[Horsepoo!!!]

Microsoft has stolen Bungie from us. Bungie was similar to Blizzard in the aspect that they were the developers *and* publisher for the longest time. They had total control over producing simultaneous Mac/PC releases.

Microsoft could have bought any other company and I wouldn't have cared since most others produce the PC game and then allow a port house to bring their games to another platform. But no, Microsoft had to buy a company that actually cared about producing Mac games.

Thanks MS.

Now, I don't know what pushed Alexander Seropian (Jason Jones too perhaps?) to leave MS/Bungie but he did, and he's started a new company called Wideload. Is this a move to create games he wants to create on the platform he wants?

Bungie was about making new genres and bringing groundbreaking ideas to the gaming world. But I bet MS had a different idea...Halo was really successful, why not make a sequel of the same genre.

I hope Wideload becomes the Bungie I once knew and cared about. I don't think I'll ever forgive Microsoft for what they've done to Bungie.

[Arkham_c]

Doubtful. Seropian is the one who owned Bungie, so he's responsible for them selling out in the first place. From my dealings with him as an admin for Myth and Myth II, he was a bit of a prick. I suspect this new company will just keep making PC and XBox games. We'll have to wait and see.

[phillryu]

Originally posted by Horsepoo!!!:
Bungie was about making new genres and bringing groundbreaking ideas to the gaming world. But I bet MS had a different idea...Halo was really successful, why not make a sequel of the same genre.

How many sequels did Marathon have?

[Horsepoo!!!]

Originally posted by phillryu:
How many sequels did Marathon have?

I know...I think they said they felt bad about making so many of them though...and then they pulled the same excuse for Myth 2.

[Arkham_c]

Originally posted by Horsepoo!!!:
I know...I think they said they felt bad about making so many of them though...and then they pulled the same excuse for Myth 2.

Myth II was better than the original though -- it was a sequel worth making. Myth III (which was not made by Bungie) was the one that sucked.

There's nothing wrong with a storyline sequel. I have a bigger problem with games like Warcraft->Warcraft 2->Starcraft->WC3->Command &Conquor->Age of Empires->AOE II->Star Wars Galactic Battleground->Age of Mythology, which are all essentially the same game with updated graphics.

1) Gather 3 or more resources.
2) Use resources to research and build an army
3) Use the army to defeat the enemy
4) Go To 1, rinse and repeat forever

[Adam Betts]

Originally posted by Arkham_c:
1) Gather 3 or more resources.
2) Use resources to research and build an army
3) Use the army to defeat the enemy
4) Go To 1, rinse and repeat forever

Isn't that a tried-and-true format?

BTW WC2 and WC3 is a separate game. It's not just a "graphic update" game.

[Arkham_c]

Originally posted by Adam Betts:
Isn't that a tried-and-true format?

BTW WC2 and WC3 is a separate game. It's not just a "graphic update" game.

Well, the basic theme is still the same. Harvest, research, build, destroy. Continue forever.

[::maroma::]

It's good to hear that Seropian (and Jones?) are leaving MS and going out on their own, regardless of what they end up producing. I too hold a grudge (one of many) against MS for taking Bungie away from us.

On a side note, I remember speaking to Jones at Macworld San Francisco '94 (or somewhere close to that year, can't recall exactly). My brother and I were HUGE fans of Minotaur (anyone remember that game??). It had long since been put in the deep freezer by Bungie, and my bro and I wanted to update the game, and asked Jones personally for the source code.

Needless to say, he said "No." He was actually very nice, and said something to the effect of "Sorry, Minotaur holds a very special place in my heart and I can't give out the code." Hey, it was worth a shot!

[mac freak]

Originally posted by Arkham_c:
Well, the basic theme is still the same. Harvest, research, build, destroy. Continue forever.

By your logic:

Any shooter = walk around, see enemy, shoot enemy, get ammo, repeat.
Any RPG = walk around, kill monster, get exp, get itamz, level up, repeat.
Any TBS = build colony, do research, build army, kill opposition, repeat.
Any platformer = start level, jump to platforms, collect various things, kill boss, repeat.

