[Jon God]

Opinions?

[Jon God]

Bump

[Horsepoo!!!]

I had an opinion about this sequel, oh, 8 YEARS AGO (when it was announced)!

I've stopped caring and periodically forget this game was ever announced (a good thing considering how much I loved Dark Castle and how much zsculpt is hurting my feelings.)

zsculpt has taken so long to develop this that it has suffered the following additional set-backs:

The move to OS X
The move to greater than 256 colors ('cuz a 256 color game in 2006 would not bode well)
And now the move to Intel

The codebase for this game is probably ugly as hell now. I don't think I'll ever buy this hacked together game. It's a damn shame Delta Tao didn't just abandon it or ripped it from zsculpt and give it to some other developer.

Delta Tao and zsculpt have effectively killed Dark Castle. This game will never get released or will be but in a crippled form.

Zack & Zack...I hates you!

[Jon God]

Originally Posted by Horsepoo!!! 

I had an opinion about this sequel, oh, 8 YEARS AGO (when it was announced)!

I've stopped caring and periodically forget this game was ever announced (a good thing considering how much I loved Dark Castle and how much zsculpt is hurting my feelings.)

zsculpt has taken so long to develop this that it has suffered the following additional set-backs:

The move to OS X
The move to greater than 256 colors ('cuz a 256 color game in 2006 would not bode well)
And now the move to Intel

The codebase for this game is probably ugly as hell now. I don't think I'll ever buy this hacked together game. It's a damn shame Delta Tao didn't just abandon it or ripped it from zsculpt and give it to some other developer.

Delta Tao and zsculpt have effectively killed Dark Castle. This game will never get released or will be but in a crippled form.

Zack & Zack...I hates you!

Hey, I love Dark Castle too, have for years and years, and am still looking forward to Return To Dark Castle.

The reason the they took so long, is because of those setbacks, which took them over 3 years, the game code is fine on the contrary, and is still being worked on. To quote one of the developers: "the codebase is actually very elegant". and "all of our games share the same engine, so an improvement on one improves all of them, and I have also been working on khufu that whole time which has helped DC"


So, it's up to you to think of it how you will, but you were very wrong about what you said, sorry.

I will continue to look forward to it.

[Jon God]

bump, so's he sees this

[- - e r i k - -]

Hey. Signature guidelines!

[Horsepoo!!!]

Originally Posted by Jon God 

To quote one of the developers: "the codebase is actually very elegant". and "all of our games share the same engine, so an improvement on one improves all of them, and I have also been working on khufu that whole time which has helped DC"


So, it's up to you to think of it how you will, but you were very wrong about what you said, sorry.

Perhaps I'm wrong about some things. But, in my opinion, the two developers have their priorities wrong. RtDC has been in development for over 8 years and they have the balls to work on hacky input managers and Khufu!? Really...what's more important? Their little Khufu game? or the brilliant Dark Castle serie? I'll never give 'em a dime...they've insulted me enough.

[Jon God]

Originally Posted by Horsepoo!!! 

Perhaps I'm wrong about some things. But, in my opinion, the two developers have their priorities wrong. RtDC has been in development for over 8 years and they have the balls to work on hacky input managers and Khufu!? Really...what's more important? Their little Khufu game? or the brilliant Dark Castle serie? I'll never give 'em a dime...they've insulted me enough.

well, one of the developers does most of the work on Dark castle, while the other worked on Khufu, and just because they haven't released a new update in a while doesn't mean it's not making progress, if you're not gonna buy the game then that's your choice but I will have fun, while you piss and moan about a 2 Person company, working with Day jobs, and hitting setbacks like the release of OSX. Have fun, and I will too, but I'll be playing the game.

[Jon God]

Originally Posted by - - e r i k - - 

Hey. Signature guidelines!

uh oh, what's wrong with my sig?

[- - e r i k - -]

Your first clue should have been that NO ONE has a signature as big as a frickin desktop background here.

