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Gamoe · Nov 27, 2006, 05:24 PM

Well, I finally decided to go out and buy two Nintendo Wavebird controllers and a few GameCube games. So far I've gotten StarFox: Assault, Animal Crossing and Paper Mario, all of them for $15-20 each. Though I wasn't sure before, once I put in StarFox and started to play with my friend, I was glad I decided to go this route. We had a lot of fun running and flying around in versus mode in StarFox.

And so far, all of the VC games seem to be playable with the GameCube controllers. In fact, reading more closely into the VC controller issue, I don't think Nintendo meant to discount the GameCube controllers for VC games, but rather emphasize the Classic controller instead.

fhoubi · Nov 27, 2006, 05:36 PM

Originally Posted by Dark Helmet

...make sure there are no CD's or glasses on the coffee table that makes the wiimote go apeshit.

Wauw... I have a heavy square 48" glass table between my couch and my smallish 24" tv. Any thoughts?

Dark Helmet · Nov 27, 2006, 05:41 PM

Originally Posted by fhoubi

Wauw... I have a heavy square 48" glass table between my couch and my smallish 24" tv. Any thoughts?

You might be asking for trouble as even a DVD on my coffee tables was causing reflections for the IR.

goMac · Nov 27, 2006, 05:58 PM

Originally Posted by fhoubi

Wauw... I have a heavy square 48" glass table between my couch and my smallish 24" tv. Any thoughts?

I had a glass table between where I played and the TV and had no problems. The only problem I ever had was sunlight.

Dark Helmet · Nov 27, 2006, 06:01 PM

Poll: Wii Remote Strap Has 24 Percent Fail Rate? - Kotaku

icruise · Nov 27, 2006, 06:24 PM

LOL. How does a 6% break rate equal a 24% failure rate? The 24% thing is referring to the number of remotes that fell from people's hands.

Calimus · Nov 27, 2006, 06:35 PM

Originally Posted by Dark Helmet

The sensor bar shouldn't be IR as it is inaccurate and prone to interference.

I'm not familiar with any other technology that can sense distance, orientation, and reckoning in the way the Wiimote does without using IR? RF couldn't give the same pointer functionality that is possible with the Wii.

I'll agree that it's not 100% flawless, but I had to play with my setup, do some adjusting, and now it seems to work just fine even looking at the tv diagonally and from different chairs in the room. As for the lag, I have a 32 inch tv, and I attached a laser pointer to the Wiimote. Moving side to side, I didn't notice any lag between the laser spot on the Wii Cursor(moving from side to side across the width of the screen.

Of course the cursor doesn't line up with where the laser pointer is, but the Wiimote isn't supposed to aim like a gun. It is supposed to function like a mouse where you are not aiming directly, but simply watch the screen and moving your hand accordingly.

Dark Helmet · Nov 27, 2006, 06:42 PM

Originally Posted by Calimus

I'm not familiar with any other technology that can sense distance, orientation, and reckoning in the way the Wiimote does without using IR? RF couldn't give the same pointer functionality that is possible with the Wii.

Somebody here gave a solution using 3 sensors and triangulation a while ago.

Hawkeye_a · Nov 27, 2006, 06:45 PM

Originally Posted by Dark Helmet

If I move the target/remote left-right it feels more like spraying a water hose than a laser.

Now that is what i am worried about with the Wii. I will be trying it out once demos are up and running here in Oz before i get my Wii.... but if thats how it plays out, i wont get one.

Calimus · Nov 27, 2006, 06:56 PM

Originally Posted by Dark Helmet

Somebody here gave a solution using 3 sensors and triangulation a while ago.

I guess that could work, but that's getting dangerously close to that god aweful thing you had to put on your tv with the powerglove.

For those that don't remember, or never saw it, it was 3 3x3 inch squares, connected by plastic tubing so that it formed a big "L" shape that you hung on your tv.

For Triangulation, wouldn't you have to know the relative position of each of the 3 sensors to each other? If they were attached to each other, then they would be too close to each other for accurate measurements, or the sensor device would need to be a large "L" or triangle. That, or perhaps some sort of calibration could get around the issue if they were just little boxes that you placed separately. An interesting solution if it could work.

Calimus · Nov 27, 2006, 06:58 PM

Originally Posted by Hawkeye_a

Now that is what i am worried about with the Wii. I will be trying it out once demos are up and running here in Oz before i get my Wii.... but if thats how it plays out, i wont get one.

Maybe I'm just not seeing it, but there is even a mini game in Rayman Raving Rabbits very similar to his example (spraying liquid with a hose, moving the hose left to right) and it seemed very natural and responsive. I'll have to play again tonight when I get home and scrutinize a little closer.

