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You are here: MacNN Forums > Enthusiast Zone > Gaming > Kinect on the XBOX One: The Commercial embodiment of 1984?

Kinect on the XBOX One: The Commercial embodiment of 1984?
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Games Meister
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May 23, 2013, 10:21 AM
 
Hyperbole, perhaps, but given its mandatory nature on the system it got me thinking. I haven't seen details yet, but in order for it to function, it has to listen to you at all times.

Then, I thought, with the TV passthrough it can likely log what you're watching while collecting info on keywords spoken and heart rate. Is MS going to use this to create its own Facebook like database of info to sell? (I say yes).

I haven't heard about privacy limitations yet, and they do allude to 'safeguards' for those wary about a live camera being trained on them 24 hours a day. But I wouldn't be surprised if it later comes out that this thing takes regular notes on certain audio/visual parameters then strips out personal info and sends it to Redmond (My guess is once a day).
     
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May 23, 2013, 10:49 AM
 
Good questions and concerns.

I wonder if there is a privacy option for the camera and microphone.

Hmmm. We almost don't need headset microphones now. Now we can swear at that idiot team member that runs in front of you and gets both of you killed with just the kinect mic.
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May 24, 2013, 10:16 AM
 
At this point I think MS is incompetent rather than evil. I'd be much more concerned if it had been controlled by Google.

Other than that, Nielsen seems to be ripe for some competition.
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May 24, 2013, 10:57 AM
 
Originally Posted by P View Post
At this point I think MS is incompetent rather than evil. I'd be much more concerned if it had been controlled by Google.
Or facebook.

I agree.

Also, the scenario described above would be HELLA illegal in a number of places.

Euroland tends to take this kind of stuff very seriously.
     
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May 24, 2013, 11:00 AM
 
Originally Posted by Spheric Harlot View Post
Euroland tends to take this kind of stuff very seriously.
Most of the applications I'm thinking of wouldn't apply in Euroland, so it mostly irrelevant. In the US any legal issues will be initially disarmed by the EULA you're going to have to accept to get online with the damn thing.
     
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May 24, 2013, 11:09 AM
 
I think it's attempt to solve the chicken vs egg problem for kinect enabled games.
     
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May 24, 2013, 11:18 AM
 
Originally Posted by The Final Dakar View Post
Most of the applications I'm thinking of wouldn't apply in Euroland, so it mostly irrelevant. In the US any legal issues will be initially disarmed by the EULA you're going to have to accept to get online with the damn thing.
No I don't think so. In the US, Congress would probably get after them for this, and in Canada we have the Privacy Commission (watchdog) which would get after them. Microsoft would probably be back-pedaling pretty fast, once those two got after them. I remember Google being under fire by the Privacy Commission in Canada for something and causing alot of bad press for Google.
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Clinically Insane
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May 24, 2013, 11:35 AM
 
Originally Posted by The Final Dakar View Post
Most of the applications I'm thinking of wouldn't apply in Euroland, so it mostly irrelevant. In the US any legal issues will be initially disarmed by the EULA you're going to have to accept to get online with the damn thing.
What sort of applications are you thinking of that wouldn't apply?

As you know, EULAs don't mean shit this side of the pond, but simply having something that collects data and profiles users IN THEIR OWN HOMES using video is going to be extremely heavily scrutinized, and triply so if the data is going to a company based outside of Europe, where none of our data protection laws apply.
     
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May 24, 2013, 11:38 AM
 
Originally Posted by Spheric Harlot View Post
What sort of applications are you thinking of that wouldn't apply?
MS likely doesn't have the media deals for doing the cable box crap through the XBOX (nor the connections to sell it). That's the main thrust of this thread.

Originally Posted by Spheric Harlot View Post
As you know, EULAs don't mean shit this side of the pond, but simply having something that collects data and profiles users IN THEIR OWN HOMES using video is going to be extremely heavily scrutinized, and triply so if the data is going to a company based outside of Europe, where none of our data protection laws apply.
Trust me, I look forward to that scrutiny.
     
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May 24, 2013, 12:25 PM
 
Originally Posted by The Final Dakar View Post
MS likely doesn't have the media deals for doing the cable box crap through the XBOX (nor the connections to sell it). That's the main thrust of this thread.
So Betteridge's Law applies?
     
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May 24, 2013, 12:31 PM
 
Originally Posted by Spheric Harlot View Post
So Betteridge's Law applies?
Oh, sure. If I was blogger, this def would be a hits piece. But its also an honest assessment of what I see as a worst case scenario. Seeing what google and facebook have done, and MS own admission that they want to be dominant in the living room space, I see as their possible endgame.

