[Hawkeye_a]

Originally Posted by smacintush 

Whether they like it or not, they are not leading anymore. Sony and MicroSoft are in charge and they are taking gaming in the direction THEY want to.

Kinda like lord of the flies eh ?

Microsoft... "leading" ? .....they sold like a million more XBoxes than the GameCube, and the Gamecube probably beat the XBox in games/system.....and lets not forget revenue and profit.

Sony.... "leading" ? .... except that their controller in this primarily "interactive" medium, is always a generation behind.... you know who .

Competing on hardware is all well and good.... sorta like comparing the Dells to the HPs in the world. I find that chest-thumping-competition kinda amusing.... and then i think of an all-in-one computer, with worse specs, a funky controller and technically+artistically innovative software.

You have leaders and followers..... the leaders conjur up ways to use those clockcycles in immaginative new ways(the real art). the followers will just find a way to copy it and to do it faster and cheaper(the easy part).

Gears of War looks awesome.... if graphics does it for you, i think u'll be happy with the XBox360. necessety is the mother of invention....and if Nintendo needed to invent something new to survive..... just look at that gimmick they call the DS....27 million SOLD worldwide....quite a gimmick eh ?

[Jolt21]

for some reason, it never even passed my mind to get a DS. i dont seewhat all the hype about them is about. i watched some people play them while in line for my wii, and i couldn't care less about it. looked dumb.

[smacintush]

Originally Posted by Hawkeye_a 

Kinda like lord of the flies eh ?

Wouldn't know.

Microsoft... "leading" ? .....they sold like a million more XBoxes than the GameCube, and the Gamecube probably beat the XBox in games/system.

You may be right, I dunno. I DO know that if that is true you'd never be able to tell by shopping in my area. What good are all those titles if I can't find them to play them?

Sony.... "leading" ? .... except that their controller in this primarily "interactive" medium, is always a generation behind.... you know who .

They are leading because their customer base. I never meant to imply that they have done any real "innovating" I never liked the PS 1 or 2.

Competing on hardware is all well and good.... sorta like comparing the Dells to the HPs in the world. I find that chest-thumping-competition kinda amusing.... and then i think of an all-in-one computer, with worse specs, a funky controller and technically+artistically innovative software.

You have leaders and followers..... the leaders conjur up ways to use those clockcycles in immaginative new ways(the real art). the followers will just find a way to copy it and to do it faster and cheaper(the easy part).

Innovating is one thing, innovating on mediocre hardware is another. The improvement over the GC is pathetic in terms of graphics. Why should that be acceptable? Because they have a new controller? Like I said, we'll see in a year.

Gears of War looks awesome.... if graphics does it for you, i think u'll be happy with the XBox360. necessety is the mother of invention....and if Nintendo needed to invent something new to survive..... just look at that gimmick they call the DS....27 million SOLD worldwide....quite a gimmick eh ?

I never said anything about a gimmick, and who exactly was the DS competing against? The previous incarnations of the gameboy had already kicked the asses of everyone else BEFORE the DS came out. If their competition had been similar to the GC's competiton then things may have been different.

[Weezer]

Prediction: Within a year or two nintendo releases a patch to allow the Wii to do 720p. You better believe after microsoft patched the xbox to do 1080p, nintendo has been working behind the scenes to see what they can do with the hardware. If some PS2 games could pull off 1080i, I feel like nintendo will get the Wii doing atleast 720p

[Hawkeye_a]

Originally Posted by smacintush 

Innovating is one thing, innovating on mediocre hardware is another. The improvement over the GC is pathetic in terms of graphics. Why should that be acceptable? Because they have a new controller? Like I said, we'll see in a year.

Well of the two games i know of developed specifically for the Wii, Red Steel and Excite Truck...i know that Red Steel started off on the GameCube, with a relitavely short development cycle. Zelda Twilight Princess, has been a GameCube title for most of its development life...hence there will be no difference to that of a gamecube title....

like ive mentioned before Excite Truck is probably the only title developed speifically for the Wii on Wii hardware by Nintendo....and judging from it's lack of depth..it was probably rushed for launch.

Have you seen the videos for Super Mario Galaxy ? compare that to Super Mario Sunshine.... i see a vast difference in graphic ability demonstrated there (poly counts, textures, effects, shadows, reflections, bumps, etc).

And like...ive seen GoW..it looks amazing.....ive also seen Twilight Princess...it looks amazing as well.... both are different types of amazing...but at the end of the day neither are more amazing than the other. they both look good period....Nintendo did it with the GameCube's capabilities...Microsoft did it with the XB360's abilities....big deal. end product...amazing looking games.

