[mr. burns]

i don't know about you guys but i still love diablo II and have been really in to it the last couple weeks. i play non-expac and hardcore on US west if anyone is interested. if you haven't played hardcore i highly recommend it. it's probably the only reason i'm still into the game. hardcore just makes it more exhilerating and intense, and it's that much more gradifying when you get to a higher level.

i also had a question about what new video card to buy. i have the gigabit dual 500 machine so 2x agp and 64mb of vram is all i can take. i want to get the radeon 9000 but i don't know where the best prices are. can anyone help me out?

[Turnpike]

I still play D2 quite a bit, but all my chars are xpac... and my connection precludes me from playing hardcore :-/ Then again, I haven't played much over the past few weeks/months (maybe two months... probably not), and with a dualie G5 supposed to arrive tomorrow, I doubt I will be playing it much in the coming weeks (gotta try something a little more taxing )

as for the video card, I would recommend an 8500, although when I was looking for a deal on one (12-18 months ago perhaps) I couldn't find much....

[TheDeathman]

If you have OS9 run Diablo under that, D2 owned in OS9 under my Blue/White G3 Tower, but the port to 10 isn't that great. Otherwise for video cards nVidia usually seems to be more OpenGL friendly, check www.macsales.com for them.

[ARK]

Im getting back into D2 again myself. So are a couple coworkers of mine. Its great fun. Expansion and Uswest for me!

[cruciarius]

i used to play d2x..not sure if my account is still active though. i had lots of high levels.

you guys/girls know their is a patch to run it OSX native plus you can even install it in OSX without having OS9.

running it in a window also helps game play. just press command+m and it'll go into a window.

[a2daj]

Run it in software mode. Don't use any hardware accelerated mode like RAVE or OpenGL unless you're in OS 9 and have a 3dfx card so you can use Glide rendering. Otherwise, Software mode, no matter what OS, will give you more consistent framerates. Not necessarily higher maximums, but more playable, consistent framerates. When you play in windowed mode in OS X, the game switches to software mode. I think the game defaults to using OpenGL mode, which is why you would notice an improvement playing in a window.

[Turnpike]

actually, there is an improvement (at least there was on my Sawtooth 400/10.3.5) in windowed mode over software mode. I'm not sure why, but I did get better rates. Of course, the edge of the window doesn't catch the cursor, which is very annoying.

Hold option at startup (of D2) to switch to software mode, if anybody didn't know.

[a2daj]

Originally posted by Turnpike:
actually, there is an improvement (at least there was on my Sawtooth 400/10.3.5) in windowed mode over software mode. I'm not sure why, but I did get better rates. Of course, the edge of the window doesn't catch the cursor, which is very annoying.

Hold option at startup (of D2) to switch to software mode, if anybody didn't know.

Not for me on any of my computers. There's a framerate drop when I switch to software mode. use /fps in the chat window to turn on your framerates (use multiplayer mode so you're not capping your framerate at 25 fps). Depending on which machine I've seen up to a 10 fps drop by switching to window mode.

[joe]

Originally posted by mr. burns:
i also had a question about what new video card to buy. i have the gigabit dual 500 machine so 2x agp and 64mb of vram is all i can take. i want to get the radeon 9000 but i don't know where the best prices are. can anyone help me out?

OWC has new ATI retail 9000 cards (w/ADC) for $149 if you link from their specials page at xlr8yourmac.com Recent eBay auctions show used retail 9000 cards (w/ADC) going for between $45-94. However, I agree with Turnpike. The Radeon 8500 is a better card if you don't need an ADC connector.

As for D2, I've tried it's OpenGL render mode with everything from Rage 128 Pro to GeForce4 Ti. Believe me when I say D2's Software Render mode works best in OSX. It may not seem like that when you're playing D2 at the lower levels where the OpenGL render is fast. But the real bottleneck with D2's OpenGL mode hits when there's lots of action or monsters running around on screen. It will slow to a crawl, drop a s-load of frames, then you die. You won't even see yourself die half the time. I know 1st hand because I got a little over confident after buying a refurb dual 1.42Ghz Tower with 128MB OEM Radeon 9700. I figured after playing D2 with a 500MHz iMac this thing would FINALLY be able to kick ass with D2's OpenGL mode. Afterall, my Quake3 OpenGL framerates were outrageious (200FPS+). And it did - until I got to the end of the 2nd Act. I was getting maybe 1-2 frames per second! No BS! I couldn't even see which way I was running. When I died and restarted in Software mode, problem solved.

