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downinflames68 · 04:10 AM

I just got the demo a few days ago when it came out. Wow. How much does this suck, let me count the ways:

1. On our 1080p TV, it really does not look much better than GT4 while racing. Yeah, the replays and care detail is better, but overall, it really isn't much of a step. Not visually impressive.

2. THE @(#$(*&@#$(&*@#$ MUSIC! OMFG. Is this an exciting RACING simulator, or a ****ING ELEVATOR!?!? It is SOOOOOOO bad. Like, cheesy 90s japanese VCR commercials bad. Fake saxophones, smooth jazz. Jesus ****ing christ what were they thinking?!?!

3. Really seems like an HD version of GT4. Not good.

4. Massive delays, every time you select something in the main menu. It just sits there and does nothing.

5. Cars feel not realistic. You'll be in a turn, at full throttle, with no slipping. Then, suddenly your rear end slides out. For no reason. No change of steering angle, no throttle input difference, no braking, just POOF suddenly you are correcting the car from spinning out.

6. Still no damage.

7. It is not FUN. Like, it is NOT ENJOYABLE even. It just feels like a huge chore. Now, instead of feeling good about yourself for winning it says what "rank you are" in the global stats for lap times, meaning everytime you finish it says you are like 5,242nd in the world. Wow. Thanks, go **** yourself.

8. Still only 3 views. Inside, bumper, and outside. Holy crap. Need for speed had those three views. Back in 1995. WTF.

9. The cars just do not TURN. At full lock, they just slide. If you touch the grass, at all, say goodbye to any sort of traction you'd expect, even when you get back on the pavement.

10. Oh, and if you go off the course, the car is limited to about 2000rpms, and about 10mph. I've driven cars on grass. Guess what? They still go really fast. They just don't turn or stop as well.

11. As soon as you stop turning, the front wheels snap TOTALLY STRAIGHT, INSTANTLY. This ruins how clean many of your exits are. Just. God. Awful.

I realize that some of these flaws may be considered "more realistic", but it really kills any sort of "fun" the game has to offer.

Jesus. Forza is going to destroy this so badly. So so so disappointing. At this point, I am seriously considering getting an Xbox 360, purely for Forza III.

exca1ibur · Dec 21, 2009, 11:20 AM

I feel you on some of that, but I know for a fact the retail version has damage for sure, but not in this demo. I wonder if this is an old build or what. The sliding pisses me off to no end, as well. The grass and being off track are frustrating. For a demo it would be better if it was a race with other cars on the track not a clock race. Clock racing is pretty boring, IMO, especially when you have a list of hundreds of cars to run against.

Personally, I don't like the demo much either, the sliding/turning sucks most, IMO. I have a feeling everything is optimal if you are using a race wheel, but using the controller seems brutal for trying to push all out now. I HATE the ranking thing as well, that really does put a knife through your chest doesn't it? LOL I will have to read around a bit and see about that turning, sliding on the retail version. That is what pisses me off with Need For Speed: Shift often. Hopefully this is just a crappy demo, or this will be a bit of a disappointment I agree.

imitchellg5 · Dec 21, 2009, 11:33 AM

Perhaps the demo is in 720p? It sure was a small download.

It reminded me of the Need For Speed Shift demo.

Forza 3 is much much better, if the demo is any sign of the game. Way more realistic with decent damage modeling. The dynamics of Forza 3 are about as close to real life that is possible, at least with today's technology.

I really really hope the full game is a lot better, because I really want to drive the Top Gear test track.

SpaceMonkey · Dec 21, 2009, 11:48 AM

Isn't the whole point of it being a global time trail that the company, as part of its marketing is offering a prize or somefink?

Given how stripped down this is, I would think that GT5 Prologue would be a better indication of the full game.

imitchellg5 · Dec 21, 2009, 11:51 AM

Originally Posted by SpaceMonkey

Isn't the whole point of it being a global time trail that the company, as part of its marketing is offering a prize or somefink?

Given how stripped down this is, I would think that GT5 Prologue would be a better indication of the full game.

Well, they sort of are. Like Prologue, the fastest persons in the tuned 370Z will have a chance to do the 5-day racing school thing and then race the car in real life.

mduell · Dec 21, 2009, 02:37 PM

Originally Posted by downinflames68

5. Cars feel not realistic. You'll be in a turn, at full throttle, with no slipping. Then, suddenly your rear end slides out. For no reason. No change of steering angle, no throttle input difference, no braking, just POOF suddenly you are correcting the car from spinning out.

9. The cars just do not TURN. At full lock, they just slide. If you touch the grass, at all, say goodbye to any sort of traction you'd expect, even when you get back on the pavement.