Graphics are important, but in and of themselves...not a deal maker or breaker.... to me. And in all honesty....not to drag this debate on any further....i think PC games have the best graphics.

Cheers

[ort888]

Microsoft... "leading" ? .....they sold like a million more XBoxes than the GameCube, and the Gamecube probably beat the XBox in games/system.

The attach rates on the Cube were really low. The Xbox sold way more games then the Cube.

[zerostar]

Originally Posted by ort888 

The attach rates on the Cube were really low. The Xbox sold way more games then the Cube.

You have numbers to back that up, I have heard and remember seeing, the opposite.

[starman]

I called my local GS to get a Wii. Turns out they're saving them for Friday morning at 7.

[zerostar]

Yep Same here.. I will be there at 5 and see if I get lucky...

[Dakar²]

Anything to get idiots into the stores.

[Dark Helmet]

Even though nobody needs it some fanboys are still hoping the Wii will be upgraded to HD:
Game Informer Online

[zerostar]

Originally Posted by ort888 

The attach rates on the Cube were really low. The Xbox sold way more games then the Cube.

Only "newish" info I can find is:

Sony Computer Entertainment America Inc. sold 1.9 games with every PlayStation 2, and Nintendo Company Ltd. has sold 1.9 games with every GameCube to date.

I think keeping pace with the PS2 is not "really low" not in my book....

[starman]

Originally Posted by Dakar² 

Anything to get idiots into the stores.

Yeah, I know, but...HEY!

[zerostar]

Originally Posted by Dakar² 

Anything to get idiots into the stores.

thanks!

[icruise]

Originally Posted by smacintush 

Great, and how am I gonna play them first when the crappy rental places in this area don't have sh*t?

Well, you can always rent from online places like Gamefly. But personally (and I've said this before in other threads) I would not choose the Wii as my only console, just like I wouldn't have chosen the Gamecube as my only console. With the Gamecube, the main reason was simply that its game library was lacking. It had many stellar first-party games from Nintendo, but when you look at the third party games, you'll see that there are a LOT of them that came out on the PS2 and Xbox and not on the Gamecube. We don't know how the Wii will do yet. Maybe it really will attract a whole new group of casual gamers. If so, great. But as it is, the system's lackluster performance combined with the Nintendo's history with third-party games makes me a little worried.

And just for the record, I believe that the Wii's graphics will definitely get better as developers get used to the hardware and have more time to work on their titles without have to rush for the console launch. As has been stated already, some of the games in development do seem to look better (Super Mario Galaxy, etc). It's basically the same situation with the PS3 launch games, but even the crappy PS3 games look much better than PS2 games, while the Wii launch games seem stuck in Gamecube land, which makes me think that the improvements won't be huge.

[Dakar²]

It's a Black Friday comment, not a Nintendo user one.

You know just in case.

[zerostar]

Originally Posted by Dark Helmet 

Even though nobody needs it some fanboys are still hoping the Wii will be upgraded to HD:
Game Informer Online

A patch would be nice, for $25 I would add HD and DVD compatibility, would be nice for $30 you get component cables & HD/DVD... But I don't want to pay more than $30 for it as I really don't care that much about DVD and HD while nice isn't a big deal on my 36"

[smacintush]

Originally Posted by icruise 

Well, you can always rent from online places like Gamefly. But personally (and I've said this before in other threads) I would not choose the Wii as my only console, just like I wouldn't have chosen the Gamecube as my only console. With the Gamecube, the main reason was simply that its game library was lacking. It had many stellar first-party games from Nintendo, but when you look at the third party games, you'll see that there are a LOT of them that came out on the PS2 and Xbox and not on the Gamecube. We don't know how the Wii will do yet. Maybe it really will attract a whole new group of casual gamers. If so, great. But as it is, the system's lackluster performance combined with the Nintendo's history with third-party games makes me a little worried.

And just for the record, I believe that the Wii's graphics will definitely get better as developers get used to the hardware and have more time to work on their titles without have to rush for the console launch. As has been stated already, some of the games in development do seem to look better (Super Mario Galaxy, etc). It's basically the same situation with the PS3 launch games, but even the crappy PS3 games look much better than PS2 games, while the Wii launch games seem stuck in Gamecube land, which makes me think that the improvements won't be huge.

I guess I never thought of Gamefly…

Anyway, I agree with pretty much everything you said. I just want to be clear that I wasn't trying to say that the Wii's graphics suck or anything. My point was that for their next gen. console, the difference between the GC and the Wii should have been more significant.

