[Cipher13]

http://www.sharkygames.com/hardware/...be/index.shtml

Read. Is good. I want one.
Kick PS2's ass.
Wish it had DVD video playback though...

Cipher13

[Misha]

I see no mention of real-world performance figures, pledged developer support, estimated price, broadband support, etc... seems like the guy just had fun re-writing Nintendo's GameCube page and offering up a bit of commentary.

I have a 2 minute video clip of the GameCube demo Nintendo showed developers not too long ago. The graphics and framerates look identical to that of the PS2, which in turn looks pretty close (going by current games) to the Dreamcast. I think consoles have reached a point where performance really isn't that discernable any more, it's all about the games.

[ShortcutToMoncton]

Agreed, Misha....I'd say TV's are probably the biggest limitation now, having such low resolutions and overall poor quality when compared to a good monitor....

If it was up to me, I'd buy the PS2 just for the extra DVD playback...hey, it saves buying a DVD player or hooking the computer up.....

greg

------------------
Though the day's been
really long
I still feel I'm close to
nowhere....

[tpitts1]

How good can the DVD be on the PS2 compared to a fully functional DVD player. The person buying the PS2 for DVD playback could buy the Gamecube for HALF(www.ign.com) the price and put the $150 towards a fully functional DVD player. Regarding the other posts, something worth mentioning is the Gamecube's ease of development compared to the PS2. From what I have read so far, I believe that developers are much more pleased with the ease of development for the GameCube, especially considering how Nintendo botched that for N64. What it really comes down to is what games is one looking at playing. I think the overall quality of games coming from Nintendo and 2nd party developers is higher than that coming from Sony and its 2nd party developers. The Imagine Games Network site is a great site for reading about many aspects of all the current and future systems. I did not particularly like the one Cypher13 posted. What do you think of the 24 megs of 1T-SRAM on the GC? Much faster and more expensive than conventional DRAM, and also the largest amount of SRAM ever brought to a consumer product.

[seventray]

I have to disagree with Misha on this one. GameCube is going to be the greatest console of the new generation. If you are concerned about "real-world performance figures, pledged developer support, estimated price, broadband support, etc." take a look at http://cube.ign.com/hardware.html - this will answer nearly all of your questions. Then tell me if Playstation2 looks better. Sony just hypes up Playstation when there is no way it can push the polygons it claims. Plus, developer support is overwhelming when you must consider that GameCube is a year from release. If you are interested in DVD playback, then wait a few months after the release and there will be a company adding DVD playback to the GameCube. The reason there is no DVD playback is because Nintendo, unlike Sony, is only concerned about games and gaming. If you want to watch movies buy Playstation2, if you want to play games buy GameCube.

I can't wait for Saffire's Tactical First-Person Shooter to be confirmed and released for GameCube. It was previously thought that it would be developed for N64, but it is believed that it will be for GameCube since Saffire has released little to nothing about the game. It will be much better than R6 or RS. Check it out at http://ign64.ign.com/news/16971.html

[mac freak]

I'll definetely end up with a GameCube...

The PS2 has no advatages, aside from the fact that it has already been released.

Not to mention that it is a cube with a 400MHz+ PowerPC processor and an ATi video card... sound familiar to anyone?

And all the development so far has been done on Macs, and that will undoubtedly continue.

------------------
Be Happy.

[Ruddigger]

Bah, why does everyone always have to choose one system? I'm getting a PS2, because my playstation broke, and I can play my old games on the PS2. Gamecube look cool, and uses a G3-based chip, so I'll get one of those too. I always liked Nintendo, (that is until the N64.) I still have my original NES as a mater of fact...

Dreamcast weill probably flop once the PS2 and Gamecube have been out for a year, (that's just my opinion, sorry of you have a Dreamcast.)

Oh, and tpitts, is pitts your last name?

-Ruddigger

[This message has been edited by Ruddigger (edited 12-03-2000).]

[Adam Silver]

I'm getting a PS2 as soon as the price is lowered to $200 or Final Fantasy X is released (whichever comes first).

It's the software, not the hardware that makes the console, and currently there aren't many RPG's for anything other than PlayStation.

