[jlfspook]

Hey,

I'm not very wise in the ways of UNIX, but isn't Linux a version of Unix?

If they pull this off, will it help us Mac folks out?

I emailed the company to ask if it would work with PowerPC Linux distros. I'm not getting my hopes up, but if it would work it would be... amazing.

http://www.transgaming.com/news.php?newsid=119

TransGaming today unveils the milestone release of version 4.0 of its flagship product, WineX, which has been renamed to Cedega. Cedega allows Windows ® games to seamlessly and transparently run under Linux, out-of-the-box, with outstanding performance and equivalent game-play. Cedega 4.0 includes support for Microsoft ® DirectX ® 9.0, significantly broadening the scope and availability of the latest triple "A" titles for avid Linux gamers. The landmark release of Cedega 4.0 adds support for new blockbuster DirectX 9.0 titles such as EA's™ Battlefield Vietnam™, Eidos'™ Hitman: Contracts ©, and LucasArts' © Star Wars™Galaxies™, bringing the total number of games supported under Cedega to well over 300. Furthermore, Cedega features unprecedented support for NCSoft's ® recently released massive multiplayer online game, City of Heroes ® and Blizzard Entertainment's ® unreleased but highly anticipated World of WarCraft ®.

Jorge

[redJag]

Sorry, but no, it won't work. What WineX does it "emulate" the Windows API so that any system calls a game would normally make in a Windows environment are intercepted by WineX, and the function that was supposed to be performed by the Windows API is done by WineX. This only works on x86 (Intel, AMD, etc) chips. The executable game is compiled with x86 instructions and those would have to be emulated on the PPC (Apple) platform versions of Linux.

[Link]

Don't pull out your salt shakers TOO fast.

There is a project known as Darwine which was intended to run windows x86 programs on macs, rootlessly and even quicker than VPC since it wouldn't have to handle an OS.

If it actually gets good, DirectX support could be the next step in it's implementation

[redJag]

Originally posted by Link:
Don't pull out your salt shakers TOO fast.

There is a project known as Darwine which was intended to run windows x86 programs on macs, rootlessly and even quicker than VPC since it wouldn't have to handle an OS.

If it actually gets good, DirectX support could be the next step in it's implementation

Yep, and Darwine uses an x86 emulator (the open-source Bochs if I remember right) to run the executable

[Ryan Becker]

You guys are making me drool, and my wallet cringe... not sure if I want to have access to all those games or not.

-Ryan

[ginoledesma]

It will be quite the hurdle, considering the layers of "emulation" going on. Who knows what that could do to stability and performance?

Secondly, if emulation does become possible under Mac OS X through said emulation, it may impact whatever game development is on-going, since there will be less incentive (not necessarily none at all) to port or develop a game natively on the Mac.

[boris_cleto]

Originally posted by redJag:
Yep, and Darwine uses an x86 emulator (the open-source Bochs if I remember right) to run the executable

Actually they want to integrate it with QEMU

http://darwine.opendarwin.org//faq.php

[rytc]

Originally posted by Ryan Becker:
You guys are making me drool, and my wallet cringe... not sure if I want to have access to all those games or not.

-Ryan

As they point out a heap of emulation is required. Most current games push the limits of the higher end PC hardware, attempting to emulate that on an equivalently speced high-end Mac is going to be like running the game on a 4 year old PC.

[TheGrudge]

I emailed the company to ask if it would work with PowerPC Linux distros. I'm not getting my hopes up, but if it would work it would be... amazing.

As others have stated, the current Cedega product will not work on a PowerPC architecture. But I thought I'd point out some interesting tidbits:

In addition to their "Cedega" tool for Linux, TransGaming also assists game developers to port their code to alternative platforms, one of which is OS X. They've helped Aspyr out at least once - if you look on the back of a copy of SpyHunter 2 for the Mac, there's a little TransGaming logo at the bottom (at least there is on mine).

I also remember coming across the TransGaming name on Apple's games site, and managed to find a couple articles:

http://www.apple.com/games/articles/2003/06/spyhunter/
http://www.apple.com/games/articles/...9/lawandorder/

and from TransGaming's site itself:

http://www.transgaming.com/products_mac.php

Quite simply, TransGaming's Mac SDK is a proprietary and sophisticated clean-room implementation of the multi-media, sound, input, networking, graphics, and other APIs that power Win32-based video games. TransGaming provides a compatibility layer that allows software written for Win32-based systems, such as Windows and Xbox, to run on the MacOS X.

and

TransGaming's portability SDK reduces porting times by more than 50%, in some cases, and delivers a rich game play experience congruent to the original game.