Our current signature rules give you two options:

an image (200x50px max, 10KB max, non-animated) and up to one line of text, OR
no image, and up to four lines of text.
In either case, blank lines do count, and lines must be of reasonable length so they don't wrap on most screens (think 900px browser window width). Text should not be larger than the default size (no use of the SIZE tag).

[Horsepoo!!!]

Originally Posted by Jon God 

...but I'll be playing the game.

Perhaps...in 2015.

[Jon God]

Originally Posted by Horsepoo!!! 

Perhaps...in 2015.

You, just keep thinking that...

[Horsepoo!!!]

Originally Posted by Jon God 

You, just keep thinking that...

I will...expecially considering the 8 years of waiting = 1/3 of my entire lifetime so far. Can you imagine that? To me, it's ridiculous.

After this much waiting, there's no way the game will ever be as good as I thought it would be. It would have to be pretty bloody amazing for the wait to be worth it.

[Jon God]

Originally Posted by Horsepoo!!! 

I will...expecially considering the 8 years of waiting = 1/3 of my entire lifetime so far. Can you imagine that? To me, it's ridiculous.

After this much waiting, there's no way the game will ever be as good as I thought it would be. It would have to be pretty bloody amazing for the wait to be worth it.

wow, for 27 you have less patience then I would have thought, guess what. I've been waiting too, but I'm not pissed off, because, for one I know nothing would have ever happened post-Color Dark Castle without them, they are doing their best, and are having a huge amount of trouble, which I pointed out. now, what if it comes out, and is good? will you hate it simply because it should have come out sooner? what if it's amazing? will you still hate it based on being tired of waiting?

I personally, think that when it comes out I'll be happy, because I'll have a great game to play, not angry because it didn't come out sooner.

If you don't want to play this game because you got tired of waiting, it's up to you, but to me that seems really silly, is there another reason that I'm not aware of?

[- - e r i k - -]

I'm starting a pool - which will come out sooner: Color Dark Castle or Duke Nukem Forever?

[Jon God]

I'l bet on Return To Dark Castle thanks.

[Horsepoo!!!]

Originally Posted by Jon God 

wow, for 27 you have less patience then I would have thought, guess what. I've been waiting too, but I'm not pissed off, because, for one I know nothing would have ever happened post-Color Dark Castle without them, they are doing their best, and are having a huge amount of trouble, which I pointed out. now, what if it comes out, and is good? will you hate it simply because it should have come out sooner? what if it's amazing? will you still hate it based on being tired of waiting?

I personally, think that when it comes out I'll be happy, because I'll have a great game to play, not angry because it didn't come out sooner.

If you don't want to play this game because you got tired of waiting, it's up to you, but to me that seems really silly, is there another reason that I'm not aware of?

I will play it...if it's ridiculously awesome. Anything short of that will make RtDC a disappointment of epic proportions. And how do you know nothing would have happened post-Color DC without them? For all you and I know, had the right been given to some other company, we might have something similar to RtDC, 4 years ago...using an OpenGL engine that allows for a pseudo-3D environment while remaining a 2D platformer.

Now we've got a game that, while interesting to see the same awesome gameplay as the 1986 debut (which is a good thing) doesn't push any limits in terms of visuals (looks like a game from 1996).

The graphics don't scale well because of this. The game is made for a 640x480 screen (or is it 832x624)...anyways it doesn't matter because who the hell uses those screen resolutions anymore in 2006? When RtDC is released, 100% of people will be on 1024x768 or probably 1280x1024 or greater resolutions (with a lot of people on widescreen displays).

Perhaps DeltaTao/zsculpt should release RtDC as shareware with a 10 dollar price tag or even freeware because this is not commercial-quality software no matter how fun the game might be.

[Jon God]

Originally Posted by Horsepoo!!! 

I will play it...if it's ridiculously awesome. Anything short of that will make RtDC a disappointment of epic proportions. And how do you know nothing would have happened post-Color DC without them? For all you and I know, had the right been given to some other company, we might have something similar to RtDC, 4 years ago...using an OpenGL engine that allows for a pseudo-3D environment while remaining a 2D platformer.