If SquareSoft (and other RPG developers) starts supporting other platforms, I may buy a non-Sony console. But until then, only PS2 is in my future.

And Cipher, Matsushita (Panasonic, Technics) will release a GAMECUBE with DVD video playback shortly after Nintendo releases the game-only GAMECUBE.

[$catman]

Here's all I have to say: N64 was such an incredible dissapointment. Playstation, with inferior hardware, was, 100000X better than N64 because it didnt market its games as kiddie games. OOOO POKEMON!

ARgh

The Gamecube can't even play DVDs, and it uses stupid little disks. I hope nintendo goes belly up.

As for Sony, congrats, you've got my money once you ship it here. A game system, a FULLY FUNCTIONED DVD PLAYER (pointing that out to whomever said it wasnt), all in one. Cool.

Ca$h

[This message has been edited by Misha (edited 12-03-2000).]

[tpitts1]

Hey Ruddigger, my last name is Pitts.

As for a fully functional DVD player goes. I hate to say it, but the PS2 does not have the same functionality as a DVD player sold by Sony for $300. If all you want is playback and a few options, then PS2 is your best bet.

[tpitts1]

seventray, I see you know where the best game site is at!!!! IGN, Baby!!

[seventray]

Thats right, IGN is THE console gaming site.

As for $catman - I don't know about you but I have always gone for quality over quantity. The GameCube is simply superior and after its release, the "Playstation has more games" argument won't even be a factor. Quality is the issue - thats why I use Macintosh machines and buy Nintendo gaming consoles.

[tpitts1]

It's interesting someone mentioned Square and FF. On IGN there was a survey link to Square where they asked what console would one most want them to develop for. Interesting results, check them out.
http://cube.ign.com/news/27743.html


BTW, voting has been closed on that poll, but the results are worth taking a look at.

[Adam Silver]

I don't have much faith in Internet polls. They aren't scientific. It looks like a bunch of die hard Nintendo and Sega groupies bombarded Square Europe's web site.

Besides, at this very moment Final Fantasy X is a PS2 exclusive. (Final Fantasy XI, however, will be released for PS2, Windows, probably Xbox, and possibly Mac.)

For the record, I saw that poll when it first appeared and voted for PlayStation 2.

[tpitts1]

I could tell the poll was biased, but it is interesting that Square did such a poll. I know how well Nintendo keeps secrets(they are very similar to Apple in more ways than one!). It will be interesting to find out if Square is secretly developing for GC. I am hoping by E3 next year that all the developers will come out of the woodwork

[Adam Silver]

I'm under the impression that the hate between Nintendo and SquareSoft is so great that it will be years (if ever) before SquareSoft starts developing for a Nintendo console again. The fact that SquareSoft is developing for Bandai's WonderSwan Color portable (competition to GameBoy in Japan with 8% marketshare) more or less confirms this.

Of course, I could be wrong.

[mac freak]

The only recent game from SquareSoft for nintendo I can remember is Super Mario RPG for the SNES. There was just something about that game... some touch, some little thing... I don't know what it was, but I liked it. Might have been all the easter eggs and little hidden tricks. But I honestly don't know

And wasn't there supposed to me a Mario RPG 2 for the N64? What ever happened to that? I had heard something about a "Paper Mario" that might be the same thing... anyone know?

Anyway, I hope Nintendo can climb out of the hole it has dug for itself!

------------------
Be Happy.

[Adam Silver]

Paper Mario is Super Mario RPG 2. Don't expect it to have that special something that Super Mario RPG had; SquareSoft had nothing to do with the sequel. It's a Nintendo-only effort.

[Cipher13]

Whats that supposed to mean? Nintendo and Rareware are the best games creators on the planet... full stop.
They have a midas touch... and even though some of the games may seem childish... they still never cease to amaze.

Cipher13

[Misha]

I'd have to say EA, esp. EASports, makes better games, Cipher.

[Adam Silver]

Cipher, what I meant is that since the people who worked on Super Mario RPG (SquareSoft) had nothing to do with Paper Mario, you can't expect it to be quite the same as Super Mario RPG.

Also, Intelligent Systems developed Paper Mario, not Rareware.