So while it appears as though they do possess a Win32->OS X "toolkit", it's used more for porting -> ie: they have to build Mac-specific binaries, rather than running the PC ones directly.

Could something like Cedega/WineX work under OS X? There are a couple hurdles they'd need to overcome. They could intercept and translate Win32 API calls to equivalent OS X calls. This is actually how Cedega works, it intercepts things like DirectX calls and converts them to a Linux/OpenGL equivalent. *However* you'd have to go further than this on PowerPC due to the architectural differences between the platforms (ie: little versus big-endian addressing, etc). Thats why you see the Wine project (http://www.winehq.com) that Cedega is based upon on x86, but not on PowerPC

I still don't think you'd need to emulate an entire x86 architecture, but it would be a more sophisticated solution than what Cedega is today... and it would likely the game speed.

Still, from the blurb on TransGaming's site, they've ported Spy Hunter, Law & Order, and Tron 2.0 to the Mac in a very short period of time. If their OS X toolkit works as advertised and more Windows developers become aware of it, we may see more and more A-list games on OS X. YAY!

[Brad Oliver]

Originally posted by TheGrudge:
Still, from the blurb on TransGaming's site, they've ported Spy Hunter, Law & Order, and Tron 2.0 to the Mac in a very short period of time. If their OS X toolkit works as advertised and more Windows developers become aware of it, we may see more and more A-list games on OS X.

Every Mac porting house that I'm aware of has a Win32->MacOS translation library. I believe even Blizzard uses one for their Mac versions. If a PC developer wants to bring a title to the Mac themselves, they're unlikely to use something like Wine - they'd be able to port games more quickly by simply writing their engine to be cross-platform to begin with, like id and BioWare do.

[TheGrudge]

Originally posted by Brad Oliver:
If a PC developer wants to bring a title to the Mac themselves, they're unlikely to use something like Wine - they'd be able to port games more quickly by simply writing their engine to be cross-platform to begin with, like id and BioWare do.

Agreed. Only, how many PC developers *do* decide to release simultaneously for Windows and Mac? That's part of the problem. Aside from jewels like BioWare, id and a couple others, the Mac is typically an afterthought. Now, thankfully that is beginning to change, albeit slowly.

TransGaming seems to be positioning themselves to port titles for the straggler developers that still haven't settled on the Mac as a viable target. Note that they *aren't* using Wine to do the OS X ports - WineX/Cedega is their Linux product. But from their site it sounds as though they've capitalized on their experience with WineX to write a Win32->Mac toolkit that lets them port very quickly.

Seems as though they're more of a toolset builder than anything else, and they farm that toolset out to whoever needs it (Aspyr was mentioned in a few of the articles). Which is what I was trying to point out in my earlier post - maybe more game developers that don't have the time/desire to build in-house Mac skills will pick up on the availability of toolkits such as this, and we'll see more ports.

Native is best, but hey, I'll take a port too.

[DekuDekuplex]

Originally posted by TheGrudge:
[comments deleted]

If their OS X toolkit works as advertised and more Windows developers become aware of it, we may see more and more A-list games on OS X. YAY!

Top on my short list would definitely be Final Fantasy XI Online. I was so impressed with this MMORPG that I actually wrote an online article promoting game development, Why Apple Can’t Afford to
Ignore the Gaming Industry, mainly to try to convince the industry to port this MMORPG to Mac OS X. I'm going to find some way to get somebody to render this virtual world playable on the Mac if it's the last thing I ever do!

In addition, this month, I finally also moved from New York to Tokyo. I now live about two hours away by train from the Japanese HQ of Square Enix Co., Ltd.

If anybody reading this message has any suggestions about what I can do to help get FFXI Online either ported or simulated well on the Mac (preferably Mac OS X), could you please either reply or PM me? I can also speak/read/write fluently in Japanese (if this is of any help). For example, any suggestions on the following topics would be welcome:

• Influential Industrial Contacts
• Alternative Methods of Fast Emulation
• Alternative Methods of Fast Porting
• Alternative Influential Specialized Discussion Forums
• Petitions
• Magical Mind Influence (only half-kidding)
• Anything Else

--DekuDekuplex