[ort888]

I have a certain level of expectations that come with a $400 purchase. At the very minimum, I expect my product to work, and continue to work for a reasonable amount of time.

My launch-day Xbox 360 suddenly stopped working after 16 months of use. In that time I have always treated it with care. It is in a well ventilated area and has not been moved since November of 2005. There was no event that cause it to stop working. It simply froze, and then would only display the "Red Ring of Death".

I understand that sometimes electronic devices fail. I also understand that items ship with a set warranty period.

HOWEVER, I would be a lot more understanding if you were willing to stand behind your product and fix it at a reasonable cost...

$139 IS NOT A REASONABLE COST. Especially when you have to deal with the hassle and expense of shipping it yourself.

To make the situation even more insulting, my replacement would be refurbished and comes with a pathetic 3 month warranty. Extending the warranty to two years would cost me a ridiculous $60.

A refurbished unit with a 2 year warranty would cost me roughly $220?

In what world do I buy a $400 device and only expect it to function for a year? In what world do you tell me with a straight face that paying an additional $220 is the only way to get a replacement with a warranty?

It would be bad enough if my problem was an isolated incident, but it is not. Thousands and thousands of people are having their Xbox 360s fail for no good reason. The internet is filled with wide-spread reports of hardware problems.

The Xbox 360 is synonymous with hardware failure. The "Red Ring of Death" has become a standard part of gaming vocabulary. This is NOT a normal failure rate. I have been an avid gamer for over 20 years and I have never seen anything like this. There is a problem with your console and you are doing nothing to fix it. I believe that you are knowingly selling a faulty product.

I have spent well over $1,500 on Xbox consoles, games and acccessories. I was a very pleased and outspoken fan of the Xbox platform until I started having to deal with your customer service department.

Practically overnight, you have turned me into a very unhappy and VERY VOCAL customer.

Until you have demonstrated that you are willing to stand behind your product, and are capable of producing units that work properly, I am finished with Microsoft as a company and the Xbox 360 gaming platform. I will forever take every opportunity to warn people to avoid your products.

Please reconsider your companies ridiculous replacement program and work on resolving your hardware problems. I would love to hear your thoughts on this and the steps you are taking to resolve the issue.

[brokenjago]

I seem to remember MS automatically extending the warranty on the XB360 to two years.

Maybe I'm just insane.

[grr74]

Cheers man! I was considering buying one not knowing about the red ring of death. Now having read other forums saying what you say I will not buy one. Reckon I'll go with the WII.

[Chuckit]

Originally Posted by brokenjago 

I seem to remember MS automatically extending the warranty on the XB360 to two years.

Maybe I'm just insane.

I thought so too.

[ort888]

They extended it from 3 months to one year.

[ghostshadow]

They were also offering free repair for the 360's that were purchased before jan 06

[-Q-]

Originally Posted by ort888 

Please reconsider your companies ridiculous replacement program and work on resolving your hardware problems. I would love to hear your thoughts on this and the steps you are taking to resolve the issue.

Good luck.

BTW, companies=more than one company. Company's is the possessive you want to use in this reference.

[Big Mac]

I hate to say it, but I happen to think that's what you get for supporting M$'s bid to monopolize gaming.

[Hawkeye_a]

Originally Posted by Big Mac 

I hate to say it, but I happen to think that's what you get for supporting M$'s bid to monopolize gaming.

I agree !! (quoted for emphasis)

[Adam Betts]

Originally Posted by Big Mac 

I hate to say it, but I happen to think that's what you get for supporting M$'s bid to monopolize gaming.

Xbox360 is one of the best thing ever came out of Microsoft. It's unfortunate that this red circle of death is very widespread (I got hit with one three weeks ago and they repaired it for free) but other than that I'm very pleased with their console.

[Dakar²]

Looks like MS is looking to loose Sony's stranglehold on unreliable consoles as well.

[ort888]

Here are my options as I see them...

1. Buy a PS3
I really have no interest in any of the exclusive games coming for the PS3 and have little faith in sony to turn this thing around. Plus, this will set me back $600. No.

2. Buy a Wii
I do want a Wii, but I cannot imagine having the Wii as my only console. It would drive me nuts.

The sad truth is, is that I really love Microsoft's first party titles and I have already invested so much into their games and accessories that I'm much closer to considering...

3. Get a refurbished unit from Microsoft for $220.
This would make the total cost of ownership for the 360 console $620. Ridiculous. I also do not want to do this because...

