[The Final Dakar]

I popped it MW2 this weekend and was once again astounded by how buttery smooth the framerate is. While I wouldn't trade Battlefield's 30 (or lower) fps for MW2s gameplay, we do have the next generation to look forward to. So the question to you future console buyers, is what would you rather see? Better framerate or higher resolution?

[Leonard]

Where's the 1080p at 60 fps?

[exca1ibur]

1080p/60

[Stogieman]

480p (stretched) at 120 fps

[The Final Dakar]

Originally Posted by Leonard 

Where's the 1080p at 60 fps?

Originally Posted by exca1ibur 

1080p/60

You guys not familiar with the concept of tradeoffs? Most games right now don't run at 60 fps and most of them aren't even 720p.

[Leonard]

Originally Posted by The Final Dakar 

You guys not familiar with the concept of tradeoffs? Most games right now don't run at 60 fps and most of them aren't even 720p.

Yeah, for the existing gen of consoles. For a new gen of consoles I expect a full 1080p at 60fps. If it can't do that they better go back to the drawing board.

[exca1ibur]

Originally Posted by Leonard 

Yeah, for the existing gen of consoles. For a new gen of consoles I expect a full 1080p at 60fps. If it can't do that they better go back to the drawing board.

Exactly. The question was for 'next' generation consoles. Current generation promised 1080p gaming, and we got it in a a handful of games that did it, and only one I know that did 1080p/60 (Gran Turismo 5). So for the next generation that is suppose to be more powerful I expect a baseline to step up and deliver.

[The Final Dakar]

Originally Posted by Leonard 

Yeah, for the existing gen of consoles. For a new gen of consoles I expect a full 1080p at 60fps. If it can't do that they better go back to the drawing board.

Originally Posted by exca1ibur 

Exactly. The question was for 'next' generation consoles. Current generation promised 1080p gaming, and we got it in a a handful of games that did it, and only one I know that did 1080p/60 (Gran Turismo 5). So for the next generation that is suppose to be more powerful I expect a baseline to step up and deliver.

You guys may be disappointed. Pricing is a bigger priority this time around. If the PS4 debuted at $600 again, you'd have a point. It's not going to.

[mattyb]

I'll buy the next gen no matter what the spec is, just to be sure that I retain my Mr. Average classification.

Doubt that I'll ever play a game again on PC.

[The Final Dakar]

Originally Posted by exca1ibur 

Current generation promised 1080p gaming, and we got it in a a handful of games that did it,

That's my point exactly. A lot of AAA titles weren't true 720p and even if they were, they weren't 60 fps. Hardware isn't going to take the same size leap this time round.

[exca1ibur]

Originally Posted by mattyb 

I'll buy the next gen no matter what the spec is, just to be sure that I retain my Mr. Average classification.

Doubt that I'll ever play a game again on PC.

I game on mine more than I did before. I've been running 1920x1600 max everything for YEARS... My PC will always have a mark, more so as they try to lock down these consoles.

My big concern is how this rumored 'anti-used' technology stuff pans out. I'm watching that REAL carefully, as that will be a make or brake for me and console gaming.

[exca1ibur]

Originally Posted by The Final Dakar 

That's my point exactly. A lot of AAA titles weren't true 720p and even if they were, they weren't 60 fps. Hardware isn't going to take the same size leap this time round.

The Next PlayStation is Called Orbis, Sources Say. Here are the Details.

Sony had stated the goal the next generation is to run games at 1080p native. The biggest lesson learned with the PS3 is bandwidth and ram. That was the weakest link, and some developers might say the custom architecture was another. All three links are being addressed.

Xbox 720 Codenamed 'Durango': 10 Other Video Game Console Codenames [SLIDESHOW]

Microsoft will be in the same ballpark, although I think it might be easier for them as their current architecture won't have to change as drastically.

I highly doubt the PS4 will be in the $600 range Blu-ray is all over the place now so drives are cheap, the hardware is no longer custom, etc.

Don't get me wrong I am not stating this as a fact, I'm just saying the possibility isn't as impossible as you think.

[The Final Dakar]

Originally Posted by exca1ibur 

The Next PlayStation is Called Orbis, Sources Say. Here are the Details.

Sony had stated the goal the next generation is to run games at 1080p native. The biggest lesson learned with the PS3 is bandwidth and ram. That was the weakest link, and some developers might say the custom architecture was another. All three links are being addressed.

Xbox 720 Codenamed 'Durango': 10 Other Video Game Console Codenames [SLIDESHOW]

Microsoft will be in the same ballpark, although I think it might be easier for them as their current architecture won't have to change as drastically.

I highly doubt the PS4 will be in the $600 range Blu-ray is all over the place now so drives are cheap, the hardware is no longer custom, etc.