[Ruddigger]

tpitts, my last name is Pitts too

-Ruddigger

[Cipher13]

Originally posted by Adam Silver:
Cipher, what I meant is that since the people who worked on Super Mario RPG (SquareSoft) had nothing to do with Paper Mario, you can't expect it to be quite the same as Super Mario RPG.

Also, Intelligent Systems developed Paper Mario, not Rareware.

I didn't say anything about Rareware developing Paper Mario, whatever the hell that is.
I don't think Mario RPG was ever released over here. Oh well, SM64 was probably better anyway.

Originally posted by Misha:
I'd have to say EA, esp. EASports, makes better games, Cipher.

No disrespect meant, but... not a chance in hell (in my oh-so humble opinion).
So many revolutionary games have been developed by those two (Nin/Rare), and those which are among the best games of all time.
I mean, look what the Donkey Kong Country series did with the SNES - those games were uncanny for that legend of a 16-bit system.
Look at The Legend Of Zelda - Ocarina Of Time... IMO one of the best games EVER, if not THE best game ever... and all on that cartridge. Imagine what they'd be able to do with a CD or now a DVD... absolutely incredible.
Goldeneye - the best strategy/shoot 'em up game of its time.
Perfect Dark - they say you can't improve on perfection - well, they did. A lot.
The only games that come close to being able to consider thinking about comparing with the likes of the aforementioned are Deus Ex and perhaps Unreal Tournament...
Noow don't make me go into the rest of their brilliant games like DK64 and all their previous achievements, such as Killer Instinct (SNES - that game, and Cannon Fodder, gave me RSI... or "Nintendo Thumb". Sixteen hours straight Cannon Fodder will do that...).
But anyway... you see what I'm getting at.
Just wait for the GameCube.
Zelda on the GameCube will be the most incredible thing you have ever seen.
EDIT: Speaking of revolutionary games, how in hell could I forget the most revolutionary games of all time: Mario 64, and the original Super Mario Bros...

Cipher13

[This message has been edited by Cipher13 (edited 12-04-2000).]

[This message has been edited by Cipher13 (edited 12-04-2000).]

[tpitts1]

Somebody stop me!!(see above) Don't forget that little known game from Rare, very addicting....Blast Corps.

If there was any experience that just blew my mind, it was when I saw a videotape sent out by Nintendo...enclosed: footage of SM64. One can say kiddy game all they want, but it was at that moment I knew I would get the N64 the moment it hit the shelves.

I wonder how many execs at Sony's console division would sell their souls to have someone like Shigeru Miyamoto working for them.

He is the best. Ever.

[austeros]

can you imagine zelda on the new system.... cooooollll

[$catman]

Id have to say I didnt find the graphics that impressive.... looked like Mario 64 witha few extra polygons.

Anyway, about Perfect Dark.... ok... I gotta stop you on that. That game was HORRID. The weapons, were REALLY REALLY cool.

The levels stank, they textures were horrible, and multiplayer is INCREDIBLY horrible. I cannot think of a worse deathmatch than that game.... it gets like 5 frames per second, and the resolution is like a gameboy! BLECH!

Ca$h

[Stogieman]

For those of you who haven't had the chance to see the Game Cube in action, click on the following links below.

The big movie reel - This 17 meg .mov shows small clips to following games:
* Zelda Gamecube
* Wave Race Gamecube
* Star Wars Rogue Squadron Gamecube
* Luigi's Mansion
* Meowth's Party
* Metroid Gamecube
* Brief Joanna Dark render

Star Wars - Rogue Squardon - This 19 meg .mov shows your x-wing doing battle over the Death Star. The game is only 25% complete and looks almost like it's straight from the movie.

I'm going to wait until the PS2 becomes a little cheaper before I get one. But from what I've played so far on the system I'm a little disapointed. I thought the PS2 would blow the Dreamcast out of the water in graphics But I found the graphics are not that much better than the Dreamcast. I know these are first generation games and developers are still learning to program for the PS2. I guess all of Sony's hype made me expect a little too much. I'm still going to buy one though and for 3 reasons only:
1. Metal Gear Solid 2 - Sons of Liberty
2. Gran Tourismo for PS2 (is it still called GT 2000?)
3. Twisted Metal - Black

Cipher is right though, Nintendo/Rare do make the best games. Rare's games is the only reason I've kept my N64 for so long. I don't know how many hours I've wasted playing Blast Corps, GoldenEye, Banjo Kazooie and DK Country. I can't wait to play Banjo Tooie and Rare's next game, that foul mouthed Conquer Squirrel.