This has nothing to do with OpenGL in general, most games run OpenGL great in OSX. Just not D2. You're really better off choosing D2's Software Render. It may benchmark slower than OpenGL in the beginning, but it won't slow down anywhere near as much when there is a lot of action on screen.....joe

[JMHammer]

Diablo 2

Mac OS 9 vs Mac OS X
The game plays much better in Mac OS 9. (Note that this refers to a Mac OS 9 BOOT, not Classic emulation running under a Mac OS X boot.) That said, the game plays just fine under Mac OS X if you have at least a G4-500 and a 32mb video card (video card doesn't matter if you play in Software Graphics Mode).

Graphics Modes
Blizzard optimized the game for Glide graphics, did a pretty good job with Rave graphics, and didn't put much effort into the OpenGL graphics. Unless you have a fully-functional 3dFX card (Voodoo II or better) and you play with Mac OS 9 and set for Glide Graphics Mode, you will get better framerates with Software Graphics Mode than with either Rave (Mac OS 9 only) or OpenGL (unless your hardware is of quite recent vintage). That said, the game is much, much prettier with hardware acceleration. If you have an ATI video card with at least 32mb of RAM and play under Mac OS 9, you'll probably enjoy it more that way and won't notice a major framerate drop in most cases. nVidia cards don't run the game as well because Blizzard didn't optimize their code for them and there are some buffer flush issues (this affects a very small number of other games, too). You would need a very recent vintage Mac with a fast processor and a recent/powerful nVidia card to have a decent experience; if you have a processor slower than G4-1.25 and less than 64mb in your nVidia card, you'll be much happier with Software Graphics Mode.

Window Mode
Switching to Window Mode from Full Screen Mode (by hitting <cmd-m> at any point in the game) forces the game to use Software Graphics Mode rather than whatever you set it to use. Also, this will often reduce the interpolated resolution of the game (i.e. if you have a 1024x768 LCD, the game is only running at either 640x480 or 800x600, but the image is being scaled up through interpolation to 1024x768). These two factors, the first being much more significant, is what makes people think that Window Mode provides a smoother graphics experience. This is NOT TRUE. Simply set your game to use Software Graphics Mode and you can play Full Screen Mode with exactly the same framerates you'll get in Window Mode.

So...

Use Mac OS 9 and a 3dFX card (Voodoo II or better) for the best play experience. Second choice is Mac OS 9 and Rave. Last choice is Mac OS 9 and Software Graphics Mode (and this is your first choice if you have any nVidia video card or any other type (except 3dFX) with less than 16mb of VRAM). Don't use OpenGL with Mac OS 9.

(By the way, I would not buy an old and unsupported 3dFX card just to play one game, even D2X which is my all-time favorite. Remember that 3dFX is out of business so even getting drivers that work properly under Mac OS 9 is difficult - not impossible, they are out there, but they are hard to find.)

That said, even though my Cube can boot into 9 or X, I prefer to play in X for reasons that have nothing to do with the game. It plays fine under Mac OS X and Software Graphics Mode for me (G4 Cube w/1ghz processor, 32mb ATI Radeon card, 1.5gb RAM) and I don't have to go through the hassle of rebooting and can keep iTunes and some other things running in the background. Anyway, unless you have a 64mb or better ATI video card, or a VERY fast processor (preferably a dual processor configuration) and an nVidia card with 128mb or better, you'll have a much better experience using Software Graphics Mode.

Best wishes,
John H

PS- Look for me on US-East Hardcore Expansion Non-Ladder under the following account names:
JMHammer
JohnMHammer
JohnMHammer2
JohnMHammer3
I play co-op only; no PKing, no dueling, etc.

[webb3201]

Funny my gaming group just got back into D2 after a few years off. We are so rusty as to be total newbies again.

I am running a dual Quicksilver box with the stock 64mb nVidia card and all seems well. I am using the hardware acceleration and it does look and run much better than a few years ago.

Man, I had forgotten about Duriel and got hammered about 12 times in a row before giving up. I have a level 20 bow using Amazon, and she just does not have the stuff to stop Duriel. I am hoping my buddies can help, or if any of you high level folks want to volunteer services, it would be much appreciated.

I am an Expansion character on west.

[phillryu]

I play on East. Here's what you do nowadays to powerlevel. (I got two level 73 characters in about four days.)

1-14 or so, Tristram runs
15-20, Tal Tomb runs (you need to do quests 1-5 first)
21-24, normal cows
24, Ancients
25-45 (seriously) normal Baal runs. You get like 2 levels a game sometimes, games are only a few minutes long.
45, rush NM, NM Ancients
46-73 NM Baal runs

Good stuff. I'd say levels 15-24 are a pain, the rest (trist and baal runs) are insanely quick. Get someone to rush you through Act 2 normal and NM.

[mr. burns]

is there a maphack for 1.10? i'd really like to be able to use it, especially playing hardcore. i'd like to see if there's monsters where i'm teleporting.

you guys seriously need to try hardcore classic. it's tougher and there's [what i think] a pretty cool little community. classic is for players who remember the old better diablo 2. back when whirlwind was actually good. expansion made it worse i think.