4. Buy a new core system for $300
This makes a lot more sense than paying $220 for a refurbished unit. Plus, I already have the hard drive and stuff that comes with the Premium. I would have a brand new system and could get Best Buys superior replacement plan and never have to talk to Microsoft's customer service department ever again. I also have about $75 in Best Buy gift certificates (which makes it cost about as much as the refurb) HOWEVER... this is also rewarding them for terrible customer service and it would make me ill to my stomach to do this.

5. Waiting for a price drop (or this new Zephyr unit) and then buying a new system.
Not sure when this would happen, probably in the fall. That's a long time away.

6. Continue to send nasty letters to Microsoft in the hopes that they throw me a bone.
This is going to continue regardless.



Right now I'm thinking a of buying a Wii to keep me entertained for a while and waiting for a price drop, and/or Microsoft to come to their senses and fix my console for a reasonable price.

[highstakes]

I bought mine during december of 2005, and it broke down about two-three weeks ago...got it repaired for free (except $15 for package/shipping), and I dont have extended warranty.

Right now, the best option i think you have is either wait for E3 or the Zephyr. The Wii is really fun to play with friends and such, but there are nothing more to the games after you beat them. You really wish Nintendo would've added online multi-player for Wario Ware or Wii play (I can imagine 4 player tank game ). As for the PS3, just wait till E3, I am sure there is a price drop in the coming months.

[ort888]

How did you get it fixed for free?

I'm planning on calling every night this week and raising a colossal s***storm until I get what I want.

[highstakes]

Originally Posted by ort888 

How did you get it fixed for free?

I'm planning on calling every night this week and raising a colossal s***storm until I get what I want.

I got an email from MS telling me that my warranty was extended by one year, and that if I did any paid repair on the 360 already, MS would refund me my money. If I understood the email correctly, all the launched Xbox 360's would've been under warranty until Nov. 2007.

[ort888]

If you bought it in December 05, your warranty would have expired in December 06 and your system would have been out of warranty 2-3 weeks ago when it broke down.

I'm confused.

[Chuckit]

Originally Posted by ort888 

If you bought it in December 05, your warranty would have expired in December 06 and your system would have been out of warranty 2-3 weeks ago when it broke down.

I'm confused.

He said the warranty was extended by a year (meaning it expires in December 07). Where's the confusion?

[brokenjago]

They extended it from 3 months to one year.

The warranty was always one year.

[Chuckit]

Originally Posted by brokenjago 

The warranty was always one year.

o rly?

[ort888]

Originally Posted by Chuckit 

He said the warranty was extended by a year (meaning it expires in December 07). Where's the confusion?

I'm confused because he said that he got it fixed 2-3 weeks ago, which would have been after the warranty period.


I just got done arguing with an Indian gentleman named Alvin. Was on the phone for an hour and the best they could offer me was 25% off the repair. (A savings of $35)

NOT A HAPPY CAMPER!

[highstakes]

MS extended the warranty to 1 yr from date of purchase, so either I got a big break from the operator or MS thinks I purchased the system around late Oct of 2006 (thats when I had to register my 360 for XBL).

[brokenjago]

o rly?

I am wrong.

I am ashamed.

[Mrjinglesusa]

Or, you could get one of these:

Xbox 360 Elite: new, black limited edition Xbox with HDMI and 120GB drive - Engadget

[centerchannel68]

Uh...yeah....except MS is a GIGANTIC company and does not care about your letter. Especially if it's an email.

Also, I don't find the prices all that unreasonable. Shipping it shouldn't be very expensive, and $100 some odd dollars to fix the thing including labor and parts is pretty cheap if you think about it. As for warranty, what is the point? NOthing will go wrong during the warranty, as you've found out. Things only happen after a warranty is already expired.

[ort888]

$139 is practically half the cost of the system. Throw in a warranty and shipping costs and I'm paying 2/3 the cost of a brand new system to get it fixed.

What makes it unreasonable is that there is such a high percentage of units breaking down, and then they have the audacity to treat me like the breakdown is my fault.

I know my letter is not going to do any good, but I can't sit by and just accept things like this. This is how consumers get screwed. We need to demand more out of companies and make them earn our money. I've written a few nasty emails, spent about an hour and a half on their "support" line and have contacted the BBB. I'm not sure what else I can do.

I'm not ready to accept that a reasonable lifespan of a console is a year and a half. I'm also not ready to accept that a warranty is a required part of a console purchase. It's never been before, so why should it now? When I purchase a $400 piece of electronics, I expect it to last. I don't want to look at an item with a year long warranty and say to myself, "Oh, it's got a year warranty, this item will last me a year and then break." I do not consider that to be a reasonable level of value for my money. I expect more.