(Secondly, as a gamer, when given the choice between two consoles, the worse one looks, the easier and less prone to regret a decision becomes)
     
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May 24, 2013, 12:52 PM
 
Seriously tho, Spheric: The Xbox One can talk to you, will feature remote play | Polygon

In one scenario, Kinect used its facial recognition to scan a room full of people and note if there was someone in the room it didn't recognize. It then told the console owner that there is someone in the room it didn't recognize and asked the new person to identify themselves. Once the person said their name, Kinect welcomed them and saved their information to the console.
     
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May 24, 2013, 01:12 PM
 
     
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May 24, 2013, 01:19 PM
 
Originally Posted by Spheric Harlot View Post
As you know, EULAs don't mean shit this side of the pond, but simply having something that collects data and profiles users IN THEIR OWN HOMES using video is going to be extremely heavily scrutinized, and triply so if the data is going to a company based outside of Europe, where none of our data protection laws apply.
EULAs don't mean shit here either. Like I said, both the US and Canada would have privacy concerns. Dakar's just forgetting past issues that have come up as privacy concerns.

For example the US went after Apple and Google on that location cache that Apple keeps on the phone. EULA, or not issues will be brought up even in the US or Canada. We just react a little less quickly than Europe does.
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May 25, 2013, 02:07 PM
 
Originally Posted by The Final Dakar View Post
Hyperbole, perhaps, but given its mandatory nature on the system it got me thinking. I haven't seen details yet, but in order for it to function, it has to listen to you at all times.

Then, I thought, with the TV passthrough it can likely log what you're watching while collecting info on keywords spoken and heart rate. Is MS going to use this to create its own Facebook like database of info to sell? (I say yes).

I haven't heard about privacy limitations yet, and they do allude to 'safeguards' for those wary about a live camera being trained on them 24 hours a day. But I wouldn't be surprised if it later comes out that this thing takes regular notes on certain audio/visual parameters then strips out personal info and sends it to Redmond (My guess is once a day).
Originally Posted by The Final Dakar View Post
Most of the applications I'm thinking of wouldn't apply in Euroland, so it mostly irrelevant. In the US any legal issues will be initially disarmed by the EULA you're going to have to accept to get online with the damn thing.
Why wouldn't logging what you're saying, or keystrokes or heart rate not apply in Euroland? Facebook does the same things with US data that it does with Euro data IIUC.
     
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May 27, 2013, 03:36 PM
 
Just to be contrary, lack of privacy isn't all bad.

What if the touted "pulse from a baby's skin" spins off to where it could call 911 if you're having a heart attack?

Or at least, if your heart rate gets too high, show you pictures of kittens?
     
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May 27, 2013, 03:41 PM
 
Originally Posted by subego View Post
Just to be contrary, lack of privacy isn't all bad.

What if the touted "pulse from a baby's skin" spins off to where it could call 911 if you're having a heart attack?

Or at least, if your heart rate gets too high, show you pictures of kittens?
If MS would like to market a device that saves my life, let them.
     
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May 27, 2013, 05:25 PM
 
I'd take being shown kittens.
     
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May 28, 2013, 10:28 AM
 
Confused about where to post this, must be my age.

German regulator has Xbox One privacy concerns- The Inquirer
     
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Jul 16, 2013, 12:53 PM
 
Will the NSA use the Xbox One to spy on your family? | The Verge

The company told us that the Kinect's cameras and microphones aren't actually recording or transmitting any audio or video data back to Microsoft's servers without the user's explicit consent, and all ambiently collected data is anonymized.
"We aren't using Kinect to snoop on anybody at all," said Microsoft's Phil Harrison.

But would Microsoft be willing to help the government snoop? That's a good question. Last week, a report in The Guardian alleged that Microsoft gave government agencies access to private Skype video and audio calls, perhaps even going so far as to integrate Skype into the NSA's controversial PRISM surveillance system.
Scott Greenwood, a civil rights lawyer, agrees. "It would be a flat violation of what little remains of the Fourth Amendment if the government had the ability to spy on you inside your house via a game system to which it had a backdoor," he told us. "If you're going to be invading someone's personal space, their residential space, you're going to need a warrant unless certain exceptions are met ... and I think having an always-on video camera would never, ever be able to meet the Fourth Amendment standard," he said.

But neither Greenwood nor Patel seemed to think the idea was completely far-fetched. "What we don’t know is whether there are either secret executive orders or regulations that would permit this to happen," said Greenwood, referring to PRISM and other forms of secret data collection greenlit by the FISA court system.
     
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Jul 20, 2013, 06:04 PM
 
Originally Posted by subego View Post
Just to be contrary, lack of privacy isn't all bad.

What if the touted "pulse from a baby's skin" spins off to where it could call 911 if you're having a heart attack?

Or at least, if your heart rate gets too high, show you pictures of kittens?
Ahh... last March. Such innocent times.
     
   
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