Now we've got a game that, while interesting to see the same awesome gameplay as the 1986 debut (which is a good thing) doesn't push any limits in terms of visuals (looks like a game from 1996).

The graphics don't scale well because of this. The game is made for a 640x480 screen (or is it 832x624)...anyways it doesn't matter because who the hell uses those screen resolutions anymore in 2006? When RtDC is released, 100% of people will be on 1024x768 or probably 1280x1024 or greater resolutions (with a lot of people on widescreen displays).

Perhaps DeltaTao/zsculpt should release RtDC as shareware with a 10 dollar price tag or even freeware because this is not commercial-quality software no matter how fun the game might be.

if there had been a 3D Dark Castle game in 2002, it would have sucked, and having 3D graphics on a 2D game never looks good, the best that could be done that way, is really well rendered sprites, which, aren't too different then what is currently being used. And seriously, how many companies would really take notice of Dark castle series, and want to make a full blown sequel? really? it's really not a mainstream game,

I do think it's a good bet to go with the same things, just upgraded over before in graphics, and such, because if you're really not sure if you can please fans, try to stay as close to what they liked as possible.

The betas of Dark Castle, seemed to run fine on my monitor fine, and it's 20" so even if it's a low resolution, it's no different then launching a full screen game, of which you don't know the resolution.

Really, I'm sure you wouldn't want to release something you've been working on for 10 years (1/3 or your life) on for 10 dollars? Right? I know I wouldn't, plus, you are very hard on 2 people for trying their best to make a game to please fans, they've even thrown in a level editor.

Lastly, what would make this game awesome to you? I'm getting the feeling you just hate it for the sake of hating it, so how could this game be all as awesome as you preach?

[Horsepoo!!!]

Originally Posted by Jon God 

if there had been a 3D Dark Castle game in 2002, it would have sucked, and having 3D graphics on a 2D game never looks good, the best that could be done that way, is really well rendered sprites, which, aren't too different then what is currently being used. And seriously, how many companies would really take notice of Dark castle series, and want to make a full blown sequel? really? it's really not a mainstream game,

1. I never said a 3D Dark Castle...I said pseudo-3D...we're talking 2D sprites but with parallax scrolling to give a sense of depth. The OpenGL engine would probably be a ton better than whatever zsculpt is using right now (which seems very limited). I probably should have said 2.5D.

imo, Prince of Persia 3D killed the serie...I would never wish that for Dark Castle.

2. You gotta be shittin' me. Dark Castle was ported to a ton of platforms (albeit the ports were really bad).

[- - e r i k - -]

Except Prince of Persia 3D and it's sequel sold millions more unit than the originals and got rave reviews everywhere. So much for "killing" the series. You liking it or not is rather beside the point at that stage

3D graphics in a 2D game can look stunning, just look at Enigmo or even New Super Mario Bros. Parallax with sprites is almost as old as platform games itself and definitely not anything like 3D.

[Jon God]

Originally Posted by - - e r i k - - 

Except Prince of Persia 3D and it's sequel sold millions more unit than the originals and got rave reviews everywhere. So much for "killing" the series. You liking it or not is rather beside the point at that stage

3D graphics in a 2D game can look stunning, just look at Enigmo or even New Super Mario Bros. Parallax with sprites is almost as old as platform games itself and definitely not anything like 3D.

I somewhat agree with the price of persia statement. though, I think that was more of a fluke, I don't think that will be happening to every classic though, plus, I don't like the idea of the graphics in 3D, because you can do better with pre-rendered sprites most of the time, though that's preference. Now, to really answer your question, I like the graphics, for Return To Dark Castle, upgraded, but not changed enough to really change the game. if they did too much, it might lose the whole dark castle feel.

Originally Posted by Horsepoo!!! 