[phillryu]

No, but I wish there was a maphack for Mac. I remember there used to be an old classic extension, but it obviously isn't for OS X

[JMHammer]

So you play Hardcore, the entire point of which is to increase the difficulty, but you want to use a cheat? "I want to see if there's [sic] monsters where I'm teleporting." In other words, you want to play carelessly and not be at risk when doing so. The ENTIRE POINT of Hardcore is to play more cautiously and apply more skill to get where you want in the game. And yes, this does mean it takes more time.

Hardly anyone really plays the game anymore. It's all rush-rush-rush to whatever level the person wants in order to duel. And what's the advantage of Hardcore dueling over Softcore dueling? All anyone tells me when I ask this is.... [Blah-blah-blah, remainder of rant deleted.]

Eh, rant mode off. (I had a couple of paragraphs in the same vein but deleted them.) Whatever you find fun is fine with me as long as you don't ruin anyone else's play experience in the process. Remember that it's just a game, but the time invested developing a character and gathering equipment is real. Cheat in single player mode and in non-realm multiplayer; the realms were meant to be cheat-free.

John H

[mr. burns]

Originally posted by JMHammer:
So you play Hardcore, the entire point of which is to increase the difficulty, but you want to use a cheat? "I want to see if there's [sic] monsters where I'm teleporting." In other words, you want to play carelessly and not be at risk when doing so. The ENTIRE POINT of Hardcore is to play more cautiously and apply more skill to get where you want in the game. And yes, this does mean it takes more time.

Hardly anyone really plays the game anymore. It's all rush-rush-rush to whatever level the person wants in order to duel. And what's the advantage of Hardcore dueling over Softcore dueling? All anyone tells me when I ask this is.... [Blah-blah-blah, remainder of rant deleted.]

Eh, rant mode off. (I had a couple of paragraphs in the same vein but deleted them.) Whatever you find fun is fine with me as long as you don't ruin anyone else's play experience in the process. Remember that it's just a game, but the time invested developing a character and gathering equipment is real. Cheat in single player mode and in non-realm multiplayer; the realms were meant to be cheat-free.

John H

[Turnpike]

Originally posted by JMHammer:
So you play Hardcore, the entire point of which is to increase the difficulty, but you want to use a cheat? "I want to see if there's [sic] monsters where I'm teleporting." In other words, you want to play carelessly and not be at risk when doing so. The ENTIRE POINT of Hardcore is to play more cautiously and apply more skill to get where you want in the game. And yes, this does mean it takes more time.

Hardly anyone really plays the game anymore. It's all rush-rush-rush to whatever level the person wants in order to duel. And what's the advantage of Hardcore dueling over Softcore dueling? All anyone tells me when I ask this is.... [Blah-blah-blah, remainder of rant deleted.]

Eh, rant mode off. (I had a couple of paragraphs in the same vein but deleted them.) Whatever you find fun is fine with me as long as you don't ruin anyone else's play experience in the process. Remember that it's just a game, but the time invested developing a character and gathering equipment is real. Cheat in single player mode and in non-realm multiplayer; the realms were meant to be cheat-free.

John H

Thank you. I couldn't agree with you more... and I probably agree with those other two paragraphs, too.

I had always looked down on MF runs, too, just because they were repetetive and boring. Now that 1.10 has allowed us to MF in normal, varied areas, I decided to try my hand... unfortunately, the market is screwed up thanks to botters. And, with the advent of 1.10, Durance 2 is so huge that MFing there is pointless without maphack... they tried to make it so people wouldn't abuse the easy MF, but they only kept legit players from abusing it... cheaters can still abuse all they want and ruin our economy.

[phillryu]

That's one point of view, but you have to realize that the vast majority of players use maphack, and not having it has become a disadvantage rather than having it being an advantage. Would you still use a wooden tennis racquet when you can use racquets made out of titanium? I know that's not exactly the best analogy, but I don't see anything hugely wrong about doing it... or even wanting it.

[JMHammer]

Originally posted by phillryu:
That's one point of view, but you have to realize that the vast majority of players use maphack, and not having it has become a disadvantage rather than having it being an advantage. Would you still use a wooden tennis racquet when you can use racquets made out of titanium? I know that's not exactly the best analogy, but I don't see anything hugely wrong about doing it... or even wanting it.

That analogy is completely invalid. Titanium racquets are not against the rules of tennis. Map hack is against the rules of Diablo 2, both in terms of the rules of the game and the legal contract you agreed to in the EULA.

I don't care if you cheat, even if you do it on the realms, as long as you don't do it while playing with me or someone else who disapproves of cheating. How fast you level, or how much good gear you find, makes no difference to me because I don't care to either play with or trade with people unless I know they are cheat-free. So knock yourself out. I completely don't understand the cheater mentality but I am aware that it is very prevalent.