[kman42]

Sorry to detract from the debate, but can someone give me a quick breakdown on graphics/TVs/cables? I'm a little behind the curve here as I just have a crappy plain Jane 27" (I think) TV being fed by a 7 year old A/V receiver. Is this what 480p refers to? What's the difference between progressive scan and interlaced? Are all new HDTVs 1080? All p or i? Just in reading these forums it seems like 720 was the bastard stepchild of HD and was quickly superseded by 1080. Is this correct?

Are S-video cables the same as composite? How do component cables differ? Are they the same as the optical cables I use for connecting my DVD player to my receiver? Finally, I've seen the absence of HDMI cables in the PS3 bandied about as if Sony had committed genocide. Are these cables required for 1080p/i?

Finally, would my Wii look better if I bought a new TV?

Sorry for the ignorant questions. I just haven't really been keeping up with the home theater technology for the last decade. Given the many varied formats, maybe this was a good thing. Have we settled on 1080 for a while? p or i?

kman

[Millennium]

Originally Posted by TETENAL 

Nintendo doesn't hold a patent on the aiming detection of the Wiimote?

Probably not, actually. The technology it uses has been around in arcade-based shooters for some time. Most modern arcade games which feature a gun on a cable, like the Time Crisis series, use it.

[goMac]

Originally Posted by Dark Helmet 

Even though nobody needs it some fanboys are still hoping the Wii will be upgraded to HD:
Game Informer Online

I already posted that in this thread.

[zerostar]

So if Gamestop is selling them at 7AM, it means they got them in today sometime, since no shipping on thursday.... that is pretty shitty just to get you in on the friday sale.

[icruise]

Originally Posted by kman42 

Sorry to detract from the debate, but can someone give me a quick breakdown on graphics/TVs/cables? I'm a little behind the curve here as I just have a crappy plain Jane 27" (I think) TV being fed by a 7 year old A/V receiver. Is this what 480p refers to?

Your TV would be 480i (interlaced). 480p is progressive scan, which is sharper with less flickering. Interlaced scan only refreshes every other line on your TV each cycle, while progressive scan refreshes the entire picture each cycle.

Are all new HDTVs 1080? All p or i? Just in reading these forums it seems like 720 was the bastard stepchild of HD and was quickly superseded by 1080. Is this correct?

Not all new HDTVs are 1080p capable, and I imagine that there are a number that still can only do 720p. 1080p/1080i are a higher resolution than 720p, but in games it tends to reduce the frame rate, so it's a trade-off. I run my Xbox 360 in 720p since it seemed to me that 1080i didn't really make the picture that much better but it did seem to reduce the frame rate (my TV isn't 1080p compatible).

Are S-video cables the same as composite? How do component cables differ?

They aren't the same, which is why they have different names. S-video is a bit better than standard composite video, but it's not as good as component, which separates the video signal into 3 separate cables.

Finally, I've seen the absence of HDMI cables in the PS3 bandied about as if Sony had committed genocide. Are these cables required for 1080p/i?

I'm not entirely sure, since my TV isn't compatible with HDMI and I haven't looked into it much, but I think it's just that HDMI is included in most high-end TVs nowadays and it's considered superior to a component connection. I think you can still do 1080p over component, although I'm not positive. You can definitely do 1080i.

Finally, would my Wii look better if I bought a new TV?

It might look a little worse, in the sense that a sharper display can reveal defects in the image, like jaggies.

[Dark Helmet]

A Zelda review for someone who finished it:

I Beat Zelda: Twilight Princess - Thoughts From the Other Side - Kotaku

Good game but the controls didn't make things better just different. The audio was the same old synth stuff probably because it was a cube port and they didn't have time to change it.

[itai195]

Originally Posted by icruise 

What difference do you see, exactly? I have component cables for my Xbox, GC and PS2 and while I can see that color quality is better with the component cables, they don't really totally rid of jaggies in my experience.

No they don't get rid of jaggies, that's true. I believe those are dependent more on the resolution of the source material and won't go away with a nicer cable. But the color quality is much improved and the image as a whole looks much sharper to my eyes using component cables. They don't take a SD signal and make it look HD, but they go a long way toward making it look less crappy on an HD screen!

Here is hoping Nintendo does release a 720p support update. That's been one of my main issues with the Wii.

[starman]

You can do 1080i with the standard PS2/PS3 component cables. I don't know about 1080p, but I THINK you need HDMI for that.

[kman42]

Originally Posted by icruise 

Your TV would be 480i (interlaced). 480p is progressive scan, which is sharper with less flickering. Interlaced scan only refreshes every other line on your TV each cycle, while progressive scan refreshes the entire picture each cycle.