[This message has been edited by Stogieman (edited 12-05-2000).]

[Stogieman]

Whoa Ca$h! What happened? Just before I made my last post, you were a junior member with only 35 posts. I come back to this thread a few minutes later and now your addicted to MacNN with 10003! That's some serious posting in such a short time.

[Cipher13]

Shiguru Miyamoto is beyond the status of "legendary"... really. He is inexplicably fu**ing brilliant.
Ca$h - get a 64, get Perfect Dark, and play the game!
Its absolutely incredible!
What you're talking about with the framerates, I know, but that only happens on 4 player multi with 8 bots, and explosions everywhere - no other time.
That is THE BEST shoot 'em up/strategy game EVER. Full stop.
Go play your Metal Gear Solid sh!t

Cipher13

[rupee68]

I have played it. I think its horrible. It has a quasi plot, lame levels, horrible textures, and cool weapons. THATS IT. You can't even really run or jump!

If I had a PD cartridge I'd run it over with my car.

Ca$h

[Ruddigger]

Wha-Oh, are cipher and Ca$h finally disagreeing on something?

-Ruddigger

[Cipher13]

You don't NEED to be able to jump! And you can run... play the game for a while...
I dunno what the thing is with y'all thinking we agree on everything - I mean remember the religion thread? The 'women' thread?
And so on...

Cipher13

It is really funny to me that they didnt mention it was a G3 processor.
Ignorance is bliss

[Cipher13]

Are you assuming we were ignorant of that fact?
Quite the opposite... it is so widely know it needs not be said
Check for my thread in the Lounge a while ago... all the Nintendo/Apple similarities...
Cube, colours, ATi graphics, G3 procs, and so on.

Cipher13

I think cpu101 was referring to the article. The thread is not about you - remember?

[Cipher13]

Yeah sorry. Was off my head that night. Won't say why

Cipher13

[Jsnuff1]

what do you guys think about micro$ofts gaming cousel, you think that will be anygood?

The Game Cube does not use a G3. It uses a custom PowerPC developed by IBM specifically for the Game Cube. The ATI chip is different too; it is much more than just a graphics chip (basically it's most of the rest of the system, including a ton of embedded DRAM).

So please don't run around saying the GameCube is ultra-similar to the PowerMac G4 Cube. It's not. It has few if any components in common with any Mac. The main point of similarity is that it happens to use the PowerPC instruction set and is shaped like a cube.

[Cipher13]

Put it this way: it has more in common than any other games console out there, no?
The Gekko proc it uses is a PPC750 spawn. The graphics chipset is made by the same vendor (well, ArtX).
You really think they have nothing in common?

Cipher13

[tpitts1]

Tim S. what did you mean by "a ton of embedded DRAM?"

SRAM maybe, the Gamecube will have 43MB's of total RAM,
of that :

40MB's of system RAM of which 24MB's is 1T-SRAM and 16MB's DRAM

3MB's of embedded 1T-SRAM on the graphics chip "Flipper"

As I said in an earlier post, this will be the largest amount of SRAM ever brought to a consumer product.

Translation: much faster, and more expensive. But we don't have to worry about this, b/c we don't have to pay for the DVD player.

Anytime someone's facts get fuzzy, or that weak moment when one thinks the PS2 will be better, head on over to:
http://cube.ign.com

for some smelling salts. BTW their PS2 site is good too, but its not GC.

[tpitts1]

HOW!

[This message has been edited by tpitts1 (edited 12-09-2000).]

[tpitts1]

That's the first time it has happened (triple posts)

[This message has been edited by tpitts1 (edited 12-09-2000).]

[Ruddigger]

Wow, triple post! Racking up those stars...


------------------
-Ruddigger
------------------
Have you had your
gigaflop today?

