[The Final Dakar]

I posted this in the news thread, but I though it deserved it's own poll.

Lionhead: Pre-owned worse than PC piracy News - - Page 1 | Eurogamer.net

"For us it's probably a no-lose even with piracy as it is," shrugged West. "But, as I say, second-hand sales cost us more in the long-run than piracy these days."

He's referring to the monetary aspect, rather than moral, but even in this regard I believe his claim falls flat.

Here, I want to boil it down to it's essentials and ask this question of the forums: Excluding the morality aspect, how does purchasing a used game rank vs. pirating a game in terms of harm to the developer?

[andi*pandi]

I don't see how. By the time a used game is purchased, it's old. People who pay top dollar do so to be first in line.

This is akin to the auto industry saying buying a used car is killing the economy.

My kid just saved up his allowance for three months to afford a used copy of DS Pokemon black and white. A new copy would have been three more months. By then, I'm sure there's some other game the kids would be playing that he'd want.

Maybe the game industry needs to examine their pricing. Not to belittle all the cool work that goes into games, but I buy a ton more $10 apps than I do $50 console games.

[The Final Dakar]

Originally Posted by andi*pandi 

I don't see how. By the time a used game is purchased, it's old. People who pay top dollar do so to be first in line.

This is akin to the auto industry saying buying a used car is killing the economy.

You've hit the crux of my thoughts on its economic impact. Yeah, some people only buy used cars. But some people trade-in their used to cars to buy new cars. You take away that option and new car sales aren't going to skyrocket – people are just going to milk their cars longer.

Originally Posted by andi*pandi 

My kid just saved up his allowance for three months to afford a used copy of DS Pokemon black and white. A new copy would have been three more months. By then, I'm sure there's some other game the kids would be playing that he'd want.

Bingo. If he can't afford it... he just won't get it. (Hell, in three more months it might be $10 cheaper).

Originally Posted by andi*pandi 

Maybe the game industry needs to examine their pricing. Not to belittle all the cool work that goes into games, but I buy a ton more $10 apps than I do $50 console games.

There's a lot they need to examine, but you hit the right point for this article. The proof is out there, staring them in the face. The longer this gen has gone, the more I see games who's price is plummeting after launch. Pre-ordering is becoming a dumber and dumber option.

[The Final Dakar]

I see we have consensus.

It occurs to me that a lot of times gamers get accused of having entitlement issues, and I can now see that it's not just the gamers.

[-Q-]

I think this ties closely into the discussion about how the big development houses were looking at iOS and Android games as a threat rather than a new market/channel opportunity. There seems to be a lack of creative thinking from a business aspect that's pervasive in gaming.

If a game house makes quality products, used games can only help them by exposing someone to the quality of their product.

And while I typically don't like car analogies for software, the one here seems quite apt. Toyota, Honda, etc. don't mind the used car market and have even figured out how to make money with it (certified pre-owned systems) and the car dealers love it b/c that's where they make the bulk of their money. Game developers need to figure out similar creative solutions to the game market.

[The Final Dakar]

Originally Posted by -Q- 

I think this ties closely into the discussion about how the big development houses were looking at iOS and Android games as a threat rather than a new market/channel opportunity. There seems to be a lack of creative thinking from a business aspect that's pervasive in gaming.

Well, tying into the video games as art thread, I look at the industry as closely aligning to the movie industry. From that perspective, I can understand why some people don't want to vomit out Dinner for Schmucks or some Michael Bay tripe, but when you decide to take a higher road, you have to accept there are compromises. Everyone doesn't get to be Spielberg.

Originally Posted by -Q- 

If a game house makes quality products, used games can only help them by exposing someone to the quality of their product.

I very strongly believe used games are an opportunity at a day-one purchase for franchise sequels.

Originally Posted by -Q- 

And while I typically don't like car analogies for software, the one here seems quite apt. Toyota, Honda, etc. don't mind the used car market and have even figured out how to make money with it (certified pre-owned systems) and the car dealers love it b/c that's where they make the bulk of their money. Game developers need to figure out similar creative solutions to the game market.

Where I sympathize is I do feel GameStop takes advantage of situation and screws both sides. They make twice the margin on used games.

[exca1ibur]

Originally Posted by -Q- 

And while I typically don't like car analogies for software, the one here seems quite apt. Toyota, Honda, etc. don't mind the used car market and have even figured out how to make money with it (certified pre-owned systems) and the car dealers love it b/c that's where they make the bulk of their money. Game developers need to figure out similar creative solutions to the game market.

Sounds like basically what the Greatest Hit's are.

[The Final Dakar]

Originally Posted by exca1ibur 

Sounds like basically what the Greatest Hit's are.

What we need is something like the BMWs car lines. 700 series = $60 games... now where are the rest?

[exca1ibur]

My guess is they intended the downloadable stuff to fill that void. Obviously, we all kind of agree that doesn't really compare. The only thing I can see is if the developer themselves discount the games themselves at some point or some promo to combat Gamestop. Gamestop cleans up in that $30 range all day. I think I've bought maybe 3 games at launch in the last 2 years, because I don't feel most are worth it at $60. Mostly due the bad QC, and the focus to give a limited game and get nickel and dimed on DLC to get the complete experience. You have to update at times as soon as you put that game in for the first time, ON launch day. The more they charge the more I expect, I think that is fair.

[The Final Dakar]

Originally Posted by exca1ibur 

My guess is they intended the downloadable stuff to fill that void. Obviously, we all kind of agree that doesn't really compare.

Yeah, but XBLA is usually $15 or less ($20 are rare). Where are the $40 titles? And I mean new. No developer can tell me with a straight face that every disc game coming out today deserves that $60 price tag.

Originally Posted by exca1ibur 

The more they charge the more I expect, I think that is fair.

Yup.