Have you ever actually experienced high performance driving in the real world?

downinflames68 · Dec 21, 2009, 03:49 PM

Originally Posted by mduell

Have you ever actually experienced high performance driving in the real world?

I've tracked my old neon at blackhawk, back in 2002 or 2003 or something. So. Yeah. I've also driven a lot of kinds of cars in a spirited fashion. NONE of them react like GT5.

Take the chicane for example. Drive through it. SLOW. Just like you were delivering mail. Or there are kids around. The car just SLIDES FORWARD. It UNDERSTEERS. At 5-10mph!!!!!!!!!!

No car I have ever heard of plows straight ahead at such a low speed. Same goes for the magic sidestep of the rear end. I've done some little drifts in an IS300, and it GRADUALLY comes out. Not in the middle of a turn suddenly slides out about 3 ft.

Also, when you release the steering wheel in a car, the wheels center themselves but slowly. They do not just SNAP to center instantly.

imitchellg5 · 06:34 PM

Originally Posted by downinflames68

Also, when you release the steering wheel in a car, the wheels center themselves but slowly. They do not just SNAP to center instantly.

Eh, a lot of cars these days with variable power assist do snap to the center very quickly; it's easy to find a ton of hatred (esp. towards BMW) from auto journos about these systems. But yes, they've gone wrong everywhere else. I've not driven a 370Z, but I drove a slightly modified 350Z at a SCCA meet this summer, and it was nothing like GT5.

EDIT: To be honest, I thought I was driving my Accord before I had installed the TL type S suspension...

downinflames68 · Dec 21, 2009, 08:14 PM

Go drive the chicane. Slowly. It will have trouble turning even at incredibly low speeds. Something that even a rental cobalt could do.

ajprice · Dec 22, 2009, 07:18 AM

I've got this demo, but I'm not taking it as representative of the final game. The download was 240mb or something like that, for the amount of information needed for the game engine, track, cars, textures, graphics, sounds etc, that seems like a small file. I think its cut down a lot from what the final game will be.

I do agree with some stuff though, the grass is like ice, there's a lot of lag in the menu. I don't get on that well with RWD cars in driving games anyway, but it is easy to spin these coming out of corners.

SpaceMonkey · Dec 22, 2009, 08:52 AM

Originally Posted by ajprice

I do agree with some stuff though, the grass is like ice

I read an interesting thought on another forum. Someone was speculating based on previous GT Academy experience that they did this on purpose for the time trial to increase the penalty for going off the course.

imitchellg5 · Dec 22, 2009, 10:26 AM

What would the benefit of that be? Wouldn't their still be top people on the leaderboard?

SpaceMonkey · Dec 22, 2009, 10:33 AM

Originally Posted by imitchellg5

What would the benefit of that be? Wouldn't their still be top people on the leaderboard?

It's conceivable that there are some areas of the track in which a driver could gain a small advantage by going off-course.

ajprice · Dec 22, 2009, 11:13 AM

Forza 3: If you do something on the lap like go off track (sometimes even a little bit), tap a wall, draft another car, or even have another car drafting you, the lap has a /!\ warning triangle next to it, and it doesn't count as a legal lap. There's no need to make the grass an ice rink, if you go on more grass than track, the lap doesn't count, end of story. If you cut the last corner to get a better launch for the next lap, it knows, and the next lap is invalid too. Its a good system and it works.

SpaceMonkey · Dec 22, 2009, 11:18 AM

Originally Posted by ajprice

Forza 3: If you do something on the lap like go off track (sometimes even a little bit), tap a wall, draft another car, or even have another car drafting you, the lap has a /!\ warning triangle next to it, and it doesn't count as a legal lap. There's no need to make the grass an ice rink, if you go on more grass than track, the lap doesn't count, end of story. If you cut the last corner to get a better launch for the next lap, it knows, and the next lap is invalid too. Its a good system and it works.

Oh no doubt there are better systems. I just think it's an open question how much thought and effort went into stuff like that for the time trial demo, which is clearly sacrificing a lot graphically (begging the question: what else?) in the name of download size and targeting a very specific goal.

Clearly response to this demo has been underwhelming, so hopefully they are taking note.

Jawbone54 · Dec 22, 2009, 04:57 PM

I just cannot play Gran Turismo. I'll try again with GT5, but like you said at first, it's just not FUN. Forza 2 was the only sim-style racing game that I was actually able to have quite a bit of fun with, and I have to admit that part of that had to do with body/decal customization.

I was wondering how some folks with an actual real-life car obsession would react to the game. Now I see what you think so far.

