[starman]

Originally Posted by wallinbl 

The sensor bar is about 1/2" deep, so you'd be hard pressed to find a TV you couldn't attach it to.

But isn't it a wire I'd have to hang off the TV....PERMANENTLY?

I realize the big N wants to do something different, but I don't think they thought this through.

[Dakar²]

I suspect I'll be picking up the GC version of Zelda. Whenever the hell that comes out.

Edit: There's no extra content on the Wii, correct?

[starman]

It's supposed to be out next week. I'm getting it also. I can't see how people say "I can't see playing this on anything but a Wii" when it was built as a GC game, but, whatever.

[jokell82]

Originally Posted by starman 

But isn't it a wire I'd have to hang off the TV....PERMANENTLY?

I realize the big N wants to do something different, but I don't think they thought this through.

If you're so concerned about it, build your own sensor bar with a 9v battery and a couple of IR LEDs. It's not hard, and then you don't have any wires at all.

[Dakar²]

Originally Posted by starman 

It's supposed to be out next week. I'm getting it also. I can't see how people say "I can't see playing this on anything but a Wii" when it was built as a GC game, but, whatever.

I think I'll put it on my Christmas list. I'm still having way too much fun with Hitman.

[Millennium]

Originally Posted by Dakar² 

Edit: There's no extra content on the Wii, correct?

As far as anyone knows, there's no extra content. However, the levels in the Wii version were flipped left-to-right to make Link right-handed; the GameCube presents the levels the way they were originally designed and Link is left-handed.

Personally, I don't know why they bothered to flip it for the Wii. The game plays perfectly well even if Link doesn't have the same dominant hand as you. Trust me on this; I play left-handed on the Wii and I've had no trouble at all. Nintendo was worrying over nothing.

[Millennium]

Originally Posted by starman 

But isn't it a wire I'd have to hang off the TV....PERMANENTLY?

Several people have already hacked their sensor bars to go wireless, and third parties are working on official wireless bars. One enterprising person just put a pair of identical candles on top of his TV, and that worked too.

[Jolt21]

Originally Posted by Millennium 

Several people have already hacked their sensor bars to go wireless, and third parties are working on official wireless bars. One enterprising person just put a pair of identical candles on top of his TV, and that worked too.

links to said hacks? and candles?! how does the bar work? very interested in the technology behind it...

[Jolt21]

dam all you zelda people. i'm still stuck on madden. haven't even started up zelda yet.

[starman]

Another....

Errant Wiimote claims second TV's life - Engadget

[Dakar²]

Originally Posted by Millennium 

As far as anyone knows, there's no extra content. However, the levels in the Wii version were flipped left-to-right to make Link right-handed; the GameCube presents the levels the way they were originally designed and Link is left-handed.

I really need to screw around with one. Hopefully my local walmart has one on display.

Originally Posted by Millennium 

Trust me on this; I play left-handed on the Wii and I've had no trouble at all.

Lies, all lies!

[pra9ab0y]

The wii is ok but I prefer the PS3 and XBOX 360

[Millennium]

Originally Posted by Jolt21 

links to said hacks? and candles?! how does the bar work? very interested in the technology behind it...

I'll have to go back and dig out the links for the hacks, but I'll see what I can do later today.

Despite the name, the sensor bar doesn't actually have any sensors in it. It's an emitter: five infrared LEDs on each end of the bar. You can see them if you look at the bar through a digital camera. Cell phone cameras tend to work great for this, because the IR filtering is so cheap that lots of IR light gets through. In any case, because the sensor bar is an emitter, any two IR sources of the right strength and distance apart will work perfectly, and even sources of the wrong strength or distance will work to some degree. This is why the two-candle trick works: candle flames produce a lot of IR light.

The actual sensor is in the Wiimote. The actual length of the sensor bar is known and hard-coded into the Wiimote, so it can use this information, plus the intensity of the infrared beam it senses from the bar, to determine how far it is from the TV. It then uses its tilt sensors to figure out what angle it's being held at, and with this information it can figure out exactly where it's pointed.

The IR lights in the sensor bar are almost always on as long as the Wii is on. The only exception seen thus far is when you're calibrating the Wiimote: during this process the lights blink on and off in time to the blinking of the onscreen targets. It's unknown whether this blinking is actually necessary, or if it's just there to make it easier for people to see the targets onscreen.

[zerostar]

More info on the Wii mote from here:
IGN Boards - Wii FAQs - Update 09/17/2006 - SD Cards Info - New Stuff Added at the Bottom

How does the Wii controller work?
Probably the most well known feature, the Wii has sevral impressive methods of gathering input.