[poocat]

perfect dark is one of the best console games ever. so many options. co-op? incredible. missions? damn good. multi? fun as hell, w/ or w/o three other people. great game, no questions. a wonderful follow-up to one of the most popular console games ever.
and, before people forget... mario kart has provided more hours of fun w/ four NON-GAMERS than any other game ever, while still providing entertainment to those who have played it a million times. you've got to give nintendo something for that...

all that said, though, ffx is going to make me find a ps2 to 'borrow' for a month.
you know how it goes.

poocat.

[Cipher13]

Agreed, MarioKart is awesome.
I even have the Super Nintendo version of that...
Seriously one of the best games ever created, and most certainly one of the most underrated.

Cipher13

I had to agree with cipher13 in that Perfect Dark is probably the best console game ever made. Nothing on Playstation can compare to the replayability of most N64 games (ie Mario Tennis, Mario Party 1&2, PD, Goldeneye etc. etc.) It all comes down to multiplayer games for myself as the best part about the N64 is the ability for 4 of my buddies to get together and kill 4 or 5 hours.
As an owner of both a PS and N64, I can honestly say that PS has more RPGs but quality is more important than quantity as Zelda is by far the RPG winner for any console. So what if the graphics aren't better, as far as I'm concerned there is far more to an RPG than graphics alone.
And as for the chip in the new Cube...Does anyone remeber the Genesis and the chip it was based on?
That's right a Motorola 68000.....

I had to agree with cipher13 in that Perfect Dark is probably the best console game ever made. Nothing on Playstation can compare to the replayability of most N64 games (ie Mario Tennis, Mario Party 1&2, PD, Goldeneye etc. etc.) It all comes down to multiplayer games for myself as the best part about the N64 is the ability for 4 of my buddies to get together and kill 4 or 5 hours.
As an owner of both a PS and N64, I can honestly say that PS has more RPGs but quality is more important than quantity as Zelda is by far the RPG winner for any console. So what if the graphics aren't better, as far as I'm concerned there is far more to an RPG than graphics alone.
And as for the chip in the new Cube...Does anyone remeber the Genesis and the chip it was based on?
That's right a Motorola 68000.....

[tpitts1]

So what if the graphics aren't better, as far as I'm concerned there is far more to an RPG than graphics alone.

But the graphics ARE better on the N64, FMV does NOT count in my book!! You watch it once, then what?

PS developers love to make games with s**t for content, and tons of cool looking FMV.

Thats one big reason the big N is trying to steer developers away from using the GC for FMV, like Silicon Knights is doing with an upcoming game for GC. I would tend to believe that FMV will be in all games b/c of the sheer amount of space offered (1.5GB), but in N developed games it will be a much smaller ratio.

[This message has been edited by tpitts1 (edited 12-09-2000).]

[austeros]

i dont think games with alot of FMV are even in the same league as the others. Zelda is the best game ever. I still play zelda 3 on my imac every once and a while. But then there are games like Final Fantisy and Parasite Eve. These games are more like a virtual farytale. The only reason i purchased a psx at first was for ff7, and i have never been dissapointed. Personally, i like games that may not be the longest or the most well designed, but that i can sit back and enjoy... almost like being in a movie. I have always been a nintendo fan... i have owned every system that they have ever released. I am looking forward to the game cube, but i do think nintendo needs developers with heavy FMV support to win back some gamers.

rok

[tpitts1]

but i do think nintendo needs developers with heavy FMV support to win back some gamers.

True, you must feed the lions. Let's not forget either that most die hard PSX people will say that N64 is for kids, the big N must realize that all of their kids have(me) or are growing up. I will never abandon Mario, or DK, and I have enjoyed new franchises like Banjo, but Pokemon will never be played by me.

I have seen the seeds are being planted for more adult content, and this is good. Turok was the best thing before GoldenEye, and the new look of Conker is ruthless compared to what it was before.

I can't wait to see more of Metroid. I hope Retro doesn't mess it up. What I would give to have N or Rare working on that game.

Here's a theory, since N is so anal about keeping secrets, what if Retro putting up that page about Metroid development hiring is just a smoke screen? Does anyone remember the Datadyne publicity stunt Rare and N pulled off? if you dont check the archives at ign.