The Final Dakar · Dec 22, 2009, 05:05 PM

I guess I was ahead of my time when I said most of this crap in 2002 about GT3.

subego · Dec 22, 2009, 09:12 PM

Originally Posted by downinflames68

11. As soon as you stop turning, the front wheels snap TOTALLY STRAIGHT, INSTANTLY.

Doesn't every driving game do this unless you feather the stick?

imitchellg5 · Dec 23, 2009, 01:00 AM

Originally Posted by ajprice

Forza 3: If you do something on the lap like go off track (sometimes even a little bit), tap a wall, draft another car, or even have another car drafting you, the lap has a /!\ warning triangle next to it, and it doesn't count as a legal lap. There's no need to make the grass an ice rink, if you go on more grass than track, the lap doesn't count, end of story. If you cut the last corner to get a better launch for the next lap, it knows, and the next lap is invalid too. Its a good system and it works.

Forza 3 doesn't seem to make the lap invalid like 2 and 1 did... it doesn't add the time to the end of the lap.

ajprice · Dec 23, 2009, 05:48 AM

No it doesn't add time, it just marks the lap as a bad lap that won't count on leaderboards. I'm doing time trial stuff on FM3, and on my friends list the bad laps, even if they are faster, are placed below the slowest clean lap. I didn't like the FM2 system of adding penalty time if you go off.

Laminar · 11:52 AM

Did they mess up engine sounds too? Last time I played GTA4 they decided a Corvette Z06 should sound like a Civic with a hole in its muffler.

ajprice · Dec 23, 2009, 11:39 AM

There's only the Nissan 370Z in the demo, with standard or tuned versions. So if anybody has a 370Z and this demo, whats it like in comparison?!?!

imitchellg5 · Dec 24, 2009, 12:09 AM

Originally Posted by Laminar

Did they mess up engine sounds too? Last time I played GTA4 they decided a Corvette Z06 should sound like a Civic with a hole in its muffler.

I think Gran Turismo has always used a small sound set for engine noise and modified it a bit for each vehicle. Forza does the same thing, but it's not really noticeable except nearly every V6 sounds either like the Nissan VQ or NSX.

downinflames68 · Dec 24, 2009, 02:19 PM

Originally Posted by subego

Doesn't every driving game do this unless you feather the stick?

Possibly, but the cars in other games don't lose traction when doing so. This demo is complete ****. I just bought Grid last night for $17. Yeah, it is totally an arcade game and not a sim, but the graphics are good and it's actually FUN to drive. Oh yeah, and cars can actually go around a corner without understeering or magically having their ass end step outwards instantly. Forza needs to come to the PS3.

Stogieman · Dec 24, 2009, 06:44 PM

Originally Posted by downinflames68

Forza needs to come to the PS3.

No, you got that backwards. You need to come over to the 360. At least you'll have a bunch of MacNNers to play with online.

p.s. If you're looking for a fun driving game, I highly recommend Burnout Paradise. It's the bees knees.

imitchellg5 · Dec 25, 2009, 10:05 AM

Burnout Paradise has nothing to do with driving. The cars feel like a sled going down a street.

exca1ibur · Dec 25, 2009, 02:24 PM

Originally Posted by imitchellg5

Burnout Paradise has nothing to do with driving. The cars feel like a sled going down a street.

I agree. If anything Need For Speed: Shift would be a better choice. I enjoy GRID as well, I just wish you could mod and tweak the cars. I hate the demo, but I'm hoping it's just due to it being stripped down drastically. I hope...

imitchellg5 · Dec 25, 2009, 03:54 PM

I really enjoyed GRID, but after a while it got really repetitive. Still a great game though.

downinflames68 · Dec 27, 2009, 08:51 PM

If the 370Z really handled like it does in the game, 90% of the drivers would be dead. Cars do NOT handle like that.

They don't really handle like they do in GRID either, but at least that is fun.

Jawbone54 · Dec 28, 2009, 11:11 AM

I've only spent two days with it, but I'm in love with Forza 3. No license tests, custom soundtracks, and actual element of FUN...

So far, this game is worlds away from the Gran Turismo titles I've played (all of them).

downinflames68 · Dec 28, 2009, 01:31 PM

Try Grid. I've been having a BLAST with it. Really just a riot. GT can suck my nuts.

Jawbone54 · Dec 28, 2009, 02:06 PM

I might give it a shot, but I've got to work my way through Batman:AA, MW2, Forza 3, and finish up single-player in Uncharted 2 before I buy any more games at all. I'm usually the Burnout type as a casual racing fan; Forza 3 has been the exception, for sure.

downinflames68 · Dec 29, 2009, 01:27 PM

Batman looks pretty cool, but kinda... repetitive.

imitchellg5 · Dec 29, 2009, 06:50 PM

Originally Posted by Jawbone54

I might give it a shot, but I've got to work my way through Batman:AA, MW2, Forza 3, and finish up single-player in Uncharted 2 before I buy any more games at all. I'm usually the Burnout type as a casual racing fan; Forza 3 has been the exception, for sure.