A. Triaxial accelerometer.
By placing two accelerometers at opposing 90 degree angles, the input they provide can be used to track motion in 3d space. Unfortunately, they can not accurately track rotation, and dual axis accelerometers are often accompanied by gyroscopes for accurate rotational input. However, Nintendo isn't using a dual axial accelerometer, they are using a trixial accelerometer. Unfortunately, we have no experience with triaxial accelerometers, but seeing as Nintendo has made no mention of the remote's containing gyroscopes, we can only assume they are performing most impressively. These accelerometers are contained within the remote, as well as the Nunchaku attachment.

B. Sensor bar.
The triaxial accelerometers are highly accurate, but they only know how much and in what direction they have moved, not where they are, which would require the developer to find some way of getting the user to tell the device where it is,(Calibration) for more intricate interaction.
The sensor bar, uses a set of eight LED's (much to my surprise, apparently, Jim Merrick didn't quite understand how the sensor bar worked when he let his mouth run in an IGN article. "Uses blue tooth to trilaterate position", oh well, Public representatives aren't engineers, and these things happen).

Now, these IR LED's are picked up by an optical sensor at the end of the Wii remote. This is used to determine the distance to the remote. This information alone is more or less useless, but combined with the information in the remote, (angle) the Wii can establish an angle, and a distance, from the remote, to the led. That is eight points, with 8 distances. But accurate trilateration requires the known points not be in a single plane, or line. But this is the beauty of the sensor bar accelerometer combo.

If you have a line, and you know the angle, and distance of the line, you can intersect that line with a generated perpendicular line, of any assigned length. This would create a right triangle, the vertex being the end of the generated line, and having 2 known sides, the unknown side being the hypotenuse. A^2+b^2=c^2. We now have a distance to the generated point. This process can be duplicated an infinite amount of times (most probably well over 30 times a second.), as long as the Wii remote sensor can see the led. All those generated points can practically be described as, well, a field of points. Making accurate trilateration pretty easy, as long as one led from each side isn't blocked from view. Fortunately, even with the sensor bar hidden from view, all a developer needs to do is feed the last acquired co-ordinates to the accelerometers, this should provide more than accurate compensation until the line of sight is restored. Nintendo's E3 sensor bar was huge, and as a result, the remote would have trouble acquiring input from the sensor bar. in order to acquire distance, the Wii remote would have to be far enough away to acquire an led on each side, or point the remote at the sensor bar. As everyone has seen, Nintendo has seriously shrunk the size of the sensor bar since.

I found that interesting...

[MaxPower2k3]

Millennium explained it, but here's a link to the candle thing:

Joystiq video: Candles can replace Wii sensor bar - Joystiq

Not only does it replace the sensor bar, it provides mood lighting as well!

[icruise]

About the sensor bar -- I was really surprised how small it was. It's also the exact colors of my TV so it blends in perfectly. But since it's just two sets of IR-emitting LEDs, it's pretty easy to come up with an alternative, and it wouldn't surprise me if third-party versions showed up soon. One guy showed that you could even use two ordinary remote controls with their buttons depressed (although this didn't seem to work as well as the actual bar).

[Chuckit]

Originally Posted by Dakar² 

I suspect I'll be picking up the GC version of Zelda. Whenever the hell that comes out.

Edit: There's no extra content on the Wii, correct?

I heard that Midna isn't in the GameCube version, but I could have been misinformed.

[goMac]

Originally Posted by Dakar² 

Edit: There's no extra content on the Wii, correct?

There is. Nothing major though.

[Dakar²]

Ok. Thanks, guys.

[goMac]

Originally Posted by Chuckit 

I heard that Midna isn't in the GameCube version, but I could have been misinformed.

I don't think that's true. It would be a sad, storyless game without Midna.

Originally Posted by starman

It's supposed to be out next week. I'm getting it also. I can't see how people say "I can't see playing this on anything but a Wii" when it was built as a GC game, but, whatever.

A lot of the weapons are designed for the Wiimote. Not to say they couldn't be used with a Gamecube controller, but they work much better with a Wiimote.

Originally Posted by Millennium

Trust me on this; I play left-handed on the Wii and I've had no trouble at all. Nintendo was worrying over nothing.

My girlfriend is left handed, and the only trouble we've had is on Raving Rabbids. The rest of the games are either fine or have a left handed mode.