Don't get me wrong I am not stating this as a fact, I'm just saying the possibility isn't as impossible as you think.

I don't think it's impossible, I think it's unlikely. And hardware isn't the only reason – Sure, MW2 runs at 60 fps – but when was the last time the engine got a real update? I applaud Polyphony for doing 1080p60 on the PS3 – they also worked on the game for like 6 years?

So I'm not ruling it out per se, but I wouldn't bet on the average game developer delivering, given what we've seen this gen. I mean I assume GTA IV and BF3 could probably run at 1080p60 on the new hardware – but what happens when Rockstar increases the size of the city, the density of people, cars, interiors, etc.? Or when BF3 has to render more than double the players and vehicles on each map?

[sek929]

I'll always take a smoother framerate over slightly improved visuals.

[The Final Dakar]

Originally Posted by sek929 

I'll always take a smoother framerate over slightly improved visuals.

That's the feeling I'm getting. My jaw dropped when I was watching MW2. I love BF3, but the contrast between the screen tearing, frame-rate drops and MW2 was amazing. (Try it)

It also doesn't hurt that both my tvs are 720p. But upscaling doesn't scare me, either.

[P]

Originally Posted by Leonard 

Yeah, for the existing gen of consoles. For a new gen of consoles I expect a full 1080p at 60fps. If it can't do that they better go back to the drawing board.

Current rumors claim that we're looking at something a lot like a 7770 with better memory bandwidth (eDRAM to hold the frame buffer/Z buffer to lighten the load of the main texture memory, but possibly combined with cheapo DDR3 memory). To get an idea where that would put us, let's take a look at a test with a shader-heavy game (less dependent on memory bandwidth):

AnandTech - AMD Radeon HD 7750 & Radeon HD 7770 GHz Edition Review: Evading The Price/Performance Curve

Doesn't even hit 30 fps at 1920*1200. It's going to be a little better on a console (1080 instead of 1200, and probably better optimized for that single GPU than a game that was launched long before the GCN arch) but it's not going to be 60 fps - at least not at very high quality. The other games in the suite are a little better, but none of them hit even 40 fps.

[Leonard]

Originally Posted by P 

Doesn't even hit 30 fps at 1920*1200. It's going to be a little better on a console (1080 instead of 1200, and probably better optimized for that single GPU than a game that was launched long before the GCN arch) but it's not going to be 60 fps - at least not at very high quality. The other games in the suite are a little better, but none of them hit even 40 fps.

My first question would be what the definition of "very high quality" graphics are? My guess would be most console games give us curretly medium quality graphics or stuff bordering on high. I doubt we get very high quality.

If they can get an average of 45fps, that's not bad, I'd probably accept 1080p at 45fps.

[P]

Originally Posted by Leonard 

My first question would be what the definition of "very high quality" graphics are? My guess would be most console games give us curretly medium quality graphics or stuff bordering on high. I doubt we get very high quality.

If they can get an average of 45fps, that's not bad, I'd probably accept 1080p at 45fps.

"Very High Quality" is a preset in the game, but the way the tests work is that if you can't hit that quality at that resolution, you're better off dropping the resolution down a notch first - or so the testers seem to think. Personally I tend to drop the AA, but that's because I'm mostly bandwidth limited rather than shader limited.

Dakar is right about pricing, though. The PS3 used a GPU that was slightly cut down version of the best nVidia had at the time (IIRC it had the same amount of shaders but nerfed memory bandwidth and clocks), and the Xbox 360 likewise used a derivative of ATi's best. This time they're both on tier 3 of the PC GPUs, and the rumored CPU is a variant of AMDs low-budget Atom competitor.

[The Final Dakar]

Thank god P is around to make me look smarter than I actually am.

[mattyb]

Originally Posted by The Final Dakar 

Thank god P is around to make me look smarter than I actually am.

Well, you do need the help.

[The Final Dakar]

Originally Posted by mattyb 

Well, you do need the help.

I bow to the scandinavian master race.

[Laminar]

Originally Posted by The Final Dakar 

It also doesn't hurt that both my tvs are 720p. But upscaling doesn't scare me, either.

Are you poor people?

[The Final Dakar]

Originally Posted by Laminar 

Are you poor people?

Nope, that's why I own HDTVs from before they got cheap and 1080p.

[Laminar]

[P]

Movie buffs in the US are the only people who get a real improvement from 1080p. 1080p24 finally gets rid of 3:2 pulldown, which is a much bigger improvement than the resolution boost - you need a very big display or sit very close to see an improvement in 1080p60 over 720p60. All the comparisons to show how great 1080p was were against 1080i, which is not a high bar - I'd rather take 576p than 1080i.

[The Final Dakar]

Originally Posted by Laminar 

You're retarded.

[mattyb]

You talking about the Obama - Biden poster Dakar?