[highstakes]

I agree with you. My N64, SNES, even the NES works to this day...never had to replace them. I've only had problems with Xbox and the Xbox 360....our PS2 and GC works to this day.

[ort888]

My Xbox worked fine.

The only consoles I've had problems with are the PS1 and 360. My Cube was a little iffy, but still worked for the most part.

Well, my NES is a little screwed up, but I bought it in 1987 and it's been through hell. I can forgive it. (Especially since I can stilll make it work after a bit of fiddling.)

Hell, my Atari 2600 still works. How about that Microsoft.

[eyevaan]

I realize we are talking about MS and not Apple BUT hear me out. I had a logicboard fail in my G5, two weeks after my extended warranty went out. I called Apple, and got a very rude operator who was obviously not very happy working for the company without saying it she told me I was SOL... I did not find that to be satisfactory so I called again a couple of days later. I got a different operator, told that same story - they told be they could not help me but the transferred me to public relations. They were very interested in helping and I got the work done for free.

Squeaky wheels do get attention, call them, sit on the phone for days, buy a Wii in the meantime, but keep contacting MS. Even the largest companies do not want to loose loyal customers, ($1500 is very loyal), you might want to try to keep the "colossal s***storm" to a dull roar if you raise someone on the phone. Good luck. I hope you get what you want, and for the record, 16 months then failure is completely unacceptable.

[blueleaf]

My 360 started showing the ring of death a couple of months ago. I didn't play my Xbox ALOT, so it was not a HUGE deal to me, although I was still obviously upset. Now I'm really starting to miss my NHL 07 and Madden, so I think I'm going to call Microsoft, but I definitely don't have the money to pay 220 bucks, (I'm only 16) and I'm not sure if I am covered by the warranty...I don't think I've had the system for a year though...so will I be covered with the new change? Do you think they can determine when I bought it based on my serial number (I don't have the receit) and whether or not I will be able to get it replaced for free?

[brokenjago]

They will be able to determine by your serial if you bought it at one of the big box retailers (WalMart, Fry's Electronics, Best Buy, Target, etc.)

They will fix it for free if you're still within warranty.

[screamingFit]

Sorry to hear of your luck, Ort.

I was kind of in the same situation as you were but my 360's impending death was caused by the Fall Update (as were many others). It finally sorted itself out after another update but during the time it was f'ed up, I went through some of the same questions as you are finding yourself in. No, I wasn't going to pay for them to repair a unit that the f'ed up and no, I wasn't going to pay to fix/replace a system that isn't a year old. I had invested about $1000 in 360 stuff and was willing to just toss it all to not have to further deal with it or the company.

I am an older gamer with quite an extensive collection of old hardware. Everything still works to this day - and, we're talking stuff older than the 2600. Buying things never assumed that you had to take the cost of an extended warranty with the purchase price but now that seems the norm. The anemic, old 360 warranty of 90 days and Apple's current 90 day warranty just scream, "I'm going to break!".

[pyrite]

360 is the best console to own right now if you're a keen gamer IMO.. yes the initial failure rate was relatively high, but it was NO WORSE than the PS2 originally was, and it has now settled to be perfectly acceptable. the quality of new units is top notch. think of it like a macbook, which went through near identical teething problems

PS3 has a lot of potential but there are not enough decent games yet to warrant a purchase at the moment (unless you need a blu-ray player), and a lot of ex-sony-exclusive titles are switching to 360 as you may know, which is pissing a lot of pro-sony people off and making 360 owners jump for joy.

wii are fantastic fun, but the mania has settled and people have realised that it only really has one great game at the moment (zelda), and a whole bunch of ok ones.. it's a great party console or second console to sit next to your 360/PS3 if you can afford both.

in short, get another 360

[ort888]

I'm not so sure that the new ones are so flawless. It ssems like they are still having a lot of problems.

[brokenjago]

Apple's current 90 day warranty just scream, "I'm going to break!".

What Apple products come with a 90 day warranty? Even the refurbished stuff comes with 1 year.

[screamingFit]

Originally Posted by brokenjago 

What Apple products come with a 90 day warranty? Even the refurbished stuff comes with 1 year.

If I remember correctly, that used to be the iPod warranty (which is now 1 year).

[screamingFit]

"Little Big World" and the forthcoming Naughty Dog and Insomniac franchise games have me seriously contemplating saving up for a PS3. These type of games is where the 360 falls unbelievably short. I'm getting real sick of crappy arcade ports (XBLA) and FPS games on the 360.