[starman]

# Hold the Wii Remote firmly and do not let go. Even while wearing the wrist strap, make sure you don't let go of the Wii Remote during game play and do not use excessive motion. For example, in Wii Sports bowling, the proper way to let go of the ball while bowling is to release the "B" button on the Wii Remote—DO NOT LET GO OF THE Wii REMOTE ITSELF. If you are having so much fun that you start perspiring, take a moment to dry your hands. If you use excessive motion and let go of the Wii Remote, the wrist strap may break and you could lose control of the Wii Remote. This could injure people nearby or cause damage to other objects.

| Nintendo - Customer Service | Wii

[wallinbl]

Originally Posted by starman 

Another....

Errant Wiimote claims second TV's life - Engadget

Hard to believe anyone did that in the bowling game.

[TETENAL]

It's outrageous that Nintendo cuts costs at the wrist strap when it is foreseeable that the remotes are going to be thrown. The wrist strap is a safety part that must be 100% reliable, not some cheap pseudo thing.

[wallinbl]

Originally Posted by TETENAL 

It's outrageous that Nintendo cuts costs at the wrist strap when it is foreseeable that the remotes are going to be thrown. The wrist strap is a safety part that must be 100% reliable, not some cheap pseudo thing.

I don't think it was their intention for anyone to let go of it. Your camera has a wrist strap as well, but you're not supposed to let go of it, either. I'm surprised at the number of people saying that they have thrown it.

(I'm not saying that Nintendo is blameless here - I'm sure they tested the thing thoroughly and surely they must have observed that people were letting go of them).

Get a grip, people! (sorry)

[starman]

Originally Posted by wallinbl 

I don't think it was their intention for anyone to let go of it.

I said MONTHS ago it would happen. Nintendo talks about how you're supposed to use the Wiimote as if you were using the real thing. Well, you let go of a bowling ball. You let go of a football. People that play these sports use gloves of some kind specifically so this DOESN'T happen.

[Adam Betts]

Originally Posted by Dakar² 

There's no extra content on the Wii, correct?

No, but Widescreen mode is only available on Wii version.

Originally Posted by Chuckit 

I heard that Midna isn't in the GameCube version, but I could have been misinformed.

I think you meant fairy (the cursor one), they did say there will be no fairy in GC version.

[Dakar²]

Originally Posted by Adam Betts 

No, but Widescreen mode is only available on Wii version.

Yeah, that's about the only thing I do know. Not applicable in my case, however.

[goMac]

Originally Posted by Adam Betts 

No, but Widescreen mode is only available on Wii version.

There is a mini game I have played which I think is going to be Wii specific, without saying anything more.

[Dark Helmet]

Ok here are my thoughts on Zelda after 11 hours of play and the end of the second dungeon.

Overall it is a good game BUT the presentation feels very dated and it is to "familular" to the last couple Zeldas.

When I say dated I don't mean the graphics. I mean the games presentation just feels very gamecube. The music is good but it is still synth sounding not actual music scores like PS2/Xbox have. The most frustrating to me though is the text boxes for conversations. It doesn't make things better in any regard and really takes me out of the immersiveness of this world they are trying to draw me into. Nintendo fans say "I don't want to watch cutscene movies when I play games" but you are doing just that in Zelda the difference is you still sit through 3-5 minute scenes you just can't walk away and get a drink you have to sit and pound the A button while you read. It feels N64ish watching 2 people standing stiff yelling at one another with their lips moving but no sound coming out. I don't get a personality from them and as a result I don't worry if they need rescuing etc.

Visuals:
The art direction is great but as I don't even have the component cables yet the game is a total blur. It is the only game I have where I sit and squint the whole time I play and it makes it hard to spot archers in the distance. I hope that the better cables if they ever ship will make things sharper. Also the graphics are gamecube quality and not a shred better. That is expected considering the cube version looks exactly the same.

Gameplay:
The gamespot review that said it is exactly like other Zelda games was bang on even though GoMac disagrees.
If you have played the last 2 Zelda's you know what to expect and exacty what to do.

For example:
You start off as as a young boy who doesn't know he is "Special" in a village. Then you spend the next while talking to everyone standing around in the village to find out your talents, get a sword, shield and learn how to use em. After that you need to head of to the first dungeon to set the stage of how many pieces of whatever you need to collect to save the world. You know you will have to earn your method of transport, you know you have 9 dungeons ahead of you, you know when you get a new weapon you have to beat the first boss you encounter using it.

The thing is I am not describing this new Zelda but OoT, WW AND TP. It is the same thing for all 3 games so the second I turned on the game I knew what to do, what I needed and then where to go. Most people buying this game are not new to the series so some may like the familiarity of it while others are sick of it. I didn't know I was sick of it until TP.