Not all new HDTVs are 1080p capable, and I imagine that there are a number that still can only do 720p. 1080p/1080i are a higher resolution than 720p, but in games it tends to reduce the frame rate, so it's a trade-off. I run my Xbox 360 in 720p since it seemed to me that 1080i didn't really make the picture that much better but it did seem to reduce the frame rate (my TV isn't 1080p compatible).


They aren't the same, which is why they have different names. S-video is a bit better than standard composite video, but it's not as good as component, which separates the video signal into 3 separate cables.


I'm not entirely sure, since my TV isn't compatible with HDMI and I haven't looked into it much, but I think it's just that HDMI is included in most high-end TVs nowadays and it's considered superior to a component connection. I think you can still do 1080p over component, although I'm not positive. You can definitely do 1080i.


It might look a little worse, in the sense that a sharper display can reveal defects in the image, like jaggies.

Thank you!

[Jolt21]

i'm having madden withdrawls right now.

aarrrggghhh

[Dark Helmet]

Wii is having BC issues also?

Wii Having BC Issues? - Kotaku

[zerostar]

Well, there are reports it is working fine in other Wii's so probably a memory card issue.

[Calimus]

Originally Posted by Millennium 

Probably not, actually. The technology it uses has been around in arcade-based shooters for some time. Most modern arcade games which feature a gun on a cable, like the Time Crisis series, use it.

Those games use a totally different method than the Wii, they are watching the screen itself.

Light gun - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

The Wii remote doesn't look at the screen at all, it is watching the sensor bar which has 2 IR leds that it can use to judge distance from the TV(Can't do this with a light gun), where you are aiming, and rotation in relation to the sensor bar. Light guns can't have a moving pointer on the screen like the Wii Allows.

[icruise]

Originally Posted by Dark Helmet 

Wii is having BC issues also?

Wii Having BC Issues? - Kotaku

I don't think so. Backwards compatibility is one area where Nintendo seems to have its ducks in a row, but then again that's not so hard when you don't make a big shift in hardware.

It's interesting, because when you're playing a Gamecube game, the Wii thinks it is a Gamecube. For example, if you eject the Gamecube disc while playing, it tells you that the disc cover is open (something that obviously is impossible on the Wii). And you can't get back to the Wii menu without resetting the console.

[mathew_m]

HD would be nice but I think most people would rather have a price decrease. $250 isn't a lot for a new console but Nintendo nowadays is a 3-4 game system meaning you're buying it mostly for the first party titles. The best value on the market really is the Xbox360 considering that you can now download movies and tv shows.

With that said I'm hoping that developers make good use of the control scheme and don't just port games over with minor tweaks. I'm wondering though how much can really be done with the wii-mote and nunchuck...too bad they probably won't bring back a powerglove like controller. Having a dual-powerglove controller scheme would give you almost a virtual reality like interface. Have the powerglove work in conjunction with a foot pedal like controller for movement. With wireless you have a lot of options.

[icruise]

So has anyone downloaded any VC titles? Any impressions? Even though I know that it's questionable from a moral standpoint, I frankly have a problem with the idea of paying $5-$8 for games that I can play for free in emulation, so I think the only ones that I might possibly be interested in are the N64 games. I still have my N64 hooked up to my TV and I have most of the good games for the system, but I tried playing it a while ago and remembered how much I hate the N64 controller. Being able to use a Gamecube controller or the classic controller with these games, coupled with a possible improvement in their graphics (apparently Mario 64 looks better than it did on the N64) makes me interested in what they will release in the future.

Here's a rundown of the currently available titles:
Virtual Console Roundup: Rating Wii's Classics Collection from 1UP.com

I'll have to say, though, that I like Sony's approach with the PS1 game downloads they are selling. They are cheaper than Nintendo's games and will be playable on both the PS3 and PSP once Sony upgrades the PS3's software. That's really nice.

[TheMosco]

Well, after getting punched in the face wii boxing, this morning I ran into another issue. One of my friends was playing tennis and on a serve, threw the controller into the wall behind him on follow through. The strap broke and it got lodged into the wall...

[torsoboy]

Originally Posted by TheMosco 

Well, after getting punched in the face wii boxing, this morning I ran into another issue. One of my friends was playing tennis and on a serve, threw the controller into the wall behind him on follow through. The strap broke and it got lodged into the wall...

Wow, sounds like you guys were playing a little bit aggressively! Just to throw a controller through a wall would take quite a bit, but having the slowdown of the wrist strap being broken and then STILL going through a wall he must have been super serious about that serve!