I could go on, but the point is that all genres have their formulas and that's ok!

[lenox]

The Marathon series did a great job of breaking out of their genre by being very plot-driven and requiring a lot of research/reading to really fuly enjoy the game. It was also a case of the sequel being superior to the original in almost every way.

Oh, how I loved those games. Oh, how Halo was such a disappointment.

[eyevaan]

Halo has its disappointing moments. I don't own an X-Box and only play it from time to time. The real biggest disappointment was Bungie jumping away from the Mac Community.

Everytime I play it I think that for a moment...

the moment before I train my sniper rifle on my best friend and lob a couple of grenades at his PC loving a . - - it makes me smile everytime.

[Cipher13]

Originally posted by ::maroma:::
It's good to hear that Seropian (and Jones?) are leaving MS and going out on their own, regardless of what they end up producing. I too hold a grudge (one of many) against MS for taking Bungie away from us.

On a side note, I remember speaking to Jones at Macworld San Francisco '94 (or somewhere close to that year, can't recall exactly). My brother and I were HUGE fans of Minotaur (anyone remember that game??). It had long since been put in the deep freezer by Bungie, and my bro and I wanted to update the game, and asked Jones personally for the source code.

Needless to say, he said "No." He was actually very nice, and said something to the effect of "Sorry, Minotaur holds a very special place in my heart and I can't give out the code." Hey, it was worth a shot!

MS didn't take Bungie away from us.

Bungie gave themselves to MS.

Blame Bungie, not MS.

[Caesar2099]

Originally posted by Cipher13:
MS didn't take Bungie away from us.

Bungie gave themselves to MS.

Blame Bungie, not MS.

Shut up you c0ck suckin' douche bag, seriosuly go f**k yourself.

Think about it, Bungie was offered to test the limits of a new gaming console, and possibly brake the boundries of the first person shooter genre, plus the game would get ported to the mac anyway. I don't see why they're sold out bastards. The fact is we still got the game, and they happened gain a few bucks by making the game for Microsoft.

[AKcrab]

Originally posted by Caesar2099:
Shut up you c0ck suckin' douche bag, seriosuly go f**k yourself.

Dude, what's your beef? In love with Cipher, or work for Bungie?

[Caesar2099]

Originally posted by AKcrab:
Dude, what's your beef? In love with Cipher, or work for Bungie?

No I just like starting fights with people, sorry Cipher didn't mean to slander your good name.

[Cipher13]

Originally posted by Caesar2099:
Shut up you c0ck suckin' douche bag, seriosuly go f**k yourself.

Think about it, Bungie was offered to test the limits of a new gaming console, and possibly brake the boundries of the first person shooter genre, plus the game would get ported to the mac anyway. I don't see why they're sold out bastards. The fact is we still got the game, and they happened gain a few bucks by making the game for Microsoft.

Regardless of whether that's true or not (or whether it matters or not, in fact), I am correct.

It was Bungie's decision to sell to Microsoft. It isn't like MS forced them. That's all I was saying.

You read into it further; I made no comments about "selling out".

Originally posted by Caesar2099:
No I just like starting fights with people, sorry Cipher didn't mean to slander your good name.

No worries. You only did yourself damage.

[Caesar2099]

Wow I said some mean things, sorry everyone. I was pissed at something else and apparently it leaked through to my posting. Didn't mean to offend anyone, sorry about that.

[Forte]

and possibly brake the boundries of the first person shooter genre

Wasn't it a third-person title until a little while after the buyout, though?

[a2daj]

Originally posted by Forte:
Wasn't it a third-person title until a little while after the buyout, though?

Yeah. Jason Jones came to the conclusion that third person just wouldn't work out. And honestly, I'm not really sure how well it would have turned out as a 3rd person title. But, now that the HEK is out, maybe someone could make a mod that converts the game to third person and people can see what it's like.