[pyrite]

true that naughty dog/insomniac type games are missing from the 360, as they were from xbox... they're the one thing i miss from PS2.
my main intererests are shooters and racing though, and with great current releases + forza2 + halo3 + a billion other racing/fps games coming out, i'm happy as a pig in mud

different strokes for different folks...

[ort888]

Who says bitching never gets anywhere...

So, TODAY, Microsoft announced some changes to their return policies.

Xbox.com | System Setup - Xbox 360 Warranty and Service Enhancements

• You no longer have to pay to ship the console to them. they now send everyone a prepaid box.

• The unit you receive back from them is now either your unit or a brand new unit. No more refurb hell.

• The unit you receive back no longer has a pathetic 3 month warranty, but a fresh one year warranty.

Well, that was enough to make me bite the bullet and have them fix my unit (so glad I waited). So, not only did they confirm all of this (and kiss my ass 10 times more then they had in the past), I got transfered directly to a supervisor, who offered me 50% off my repair bill (without me saying a word) and gave me a free month of live to make up for the time I had missed.

Who says 2 angry letters, a complaint or two to the BBB and consumer affairs and a follow up talk with a special agent at Microsoft never accomplished anything.

I don't know what was in the notes in my job referral number, but they really went out of there way to be nice to me this time. (Unlike in the past, where they talked to me like I was a criminal)

Much happier today then I was yesterday.

[brokenjago]

Well, they've finally brought their service up to Nintendo's level, which has been offering those things for years.

Although they still give you refurbs. However, they come with 1 year warranty coverage.

[ort888]

I couldn't tell you about how Nintendo's customer service is... since I've never had any of my dozen or so Nintendo systems break down on me in the 20 years I've been a gamer.

[highstakes]

Good to hear things worked out for ya...the 1 year warranty on refurb 360's is nice.

[Dakar²]

And there was much rejoicing.

[screamingFit]

So, it took almost two years of countless pissed off people to get them to make a warranty policy that makes sense for their prone-to-fault product?

Well, at least they finally did something about it.

Until this revised warranty policy, if my 360 died, I wouldn't of replaced/repaired it and just moved on to something else.

[Hawkeye_a]

Originally Posted by screamingFit 

So, it took almost two years of countless pissed off people to get them to make a warranty policy that makes sense for their prone-to-fault product?

Well, at least they finally did something about it.

Until this revised warranty policy, if my 360 died, I wouldn't of replaced/repaired it and just moved on to something else.

You'd think ppl would learn which companies to trust.

[Dakar²]

Originally Posted by Hawkeye_a 

You'd think ppl would learn which companies to trust.

Oh, I think it's a no-win on this one.

[Leonard]

Originally Posted by ort888 

Who says bitching never gets anywhere...

So, TODAY, Microsoft announced some changes to their return policies.

Xbox.com | System Setup - Xbox 360 Warranty and Service Enhancements

• You no longer have to pay to ship the console to them. they now send everyone a prepaid box.

• The unit you receive back from them is now either your unit or a brand new unit. No more refurb hell.

• The unit you receive back no longer has a pathetic 3 month warranty, but a fresh one year warranty.

Well, that was enough to make me bite the bullet and have them fix my unit (so glad I waited). So, not only did they confirm all of this (and kiss my ass 10 times more then they had in the past), I got transfered directly to a supervisor, who offered me 50% off my repair bill (without me saying a word) and gave me a free month of live to make up for the time I had missed.

Who says 2 angry letters, a complaint or two to the BBB and consumer affairs and a follow up talk with a special agent at Microsoft never accomplished anything.

I don't know what was in the notes in my job referral number, but they really went out of there way to be nice to me this time. (Unlike in the past, where they talked to me like I was a criminal)

Much happier today then I was yesterday.

I'll have to check this out.

Good to hear you got a decent deal on your repair. Sounds like persistance pays off.

[eyevaan]

thanks for the updated info and it's good news for you I hope. As for the comment by screamingFit - it IS rediculous that it took that many people to make this happen.

[mitchell_pgh]

FYI, many states require that all electronics have a one year warranty.

[SpaceMonkey]

Originally Posted by brokenjago 

What Apple products come with a 90 day warranty? Even the refurbished stuff comes with 1 year.

It's 90 days of free "phone support." But in my experience, if you are calling within the warranty period, all you have to do is say "I'm calling to see if I need to send my unit in to be serviced under warranty," and you get all the free phone support you need to diagnose your problem.

[imitchellg5]

Originally Posted by Big Mac 

I hate to say it, but I happen to think that's what you get for supporting M$'s bid to monopolize technology.

Fixed.