, and he also has this scary look on his face.

[funkboy]

KTA Tennis 0.51 is available now, with 0.52 coming down the pipeline tomorrow night (Sunday night) if all goes well. Various bugs fixed, though it still has the odd looking guy... have you gotten over him yet, Weezer?

[Weezer]

Originally posted by funkboy:
have you gotten over him yet, Weezer?

He haunts my dreams

[JB72]

Originally posted by Weezer:
He haunts my dreams

Hahaha.

[funkboy]

Originally posted by Weezer:
He haunts my dreams

Sorry to hear it. If necessary, please call for counseling.

Too bad 0.52 didn't make it Sunday night... that 15-love bug is a really nasty bug, hard to track down. I hope to fix it this afternoon though... time for class now!

[Peter]

Originally posted by phillryu:
I think this definitely needs move player with mouse, and click once to hit. Also, faster ball with mouse controls. With networking, this could be very fun!

pleaseeee do that!

[funkboy]

Check it out. Though it still has the "Most Haunting Tennis Player Sprite Ever," the new version has:
* more aggressive AI (slightly more aggressive, anyhow)
* a fix to the really annoying bug that caused some rallies to end prematurely
* requires someone to win by 2 games in the final set to win the entire match

Has anyone noticed that the mouse control is too sensitive right now when serving? I'm going to make it less sensitive in the next version, so a wider variety of drag speeds of the mouse lets the ball land in.

--

Also, I'd love to do networking, and hopefully will get to sometime. I don't know if I can get 15 packets of data to move across the network every second, carrying all my game info and being decoded at each place, but I'll see what I can do.

As for mouse movement... well, again, that would be another big project for me to undertake, but I could see. Should the player stop moving when the mouse would be clicked to hit the ball?

[funkboy]

Hello everyone!

A new version of KTA Tennis, version 0.65, is available. It has hugely-improved computer intelligence, so I think a lot of you may be interested in checking it out.

Also, the control has been improved quite a bit from some of the previous versions - let me know what you think, I would really appreciate it!

Same URL to download the game from as always:
http://www.trapzero.com/Downloads/ktatennis-osx.zip
http://www.trapzero.com/Downloads/ktatennis-ppc.sit

[Weezer]

really nice update, its a lot better then the last time I played. Although I swear the new AI cheats. That little bastard runs super fast to hit balls. Also, its the same scary guy! change him! Add in a slice hitting option too.

[funkboy]

Originally posted by Weezer:
really nice update, its a lot better then the last time I played. Although I swear the new AI cheats. That little bastard runs super fast to hit balls. Also, its the same scary guy! change him!

The professional guy is very fast and very good

And I've got an artist for the game, so hopefully he'll get me some new animation soon.

Add in a slice hitting option too.

Hold left and right while hitting, of course, to angle your shot - aftertouch with a slice/hook effect, though, is not in the game yet. I may need a whole new button for that