Dark Helmet · Nov 27, 2006, 06:59 PM

Originally Posted by Hawkeye_a

Now that is what i am worried about with the Wii. I will be trying it out once demos are up and running here in Oz before i get my Wii.... but if thats how it plays out, i wont get one.

Be sure to try out games that use the IR and not just motion like excite truck.

Also if you are standing infront of a kiosk with small screen you may not notice it.

Dark Helmet · Nov 27, 2006, 07:00 PM

Originally Posted by Calimus

Maybe I'm just not seeing it, but there is even a mini game in Rayman Raving Rabbits very similar to his example (spraying liquid with a hose, moving the hose left to right) and it seemed very natural and responsive. I'll have to play again tonight when I get home and scrutinize a little closer.

Well in that case a lag is normal, no?

goMac · Nov 27, 2006, 07:03 PM

Originally Posted by Dark Helmet

Well in that case a lag is normal, no?

I know the mini game he's talking about and no, no lag is normal under this game. There is no reason that game should lag.

Dark Helmet · Nov 27, 2006, 07:05 PM

Originally Posted by goMac

I know the mini game he's talking about and no, no lag is normal under this game. There is no reason that game should lag.

What I mean is if you are spraying a hose in the game wouldn't it feel normal that the water trails behind your movements as the water isn't stiff.

goMac · Nov 27, 2006, 07:10 PM

Originally Posted by Dark Helmet

What I mean is if you are spraying a hose in the game wouldn't it feel normal that the water trails behind your movements as the water isn't stiff.

You can see the entire spray and watch the spray move with your controller, lag free. So while there is a bit of lag on the end of the spray, you can see the beginning of the arc move with you.

icruise · Nov 27, 2006, 07:31 PM

There's definite lag between your movements and the onscreen cursor. It varies from game to game. Red Steel may be the worst of the three I've tried, but it's there in Zelda to some degree. I'm on a 50" HDTV, which may make a difference. It just doesn't feel that responsive. Setting the sensitivity in Red Steel to "medium" did improve matters a bit (at least turning wasn't glacial anymore) but it's still there.

Chuckit · Nov 27, 2006, 07:34 PM

Originally Posted by goMac

You can see the entire spray and watch the spray move with your controller, lag free. So while there is a bit of lag on the end of the spray, you can see the beginning of the arc move with you.

I think the hose thing was just a metaphor when SWG said it…

wallinbl · Nov 27, 2006, 07:51 PM

Originally Posted by Gossamer

Have you played it? I have, and I'm not surprised at all. I have no doubt I could have done some damage as hard as I was flinging the ball.

There seems to be an upper limit to how fast the ball will go, and there doesn't appear to be an advantage to swinging that hard.

ink · Nov 27, 2006, 07:55 PM

Originally Posted by zerostar

Great game! I won't go into details as this is the Wii thread but I will echo your comments.

But don't you agree that this title would be much better with the Wii remote? That was my point. Zelda TP was ported as a GCN game, and the gestures were bolted on. Okami seems to be a game begging for just such an interface, but stuck on the akward dual-shock controller.

Jawbone54 · Nov 27, 2006, 08:02 PM

I finally got Zelda: TP. I'm late to the show, but at least later tonight I'll be able to share my impressions.

Here's something I wanted to add really quick about Madden for Wii. I like it. I really do, BUT after a week of messing around with it, I've discovered that it is definitely not my preferred method of playing sports games. It's a novel idea, and one that might just not be fully developed yet, but I'm not totally sold on this first outing. I'll definitely give future sports games a chance, but I'm already considering trading Madden in.

This isn't going to make me want to take back my Wii, considering that I didn't really buy it for the sports games, but it definitely will keep me from getting my sports game fix if things don't improve. I guess we'll just have to see.

As for now, I'm going to delve into TP.

wallinbl · Nov 27, 2006, 08:38 PM

Originally Posted by Chuckit

I think the hose thing was just a metaphor when SWG said it…

If he has a bit of a lag when holding his hose, perhaps he should see a doctor. It happens to lots of guys and is nothing to be embarrassed about.

Chuckit · Nov 27, 2006, 08:41 PM

Originally Posted by wallinbl

If he has a bit of a lag when holding his hose, perhaps he should see a doctor. It happens to lots of guys and is nothing to be embarrassed about.

No, it's not when holding his hose, it's when playing with his Wii.

goMac · Nov 27, 2006, 08:49 PM

Minor Zelda Spoiler that might be of interest: The temple of time is back, but it has a surprising role in the game.