The first 2 hours are very boring as you have to do what I mentioned above running around being lost in a village and forest, text bubbles talking to people, saving cats, being lost, etc. I really liked the way the SNES Zelda started with a bang as it started with a thunderstorm and a rescue. Not looking for a boy who made you a fishing rod but "can't give it to you until tomorrow".

The game doesn't re-invent anything or mix things up. You still crawl through holes, step on switches, bomb walls, boomerang distant objects, fish, get gems, ride a horse across the land. The only new thing SO FAR is combat on horseback (cool though) and when I turned into a wolf which is fun but still feels like Majora's mask. Same world, same Death mountain, Gorgons, castles, same same same.

The reason I mention it is because I am breezing through the game as from playing all the others you know the sequence of events you need to follow. Other than falling down a pit I haven't died once nor been stumped at a puzzle. Also the attitude of "Sony and MS don't innovate only give it better graphics" really stands out in this game as it totally feels like it came out 2 years after OoT with new controls. Still fun, but too familiar.

Controls:
For the first few hours you don't make much use of the Wiimote as you don't have your bow or boomerang yet. The controls work ok and do make it more interesting and modern. For me though I get a very noticeable lag in the IR aiming though that doesn't happen as much in the Wii menu. If I move the target/remote left-right it feels more like spraying a water hose than a laser. also it is true that you do not point at the screen but the IR bar. Yes I configured the controller within the game properly. You might not notice it as much on a small TV but on a 50 is is very noticeable.

Personally i much preferred the style and setting of WW. The cell shading made the lack of polygons not matter and the water gave us a new setting and was fun getting around. If you hated WW and loved OoT than TP is for you.

Don't get me wrong it is a good game, story is interesting, charater design is great, the game is LOOONG. I'm just frustrated by the old feeling of it that luckily the new controls partly distract you from. If you play this game on the Cube you will feel like you are in 2002.

I hope I get those component cables soon so I don't finish the game before they come!

Hopefully the rest of the game comes up with some more surprises to make it harder.

[Gossamer]

Originally Posted by wallinbl 

Hard to believe anyone did that in the bowling game.

Have you played it? I have, and I'm not surprised at all. I have no doubt I could have done some damage as hard as I was flinging the ball.

[Chuckit]

Originally Posted by Adam Betts 

I think you meant fairy (the cursor one), they did say there will be no fairy in GC version.

Ah, that must have been what they meant. Should have figured that out. I thought it sounded strange if Midna was out.

[Dark Helmet]

Originally Posted by Chuckit 

Ah, that must have been what they meant. Should have figured that out. I thought it sounded strange if Midna was out.

How in the world could you still play the game is Midna wasn't in it?

They must mean the fairy as it is just the marker for the Wiimote.

[zerostar]

Originally Posted by Dark Helmet 

Ok here are my thoughts on Zelda after 9.5 hours of play and close to the end of the second dungeon

Thanks for the review. Let us know how it is when you get your cables, hopefully mine are here soon, they said they were shipping this week.

p.s. I heard the Wii shop is updating, so possibly new VC games!

[Calimus]

Got a Wii yesterday(Last one at my local Fred Meyer), and loving it so far. They were sold out of Zelda, so I got Rayman, since I figure the mini game genre will be the funnest to play with while trying out the new control scheme. Overall, the most playtime in our household has been spent in bowling, and the music mini game in Rayman.

[icruise]

My god, I think the world is coming to an end. I pretty much agree with everything SWG just said...

[goMac]

Originally Posted by Dark Helmet 

The gamespot review that said it is exactly like other Zelda games was bang on even though GoMac disagrees.

I'd hold that thought until after the end of the 3rd dungeon.

[Dark Helmet]

Originally Posted by icruise 

My god, I think the world is coming to an end. I pretty much agree with everything SWG just said...

Well well well....

[Dark Helmet]

Originally Posted by goMac 

I'd hold that thought until after the end of the 3rd dungeon.

Fine, I hope you are right. All I can tell you is the first 10 hours is just like every other Zelda which is not a good way to start.

[starman]

But is it worth $250? Should I hold off for the GC version or still get a Wii for this game?

[zerostar]

Well looking at Pokemon (I know I know) and Mario Galaxy I'm thinking they were held back due to zelda, they look much much better than Zelda and perhaps that would have distracted from "The premier launch title" oh well, TP still looks fun, and I can't wait (checking stores every day this wiik)

[starman]

^^ /groan

[Dark Helmet]

Originally Posted by starman 

But is it worth $250? Should I hold off for the GC version or still get a Wii for this game?