1. I never said a 3D Dark Castle...I said pseudo-3D...we're talking 2D sprites but with parallax scrolling to give a sense of depth. The OpenGL engine would probably be a ton better than whatever zsculpt is using right now (which seems very limited). I probably should have said 2.5D.

imo, Prince of Persia 3D killed the serie...I would never wish that for Dark Castle.

2. You gotta be shittin' me. Dark Castle was ported to a ton of platforms (albeit the ports were really bad).

Yeah, I didn't so much like the new 3D prince of Persia, I know what you mean by that, but don't you think that might kind of kill Dark Castle a little? it's a bit hard to upgrade the graphics without loosing some of the feeling of the game.

Oh? ask 50 Mainstream computer gamers, and see how many of them have played Dark Castle, let alone heard of it.


You didn't answer my question, is the only thing you would change the resolution, and graphics?

*sigh*

[Horsepoo!!!]

Originally Posted by - - e r i k - - 

Except Prince of Persia 3D and it's sequel sold millions more unit than the originals and got rave reviews everywhere. So much for "killing" the series. You liking it or not is rather beside the point at that stage

3D graphics in a 2D game can look stunning, just look at Enigmo or even New Super Mario Bros. Parallax with sprites is almost as old as platform games itself and definitely not anything like 3D.

That's why I corrected myself... two point five dee! 3D graphics in a 2D game can look stunning...but well-done 2D graphics in a 2.5D game murders 3D graphics in a 2D game.

And bullshit on the Prince of Persia 3D selling more that the originals. Provide a link please.

[Horsepoo!!!]

Originally Posted by Jon God 

I somewhat agree with the price of persia statement. though, I think that was more of a fluke, I don't think that will be happening to every classic though, plus, I don't like the idea of the graphics in 3D, because you can do better with pre-rendered sprites most of the time, though that's preference. Now, to really answer your question, I like the graphics, for Return To Dark Castle, upgraded, but not changed enough to really change the game. if they did too much, it might lose the whole dark castle feel.




Yeah, I didn't so much like the new 3D prince of Persia, I know what you mean by that, but don't you think that might kind of kill Dark Castle a little? it's a bit hard to upgrade the graphics without loosing some of the feeling of the game.

Oh? ask 50 Mainstream computer gamers, and see how many of them have played Dark Castle, let alone heard of it.


You didn't answer my question, is the only thing you would change the resolution, and graphics?

*sigh*

Yes...otherwise it couldn't possibly be sold as a commercial game. The quality is far too low. Why should zsculpt's 2 developers get 50 bucks for a game with 1996-style graphics (I'm being generous here) and some other company that has poured millions of dollars into refining some other game get the same amount of money for a game.

As for 50 mainstream computer gamers...I'd be suprised if they heard anything other than Half Life 2, Doom 3, etc.

[Jon God]

Originally Posted by Horsepoo!!! 

Yes...otherwise it couldn't possibly be sold as a commercial game. The quality is far too low. Why should zsculpt's 2 developers get 50 bucks for a game with 1996-style graphics (I'm being generous here) and some other company that has poured millions of dollars into refining some other game get the same amount of money for a game.

As for 50 mainstream computer gamers...I'd be suprised if they heard anything other than Half Life 2, Doom 3, etc.

The quality is too low, is kind of opinionated, for I know of people that spend $40 on a new version of Pac Man, or tetris. I for one, think that the quality is fine, is a sequel of a retro game, that's done perfectly to the original, so you wont be playing it, and saying that "this was done better in the original" "I wish they hadn't done this". In my opinion, you get revamped version of both the first two games plus a new quest, that all runs under OS X, for it.

Yes, I know that's exactly my point, no one remembers the "real" classics, people only remember Pong, Pac man, and tetris.

You still didn't answer my question.

[Horsepoo!!!]