Millennium · Nov 27, 2006, 09:04 PM

Originally Posted by ink

But don't you agree that this title would be much better with the Wii remote? That was my point. Zelda TP was ported as a GCN game, and the gestures were bolted on. Okami seems to be a game begging for just such an interface, but stuck on the akward dual-shock controller.

Okami on the Wii would frickin rock, but the odds of it ever happenning are basically nil. Clover, the studio that made it, has been shut down by Capcom.

Millennium · Nov 27, 2006, 09:11 PM

Originally Posted by Dark Helmet

Somebody here gave a solution using 3 sensors and triangulation a while ago.

That was me. I later discovered that it wouldn't have worked, and I posted to explain that. Here's the basics again.

Basically, the wavelength of radio is too long to position with the sort of accuracy that a video-game controller needs. GPS, for example, only gets to within a meter or two of accuracy: that's good enough for cartography but not good enough for controllers. To get accuracy to within a centimeter or so, you need to go further up the electromagnetic spectrum, past radio and past even microwave to -surprise, surprise- infrared light.

Once you're already in the infrared part of the electromagnetic spectrum, you can use better methods than standard radio-style antennas. Nintendo uses one of these.

Dark Helmet · Nov 27, 2006, 09:12 PM

OMG I tried that laser pointer on the end of the wii trick...

The acuraccy and lag is so bad it is almost laughable. I'm almost depressed now. The hard core FPS crowed will not be down with this as they find laser mice to inacurate.

So much for metroid being declaired "the golden standard for FPS"

goMac · Nov 27, 2006, 09:42 PM

Originally Posted by Dark Helmet

OMG I tried that laser pointer on the end of the wii trick...

The acuraccy and lag is so bad it is almost laughable. I'm almost depressed now. The hard core FPS crowed will not be down with this as they find laser mice to inacurate.

So much for metroid being declaired "the golden standard for FPS"

Are you seriously going to try and argue a controller is more accurate?

Besides, you've already listed all the interference you have. I've had no problem targeting with the boomerang or the bow here in Zelda.

Dark Helmet · Nov 27, 2006, 09:44 PM

Originally Posted by goMac

Are you seriously going to try and argue a controller is more accurate?

yes and faster also. No lag. I also removed all interfearance and played in the dark.

How big is your TV? Fire up a laser pointer and camera and prove me wrong about the acuracy and lag.

goMac · Nov 27, 2006, 09:48 PM

Originally Posted by Dark Helmet

yes and faster also. No lag.

Fire up a laser pointer and camera and prove me wrong.

You listed about 3 sources of interference and now you say you have lag. Gee, really? Could it be possible that a lot of other people, like me, don't have those sources of lag and therefore don't have problems with lag?

Edit: I've played on up to a 35". No lag.

Dark Helmet · Nov 27, 2006, 09:59 PM

Originally Posted by goMac

You listed about 3 sources of interference and now you say you have lag. Gee, really? Could it be possible that a lot of other people, like me, don't have those sources of lag and therefore don't have problems with lag?

Edit: I've played on up to a 35". No lag.

Yes I said lights, sun and CD's on the table.

Turned off all lights, it is nighttime and took the CD's off the table.

No change.

Get a laser pointer and show me you have no lag as I believe you just don't see it.

You can see a mod here mention the same lag problem.

Chuckit · Nov 27, 2006, 10:07 PM

Originally Posted by goMac

You listed about 3 sources of interference and now you say you have lag. Gee, really?

He said he removed all the interference and played in the dark.

Dark Helmet · Nov 27, 2006, 10:15 PM

Originally Posted by Chuckit

He said he removed all the interference and played in the dark.

PLUS I am not even sure they are interfearance at all.

What I did is go to the Wii setup screen. There it shows you the IR lights onscreen so you can see if the remote see's the markers. I have it set the way it should but just for fun I pointed it at the CD on the Table and the lights. It showd as a reflection but the angles were extreme anyway so I woudn't normally do that playing anyway.

On top of that I'd redone the settings from square one 3-4 times now and nothing makes a bit of difference.

Like I said the inacuracy was expected but the lag is more apperent and serious.

Railroader · Nov 27, 2006, 10:19 PM

I posted in this thread.

I am tempted to buy a Wii though after hearing SWG bash it so much. It's probably awesome.

Dark Helmet · Nov 27, 2006, 10:26 PM

Originally Posted by Railroader

I posted in this thread.

I am tempted to buy a Wii though after hearing SWG bash it so much. It's probably awesome.

Enjoy

Atomic Rooster · Nov 27, 2006, 10:29 PM

Originally Posted by Railroader

I posted in this thread.