My younger sisters have, between them, five children who play all sorts of console video games. The first thing they do when they get a new game is call their friends or go online to get the cheats for the game. Then they play it in "god mode" or whatever. I don't think they've ever played a game straight. Again, what's the point of this? I don't get it and all they can tell me is, "It's no fun to play without the cheat codes." My only response is, "How could it possibly be fun WITH the cheat codes?" I mean, how is using god mode any different than watching the console in demo mode?

I recently gave a copy of Starcraft Battle Chest to my most mature (not oldest) nephew, Jeff. The first thing he did was look up the cheat codes in the little "guidebooks" that came in the bundle. A week later he asked if I wanted to play with him online (I live a few miles away). As soon as our first game started, I saw the chat text, "power overwhelming" (which grants "god mode") and then a whole bunch of others which give free resources, etc. About ten seconds later he quit out of the game and called me on the telephone. "Why don't the codes work?" "Because," I replied, "they're only applicable to single player. This is a competitive game. People play it professionaly, just as people play professional tennis. It's possible to cheat, but the codes don't work. And if anyone suspects you of cheating, they either won't play with you or will require you to use one of the anti-cheat peer-to-peer prorgams." He really didn't get it for a while and I don't have the patience to describe all the steps he took to eventually develop an appreciation for the game as a fair competition.

I used to play a lot of Age of Empires on GameRanger. I was pretty good and won my fair share. It shocked me that the other player would often, when his situation was looking bad, instead of surrenduring with honor or playing to the last building, would start entering cheat codes into the chat box. Of course, just as with Starcraft, these would not work in multiplayer. Even worse, if I joined another person's game more often than not the game host would have fog of war turned off. OMG! All those years I spent playing tabletop miniatures and other wargames and when computer games with fog of war became available, even hotseat games or just human vs computer matches, it was like a holy grail. Naturally, no fog of war in most RTS games takes away any chance of using tactics and devolves the game into just masses of troops vs other masses of troops.

Well, I don't know exactly what point I wanted to make when I started this. Again, if you want to cheat, go ahead. I don't understand how it's fun, but it's your right to do it. But I sincerely believe that by doing so you are depriving yourself of any opportunity to develop real skill with the game and, if you are playing with others who don't share your cheating mindset, you are also depriving them of the experience which they are expecting from their investment.

John H

[Turnpike]

For one thing, PvP in D2 is all but impossible for non-cheaters. Last I looked, you pretty much had to have HotO, Enigma, BotD, et cetera... Godly items. These items are intentionally imbalanced... they were put in because they, by all rights, should be nearly impossible to get.

unfortunately, it is near impossible to find people on b.net or elsewhere who have not cheated or traded with cheaters or for cheated items.

I've started pretty much only playing solo or with a few close friends I know from non-Internet land... we have fun actually completing all the quests and getting all the waypoints. No rushes or cheats, with the possible exception of maphack to find our way through Act 3's forests... Act 3's first half just isn't fun, so we don't feel bad about skipping it. It lets us play the rest of the game, when otherwise we'd just quit.

I remember when I used to cheat at games. I cheated pretty much all the way through both campaigns of Warcraft II... no god mode, because that took all the fun away, but I could type "glittering prizes" better than anyone I knew... and we all had lots of practice. It basically ruined the game for me.

I think the reason people cheat is because they don't have the concentration/skill/maturity to play the game the way it is meant to be played... it basically makes all games easier. Winning is more fun for people than losing, and they'd rather win every time than lose a few times before overcoming a decent challenge.

I think it says volumes about our culture. Man, we're lazy.


I found a game once, I forget what it was called, but it was basically a bunch of tiny stick figures running around from the top of the screen to the bottom. You were given a bunch of tools with which to kill them. That was the entire game. I think many people just wish for a version of that with better graphics, so they cheat.

[mr. burns]

all of this cheat discussion just from me inquiring about the most harmless and widely used third party D2 utility. i've never even used it so don't go thinking i'm somehow less skilled of a player just for asking about is availability. i'm a good player, and friendly and legit. if you guys want to get all up in a tizzy about hacks and cheats why don't you complain about tppk or wppk. those are straight up wrong and even level 90+ chars are victim to these attacks. a few people on the hccl community hav it but once you learn their account names it's easy to avoid them.

if you guys are so turned off by godlies like enigma and bots and power rushes, PLAY HARDCORE CLASSIC. that's the whole reason i started this thread, but everyone just started complaining. a lot of the things that turn people off about D2 expack aren't in classic. so give it a chance.

my chars are:
vanilla_ICY: 59 sorc
sticky_bud: 66 barb
uncle_fester: 62 necro

SEE YOU THERE