Originally Posted by Jon God 

The quality is too low, is kind of opinionated, for I know of people that spend $40 on a new version of Pac Man, or tetris. I for one, think that the quality is fine, is a sequel of a retro game, that's done perfectly to the original, so you wont be playing it, and saying that "this was done better in the original" "I wish they hadn't done this". In my opinion, you get revamped version of both the first two games plus a new quest, that all runs under OS X, for it.

Yes, I know that's exactly my point, no one remembers the "real" classics, people only remember Pong, Pac man, and tetris.

You still didn't answer my question.

What part of "yes...otherwise it couldn't possibly be sold as a commercial game" did you not understand? Yes, the only part is the resolution and the graphics. Keep the gameplay but give the game, at the very least, graphics that scale well with resolution and I'll be willing to pay for the game.

If I have to play 640x480 graphics stretched and blurred to 1920x1200, I'm not gonna pay for it.

The next example might be extreme but is in a similar vein...Al Evans, creator of Cap'n Magneto actually believes his resurrected game is still worth 20 bucks. Had he at least try to improve the graphics other than add a bit of color here and there, I'd have rebought his game. I do see a lot of improvements to RtDC's graphics when compared to say the original Dark Castle or even Color Dark Castle...but like I said, 1996 graphics and ugly res stretching will make this game flop as a 2006-2007 game...if it's even released.

If that wasn't your question...please tell me what your question was.

[Jon God]

Originally Posted by Horsepoo!!! 

What part of "yes...otherwise it couldn't possibly be sold as a commercial game" did you not understand? Yes, the only part is the resolution and the graphics. Keep the gameplay but give the game, at the very least, graphics that scale well with resolution and I'll be willing to pay for the game.

If I have to play 640x480 graphics stretched and blurred to 1920x1200, I'm not gonna pay for it.

The next example might be extreme but is in a similar vein...Al Evans, creator of Cap'n Magneto actually believes his resurrected game is still worth 20 bucks. Had he at least try to improve the graphics other than add a bit of color here and there, I'd have rebought his game. I do see a lot of improvements to RtDC's graphics when compared to say the original Dark Castle or even Color Dark Castle...but like I said, 1996 graphics and ugly res stretching will make this game flop as a 2006-2007 game...if it's even released.

If that wasn't your question...please tell me what your question was.

hmmm, so, only graphics? well, I personally think Graphics<Gameplay and I like the gameplay therefore I will like this, if everyone thought the way you do, it might fail, but allot of people that play Half-Life 2 then go and play tetris, and I'm sure they don't complain about the graphics.

So, in your opinion it will fail, but that's not everyones opinion.

So, would you have rather had it canceled, and never see another Dark Castle? or to have this come out?

[P]

Gameplay is definitely more important than graphics, but people tend to judge a game by its graphics. At $50, it won't sell. Look at what Ambrosia charges for its 2D games to get a better idea.

The retro angle will only matter to the rather small number of people who played it back in the day. That is nowhere near the number of people who have played Pacman or Tetris.

[Jon God]

Originally Posted by P 

Gameplay is definitely more important than graphics, but people tend to judge a game by its graphics. At $50, it won't sell. Look at what Ambrosia charges for its 2D games to get a better idea.

The retro angle will only matter to the rather small number of people who played it back in the day. That is nowhere near the number of people who have played Pacman or Tetris.

I do understand what you mean, but at the same time, for them it would be really hard, for them to do that, plus, it's not gonna be fifty, at most it'll be $40, and, good argument, sorry I took so long to reply, I was really busy.

[olePigeon]

Originally Posted by - - e r i k - - 

3D graphics in a 2D game can look stunning, just look at Enigmo or even New Super Mario Bros. Parallax with sprites is almost as old as platform games itself and definitely not anything like 3D.

I still play Microsoft Myth II. I guess that'd be 2D sprites i a 3D game.

[Jon God]

Originally Posted by olePigeon 

I still play Microsoft Myth II. I guess that'd be 2D sprites i a 3D game.

Ah, he I do too, but where did microsoft come it? But that's not quite what he was talking about when he said that.