I am tempted to buy a Wii though after hearing SWG bash it so much. It's probably awesome.

If there is anyone you should listen to it's SWG.

He knows his stuff even though you may dislike him.

Railroader · Nov 27, 2006, 10:37 PM

Originally Posted by Dark Helmet

Enjoy

Thanks!

Railroader · Nov 27, 2006, 10:39 PM

Originally Posted by Atomic Rooster

If there is anyone you should listen to it's SWG.

He knows his stuff even though you may dislike him.

Ummm... actually, I have found him to be the largest fanboi and largest spewer of FUD here. And for him to go out of his way to bash something so much is usually an indication that I will like something. We are simply polar opposites.

I don't dislike him. I just find his views poorly thought out and hard-headed.

Dark Helmet · Nov 27, 2006, 10:48 PM

Originally Posted by Railroader

Ummm... actually, I have found him to be the largest fanboi and largest spewer of FUD here.

Can you submit the research data to back that up?

Railroader · Nov 27, 2006, 10:58 PM

Originally Posted by Dark Helmet

Can you submit the research data to back that up?

All too easy...

Dark Helmet · Nov 27, 2006, 11:01 PM

Originally Posted by Railroader

All too easy...

... yet you still didn't do it.

Railroader... MacNN's quitter.

Anyway, feel free to get a Wii and come back and share your opinion on it.

Jawbone54 · Nov 27, 2006, 11:43 PM

I just find it weird that you're spending so much time desperately trying to convince people that your view of the Wii is correct. I'm beginning to think that you bought one just so you could have a teeeeensy bit more credibility when you squeal about how much it sucks.

By the way, I'm beginning to really, really, really enjoy TP...

Dark Helmet · Nov 28, 2006, 12:07 AM

Originally Posted by Jawbone54

I just find it weird that you're spending so much time desperately trying to convince people that your view of the Wii is correct. I'm beginning to think that you bought one just so you could have a teeeeensy bit more credibility when you squeal about how much it sucks.

Oh gimmie a break. Nothing I have said is a lie and I can back everything up with a video need be.

I also woun't waste a dime proving someone wrong on the internet. I got the Wii hoping I was wrong.

goMac · Nov 28, 2006, 12:10 AM

Originally Posted by Dark Helmet

Oh gimmie a break. Nothing I have said is a lie and I can back everything up with a video need be.

I also woun't waste a dime proving someone wrong on the internet. I got the Wii hoping I was wrong.

I'm not having lag. Unfortunately, I don't have a laser pointer, so for now you'll have to keep whining.

Eight people played this weekend and not one of them mentioned lag.

Railroader · Nov 28, 2006, 12:22 AM

Originally Posted by Dark Helmet

... yet you still didn't do it.

Railroader... MacNN's quitter.

Anyway, feel free to get a Wii and come back and share your opinion on it.

Seriously dude. It's too easy.

http://forums.macnn.com/search.php?searchid=1336198

Dark Helmet · 12:45 AM

Originally Posted by Railroader

Seriously dude. It's too easy.

http://forums.macnn.com/search.php?searchid=1336198

"Sorry - no matches. Please try some different terms."

Ouch "dude"

P.S. I'll skip any jokes about you failing something you call "It's too easy".

Dark Helmet · Nov 28, 2006, 12:29 AM

Originally Posted by goMac

Eight people played this weekend and not one of them mentioned lag.

Case closed.

Gamoe · Nov 28, 2006, 12:29 AM

Originally Posted by zerostar

Uhh, you don't NEED a component cable, but if you do they are $6.75 + shipping online, you will get them for cheap in a few weeks so its more of a wait thing if you don't want to shell out $30 now.

Where'd you get this info, or is this merely a hunch?

Originally Posted by Hawkeye_a

Now that is what i am worried about with the Wii. I will be trying it out once demos are up and running here in Oz before i get my Wii.... but if thats how it plays out, i wont get one.

As Calimus said, the pointing technology is not flawless, as it depends on IR, which we know is more line-of-sight than RF. However, I've found Wii Sports and even Red Steel a lot of fun and I've not experienced any negative effects due to the IR/Sensor Bar technology.

TETENAL · Nov 28, 2006, 12:45 AM

Originally Posted by Dark Helmet

OMG I tried that laser pointer on the end of the wii trick...

Can you post a video of this? I would be interested in seeing how bad the lag is. The Wii is not out yet in Germany.

Dark Helmet · Nov 28, 2006, 12:49 AM

Originally Posted by TETENAL

Can you post a video of this? I would be interested in seeing how bad the lag is. The Wii is not out yet in Germany.

I will but I need to get some new batteries for the laser first as it is faded.