Err not sure yet. Remember it is $250 plus a component cable at $30 plus another remote $40 AND a SD card if you don't have it already. So with that set up and Zelda you are already at over $350. But keep in mind you could sell your cube for say $40-$50 but you need to have a GC controller.

Right now I wouldn't recommend it as other than Zelda you won't spend 100 hours with Sports or Raving Rabbits.

Even in the long run Mario Galaxies could end up another Super Mario sunshine and metroid looks like it could play exactly like the last 2 and Metroid 2 turned me off already as it was just like the first.

It depends on if you like hard core games and Zelda alone is worth the investment. Keep in mind other than Zelda that took 3+ years to make there are no other hard core games coming for Wii. If so it will probably be a couple years. How big of a Zelda fan are you?

If you want some quick pick up and go games for the kids it is good as my sister is getting a bigger kick out of the Wii than Mii. They definitely don't have lasting appeal though.

[zerostar]

Originally Posted by starman 

^^ /groan

Groan at how shitty they still look or my conspiracy theory? haha

[Dark Helmet]

Originally Posted by zerostar 

Well looking at Pokemon (I know I know) and Mario Galaxy I'm thinking they were held back due to zelda, they look much much better than Zelda and perhaps that would have distracted from "The premier launch title" oh well, TP still looks fun, and I can't wait (checking stores every day this wiik)

Well it is no secret that Zelda was a GC title and as we all thought it was moved to Wii for launch. Also since it looks and sounds just like the Wii means the Wii version isn't using all its power nor the storage on the disk.

SMS look ok but still rather bla. Remember Mario Sunshine came out much later than the Cube launch but it was absolutely horrible looking and poorly designed. I get the feeling that MG will look ok but still not use half the capabilities of the hardware. Nintendo doesn't seem to care as it will sell either way.

[zerostar]

Originally Posted by Dark Helmet 

Err not sure yet. Remember it is $250 plus a component cable at $30 plus another remote $40 AND a SD card if you don't have it already.

Uhh, you don't NEED a component cable, but if you do they are $6.75 + shipping online, you will get them for cheap in a few weeks so its more of a wait thing if you don't want to shell out $30 now.

The other remote + SD card are not required to play the game, so why mention them just for Zelda?

[zerostar]

Originally Posted by Dark Helmet 

Remember Mario Sunshine came out much later than the Cube launch but it was absolutely horrible looking and poorly designed. I get the feeling that MG will look ok but still not use half the capabilities of the hardware.

SMS was the WORST mario I ever played, sold it on ebay after a few days. Very disappointed and I hope the do us right this time.

[goMac]

Originally Posted by starman 

But is it worth $250? Should I hold off for the GC version or still get a Wii for this game?

Eh. If you plan on getting Zelda alone, probably not. Honestly, the boss battles work better with the Wiimote, but you can do it without the Wiimote probably.

That said, over the weekend I had two different groups both play party games on the Wii (Raving Rabbids and Monkey Ball), and they had a blast. If you plan on using the Wii for things other than Zelda it's worth it. In both groups, everyone wanted to go buy a Wii afterwards.

[goMac]

Originally Posted by zerostar 

The other remote + SD card are not required to play the game, so why mention them just for Zelda?

I think SWG thinks you need a SD card to save your game, which isn't true. The Wii has built in memory.

[Dark Helmet]

Originally Posted by zerostar 

Uhh, you don't NEED a component cable, but if you do they are $6.75 + shipping online, you will get them for cheap in a few weeks so its more of a wait thing if you don't want to shell out $30 now.

The other remote + SD card are not required to play the game, so why mention them just for Zelda?

Uh yes you do NEED the component cables for a big TV like Starman and I have. I say need because without you can hardly see what is shooting at you.

You are right you don't need another remote or an SD card but you think Starman will come home to kids with a Wii and one remote and things will go well?

Oh and in my case I did NEED the SD card as my Wii has 2 defects and unless I want to lose my 10 hours of Zelda play I had to spend $30 to get a SD card to back it up.

So in my case it was $250 + $25 + $50 just to play Zelda. If that is worth it for you go nuts.

[Dakar²]

Originally Posted by goMac 

Honestly, the boss battles work better with the Wiimote, but you can do it without the Wiimote probably.

This is why I'm most curious to try it out. I have the feeling after a day at work I'm not going to feel like coming home and swinging my arm around.