I think you'd like Grid as well... the action is so awesome. I LOVE the touring cars; that's probably as close to driving a touring car as you can get without actually driving one (even more these days since everyone is dropping out of stuff like the BTCC).

jokell82 · Dec 30, 2009, 01:20 PM

Originally Posted by downinflames68

Batman looks pretty cool, but kinda... repetitive.

Trust me, it's not.

Jawbone54 · Dec 30, 2009, 02:17 PM

Originally Posted by downinflames68

Batman looks pretty cool, but kinda... repetitive.

Originally Posted by jokell82

Trust me, it's not.

Noooooooo, it's not. Fantastic game.

Originally Posted by imitchellg5

I think you'd like Grid as well... the action is so awesome. I LOVE the touring cars; that's probably as close to driving a touring car as you can get without actually driving one (even more these days since everyone is dropping out of stuff like the BTCC).

That's several recommendations I've received concerning Grid. I might give that one a rent first, but you guys definitely have me curious.

downinflames68 · Dec 30, 2009, 05:38 PM

Just buy it. You can get if for around $17 at gamestop. It's a GREAT game. Everything is a little "too fast" and the cars have "too much" grip (unrealistic), but that's what the game is about: Being too much. Everything is soooo polished, so sexy, so badass. I love this game.

Jawbone54 · Dec 31, 2009, 12:33 AM

I can do $17. It'll probably be a few weeks though. I'll come back to the thread and let you guys know how I like it.

downinflames68 · Dec 31, 2009, 03:10 PM

Let me know when you get it, we can race online. It's pretty ridiculous sometimes.

Jawbone54 · Dec 31, 2009, 06:14 PM

Definitely will.

ajprice · Jan 13, 2010, 05:15 PM

Gran Turismo 5 Delayed in Japan

The March release date for Japan isn't happening now. No new date has been given, but the hopeful ones are thinking it might be to get a worldwide release at a later date, instead of Japan first and then the rest. Well I suppose it gives more time to collect cars in the PSP game that will supposedly transfer to your GT5 garage, whenever the time is that we get the game.

So whats going to be first, GT5 or Forza 4? (or 5, or 6

)

imitchellg5 · Jan 14, 2010, 11:49 AM

They might as well give up on the project. Seriously. It's been delayed so much, and the demo is so embarrassing that there is no reason to keep disappointing the fans. Just give up.

The Final Dakar · Jan 14, 2010, 11:50 AM

Yeah, flushing all the money they invested on the project down the toilet is the smart move here.

sek929 · Jan 14, 2010, 02:51 PM

It's bizarre to see the undisputed king of Racing Sims get so thoroughly passed up by an Xbox exclusive up-start.

imitchellg5 · Jan 14, 2010, 02:52 PM

Well... now that it's delayed indefinitely, that's exactly what they've done anyway.

The Final Dakar · Jan 14, 2010, 02:56 PM

Originally Posted by imitchellg5

Well... now that it's delayed indefinitely, that's exactly what they've done anyway.

Uh, no. Delayed ≠ cancelled.

The Final Dakar · Jan 14, 2010, 02:58 PM

Originally Posted by sek929

It's bizarre to see the undisputed king of Racing Sims get so thoroughly passed up by an Xbox exclusive up-start.

I guarantee you this is the director's fault. You could feel his resistance to certain changes or improvements (such as damage). Not sure if he's a slave to making the thing insane eye-candy too. It would be amusing to find out this delay was because he felt the need to one-u some of F3s features.

sek929 · Jan 14, 2010, 03:02 PM

Lack of damage in a racing sim is retarded, in GT4 I was able to ride some walls at 200+ mph making lapping the whole pack several times quite easy.

subego · Jan 15, 2010, 12:09 AM

Wooo-hooo! Bumpercars!

I know I'm in the minority here, but I lurve going full-throttle into a hairpin and ricocheting off the cars that slow down to take it at a proper speed.

downinflames68 · Jan 15, 2010, 02:24 PM

Originally Posted by The Final Dakar

I guarantee you this is the director's fault. You could feel his resistance to certain changes or improvements (such as damage). Not sure if he's a slave to making the thing insane eye-candy too. It would be amusing to find out this delay was because he felt the need to one-u some of F3s features.

Like the god damn music?!?!?! The cheesy pathetic smooth jazz from the early 90s?