[OwlBoy]

It would have to be 100% auto-aim with 3rd Person...



-Owl

[Horsepoo!!!]

Originally posted by a2daj:
Yeah. Jason Jones came to the conclusion that third person just wouldn't work out. And honestly, I'm not really sure how well it would have turned out as a 3rd person title. But, now that the HEK is out, maybe someone could make a mod that converts the game to third person and people can see what it's like.

Well...it would suck because the game changed to fit 1st person best. But a game tailored for 3rd person can be pretty cool too...Bungie just didn't know how to make one.

[RooneyX]

Bungie's idea of groundbreaking was crap. Valve - they break ground...but no Mac games

[Horsepoo!!!]

Originally posted by RooneyX:
Bungie's idea of groundbreaking was crap. Valve - they break ground...but no Mac games

Valve broke what grounds?

[lenox]

Valve broke....their gums, teething, by 'coding' with the q1/q2 engine.

They got lucky. I do believe they are just an example of what happens when you give a bunch of inspired guys an engine pre-made by coding gods (id) and allow them to make their own 'scenario' and graphics for it.

this must hold true because no one buys half-life for half-life the game anymore...they buy it for the incredible mods made for it. head on over to the steam forums for what people think of code they've done 'themselves'.

That is not to say Half-Life 2 won't rock - also, many many developers are using engines built by others, so it's not to be looked down upon or anything. Just be careful about what you dub 'original'.

[Horsepoo!!!]

Originally posted by lenox:
Valve broke....their gums, teething, by 'coding' with the q1/q2 engine.

They got lucky. I do believe they are just an example of what happens when you give a bunch of inspired guys an engine pre-made by coding gods (id) and allow them to make their own 'scenario' and graphics for it.

this must hold true because no one buys half-life for half-life the game anymore...they buy it for the incredible mods made for it. head on over to the steam forums for what people think of code they've done 'themselves'.

That is not to say Half-Life 2 won't rock - also, many many developers are using engines built by others, so it's not to be looked down upon or anything. Just be careful about what you dub 'original'.

Exactly. I think people are underestimating what iD and epic are giving to the world. iD has never really been about amazing storylines. They create high quality and highly customizable engines so others can do wonders with it.

Doom 3 might or might not have an intriguing plot (my bet is that it will though since iD is concentrating on the single-player aspect of the game)...but the big part is that the engine will be licensed to countless people that will use it to make the stories they want to tell come to life.

I'm sure Half-Life 2 will be great and all but will they be sharing the engine? I've got a feeling we'll see a crapload of games based on the Doom 3 engine. If iD is still releasing Doom 3 for Mac, this potentially means we'll see lots of good-looking, good-plot games coming to Mac.

Let's be honest for a moment here, was Half Life really all that good? The single player aspect went from pretty good to pretty damn crappy midway into the game. The muliplayer aspect went from pretty good to pretty full of cheaters not very long after it's release...not to mention the early versions which were buggy as hell.

I think I can sacrifice Half Life 2 when I see a large selection of games with deformable environments based on the Doom 3 coming to Mac.

Breaking grounds means giving something new and refreshing. Valve hasn't given anything new or refreshing (yet).

[lenox]

I also have a feeling that by the time Half Life 2 comes out, people won't be as thrilled as they thought they'd be. I mean, the 'amazing' physics engine (it's called Havok, I believe, and, to be fair, it really does rock) is already used in a released game (Painkiller), and the graphics sure are nice, but look at Far Cry...it's amazing on a capable graphics card.

That isn't to say I don't think Half-Life 2 won't rock. I just don't think it will be as revolutionary as many PC folks think, and definitely not as revolutionary as Doom 3.

That and...I agree with Horsey who says we have a much better chance of seeing Doom 3 on mac, whereas Half-Life 2 probably won't even glance our way. Anyhow, best of luck to them both! May the best engine win...and also rock on the mac.