[Hawkeye_a]

Fuuny sony/microsoft fanboy seems to find every little article dissing the wii.... i wonder .....is there anyone even playing a PS3 game ? (exgagaration of course ... im sure theyre playing games... probably not worth talking about tho lol)

More than one reviewer has said that Twilight Princess's controls feel more natural and dont feel tacked on, and the game is one of the (if not THE) biggest game world...and the game is probably one of the best ever made. since reviewers are "hardcore", i guess the "hardcore" aught to pay heed.

[DuckRacer1]

Originally Posted by Weezer 

Prediction: Within a year or two nintendo releases a patch to allow the Wii to do 720p. You better believe after microsoft patched the xbox to do 1080p, nintendo has been working behind the scenes to see what they can do with the hardware. If some PS2 games could pull off 1080i, I feel like nintendo will get the Wii doing atleast 720p

IIRC, only Gran Turismo 4 and Tourist Trophy had 1080i capability, and even still it wasn't true 1080i.

[goMac]

Originally Posted by icruise 

So has anyone downloaded any VC titles? Any impressions? Even though I know that it's questionable from a moral standpoint, I frankly have a problem with the idea of paying $5-$8 for games that I can play for free in emulation, so I think the only ones that I might possibly be interested in are the N64 games. I still have my N64 hooked up to my TV and I have most of the good games for the system, but I tried playing it a while ago and remembered how much I hate the N64 controller. Being able to use a Gamecube controller or the classic controller with these games, coupled with a possible improvement in their graphics (apparently Mario 64 looks better than it did on the N64) makes me interested in what they will release in the future.

Here's a rundown of the currently available titles:
Virtual Console Roundup: Rating Wii's Classics Collection from 1UP.com

I'll have to say, though, that I like Sony's approach with the PS1 game downloads they are selling. They are cheaper than Nintendo's games and will be playable on both the PS3 and PSP once Sony upgrades the PS3's software. That's really nice.

I downloaded Sonic and Zelda. They're ok. Just like the originals.

If it's emulation you're into, someone today figured out how to get an emulator working from the Wii's flash memory drive. I don't have a link on me, but you might be able to track that down.

[MaxPower2k3]

Originally Posted by starman 

You can do 1080i with the standard PS2/PS3 component cables. I don't know about 1080p, but I THINK you need HDMI for that.

It's possible. The 360 supports 1080p over Component and VGA. But I don't think I've ever seen a display that will accept 1080p over component, except maybe some projectors.

[Jawbone54]

I've downloaded Mario 64, and I love it. Nostalgia has taken over from time to time, but I definitely took advantage of my office being shut down Wed-Fri. I played it for several hours, and I remembered how revolutionary it was at the time.

[icruise]

Yeah, that's one of my all-time favorites. If I hadn't already played through it on the DS (again) I would get it.

[Hawkeye_a]

I havent played mario 64, but im planning on getting it when it comes out on VC. beleive it or not, i havent played a single mario game through to the end ever .

[starman]

Originally Posted by Hawkeye_a 

I havent played mario 64, but im planning on getting it when it comes out on VC. beleive it or not, i havent played a single mario game through to the end ever .

Not surprised

[Dark Helmet]

Originally Posted by Hawkeye_a 

I havent played mario 64, but im planning on getting it when it comes out on VC. beleive it or not, i havent played a single mario game through to the end ever .

That's weird. Even my cat has.

[Hawkeye_a]

cool cat

[Dark Helmet]

How it looks with component cables

Wii Hands-On: Hardware, Wii Channels, and Virtual Console - Features at GameSpot

[starman]

A noticable difference. I ordered a set now so that I don't have to wait later.

[Dark Helmet]

I called a store by my house and by blind luck they have 1 left that they are holding for me till tonight. It is gonna suck playing without component but I am still glad I found one.

[Gamoe]

Originally Posted by Dark Helmet 

I called a store by my house and by blind luck they have 1 left that they are holding for me till tonight. It is gonna suck playing without component but I am still glad I found one.

I haven't been able to find one at any of the regular local stores, so I ordered it like starman. They say it won't be available till the second week of December and it'll take a week or two to arrive (I picked the cheapest shipping option), so I suppose I'll have it by the end of December.

If I see it available before them in stores, I'll slap myself, but after the whole Wii supply thing, I'd rather not risk it. I bought a second Wii-mote a day or two after the launch, but I wasn't able to get an extra nunchuck and now I can't find any Wii controllers at the stores. Funny enough, my friend was able to buy an extra nunchuck, but not another remote.